Football in Kilkenny whats the point?

adrian522

The bottom line here is that no one cares about football in Kilkenny, I certainly don't.

I, like may people would sooner put all my effort into making a junior B hurling team over senior inter county football. I think this is borne out by a load of players not showing up for the match. I think that for even a low level club hurling match in Kilkenny that would be unthinkable.

The unfortunate truth for football fans around the country who want to see Kilkenny get respectable results is that people in Kilkenny are just not interested in this sport.

Martin567

aidan24326 wrote: »

Bang away. There is nothing 'inane' about what I said. I merely said let's leave hurling out of it. This is about the Kilkenny footballers and why they continue to be so woefully bad.

I'm afraid my head has now gone right through that wall. The 'inane' part of your argument was plain to see in the second paragraph of your original post.

No-one is disputing the fact that Kilkenny are woefully bad at football. We're just annoyed at being singled out by those, like yourself, who refuse to accept that there are a dozen counties equally woefully bad at hurling. Once you accept that obvious fact, there is no need to single out Kilkenny any longer.

MrJoeSoap

Hammer Archer wrote: »

Ha. This thread was created almost a year to the day the previous thread on Kilkenny football was created. Amazingly, the last one got nearly 300 posts.

Funny how there were no threads started after the O'Byrne Shield game against Meath in January...

http://www.examiner.ie/breakingnews/sport/meath-beat-kilkenny-in-obyrne-shield-489494.html

Jimmy Iovine

lala88 wrote: »

Kilkenny playing Meath or Louth in hurling has nothing to do with this

Maybe not but the success we have found in hurling has clearly been at the expense of football. Maybe that's a good thing or a bad thing depending on your point of view.

Personally I have absolutely no interest in football. Likewise I've met guys from Louth, Westmeath and Meath who have even less of an interest in hurling.

They ask me why we put no effort into football. If I ask them the same about hurling they have no comeback.

I asked my dad about it there and, like me, he was embarrassed. He's into his 60s and he says he has never seen a decent Kilkenny football team, and his memory for these things is very sharp.

I hope that the county board are equally embarrassed by this result. Hopefully they do something to stop even further embarrassment in the next match.

The problem is when the kids get to 14/15. They are then dragged into development squads and whatnot. Invariably the best footballers are also the best hurlers. There are some fantastic footballers coming up through the ranks. Unfortunately when they reach a certain age they'll get a call to play county for the hurling team. No child in his right mind is going to turn down that opportunity.

There needs to be a better system in place to encourage the growth of underage teams that will eventually lead to an improvement with the senior team. That's not going to happen overnight but hopefully something will be done about it.

Hammer Archer

MrJoeSoap wrote: »

Funny how there were no threads started after the O'Byrne Shield game against Meath in January...

http://www.examiner.ie/breakingnews/sport/meath-beat-kilkenny-in-obyrne-shield-489494.html

Did you have to bring that up?
Any chance I could use the "It was a professional performance" line? Might look up some of the excuses Steve Staunton used after the San Marino game.

MrJoeSoap

Hammer Archer wrote: »

Did you have to bring that up?
Any chance I could use the "It was a professional performance" line? Might look up some of the excuses Steve Staunton used after the San Marino game.

How dare you sully the good name of Steve Staunton by mentioning him in the same line as that Meath performance?

Pighead

Kilkenny vice-chairman Tom Duggan not impressed with Louth. Thinks they should have went easy on them at the end of the match. Loser Talk!

“If we were playing them in hurling, we wouldn’t go to town on Louth as they did on us. Up to the 60th minute, they were still going for goals. Only for the effectiveness of our goalkeeper, we could’ve been down by an awful lot more.”

bruschi

adrian522 wrote: »

The bottom line here is that no one cares about football in Kilkenny, I certainly don't.

I, like may people would sooner put all my effort into making a junior B hurling team over senior inter county football. I think this is borne out by a load of players not showing up for the match. I think that for even a low level club hurling match in Kilkenny that would be unthinkable.

The unfortunate truth for football fans around the country who want to see Kilkenny get respectable results is that people in Kilkenny are just not interested in this sport.

that is perfectly reasonable.

now if only your county board would stop fielding teams just so the paperwork is put through and funding is still being sent to Kilkenny. Be interesting to see how much of an effort is made then if the funding is cut when no teams are being put out.

adrian522

I'm sure the funding is pretty limited to be fair, don't enter the championship, only the league, I haven't seen any numbers but I doubt it's any significant amount.

Edit: I'm sure the county board would be only too happy to stop fielding football teams, my understanding is that it is pressure from outside the county is the reason they still do and not anything about getting additional funding.

bcb1

I don't see why Kilkenny should put any more effort into football than they currently do. They are primarily a hurling county. They have limited resources/interest in playing football. They fulfill the fixtures and that is about as much as can be expected. I haven't heard any complaints from Kilkenny footballers about their treatment so they must be satisfied with what is happening or at least realise the position they are in. For good sake, in my own club the argument could be very easily made that we should become a dual club as there are the numbers tehre and it is our responsibility. It was tried a number of years ago. A pile of money was spent on gear for the school kids to play hurling, it lasted about 3 weeks. I really don't see how people have any right to tell Kilkenny how to run their house, it is their own business and they shoudl be let at it, no one here is taking any harm from it.

premierstone

Pighead wrote: »

Kilkenny vice-chairman Tom Duggan not impressed with Louth. Thinks they should have went easy on them at the end of the match. Loser Talk!

“If we were playing them in hurling, we wouldn’t go to town on Louth as they did on us. Up to the 60th minute, they were still going for goals. Only for the effectiveness of our goalkeeper, we could’ve been down by an awful lot more.”

Fcuk me that is patethic, do you think Coady would ease off in a hurling match if the roles were reverseed, like hell he would.

Just to those who suggested that if KK were helped more and had outside coaches etc, they would improve, dont agree at all the only way any county improves is if they want to and KK dont and thats fine it is their choice.

Hammer Archer

MrJoeSoap wrote: »

How dare you sully the good name of Steve Staunton by mentioning him in the same line as that Meath performance?

To be fair Kilkenny have higher population than San Marino :pac:

dastardly00

Why are so many people from other counties so interested in the Kilkenny football team?

premierstone

dastardly00 wrote: »

Why are so many people from other counties so interested in the Kilkenny football team?

Why are KK people so defensive on the subject, there is no other county that takes such regular hammerings without any sign of improvement, of course people will pass comment, just as they have passed comment on the fact that the KK hurling team is the greatest of all time, didnt hear you complaining about peoples interest in that. Cake and eat it comes to mind!

mooonpie

dastardly00 wrote: »

Why are so many people from other counties so interested in the Kilkenny football team?

Interest in weak footballers over weak hurlers?
While the Tier-4 hurling counties would get destroyed by Tier-1 counties, they are for the most part competitive within their tier. Kilkenny footballers aren't.

Interest specifically in Kilkenny football?
Because the hurlers are so good! There must be players in the county that can't and won't get a look in at senior level hurling, but could still give football a decent lash.

That and I guess everybody loves a good underdog story.

premierstone wrote: »

Why are KK people so defensive on the subject, there is no other county that takes such regular hammerings without any sign of improvement,

This is where hurling has to be mentioned in the argument though.
The reason there's no improvement is there's such a big gap to bridge to become competitive. If you've to make a choice at minor level or earlier, you're going to play the sport that gives you the most chance of success. Kilkenny footballers have no peers to compete against, at least not at senior grade.
Compare this to hurling where weaker counties can still aim to win against their peers. It may take the same time to reach the top tier as it'll take Kilkenny footballers, but they have a chance at success in the short-term.

premierstone wrote: »

of course people will pass comment, just as they have passed comment on the fact that the KK hurling team is the greatest of all time, didnt hear you complaining about peoples interest in that. Cake and eat it comes to mind!

In fairness ya don't hear people talking about the state of Roscommon or Mayo hurling after the footballers win provincial titles. There is a double standard at play

bcb1

I think the clarification should really be made here that this is u21 football. I would ask what would the chances be for, say Leitrim u21 hurlers, against Kilkenny hurlers? Or even against say Wexford u21 hurlers?

dastardly00

premierstone wrote: »

Why are KK people so defensive on the subject, there is no other county that takes such regular hammerings without any sign of improvement, of course people will pass comment.....

To be honest, I don't think the KK people on here are that defensive on the subject of our football team getting hammered. There is no disputing that they get absolutely hammered nearly every time they take to the field. I'm not going to argue with anyone that our county football team is very very poor.

But what tends to be an irritation is that alot of people seem to leap at the chance to make a comment in order to get a quick cheap shot in. Are people that envious of our success in hurling? If KK were a middle of a road hurling team, would this thread even exist? Would it be a topic of conversation with people from other counties? Perhaps those questions should have been in my opening post.

The core group of lads who regularly take to the field and play football for the county do so because they enjoy playing the sport. But, they like hurling way more than football. And so they put a junior B hurling match, or even a hurling training session before football. What's wrong with that? IMO hurling is a far more exciting sport than football. It's even more exciting than soccer and rugby. Why would you want to play other sports when you can play the sport that you love the most. It doesn't matter at all if you're not going to be the next Henry Shefflin or even get near the senior panel.

premierstone wrote: »

....... just as they have passed comment on the fact that the KK hurling team is the greatest of all time, didnt hear you complaining about peoples interest in that. Cake and eat it comes to mind!

That doesn't make sense at all. Firstly, why would KK people complain about other people passing comment about their success Secondly, there will always be more interest in, and comments made about successful teams than weak teams. Do the guys in the soccer forum chat about how bad Bradford City FC are doing in the N-Power League 2? Nope, they prefer to discuss how good Manchester City are doing this season.

super_furry

Listening to Off the Ball tonight and they claimed that the reason those 11 players didn't turn up was because there had been no training sessions orgainsed in the build-up to the game.

breffni666

bruschi wrote: »

could you propose what teams should be in a 'B' championship in football.

Or anyone else for that matter.

Ulster; Cavan, Fermanagh.
Leinster; Kilkenny, Carlow, Wicklow, Longford, Louth
Connaught; Leitrim, London, New York.
Munster; Clare, Waterford.
There is not a hope in hell of ANY of these counties winning anything of note in the near future so put them together in a championship. There are another 10 counties above them who will make league finals or provincial deciders but it would be 50/50 as to weather they would make a breakthrough and then there are the 10 or so at the top table every year or most years. They have the championship they deserve.

dastardly00

moonpie9588 wrote: »

Interest in weak footballers over weak hurlers?
While the Tier-4 hurling counties would get destroyed by Tier-1 counties, they are for the most part competitive within their tier. Kilkenny footballers aren't.

Interest specifically in Kilkenny football?
Because the hurlers are so good! There must be players in the county that can't and won't get a look in at senior level hurling, but could still give football a decent lash.

That and I guess everybody loves a good underdog story.

I was referring to the bolded bit above. You've basically answered my own question, in that a lot of people from other counties are only interested in the state of Kilkenny football because we are so successful at hurling.
But it doesn't matter to KK people if they aren't going to get a look in at senior level hurling, they still want to go outside and puck the ball around. That's just the way it is down here.

bruschi

breffni666 wrote: »

Ulster; Cavan, Fermanagh.
Leinster; Kilkenny, Carlow, Wicklow, Longford, Louth
Connaught; Leitrim, London, New York.
Munster; Clare, Waterford.
There is not a hope in hell of ANY of these counties winning anything of note in the near future so put them together in a championship. There are another 10 counties above them who will make league finals or provincial deciders but it would be 50/50 as to weather they would make a breakthrough and then there are the 10 or so at the top table every year or most years. They have the championship they deserve.

so you'd eliminate 3 teams who have won provincial championships in the last 20 years, one team who should have won one 2 years ago, and another team who got to an AI semi final 7 years ago. That realistically leaves Wicklow Carlow Longford and Waterford. Wicklow who drew with Armagh last year and had other decent results. Longford who should have beaten Kerry and beat Mayo 2 years ago.

What you are effectively proposing is another version of the failed Tommy Murphy cup thing. Those teams might never win theri championship, but at least they are able to aim for it and are able to compete. It wasnt long ago Carlow, Wicklow and Longford were beating Wexford in the championship. Only 15 years to be honest, and if a county like Wexford can improve to be competing, why cant the others aim to improve? Writing them off now would kill the game off.

Kilkenny are in a no win situation. The lower grades of hurling are even enough. But the lower grades of football are still relativley close to upper grades, and Kilkenny are way off on their own and have no real equals.

This thread is pretty much the exact same as the one last year too as well. Same arguments being made and same type of responses. If Kilkenny really wanted to improve, they easily could. There are capable footballers in the county, but there is no set up for them, and no organisation. That comes from the top.

breffni666

bruschi wrote: »

so you'd eliminate 3 teams who have won provincial championships in the last 20 years, one team who should have won one 2 years ago, and another team who got to an AI semi final 7 years ago. That realistically leaves Wicklow Carlow Longford and Waterford. Wicklow who drew with Armagh last year and had other decent results. Longford who should have beaten Kerry and beat Mayo 2 years ago.

What you are effectively proposing is another version of the failed Tommy Murphy cup thing. Those teams might never win theri championship, but at least they are able to aim for it and are able to compete. It wasnt long ago Carlow, Wicklow and Longford were beating Wexford in the championship. Only 15 years to be honest, and if a county like Wexford can improve to be competing, why cant the others aim to improve? Writing them off now would kill the game off.

Kilkenny are in a no win situation. The lower grades of hurling are even enough. But the lower grades of football are still relativley close to upper grades, and Kilkenny are way off on their own and have no real equals.

This thread is pretty much the exact same as the one last year too as well. Same arguments being made and same type of responses. If Kilkenny really wanted to improve, they easily could. There are capable footballers in the county, but there is no set up for them, and no organisation. That comes from the top.

Of the 3 provincial winners in last 20 years, how many did they win in the previous 20? 0, so 3 in 40+ does not make them world beaters. Waiting 2 generations for a day in the sun fails the players who try their best week in week out, year in year out without success. Take Cavan for example, heading for division 4 but always use the comeback that they are the most successful county in the Ulster Championship. The only people who remember successful Cavan sides come from my grandfathers generation. 1 Ulster title, which they shouldn't have won by the way, in nearly 50 years, is not the way forward for this county. If they were in a Junior or Intermediate type Championship then they would have reasonable expectations not the deluded ones they have now. The minors and u21s who have had recent success would have a good shot at a lower level championship before being exposed to the top level stuff. What is so wrong with taking stock realising that you are not the next big thing and start from there. More counties should do it and not pretend they are where they are not. The odd draw or defeat of one of the big guns does not beget consistency.

ShamoBuc

Hammer Archer wrote: »

Ha. This thread was created almost a year to the day the previous thread on Kilkenny football was created. Amazingly, the last one got nearly 300 posts.

I probably had half of them!! Think I'll stay out of this one though as it will no doubt go down the same route.

aidan24326

Martin567 wrote: »

I'm afraid my head has now gone right through that wall. The 'inane' part of your argument was plain to see in the second paragraph of your original post.

No-one is disputing the fact that Kilkenny are woefully bad at football. We're just annoyed at being singled out by those, like yourself, who refuse to accept that there are a dozen counties equally woefully bad at hurling. Once you accept that obvious fact, there is no need to single out Kilkenny any longer.

And you're saying my post was inane? :rolleyes:

Your argument basically centres around 'don't pick on Kilkenny footballers yes they're sh1te but there's lots of crap hurling teams too so there!'

We all know there's some hopeless hurling teams. This thread isn't about that though.

blowitupref

Kilkenny's last two U-21 championship games they have been hammered by Carlow,Louth that's like Kerry U-21 hurlers getting hammered by Kildare & Sligo.

MrJoeSoap

blowitupref wrote: »

Kilkenny's last two U-21 championship games they have been hammered by Carlow,Louth that's like Kerry U-21 hurlers getting hammered by Kildare & Sligo.

Yeah, the exact same. :rolleyes:

Martin567

aidan24326 wrote: »

And you're saying my post was inane? :rolleyes:

Your argument basically centres around 'don't pick on Kilkenny footballers yes they're sh1te but there's lots of crap hurling teams too so there!'

We all know there's some hopeless hurling teams. This thread isn't about that though.

It never is though, is it. As usual, it's imperative that something should be done about the one rubbish football team but the dozen or more rubbish hurling teams don't matter.

Your argument is beyond inane and your only reply when you have no answer is to say "this thread isn't about that".

Hammer Archer

aidan24326 wrote: »

And you're saying my post was inane? :rolleyes:

Your argument basically centres around 'don't pick on Kilkenny footballers yes they're sh1te but there's lots of crap hurling teams too so there!'

We all know there's some hopeless hurling teams. This thread isn't about that though.

Like Shamo predicted, this thread is going exactly the way the last one went.

I'm gonna make one point and then I'm gone. Surely it's a bit hypocritical of you to do what you're doing and single out the Kilkenny footballers yet not be equally annoyed at the inaction of 10 times as many county boards when it comes to hurling.
As for me, I couldn't care less about either. I'd love it if my own county board put more effort into hurling, but as far as other counties are concerned, if they feel like neglecting hurling in place of football or vice versa. that's entirely up to them. I don't see many Kilkenny or Tyrone fans complaining.

WesternZulu

moonpie9588 wrote: »

In fairness ya don't hear people talking about the state of Roscommon or Mayo hurling after the footballers win provincial titles. There is a double standard at play

Mayo, who have no Hurling pedigree or history, over the past 8-10 years have bypassed Roscommon, who have somewhat a hurling tradition in the south western part of the county, to be a the 2nd best team in Connacht (no great achievement I'll admit).

To be fair counties like Mayo do try and at least compete with Hurling and are a damn site better than they were 10/15/20 years ago at the sport.
Have KK improved during that time at Football, have they even tried to?

Mountainlad

breffni666 wrote: »

Ulster; Cavan, Fermanagh.
Leinster; Kilkenny, Carlow, Wicklow, Longford, Louth
Connaught; Leitrim, London, New York.
Munster; Clare, Waterford.
There is not a hope in hell of ANY of these counties winning anything of note in the near future so put them together in a championship. There are another 10 counties above them who will make league finals or provincial deciders but it would be 50/50 as to weather they would make a breakthrough and then there are the 10 or so at the top table every year or most years. They have the championship they deserve.

The players don't want it though. You say that they deserve better for training week in week out but that is not how they view it. They want to play the best. The counties will never challenge for a provincial title again if something like that happens.

The best sports players have ambitions to be the best. Therefore you will never get the best sports players to commit themselves to something that isn't the pinnacle of what they can aim for.

For the record, there has been some success in Waterford too. We made three (I think) Munster u21 football finals in thelast 12 years and won one, beating a talented Kerry side. The problem was players opting to play hurling or quit because the Senior setup was poor. That's the real problem, the setup and structures in place in the lesser counties. The only way to change the mindset is to improve the way players are coached, make it more enjoyable and give them some belief.

As a matter of interest, would you change the u21 football and minor championship structures as well? What would the point be in keeping them the same if you did that?

And some of those counties have had underage success. Longford contested a Minor final two years ago and an u21 final in Leinster last year.

Cavan won the Ulster U21 last year. Around the start to the middle of the last decade Fermanagh looked capable of winning an Ulster title. Just because they're not strong now doesn't mean that won't change. 2 or 3 years ago, Tipp would have been in that last as well and probably a few more.