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MOTO GP 2012

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  • Registered Users Posts: 183 ✭✭tinyjiney


    Yikert wrote: »
    did you see Hernandez at the weekend doing some lovely sideways drifts?
    Yeah..he did a lovely one on the starting grid....exit stage left......:D


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,444 ✭✭✭frostie500


    After a damp and dreary Jerez weekend the MotoGP paddock moves on to Estoril for the third round of the championship.

    With similar weather conditions expected in Portugal-wet on Friday and Saturday before a drier race day-there is the potential for some unusual results throughout the three classes.

    Lorenzo has won three times at Estoril and it was only last year that his perfect record in the premier class at the circuit ended. Dani Pedrosa ended Jorge’s run of form with a superbly judged victory from his compatriot. Having claimed second and third place finishes thus far in 2012 and he will be eager to claim his first victory since last year’s Japanese Grand Prix.
    The Estoril Circuit
    estoril.jpg
    The Estoril circuit sits close to the Atlantic coast and as a result poor weather has had a history of interrupting proceedings at the Iberian venue. Having hosted races since 2000 it is now all but certain that this year’s race will be the final event held at the track.

    The lap consists of a mixture of slow speed corners with a handful of fast corners. The most infamous of these is the final corner, the Parabolica.
    Having once again struggled in the dry race at Jerez Valentino Rossi is looking forward to Estoril where he will look to use a different set up in a bid to finally race closer to the front of the field.

    “I like the Estoril track, said Rossi. “It has some sections that are a bit tricky and the weather can be very unpredictable, but I like to race there.”[?]
    With numerous slow speed corners having a bike that is stable under heavy braking is crucial to have any chance of a strong result.

    From a tire perspective Estoril also provides challenges as explained by Clinton Howe, Dunlop’s operation manager for the Moto2 class.

    “Estoril is always a difficult circuit to determine tyre choice,” said the Englishman. “The track is made up of three different surfaces making it one of the most punishing because the tyres have to interact in different ways with surfaces ranging from smooth to abrasive.

    “The temperature range at the track also can make things difficult. If it’s cool you need a strong compound as there is a lot of abrasion on the right hand side of the tyre, but this becomes less important when the track surface is warmer, and a softer compound can be used.”

    Howe also went on to comment that, “The wind can be quite problematic, especially given its location near the coast as this can mean sand and dust gets blown on to the racing line, especially from the run off areas. The Atlantic seaboard means that the weather is quite quick to change and the weather we have experienced in the past has been very variable, making it difficult to come to solid conclusions for which compounds work best at this track.”


    Usual suspects start as favourites
    Casey Stoner is still suffering from arm pump but having claimed his first victory of the season he should be in high spirits as he heads to Portugal. The Australian spent a couple of days relaxing at home with his daughter in Switzerland and he seems ready for the challenges of Estoril.

    “We need to fix the arm pump issue as it's held us back a little,” admitted the reigning MotoGP champion. “It's disappointing we weren't able to fix it before Jerez. We've had some really good results at Estoril in the past; I got my first 250cc win there so I'll be aiming for another good result.”

    Stoner is still looking to claim his first premier class victory at the venue but having set the pace in Qatar before his arm pump woes surfaced there is little doubt that he will be there or thereabouts at the end of the race.

    Jorge Lorenzo leads the championship having claimed 45 points from the opening two races and Estoril track is a personal favorite of the Spaniard having claimed his first MotoGP victory at the venue.

    That win came in only his third premier class start after the then reigning 250cc champion started from pole and dominated proceedings. Since then he has evolved from an aggressive and somewhat crash prone rider into a mature and consistent racer that still has the same devastating turn of speed.

    Having availed of Stoner’s arm pump issues in Qatar to open the season with a victory Lorenzo was devastated to miss out on a home success last time out. He blamed his failure to win on a poor choice of tyres but it was clear how much it hurt him not to be able to claim a third consecutive Spanish GP victory.
    Can anyone spoil the big three’s party?

    With Jorge Lorenzo, Casey Stoner and Dani Pedrosa having monopolised the podium positions in the opening races another weekend of expected showers might provide the rest of the field with an opportunity to spring a surprising result this weekend.

    Following his stunning Spanish performance Cal Crutchlow is probably the most likely contender to stand on the rostrum with the leading riders all tipping him as a potential podium threat in the upcoming races.

    Jorge Lorenzo said, “The 1000cc gives more opportunities to riders like Cal who is more comfortable on it,” said Yamaha's 2010 champion. “Cal has done two great races.”

    Dani Pedrosa was also keen to emphasise just how many riders could potential upset the dominance of the leading trio.

    “Looking at the results, really Cal has made the biggest step [from last year],” said the Spaniard. “But still Andrea [Dovizioso] is also close and Nicky [Hayden] is doing well on the Ducati.”

    With Hayden having qualified on the front row of the grid in Jerez there were signs of encouragement for Ducati at the Spanish venue and if it is a wet race the speed of the Italian machine is beyond doubt.
    Can Valentino show signs of improvement?

    As ever the focal point of interest in the MotoGP paddock will be Valentino Rossi. The Italian superstar’s inability to perform aboard the Ducati has been well documented but his decisions in Jerez showed that he is now ready to adapt himself to the bike.

    Whereas for much of his first 18 months with the Bologna factory the nine times champion has done his best to tailor the bike to his demands it now seems that he is finally ready to accept that in order to get the best out of the bike he will have to change his style.

    One of the key areas for this is for Rossi to adjust the setup of his bike. In Jerez he admitted that after the catastrophic season opening Qatar Grand Prix he was ready to make wholesale changes to his preferred setup for the bike.

    At the Spanish race Rossi said that he went to the weekend looking to try the new bike setup, which is more in tune with Nicky Hayden’s settings, but the wet weather on Friday meant that he had to revert to a known setup.

    The settings used were similar to those that he used at the IRTA test in the winter. At that point Rossi seemed much happier that at any point before with Ducati but since then he has once again lost his way with the setup of the bike.

    Transitioning to the new setup will give us all a much firmer indication of how Rossi will fare this season. With Ducati set to bring their first upgrade to the French Grand Prix it will be interesting to see just how many changes they have made to the GP12.
    Moto2 set to see a tight battle

    After claiming the first intermediate class victory of his career Pol Espargaro the Spaniard is second in the Moto2 championship standings. His intelligent performance at Jerez saw the Pons rider get to the front at the crucial moment in case of rain.

    He clearly had a large element of luck with conditions worsening and hastening a red flag but with two podiums to start the season it is clear that his second season in the class will be much more competitive than last year.

    Armed with a Kalex chassis, the same as used by Stefan Bradl last year, Espargaro should be a force to be reckoned with over the course of the year but ever the field will be chasing Marc Marquez this weekend.

    The former 125cc world champion, and Moto2 vice champion last year, made his Grand Prix debut in Estoril four years ago and also claimed a fabulous victory in 2010. That race was a rain effected one and Marquez crashed on the sighting lap to the dummy grid before his team fixed the damage and got him back on track In time for the start.

    "We are highly motivated heading to Portugal,” commented Marquez. “We are in really good shape right now, after the win in Qatar and second place at Jerez. We will be very focused, because [Estoril] is a tricky track. We had a very positive test last year there and there will be some useful reference points to help me for the race. I am really looking forward to getting back on the bike."

    With Julian Simon having changed to a Suter chassis the Spaniard will look to get some useful information on his new mount this weekend with the former 125cc champion looking to finally show the form that made him a regular contender as a rookie two years ago.

    Estoril is one of his favored tracks with a front row starting spot as a rookie and a podium finish last year. Combined with a 125cc pole position he could spring a surprise following a difficult opening to the season.

    The Marc VDS riders showed promise at Jerez with Scott Redding finishing fourth and Mika Kallio, who claimed his first GP winner at Estoril, running off track in the closing stages.

    Redding needs to start finishing on the podium and winning races if he is to warrant his high standing amongst paddock veterans but his form over the course of the last year has left a lot to be desired.

    His opening to the year though clearly has left a lot to be desired with his team having openly looked to change chassis at various times. They have seemed to find their feet this year and Estoril should give a good indication of their potential for the rest of the season.
    Can Fenati continue his rich vein of form?

    Romano Fenati’s stunning start to his Grand Prix career has been one of the best stories of the season so far. The Italian is the reigning European 125cc champion but even so his adaptation to the rigours of life as a Grand Prix regular has been incredibly smooth.

    A close runner up finish to Maverick Vinales in Qatar and a dominant victory last time out in Jerez has made Fenati a genuine contender for the title.

    Vinales remains the title favourite and last year, in just his third GP, Estoril gave us the first true glimpse at his potential. Vinales raced through the 125cc pack from 11th on the grid to finish fourth before winning the first GP of his career at the following race in France.

    Vinales was caught out by the mixed conditions at Jerez but the Spaniard is now ready to move forward and get back to winning ways.

    “Estoril is a track that I like,” said Maverick when asked about his prospects this weekend. “We had a great result there last year and this time around we have to be at 100% to give our best. Leaving Jerez with a sixth place means that we have to change our mentality and maintain our motivation. The good thing about having two races back-to-back is that we can quickly forget about Jerez and a difficult race, moving onto the Portuguese round with much excitement."

    With Fenati having never raced at Estoril it will be a challenging weekend for the Italian but Vinales seems eager to show no mercy and get back to the top step of the rostrum.

    The Repsol Moto3 team is sure to be competitive again this weekend. They will be led again by Miguel Oliviera with the Portuguese rider racing in front of his home fans the long awaited podium for a Portuguese rider could come to an end this weekend.

    He dominated practice in the wet conditions last weekend and if rain does affect this race weekend he should be well placed to get to the front of the field. With Jerez pole sitter Alex Rins backing him up the Repsol squad should have another promising weekend.

    Alex Marquez will wild card again for the team and the Spanish youngster was very impressive at Jerez. Both Rins and Marquez showed their potential in Spain and both will be very eager to consolidate their positions as promising youngsters. Both riders are inexperienced at the track with Rins having competed at Estoril once.

    The KTM riders seemed to enjoy a top speed advantage in Spain with Sandro Cortese looking particularly impressive and the Austrian manufacturer will be keen to get to the top step of the podium following a brace of FTR victories to open the season.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,067 ✭✭✭funkey_monkey


    Is changing to Nicky's setup actually going to solve anything? Hayden has finished well down timewise on the top guys so his setup, whilst slightly better than Rossi's would seem to be, does not appear to be the answer (or even correct path) either.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,444 ✭✭✭frostie500


    Is changing to Nicky's setup actually going to solve anything? Hayden has finished well down timewise on the top guys so his setup, whilst slightly better than Rossi's would seem to be, does not appear to be the answer (or even correct path) either.

    Its more just Rossi admitting that he needs to adapt his style of riding to the bike rather than keep adapting the bike to him.

    He can brake as late as any other rider but the second he gets off the brake the bike starts to understeer. The solution to this is to hold onto the brake for longer into the corner entry but this makes him too slow at the apex and slower down the next straight.

    Hayden doesnt have this problem as much and Rossi is going to see if his setup makes a difference to him. At Jerez Rossi said something along the lines of Nickys bike having taller suspension and as a result a different rake so it might take some of the stability from the rear and put it over the front more. Incidently when Stoner was riding the bike he had to throttle on very early to try and spin the bike around the corner rather than take a "classic" approach to each corner


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,340 ✭✭✭Please Kill Me


    Anyone see qualifying today? FFS Spies got f**ked THREE TIMES by CRT bikes getting in his way when he was on a hot lap and they were on an in-lap??? :mad: Gobsh!tes. At least he qualified 5th in the end but I think it could/should have been higher.

    And Crutchlow snatching pole briefly near the end?? He's doing well, delighted for him.

    Looking forward to the race. It's gonna be a belter. :D


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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,426 ✭✭✭ZX7R


    Spies got in danis way also.swings and round abouts;)
    any news on edwards nasty crash his leg seem to get a big whack from the rear wheel of randys bike ,lorenzo throwing his toys out of the pram again did u see him storm through his pits after qualifing ha ha


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,340 ✭✭✭Please Kill Me


    ZX7R wrote: »
    Spies got in danis way also.swings and round abouts;)
    any news on edwards nasty crash his leg seem to get a big whack from the rear wheel of randys bike ,lorenzo throwing his toys out of the pram again did u see him storm through his pits after qualifing ha ha

    Actually, in fairness, Ben was off the racing line, Dani just came in a bit hot. Just a racing incident I think. (I could be wrong)

    Edwards - fractured collarbone I believe, the poor sod, he just has the worst luck! :(

    As for Jorge, yes he does the same every time he doesn't get his own way - just storms into the back of the garage. Feckin' baby!!! :pac:


  • Registered Users Posts: 183 ✭✭tinyjiney


    As for Jorge, yes he does the same every time he doesn't get his own way - just storms into the back of the garage. Feckin' baby!!! :pac:


    You spelled his name wrong...its Valentino........:p


    Quick question for the experts here...Are 2 strokes banned from motogp, or is it that the manufacturers just gave up on them....???


  • Registered Users Posts: 33,936 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    Reel your neck in about the GOAT, if you please :pac:

    2-strokes were still legal for at least the first couple of years of 990s, but nobody was racing them after the first year because they just couldn't compete with the 990s. I don't think they were actually banned until the 800cc rules were introduced. We're at 1000cc again from this year and imho it's producing much better racing, the 800 era was poor.

    Life ain't always empty.



  • Registered Users Posts: 33,936 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    Warm-up times
    http://www.motogp.com/en/Results+Statistics/2012/POR/MotoGP/WUP

    Stoner eight-tenths faster than anyone else :rolleyes: hope the fight for 2nd is interesting...
    If it wasn't for arm-pump I think this season would be a foregone conclusion already.
    Factory Ducatis 8th and 9th with Nicky one-hundredth faster, but still 1.5sec off :(

    Life ain't always empty.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 6,467 ✭✭✭h3000


    LIGHTNING wrote: »
    Poor race in my view, the last number of Moto GP races I have watched have been really boring :(

    I taught the first two rounds this year were quite good. Today's was a bit ****e though.

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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,621 ✭✭✭Infoanon


    LIGHTNING wrote: »
    Poor race in my view, the last number of Moto GP races I have watched have been really boring :(

    Qatar and Jerez where good moto gp races - Estoril not so good though the Moto 2 & Moto 3 races where awesome (again !)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,340 ✭✭✭Please Kill Me


    LIGHTNING wrote: »
    Poor race in my view, the last number of Moto GP races I have watched have been really boring :(
    h3000 wrote: »
    I taught the first two rounds this year were quite good. Today's was a bit ****e though.
    Infoanon wrote: »
    Qatar and Jerez where good moto gp races - Estoril not so good though...

    Agreed lads. VERY dull race. One to forget for sure. Roll on the next one please!


  • Registered Users Posts: 183 ✭✭tinyjiney


    Overall the racing (if you can call it that ) over the last couple of seasons has been boring generally...the only racing has been in the lower orders....I've said it before, the races should be longer, necessatating a pit stop for fuel / tyres or whatever...the money these guys are on for very little entertainment...IMO...;)

    Makes F1 looking more interesting..:eek::eek::eek:


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,467 ✭✭✭h3000


    To quote Colin Edwards from his Twitter
    One more question: (pain meds induced) Are all motoGP races as boring as that one today? Moto2 & 3 kicked ass!!!

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  • Registered Users Posts: 33,936 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    Fuel stops were the ruination of F1, turned it into a pit stop contest not a race. What a joke.

    Racing a MotoGP bike at the limit for 45 minutes is hard enough for these guys and they're both very highly skilled and very fit. If you want to watch endurance racing then go right ahead but just realise it will be at a much lower level.

    Life ain't always empty.



  • Registered Users Posts: 183 ✭✭tinyjiney


    ninja900 wrote: »
    .

    Racing a MotoGP bike at the limit for 45 minutes is hard enough for these guys and they're both very highly skilled and very fit. If you want to watch endurance racing then go right ahead but just realise it will be at a much lower level.


    What a stupid response...I watch all forms of two wheel action and to say that the riders outside of motogp are of a "lower level" is an insult to them.....45 mins on a gp bike ..theres not much difference nowadays with the superbikes...let Stoner and co. do it twice a meeting..His arm would explode.....:rolleyes:


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,906 ✭✭✭✭CJhaughey


    tinyjiney wrote: »
    What a stupid response...I watch all forms of two wheel action and to say that the riders outside of motogp are of a "lower level" is an insult to them.....45 mins on a gp bike ..theres not much difference nowadays with the superbikes...let Stoner and co. do it twice a meeting..His arm would explode.....:rolleyes:
    They are a lower level compared with the top 3 aliens.
    Stoner,Pedrosa and Lorenzo.
    No question about it, for all the skills that other riders have in WSBK BSB and the rest it takes a special kind of talent to ride a factory bike as fast as they do.
    You saw the slo-mo of Stoners RC213 coming out of the corner and chattering away and still CS could ride it until it slid.
    Thats talent and skill at a llevel just above all the other riders currently.
    Theres been plenty of others that tried to make the step up and couldn't for various reasons, Aoyama, Biaggi, Melandri in recent years are all quick riders and former champions in other series but just don't have the skillset that the very top riders need in MotoGP.
    Don't get me wrong, I haven't cheered for any rider since #58 but I cannot but help admire the way that Stoner just brutalises any bike that he gets on, and thats apparent more and more as time goes on and as you see the difficulties that other have with the Ducati's.


  • Registered Users Posts: 183 ✭✭tinyjiney


    How come the "best rider in the world" (Rossi) is way down the order...:confused:

    I admire all of them (includind the TT, road racers(real) even the guys in Mondello ..but to say they're of a poorer breed is a slap in the face i think...they ride just as hard, the bikes might not be up there but their hearts surely are...;)


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,467 ✭✭✭h3000


    tinyjiney wrote: »
    How come the "best rider in the world" (Rossi) is way down the order...:confused:

    Simple answer: He can't ride the Duke

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  • Registered Users Posts: 14,906 ✭✭✭✭CJhaughey


    tinyjiney wrote: »
    How come the "best rider in the world" (Rossi) is way down the order...:confused:

    I admire all of them (includind the TT, road racers(real) even the guys in Mondello ..but to say they're of a poorer breed is a slap in the face i think...they ride just as hard, the bikes might not be up there but their hearts surely are...;)
    He might have been a great rider but on the current machinery he hasn't a chance, he unlike CS seems unable to adapt his riding style to suit the machine.
    I think all the racers have huge talent, road guys especially but the simple fact is that MotoGP bikes are a huge challenge to ride fast and not everyone can ride them at race pace, look at the gap between the top 3 and the bottom 3.
    I am not questioning anyones heart or commitment but just being honest, the top guys are miles above anyone else.
    WSBK is like a version of Moto2 with gruntier engines and better electronics, MotoGP (not CRT) is another level entirely.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,340 ✭✭✭Please Kill Me


    tinyjiney wrote: »
    How come the "best rider in the world" (Rossi) is way down the order...:confused:

    Cos Ducati can't/won't get the bike set up right for him and his riding style.
    h3000 wrote: »
    Simple answer: He can't ride the Duke

    Yes and no. Each rider has their own style of riding a bike. Stoner is a throttle man, Hayden is a throttle man. Rossi is a brake man. The Ducati suits anybody who is a throttle man. Stoner powers out of corners (hence the mad slides) Rossi prefers to brake later and drop the bike deep into the corners, and the Duke can't do it. They helped it a little bit by jacking up the rear ever so slightly and so putting more weight on the front to plant it more, but it's not enough to give Vale the confidence he needs to feel in the bike in order to push harder.

    So he can't ride the bike because of the way the bike is, not because he can't ride a bike. He didn't get 9 world titles by fluke!!


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,467 ✭✭✭h3000



    So he can't ride the bike because of the way the bike is, not because he can't ride a bike. He didn't get 9 world titles by fluke!!

    Ah now I never said nor implied any lack of talent on his part. I'm a huge Vale fan and as you said he did not win all his titles by fluke. I takes a great rider, bike and team to do so. He just can't take to the Ducati's characteristics. That said I don't think we will ever see the Vale of his championship years even if he had a Honda or Yamaha.

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  • Registered Users Posts: 33,936 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    h3000 wrote: »
    He just can't take to the Ducati's characteristics.

    He still managed to qualify two tenths faster and race faster than Hayden though...

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/motogp/17985779

    Ducati planning new engine, probably with a V angle less than 90 degrees (like Honda) for better packaging

    Life ain't always empty.



  • Registered Users Posts: 33,936 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    tinyjiney wrote: »
    What a stupid response...

    :rolleyes:
    I watch all forms of two wheel action and to say that the riders outside of motogp are of a "lower level" is an insult to them.....45 mins on a gp bike ..theres not much difference nowadays with the superbikes...let Stoner and co. do it twice a meeting..His arm would explode.....:rolleyes:

    Like it or not, MotoGP is the highest level of the sport, look at the WSBK champions who couldn't cut it in GPs.

    Stoner wouldn't have the arm pump problem on a SBK - no carbon brakes.

    Life ain't always empty.



  • Registered Users Posts: 45 Yikert


    I cant add much that hasnt already been said but Im enjoying the argument. Stoner is on fire this year, the slo-mo shots are scary!!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,340 ✭✭✭Please Kill Me


    h3000 wrote: »
    Ah now I never said nor implied any lack of talent on his part. I'm a huge Vale fan and as you said he did not win all his titles by fluke.

    Ah yeah, no worries. I wasn't having a go chief.
    h3000 wrote: »
    I takes a great rider, bike and team to do so. He just can't take to the Ducati's characteristics.

    Yep, and the rider and most of the engineering team are willing and able, but the powers that be aren't doing all they can unfortunately.
    h3000 wrote: »
    That said I don't think we will ever see the Vale of his championship years even if he had a Honda or Yamaha.

    No, I think you may be right. As sad as it is, I think he's passed his sell by date and there are a lot of younger, quicker, hungrier riders out there and up-and-coming from Moto2.
    ninja900 wrote: »
    Ducati planning new engine, probably with a V angle less than 90 degrees (like Honda) for better packaging

    Yeah, I heard that alright. Some of it is to do with weight re-distribution too. Hope it works for them.
    Yikert wrote: »
    Stoner is on fire this year, the slo-mo shots are scary!!

    As much as I dislike the crying, whinging little dingo, you're right. His power slides are amazing to watch.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,784 ✭✭✭Monkeybonkers


    Just watched the MotoGP race yesterday. Not much of a race, Stoner had it under control for the first lap. Imagine if he was fully fit, he'd annihilate the opposition. Much too good for these. Can they find anyone to challenge him?


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,906 ✭✭✭✭CJhaughey


    Just watched the MotoGP race yesterday. Not much of a race, Stoner had it under control for the first lap. Imagine if he was fully fit
    He is fit I thought? He had some issues with arm pump but thats due to the chatter from the bike rather than an injury.
    If HRC can fix the chatter early this season, you won't see CS27 for the rest of the year.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,784 ✭✭✭Monkeybonkers


    CJhaughey wrote: »
    He is fit I thought? He had some issues with arm pump but thats due to the chatter from the bike rather than an injury.
    If HRC can fix the chatter early this season, you won't see CS27 for the rest of the year.


    Yes, but chatter causes arm pump which is an injury. Would also like to see Crutchlow get a race win


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