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Keep abortion out of Ireland

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    #1742
    marienbad
    Registered Users Posts: 9,463 ✭✭✭marienbad


    qrrgprgua wrote: »
    Sure. Did you not see the movie linked before? Who was giving the girls contraception?

    You have to admit in 2012 Ireland that contraception is very widely and easily available.

    Its not the "only" solution to abortion. Why not teach commitment? What is wrong waiting for the right person? Sex does not have to be the after dinner mint of a night out.

    I personally blame more the young male culture in Ireland which is going out to "score" on the weekend. Sex with x number of girls the bragging right.

    Why is it wrong to propose commitment and love in a relationship as the best way to avoid an abortion? Emotionally sex is better in a committed relationship. All contraception does for a young girl is saying she can experiment without getting pregnant and makes sex cheap. All the while opening up to other risks emotionally and STD wise.

    I never said contraception is the ''only'' solution . I also mentioned what is without question the best solution - education and advice and that includes commitment love responsilility .

    As for waiting for the right person - there is nothing wrong with it - until who you thought was the right person did'nt turn out to be so right after all, such is life .

    It seems to me you are longing to a pre 1970's Ireland - and forgetting just how horrible that Ireland was. Have you forgotten that astonshing radio broadcast by gay byrne detailing young girls giving birth in fields, unaided and alone ? How did those girls got pregnant ?What do you think happen to those babies ? Thankfully we have left that dark age behind.


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    #1743
    Malari
    Registered Users Posts: 18,150 ✭✭✭✭Malari


    qrrgprgua wrote: »
    Sure. Did you not see the movie linked before? Who was giving the girls contraception?

    You have to admit in 2012 Ireland that contraception is very widely and easily available.

    Its not the "only" solution to abortion. Why not teach commitment? What is wrong waiting for the right person? Sex does not have to be the after dinner mint of a night out.

    I personally blame more the young male culture in Ireland which is going out to "score" on the weekend. Sex with x number of girls the bragging right.

    Why is it wrong to propose commitment and love in a relationship as the best way to avoid an abortion? Emotionally sex is better in a committed relationship. All contraception does for a young girl is saying she can experiment without getting pregnant and makes sex cheap. All the while opening up to other risks emotionally and STD wise.

    You have a seriously narrow view of things if you think young girls who are promiscuous as a result of contraception are the only ones who seek abortions. Some women just don't want kids or don't even want to go through a pregnancy - yes, even in a committed, loving relationship where support isn't an issue.


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    #1744
    Zombrex
    Closed Accounts Posts: 25,848 ✭✭✭✭Zombrex


    qrrgprgua wrote: »
    Send a sample of an aborted fetus to a laboratory and have them test the DNA to see if its human or not.

    So the sperm is non-human? Ok, what species is it then?
    qrrgprgua wrote: »
    Genetically, a new human being comes into existence from the earliest moment of conception.

    Genetically if you define a "new" human as a unique sequence of human DNA a "new" human comes into existence when the sperm cell is created and when the egg cell is created, since that is when the shuffling of DNA takes place. The process that decides which genes you inherit from your parents takes place at this stage, not at conception as was originally thought. Conception does not produce a new unique sequence of DNA, such a sequence already exists.

    This of course first requires that you define a "new" human life form as a life form with a unique sequence of DNA. Such a definition is non-sensical when applied to concepts such as twins as it would require that they are defined as the same life form.


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    #1745
    qrrgprgua
    Registered Users Posts: 786 ✭✭✭qrrgprgua


    Malari wrote: »
    You have a seriously narrow view of things if you think young girls who are promiscuous as a result of contraception are the only ones who seek abortions. Some women just don't want kids or don't even want to go through a pregnancy - yes, even in a committed, loving relationship where support isn't an issue.

    Not wanting kids and Killing a Child that exists are two different things.

    Drawing from Greys anatomy

    ”You killed our baby. You don’t ever forget that!” Owen cries out.

    And that, RH Reality Check, is actually the “reflection of current attitudes” percolating under the surface of millions of relationships in America no matter how much time has passed since the Roe decision. People instinctively know abortion kills a baby.


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    #1746
    Malari
    Registered Users Posts: 18,150 ✭✭✭✭Malari


    I know they are different things. I'm refuting your point that abortion could be avoided with people only having sex on committed relationships. Even if that outlandish idea came true, women would still seek abortions! Women who don't want kids and don't want to go through pregnancy. Your 'solution' is ludicrous.


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    #1747
    qrrgprgua
    Registered Users Posts: 786 ✭✭✭qrrgprgua


    Malari wrote: »
    I know they are different things. I'm refuting your point that abortion could be avoided with people only having sex on committed relationships. Even if that outlandish idea came true, women would still seek abortions! Women who don't want kids and don't want to go through pregnancy. Your 'solution' is ludicrous.

    If a women is so set on not having kids.. would she not get sterilised or get permanent contraception? (not that I am saying they are right)

    My wife 100% does not want more kids. Our solution is to avoid sex during that week. Its worked for us.

    She does not want more because she gets diabetics and has blood pressure problems. Plus she already had 3 miscarriages and we have 3 kids.


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    #1748
    Malari
    Registered Users Posts: 18,150 ✭✭✭✭Malari


    It's impossible to get female sterilisation in this country for women of child-bearing age who have not already had children. Yeah, people use all the contraception they can but sometimes things go wrong.


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    #1749
    marienbad
    Registered Users Posts: 9,463 ✭✭✭marienbad


    qrrgprgua wrote: »
    If a women is so set on not having kids.. would she not get sterilised or get permanent contraception? (not that I am saying they are right)

    My wife 100% does not want more kids. Our solution is to avoid sex during that week. Its worked for us.

    She does not want more because she gets diabetics and has blood pressure problems. Plus she already had 3 miscarriages and we have 3 kids.

    I am sure you would like to make those options illegal also , and to use it as a rebuttal is just disingenuous.

    It would seems you want a state run along the lines of Catholicism - why not just say it and be done with it.


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    #1750
    qrrgprgua
    Registered Users Posts: 786 ✭✭✭qrrgprgua


    Malari wrote: »
    It's impossible to get female sterilisation in this country for women of child-bearing age who have not already had children. Yeah, people use all the contraception they can but sometimes things go wrong.


    That's life! Things will always go wrong. We deal with it. Its not a perfect world. Abortion as a solution is pandering to the lowest levels of our humanity. Sure my wife had German measles when she was pregnant with our daughter. Doctors and nurses were pretty mute about this whole thing. And she is perfectly fine.. no negative effects at all. Which is against all odds I am told.

    Children are the most amazing gift to a parent. They should not be treated as a crisis.


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    #1751
    qrrgprgua
    Registered Users Posts: 786 ✭✭✭qrrgprgua


    marienbad wrote: »
    I am sure you would like to make those options illegal also , and to use it as a rebuttal is just disingenuous.

    It would seems you want a state run along the lines of Catholicism - why not just say it and be done with it.


    What has the Catholic Church got to do with Abortion!!!!


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    #1752
    Malari
    Registered Users Posts: 18,150 ✭✭✭✭Malari


    Yes, and some people will deal with it by having an abortion. There is no getting away from it, there will always be a demand for it. Just because some people are ok with having an unplanned baby or doing adoption, some never will be. You say things 'shouldn't' happen but they do! You're in complete denial.


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    #1753
    qrrgprgua
    Registered Users Posts: 786 ✭✭✭qrrgprgua


    Malari wrote: »
    Yes, and some people will deal with it by having an abortion. There is no getting away from it, there will always be a demand for it. Just because some people are ok with having an unplanned baby or doing adoption, some never will be. You say things 'shouldn't' happen but they do! You're in complete denial.

    Yes Like rape, Murder, Child abuse. They always happened.


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    #1754
    Malari
    Registered Users Posts: 18,150 ✭✭✭✭Malari


    qrrgprgua wrote: »
    Yes Like rape, Murder, Child abuse. They always happened.

    Yes, they are all illegal and yet they still happen. Your point?

    You know they are not the same as enforced pregnancy. You think killing an unborn baby is worse than forcing a woman to go through a pregnancy. Many don't.


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    #1755
    qrrgprgua
    Registered Users Posts: 786 ✭✭✭qrrgprgua


    Malari wrote: »
    Yes, they are all illegal and yet they still happen. Your point?

    You know they are not the same as enforced pregnancy. You think killing an unborn baby is worse than forcing a woman to go through a pregnancy. Many don't.

    Its still killing a baby.. What people think does not take away from what it is. What people think does not make the baby any more or less human. Its still a child.


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    #1756
    marienbad
    Registered Users Posts: 9,463 ✭✭✭marienbad


    qrrgprgua wrote: »
    What has the Catholic Church got to do with Abortion!!!!

    Well it seems your position on contraception, morning after,sterilisation,right to information, right to travel, abortion, stem cell research seems to be a mirror image of the Catholic Church position , I am just asking you why not just say so .

    At least that way we will know you support the whole package.


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    #1757
    marienbad
    Registered Users Posts: 9,463 ✭✭✭marienbad


    qrrgprgua wrote: »
    Its still killing a baby.. What people think does not take away from what it is. What people think does not make the baby any more or less human. Its still a child.

    Would you advocate putting the mother and the medical practitioner(s) on trial for murder ?


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    #1758
    qrrgprgua
    Registered Users Posts: 786 ✭✭✭qrrgprgua


    marienbad wrote: »
    Well it seems your position on contraception, morning after,sterilisation,right to information, right to travel, abortion, stem cell research seems to be a mirror image of the Catholic Church position , I am just asking you why not just say so .

    At least that way we will know you support the whole package.


    Look.. My position on Abortion. Which this thread is about. Is the same position at 99% of the 20,000+ Christian churches. I am talking about abortion, Information on it, travel to it, Abortive pills etcc.

    Opposition to abortion is not a Doctrine the Catholic Church invented.


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    #1759
    Malari
    Registered Users Posts: 18,150 ✭✭✭✭Malari


    qrrgprgua wrote: »
    Its still killing a baby.. What people think does not take away from what it is. What people think does not make the baby any more or less human. Its still a child.

    I know what you think. But I'm just saying that when it comes to killing an unborn child and forcing a woman to go through an unwanted pregnancy, many feel that the former is the lesser of two evils, so to speak.


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    #1760
    qrrgprgua
    Registered Users Posts: 786 ✭✭✭qrrgprgua


    Malari wrote: »
    I know what you think. But I'm just saying that when it comes to killing an unborn child and forcing a woman to go through an unwanted pregnancy, many feel that the former is the lesser of two evils, so to speak.


    Wrong because a child is never an evil.


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    #1761
    Malari
    Registered Users Posts: 18,150 ✭✭✭✭Malari


    qrrgprgua wrote: »
    Wrong because a child is never an evil.

    You misunderstand. I said killing the unborn child was the evil. And that a forced pregnancy is worse, some will argue.

    It's not comparable to rape, murder and child abuse. Have you ever heard anyone say 'oh I wouldn't murder or rape myself, but if others want to do it, that's their choice'?


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    #1762
    qrrgprgua
    Registered Users Posts: 786 ✭✭✭qrrgprgua


    Mississippi's Last abortion clinic may close.


    http://edition.cnn.com/2012/06/30/us/mississippi-abortion-clinic/index.html


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    #1763
    qrrgprgua
    Registered Users Posts: 786 ✭✭✭qrrgprgua


    Pro-Abortion chief uses his "Charity" funds for designer shopping sprees.

    http://blogs.wsj.com/metropolis/2012/06/29/former-abortion-rights-chief-sued-by-attorney-generals-office/?mod=google_news_blog


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    #1764
    qrrgprgua
    Registered Users Posts: 786 ✭✭✭qrrgprgua


    Michigan House of Representatives passes anti-abortion bill

    http://www.wsws.org/articles/2012/jun2012/mich-j30.shtml


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    #1765
    Sonics2k
    Registered Users Posts: 8,239 ✭✭✭Sonics2k


    qrrgprgua wrote: »
    Pro-Abortion chief uses his "Charity" funds for designer shopping sprees.

    http://blogs.wsj.com/metropolis/2012/06/29/former-abortion-rights-chief-sued-by-attorney-generals-office/?mod=google_news_blog

    What does this have to do with anything?

    She's a corrupt businesswoman, it happens on both sides.

    I mean, if you want to resort to cheap shots I could link the picture showing the Anti-Abortion group using a stock photo (also used by a punk group and others) of a bunch of teenagers?


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    #1766
    Delirium
    Moderators Posts: 51,713 ✭✭✭✭Delirium


    qrrgprgua wrote: »
    Pro-Abortion chief uses his "Charity" funds for designer shopping sprees.

    http://blogs.wsj.com/metropolis/2012/06/29/former-abortion-rights-chief-sued-by-attorney-generals-office/?mod=google_news_blog
    Would you mind elaborating on what point you are trying to make with this link with regards to the topic of the thread?
    qrrgprgua wrote: »
    Michigan House of Representatives passes anti-abortion bill

    http://www.wsws.org/articles/2012/jun2012/mich-j30.shtml

    So Michigan is going to make an abortion cost prohibitive to the poorest women in the state?

    If you can read this, you're too close!



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    #1767
    qrrgprgua
    Registered Users Posts: 786 ✭✭✭qrrgprgua


    Sonics2k wrote: »
    What does this have to do with anything?

    She's a corrupt businesswoman, it happens on both sides.

    I mean, if you want to resort to cheap shots I could link the picture showing the Anti-Abortion group using a stock photo (also used by a punk group and others) of a bunch of teenagers?


    I made a number of posts about the Abortion industry. I am highlightly the latest escapade of this industry. Which at the end of the day is not about helping women... But making money at all levels.


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    #1768
    Delirium
    Moderators Posts: 51,713 ✭✭✭✭Delirium


    qrrgprgua wrote: »
    Sonics2k wrote: »
    What does this have to do with anything?

    She's a corrupt businesswoman, it happens on both sides.

    I mean, if you want to resort to cheap shots I could link the picture showing the Anti-Abortion group using a stock photo (also used by a punk group and others) of a bunch of teenagers?


    I made a number of posts about the Abortion industry. I am highlightly the latest escapade of this industry. Which at the end of the day is not about helping women... But making money at all levels.

    Are you equally opposed to the pharmaceutical and private hospital industries?

    If you can read this, you're too close!



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    #1769
    qrrgprgua
    Registered Users Posts: 786 ✭✭✭qrrgprgua


    Abandoned, Aborted, or Left for Dead: These Are the Vanishing Girls of Pakistan

    http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2012/06/abandoned-aborted-or-left-for-dead-these-are-the-vanishing-girls-of-pakistan/258648/


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    #1770
    qrrgprgua
    Registered Users Posts: 786 ✭✭✭qrrgprgua


    Interesting article.

    http://online.worldmag.com/2012/06/27/fetal-homicide-and-abortion/


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    #1771
    qrrgprgua
    Registered Users Posts: 786 ✭✭✭qrrgprgua


    koth wrote: »
    Are you equally opposed to the pharmaceutical and private hospital industries?

    No as long as they don't intentionally kill anyone.


This discussion has been closed.
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