Stay classy Gardai - Mod Note in OP

Mr. Manager

I'm finding it difficult not to side with the Gardai here.

The man was looking for a reaction and he got one. Maybe not the reaction he wanted.

What was he hoping to accomplish by not abiding to their instructions? That they might just say "Well, I guess he doesn't want to co-operate with us, we should just let him go on about his business".


Idiot.

hondasam

Seachmall wrote: »

I figured he was shouting so the camera would pick him up clear or because he intentionally had the window closed so he was conscious of being heard through it.

Or because he's a dickhead.

I meant his attitude, though he was the one asking the questions, it was obvious he was out for trouble when the banners walked away.

Liam Byrne

baltimore sun wrote: »

Ridiculous reaction from the cops though. Fair play to yer man for having a camera on his dash.

Ah yes, because people who aren't out to cause a scene always have their cameras running on their dashboard..... :rolleyes:

lastlaugh

Seachmall wrote: »

He did not refuse.

He didn't verbally refuse, he just didn't bother his ass to do what he was asked which is tantamount to refusing.

Seachmall wrote: »

He may not have moved with the haste and glee you would have liked but he did not refused.

He was being passive aggressive.

Seachmall wrote: »

Had he attempted to continue pulling in he would have hit the third Garda.

He only made a token effort when he saw the Guard coming over.

Seachmall wrote: »

His actions indicate his intent.

Exactly, he acted like a twat and he intended to act like a twat.

Seachmall wrote: »

His actions were pulling in thus his intent was to pull in.

I think it's his lack of action that showed his intent.

44leto

Just seen the op LOL
I was more disturbed by the Mod warning.
What happened was there some sort of political upheaval
are we now living in a police state..

Why can't we bash the garde.

hondasam

This is some of John Monaghan's account of what happened, it is how we seen it on the video?

John Monaghan is a Rossport resident and is a spokesperson for Pobail Chill Chomain, a community campaign opposing Shell's inland refinery project in north Mayo (the Corrib Gas project). Here is John's account of what happened:

"This occurred at lunchtime on Ash Wednesday, 22nd February, 2012, on a small local road, L1202 in Glengad, Co Mayo. This is close to Shell's haulage route and about 70 metres from Shell's compound in Glengad. This is a few kilometres from Shell's refinery site at Bellanaboy.

"You can see that two female Gardaí approached the car. When the third Garda, a man, approached the window, he had his baton drawn before he knocked on the window. After he smashed the window, I got out of the car. The Garda told me I was under arrest. I was surrounded by Gardaí with batons drawn.

" 'Are you refusing to show your licence?'," the male Garda said. I thought I was in for a beating.

"When I took out my driver's licence and he looked at it, the atmosphere changed instantly. They all backed away and suddenly I wasn't under arrest any more. The only conclusion I can draw is that they assumed I was an outside supporter, from the Rossport Solidarity Camp. I assume that when they saw my name and a Rossport address address, that is what changed their approach.

"So, I was left a bleeding hand from the broken window and with a car with a broken window on the side of the road. I phoned Belmullet Garda station to complain and to ask for assistance. They refused to send anyone.

Seachmall

hondasam wrote: »

I meant his attitude, though he was the one asking the questions, it was obvious he was out for trouble when the banners walked away.

No doubt about that.

I think he went out with the aim of being as provocative as he could while still remaining on the right side of a law with the intent of getting an unreasonable reaction from the Gardaí so that he could publicise how poorly the Gardaí are dealing with protesters.

Unfortunately I think he succeeded in getting a reaction while acting within his legal right, but I also think he, and the protestors, come off as disingenuous assholes fully deserving of what happened.

I'm still critical of the Garda in this situation as from what I can tell he acted in a manner not in accordance with the law. I do however appreciate I don't have the full story here.

lastlaugh wrote:

I think it's his lack of action that showed his intent.

Given that the video clearly shows he attempted to pull in your point is completely invalid.

If you believe just under 9 seconds to be an unreasonable amount of time then we'll have to agree to disagree but him ultimately attempting to pull in is not in dispute. It is an observable fact.

Liam Byrne

Seachmall wrote: »

....I also think he, and the protestors, come off as disingenuous assholes fully deserving of what happened.

...and in the process are frightening decent people off protesting because they don't want to be associated with that crap and don't want to be there when some "provocative disingenuous" individual decides to antagonise someone on a pre-prepared camera for the sake of a cheap YouTube PR stunt.

hondasam

Seachmall wrote: »

No doubt about that.

I think he went out with the aim of being as provocative as he could while still remaining on the right side of a law with the intent of getting an unreasonable reaction from the Gardaí so that he could publicise how poorly the Gardaí are dealing with protesters.

Unfortunately I think he succeeded in getting a reaction while acting within his legal right, but I also think he, and the protestors, come off as disingenuous assholes fully deserving of what happened.

I'm still critical of the Garda in this situation as from what I can tell he acted in a manner not in accordance with the law. I do however appreciate I don't have the full story here.

I think they were in accordance with the law, acted on it a bit to quick from what we have seen.
I don't think John Monaghan is telling it like we seen it, what do you think?

Seachmall

hondasam wrote: »

I don't think John Monaghan is telling it like we seen it, what do you think?

I'm only going by the video, no doubt he's framing it to make the big bad Gardaí look like enforcers for commercial interests.

I think they were in accordance with the law, acted on it a bit to quick from what we have seen.

I kind of agree with you but I think it's an "agree to disagree" situation.

Sunnyisland

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Ah yes, because people who aren't out to cause a scene always have their cameras running on their dashboard..... :rolleyes:

With the amount of falsified accidents and claims an awful lot of private drivers have now got dash cams installed,Just saying

Pottler

It's all wind and vinegar untill YOU are the one geting your window put in or getting verbally abused when going about your lawful business. I was forced to stop by a Bike Cop because he parked up front of me in the middle of a lane of the N7(red cow) so he could go back and roar abuse at another motorist(nothing to do with me) - his exact comment to meas he walked past (because I didn't run over his bike parked in front of me, presumably, to keep going as all the other lanes were full of traffic) was "what do you want you cnut, f#ck off out of here or I'll do you, you f'cking b#stard". Yeah Gard, good man, way to respect the public.Oh yeah, the other guys offense was to not be wearing a seatbelt- well worth the aggro the Guard caused to rush hour traffic....

hondasam

Pottler wrote: »

It's all wind and vinegar untill YOU are the one geting your window put in or getting verbally abused when going about your lawful business. I was forced to stop by a Bike Cop because he parked up front of me in the middle of a lane of the N7(red cow) so he could go back and roar abuse at another motorist(nothing to do with me) - his exact comment to meas he walked past (because I didn't run over his bike parked in front of me, presumably, to keep going as all the other lanes were full of traffic) was "what do you want you cnut, f#ck off out of here or I'll do you, you f'cking b#stard". Yeah Gard, good man, way to respect the public.

That is a disgraceful way to speak to anyone.

lastlaugh

Seachmall wrote: »

Given that the video clearly shows he attempted to pull in your point is completely invalid.

If you believe just under 9 seconds to be an unreasonable amount of time then we'll have to agree to disagree but him ultimately attempting to pull in is not in dispute. It is an observable fact.

Given that he ignored what the ban Guard asked him to do, which was pull in, and instead told her he was 'goin about his business' I struggle to understand how you continue to defend this clown.

We will agree to disagree but moving a few inches after several indications to do so is not acceptable in my book. If you think he was being in any way co-operative well then I reckon you must be deluded.

And that's even before he wouldn't open the door!

Podge_irl

Odd how he claims he didn't hear the Guards asking for his driving license yet assumed the Guards heard him saying his window was broken (at a fairly normal level voice).

Presumably if he's telling the truth about not hearing them, then from their perspective they saw a driver wilfully disobeying instructions to pull in and then refusing to open his window for no reason.

paddyandy

Full marks to the Guards .The Gob****e was looking for it .

Seachmall

lastlaugh wrote: »

Given that he ignored what the ban Guard asked him to do, which was pull in, and instead told her he was 'goin about his business' I struggle to understand how you continue to defend this clown.

We will agree to disagree but moving a few inches after several indications to do so is not acceptable in my book. If you think he was being in any way co-operative well then I reckon you must be deluded.

And that's even before he wouldn't open the door!

At 0:49 the Garda asks him to pull in
At 0:59 the second Garda moves out of the way to allow him to pull in.
At 1:04 we hear movement in the car, possibly him putting it in gear/taking off the hand break.
At 1:08 the car begins to move.
At 1:09 the third Garda prevents him from moving any further and approaches his window.

Now, it is factual that from the time he was able to move the car to the time he stopped 9 seconds had passed.

And we can speculate that 5 seconds of that time was him sitting there and 4 seconds of that time was him getting the car in gear.

Regardless if you accept my speculations or not you cannot deny it took him no longer than 9 seconds to move his car before he was approached by the third Garda.

I don't think 9 seconds is an unreasonable amount of time to do anything, hell; it took the second Garda almost 10 seconds to get out of his way to allow him pull in.

We can agree to disagree on whether or not 9 seconds is an unreasonable amount of time but his actions ultimately show his intent was to move in. He did not refuse to pull in.

This is my last post on this. It's as clear as day.

lastlaugh

Seachmall wrote: »

This is my last post on this. It's as clear as day.

The only thing that's as clear as day is that he was being completely unco-operative and trying to create a little anti-Guard propaganda video.

Senna

Seachmall wrote: »

We can agree to disagree on whether or not 9 seconds is an unreasonable amount of time but his actions ultimately show his intent was to move in. He did not refuse to pull in.

If it takes that driver 9 seconds to put a car into gear and move off, he must spend the rest of his day stuck at red lights:rolleyes:

This isn't a normal situation, the driver has ulterior motive and was doing his very best to provoke a reaction. Any normal person can follow the directions of a guard, produce a license within seconds and be on their way.

FoxT

I think that if you are stopped then your first priority is to communicate with the guard that has stopped you. ( assuming, of course, that you are an ordinary pilgrim who is not looking for blogfodder) . The corollary here is that cops will suspect you immediately if you don't do this.
The car came to a halt at about 32s into the video, and the window was smashed about 2 mins later. In that crucial 2 min period, no meaningful communication took place.


If I was a Guard running a checkpoint in the middle of nowhere on a wet day, I'd have given him 30 seconds to open the door, get out, stand up & talk. These guys gave him 2 whole minutes..pretty generous.

There is of course, no law that says 'if your window is stuck, you must open the door in order to communicate'. OTOH There is no law that says a garda cannot smash the window if your car if they deem you to be uncooperative. A bit of common sense is needed here.

On a side note - I have seen police in France, Italy, and the US behave far more brutally - and with less provocation - than the guards did here.

On another side note, garda #4 seems to have trouble with his fly...comical.

On another side note again, at one point when it is clear that the driver is being uncooperative, a cop walks right in front of the car & turns his back to it! this is sooo stupid it is funny!

Anyway, I havent read all 99,000 pages of this thread, just the first 15 or so, I still think the cops were justified.

Individual gardai can be thick, belligerent or aggressive, and there have been a instances of appalling behaviour ( Nicky Kelly/garda 'heavy Gang', Morris Report, Kerry babies) but overall I have reasonable faith in them.

There is no doubt that they can turn nasty in the face of civil disobedience or if the govt feels it is under threat (See Greece) - but in this instance, If I was a garda superintendent , I'd be fully confident that they did the right thing.

-FoxT

italodisco

You are all fools.,.really, what kind of Ahab drives around with a cam on the dash if just 'going about his business ' in the back arse nowhere ( mayo lol)...
The video just demonstrates why we have so much trouble on the streets here, in France, Spain, Poland etc if u behaved like that their cops would put the window in, pull u out through it by your hair and batter you.... But here no one has any respect for authority, and no fear either...

Some effing spud munching thicko made a video like that to prove what? That a fair amount of people from mayo are dumb dumbs lol ...that's nothing we didn't know already....

Lol I can't wait for all the socialist reclaim the streets types to go mad at my post.... The 'do gooders'! !! At the end of the day you respect your police force ....and count your lucky stars that we have such a SOFT police force compared to most other euro countries ....

Que the do gooders angry hippy replies lol

mikom

italodisco wrote: »

You are all fools

the back arse nowhere ( mayo lol)...

put the window in, pull u out through it by your hair and batter you

Some effing spud munching thicko

That a fair amount of people from mayo are dumb dumbs lol ...that's nothing we didn't know already....

So much anger.

italodisco wrote: »

Que the do gooders angry hippy replies lol

Manuel?

FoxT

We are not all fools, to be fair.Some of us are foolish some of the time, but all of us are not foolish all of the time! Many of us are not foolish all of the time, and some of us are never foolish, at all, at all!

K-9

Any evidence the Guard smashed the window or are we taking a You Tube video as definitive?

micropig

italodisco wrote: »

You are all fools.,.really, what kind of Ahab drives around with a cam on the dash if just 'going about his business ' in the back arse nowhere ( mayo lol)...
The video just demonstrates why we have so much trouble on the streets here, in France, Spain, Poland etc if u behaved like that their cops would put the window in, pull u out through it by your hair and batter you.... But here no one has any respect for authority, and no fear either...

Some effing spud munching thicko made a video like that to prove what? That a fair amount of people from mayo are dumb dumbs lol ...that's nothing we didn't know already....

Lol I can't wait for all the socialist reclaim the streets types to go mad at my post.... The 'do gooders'! !! At the end of the day you respect your police force ....and count your lucky stars that we have such a SOFT police force compared to most other euro countries ....

Que the do gooders angry hippy replies lol

The kind of people who drive around with cameras on their dash are the people in the area where Gardai have been setting up roadblocks in their area since at least 2006 and are tired of explaining themselves to the Gardai every time they go somewhere.

Have we reduced our Gardai to be security for multi nationals?

I can think of a lot of places where their presence is needed in this country, but I'm not sure Mayo is top of the list.

Some people on this thread seem convinced that the Gardai are always right...The case of the corrupt Gardai framing the men in Donegal keeps springing to mind.

Zab

Potential-Monke wrote: »

This leads the Garda to believe there is a reason he does not want to open the window/car and decides that the only course of action is to smash the window which he is legally entitled to do (how else can you get to the driver?).

Ah, the 90 seconds for compliance or we smash your window law. aka the Potential-Monke of boards law.

milehip1

italodisco wrote: »

You are all fools.,.really, what kind of Ahab drives around with a cam on the dash if just 'going about his business ' in the back arse nowhere ( mayo lol)...
The video just demonstrates why we have so much trouble on the streets here, in France, Spain, Poland etc if u behaved like that their cops would put the window in, pull u out through it by your hair and batter you.... But here no one has any respect for authority, and no fear either...

Some effing spud munching thicko made a video like that to prove what? That a fair amount of people from mayo are dumb dumbs lol ...that's nothing we didn't know already....

Lol I can't wait for all the socialist reclaim the streets types to go mad at my post.... The 'do gooders'! !! At the end of the day you respect your police force ....and count your lucky stars that we have such a SOFT police force compared to most other euro countries ....

Que the do gooders angry hippy replies lol

Must not feed troll -agghh too much troll- need anti troll spray stat!!!!!


(edit:calling you a troll there in case you missed the point)

ch750536

Are they not supposed to be professional?
Was this guy posing a risk?
Are they allowed to threaten people with pepper spray?
What law was this person breaking?

Dump

Why are people saying the window was smashed? No evidence of that happening on video.

Savage93

baltimore sun wrote: »

I don't think he helped the situation by not opening the door, but then again, are you allowed open a door when a Garda approaches? Or are you only allowed lower your window.
Ridiculous reaction from the cops though. Fair play to yer man for having a camera on his dash.

Mod note: this thread is about this video only. Any attempts to bring in general gardai bashing will be baton-charged.

.

More bull**** propaganda from treehugging hairy holes about garda attitudes.
Facts
1. he was stopped at a legitimate checkpoint.
2. he refused on 3 occasions to pull his car over to allow the 4wd coming opposite to pass.
3.he whined on about the window being broken but wouldn't open the door.
4 I love the bit about the garda having to use violence to retract his baton "as a result of the violence to the window". all extendible batons have to be retracted by striking the end on a hard surface.

The sooner the Gardai can inform the dole office that these hairyholes are not available for work because they are prickacting around the country every day wasting valuable garda resources and state money (yours and mine that is) and all of them can be cut off the dole to run home to mammy and daddy the better.

"handy he had the camersd all the same" not a bit provocative is it.
His attitude meant it was going to come to grief anyway, pity he wasn't peppersprayed