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'Fag' and 'that's so gay' -- do they bother you?

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    #92
    bodice ripper
    Registered Users Posts: 4,681 ✭✭✭bodice ripper


    mango salsa wrote: »
    who mentioned control?

    Nobody, as far as I recall.

    But seeing as you can't and shouldn't try to control what people say, and seeing as language evolves, perhaps it would be best for one's own sanity to not take offence where it is clear that none is intended.


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    #93
    baby and crumble
    Registered Users Posts: 8,512 ✭✭✭baby and crumble


    bodice ripper wrote: »
    Nobody, as far as I recall.

    But seeing as you can't and shouldn't try to control what people say, and seeing as language evolves, perhaps it would be best for one's own sanity to not take offence where it is clear that none is intended.

    Since when is it an option? I know I don't 'choose' to get offended by certain jokes, remarks, or opinions, but nevertheless I sometimes am. You can't control an emotional response.


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    #94
    lahalane
    Closed Accounts Posts: 954 ✭✭✭lahalane


    Its common sense that being offended isnt an option but how do you control it? Ban words? Maybe thatll offend people who appreciate the English language. If everybody got offended by the same thing it would be easy but thats not the case unfortunately which is kind of gay.


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    #95
    bodice ripper
    Registered Users Posts: 4,681 ✭✭✭bodice ripper


    baby and crumble wrote: »
    Since when is it an option? I know I don't 'choose' to get offended by certain jokes, remarks, or opinions, but nevertheless I sometimes am. You can't control an emotional response.



    I can. I used to be an angry, angry young woman about these things. thankfully I grew out of it before I drove good friends who cared about me away becuase of semantics.


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    #96
    Awake&Unafraid
    Registered Users Posts: 96 ✭✭Awake&Unafraid


    lahalane wrote: »
    If everybody got offended by the same thing it would be easy but thats not the case unfortunately which is kind of gay.
    Seriously?


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    #97
    lahalane
    Closed Accounts Posts: 954 ✭✭✭lahalane


    Awake&Unafraid wrote: »
    Seriously?

    What? I wasn't referring to gay in the homosexual sense, I was referring to it in the stupid sense. Its in the dictionary?


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    #98
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 40,814 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    lahalane wrote: »
    What? I wasn't referring to gay in the homosexual sense, I was referring to it in the stupid sense. Its in the dictionary?

    Quit trolling

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #99
    2Mad2BeMad
    Registered Users Posts: 2,790 ✭✭✭2Mad2BeMad


    i always use them words , except fag, to me even saying the word fag seems like wanting a smoke
    but i always say thats so gay if someone does something gay if their actually straight
    but if their gay , id still say it :D have a few gay friends , always do it to wind them up haha but their cool about it cause they no i dont mean any bad intentions towards them


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    #100
    Xevkin
    Registered Users Posts: 75 ✭✭Xevkin


    It raises my hackles everytime I here "gay" used derogatively, but don't say anyone. People can say what they want, but I wish they were more conscious of the fact that the root of the meaning HAS to be equating homosexuality with a bad thing. If people ask/or say "no offense", that's what I tell them . . .hasn't worked yet.


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    #101
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 40,814 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    http://i.imgur.com/28jtISB.png

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #102
    cartell_best
    Closed Accounts Posts: 579 ✭✭✭cartell_best


    bodice ripper wrote: »
    I can. I used to be an angry, angry young woman about these things. thankfully I grew out of it before I drove good friends who cared about me away becuase of semantics.

    For that particular quote^^^, never a truer word spoken.

    just my little bit: "Throughout life people will make you mad, disrespect you and treat you bad. Let God deal with the things they do, cause hate in your heart will consume you too"


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    #103
    old hippy
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,441 ✭✭✭old hippy


    cartell_best wrote: »
    For that particular quote^^^, never a truer word spoken.

    just my little bit: "Throughout life people will make you mad, disrespect you and treat you bad. Let God deal with the things they do, cause hate in your heart will consume you too"

    Don't patronise us with your god bobbins. People need to be made aware of the offence they cause here and now. Not in some non existent afterlife.:mad:


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    #104
    ashers222
    Closed Accounts Posts: 172 ✭✭ashers222


    old hippy wrote: »
    Don't patronise us with your god bobbins. People need to be made aware of the offence they cause here and now. Not in some non existent afterlife.:mad:
    when you say us don't you really mean you? If other's beliefs cause you such affront perhaps it's better if you don't speak for all of us. At least, don't speak for me. Thanks.


    sweet fcuking mother of jjesus


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    #105
    CheekyChappy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 36 ✭CheekyChappy


    To be honest I don't like it. And it doesn't matter even if you use those words but not in a bad way, you are still using them.

    Sometimes my friends will argue and the word ****** might be thrown in and then the room goes quite because people think "you shouldn't have said that James is here" and it makes me feel very awkward.

    Yes words change, but today ****** is still a derogatory term for a gay person and its not acceptable


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    #106
    jaffacakesyum
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,207 ✭✭✭jaffacakesyum


    CheekyChappy wrote: »
    Yes words change, but today ****** is still a derogatory term for a gay person and its not acceptable

    To you. To me it's perfectly acceptable. So I won't use the word around you. But to me and my friends any word is perfectly acceptable as long as the intent isn't malicious. So I/we will continue to use whatever words we like as long as it's not offending anyone else.


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    #107
    CheekyChappy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 36 ✭CheekyChappy


    jaffacakesyum wrote: »
    To you. To me it's perfectly acceptable. So I won't use the word around you. But to me and my friends any word is perfectly acceptable as long as the intent isn't malicious. So I/we will continue to use whatever words we like as long as it's not offending anyone else.

    Well then I'm afraid you're wrong. If these words continue to be used, even if they're not meant in a malicious way, people will continue to think that its ok to use them


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    #108
    jaffacakesyum
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,207 ✭✭✭jaffacakesyum


    CheekyChappy wrote: »
    Well then I'm afraid you're wrong. If these words continue to be used, even if they're not meant in a malicious way, people will continue to think that its ok to use them

    I DO think it's ok to use them. Why should I be censored as what I can and can't say?

    Is there any other words you want to ban me from saying?

    You can't control what words people use. You can only inform people that particular words or phrases offend YOU personally. You can't speak for me or the gay community or anybody else, you can only speak for yourself.


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    #109
    bodice ripper
    Registered Users Posts: 4,681 ✭✭✭bodice ripper


    CheekyChappy wrote: »
    If these words continue to be used, even if they're not meant in a malicious way, people will continue to think that its ok to use them

    it is.


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    #110
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 40,814 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    bodice ripper wrote: »
    it is.

    In your opinion. As you are aware many others don't share that opinion.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #111
    bodice ripper
    Registered Users Posts: 4,681 ✭✭✭bodice ripper


    mango salsa wrote: »
    In your opinion. As you are aware many others don't share that opinion.

    Well yes, obviously.


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    #112
    Awake&Unafraid
    Registered Users Posts: 96 ✭✭Awake&Unafraid


    bodice ripper wrote: »

    Well yes, obviously.
    Why then are you stating it as if your opinion is fact?


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    #113
    jaffacakesyum
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,207 ✭✭✭jaffacakesyum


    Awake&Unafraid wrote: »
    Why then are you stating it as if your opinion is fact?

    To be fair, people in this thread who are against anybody using any words that offend them personally (despite knowing that many - if not the majority of - people have no problems with the words) are stating their opinions as facts.


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    #114
    old hippy
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,441 ✭✭✭old hippy


    ashers222 wrote: »
    when you say us don't you really mean you? If other's beliefs cause you such affront perhaps it's better if you don't speak for all of us. At least, don't speak for me. Thanks.


    sweet fcuking mother of jjesus

    Bringing religion into this argument is quite frankly, offensive. Religion helps enforce hatred against gay people.


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    #115
    Crooked Jack
    Registered Users Posts: 5,678 ✭✭✭Crooked Jack


    I would certainly object to somebody using the word fag or faggot as it has a definite derogatory element to it and I cant imagine a sentence in which it would be used in any other way (unless youre talking about the old Irish usage of it.)
    Gay on the other hand isn't something that would bother me. it would totally depend on the context but in general the word has morphed into a meaning of its own, in a sense it's as far removed now from meaning homosexual as it is from its original meaning.


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    #116
    Ambersky
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,220 ✭✭✭Ambersky


    Over the years the use of certain words to describe people in what some consider a derogatory way has been a source of much argument.
    Within Feminism we have argued words describing women and all other non dominant groups for many years.
    People have argued that certain words and phrases hurt others and have at times expected that once that hurt was understood it would stop.
    That as I understand it is the origins of the much maligned expression, Politically Correct.
    But people didnt stop using hurtful words or expressions for a variety of reasons and there are some reasoned counter arguments besides "I will do what I like and I dont care who gets hurt" that need to be considered.
    Usually I am on the side of those wishing not to hurt others or to name them in ways that they find insulting and I think some common sense all round wouldn't go astray.

    Although political correctness gets a lot of bad press, arguments over words have already changed language and some would say gone on to change the way we think.
    As I said feminists have been arguing about the role of women in society for many years and have been arguing about language that presumes maleness for certain jobs and attributes. Now 50 years on, since the beginning of some of those campaigns, jobs that were once closed to women are now open and we no longer think certain jobs should be male only. Language change and social change have gone hand in hand, with the same kind of opposition and support as we find in other language arguments.

    Some people may find the thoughts in this article of interest.
    http://http://aggslanguage.wordpress.com/the-impact-of-political-correctness-on-language-change/ Although the thread title does not mention political correctness, nevertheless many of the arguments brought up in this article are already being argued in this thread.
    The article is pro pc generally but does briefly give the basis of the counter arguments too. There are many more sites available giving a more populist anti pc argument.

    Arguments For
    The theoretical foundation of the PC movement is this: language creates categories for thought, and words can create either opportunities or boundaries..... All of language is a construct that attempts to signify abstract meaning, and any construct will be lacking. The language we use affects not just the messages we communicate, but the fundamental ways that we think and act. The problem arises when the linguistic constructs we use influence our way of thinking in negative ways. These negative influences from language can be called politically incorrect.

    The three categories of this kind of language:

    1. Subtle: Words like policeman, mailman, fireman; referring to all people as man; referring to an androgynous individual as he. These exclusionary words subtly influence our way of thinking. The first three imply that these are roles for men only. This kind of language can keep women from being comfortable aspiring to these positions. The other general references of man and he are simply inaccurate and unnecessarily exclusionary. They imply that masculinity is the default and superior gender trait.
    2. Offensive: Words like gay or retarded to refer to something undesirable; words like fag or retard to refer to people. The first set shows how these descriptions inherently link certain types of individuals to anything bad by using terms that refer to them as insults for other undesirable concepts. The second set is offensive because of the pejorative connotations implied by these slurs. There are appropriate ways of referring to individuals that does not unnecessarily demean them.
    3. Blatant: The n-word to refer to black people or the c-word or b-word to refer to women. This type needs little explanation. These words are highly offensive and indicate a great deal of disdain. They objectify and belittle entire groups of people based on one trait.

    Arguments Against
    Critics argue that political correctness is censorship and endangers free speech by limiting what is considered acceptable public discourse. Other critics say that politically correct terms are awkward euphemisms for truer, original, stark language, comparing them to George Orwell’s Newspeak...........

    Some critics of political correctness argue that it is a form of coercion rooted in the assumption that in a political context... by this argument, ultimately, it means force or compulsion.

    Another criticism is that enforcers rarely consult the minorities they claim to be protecting, and controversies are therefore based on assumptions that the minorities want this, when this is often not the case,


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    #117
    ashers222
    Closed Accounts Posts: 172 ✭✭ashers222


    old hippy wrote: »
    Bringing religion into this argument is quite frankly, offensive. Religion helps enforce hatred against gay people.

    you know you responded to a post directed at another poster, the post itself didn't contain any malice in fact it was a gesture of empathy by one poster to another but the form it came in offends you because of your perception of a particular posters belief. That's the biggest load of shíte I've ever heard. The same could be said about how people are offended through their perception of the use of the word "gay". Equally, if the intent is to harm or offend I might be able to empathise with you.


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    #118
    Fozzydog3
    Registered Users Posts: 528 ✭✭✭Fozzydog3


    No, now Jew off and stop being so bloody Black about it .

    My sexuality isn't a burden and I don't look for ways to be offended unlike some people on this .


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    #119
    jaffacakesyum
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,207 ✭✭✭jaffacakesyum


    Fozzydog3 wrote: »
    No, now Jew off and stop being so bloody Black about it .

    My sexuality isn't a burden and I don't look for ways to be offended unlike some people on this .

    You're definitely gonna get banned for that :pac:


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    #120
    old hippy
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,441 ✭✭✭old hippy


    ashers222 wrote: »
    you know you responded to a post directed at another poster, the post itself didn't contain any malice in fact it was a gesture of empathy by one poster to another but the form it came in offends you because of your perception of a particular posters belief. That's the biggest load of shíte I've ever heard. The same could be said about how people are offended through their perception of the use of the word "gay". Equally, if the intent is to harm or offend I might be able to empathise with you.

    Bringing in a religion that actively persecutes gay people was malicious and offensive.

    End of.


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    #121
    ashers222
    Closed Accounts Posts: 172 ✭✭ashers222


    old hippy wrote: »
    Bringing in a religion that actively persecutes gay people was malicious and offensive.

    End of.
    I'd like you to show me the post again which persecuted you.


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