A Mere Mention of Abortion.

eviltwin

fatmammycat wrote: »

It's not silly to say that, I know a number of women who have had abortions, and don't regret them in any way shape or form. Two of them who went on to become mothers. The reality is abortion is different for every woman, but we should not judge them because of that.

Who is judging? I have had an abortion myself...I had a 12 yr old daughter at the time, the following year I had another baby.

I did my research beforehand, I went into it with my eyes open and I fell to bits after it, I didn't feel guilty or that I had made the wrong decision, I didn't regret it but the impact it had on me especially around what would have been my due date hit me for six made worse by the fact I couldn't exactly unburden myself to anyone.

I'm very much prochoice but it should be an informed choice of all the things that may / may not happen so then we can we be sure we are giving women all the facts. I think if I had known what to expect emotionally and had somewhere to go I would have saved myself a lot of pain.

fatmammycat

eviltwin wrote: »

Who is judging? I have had an abortion myself...I had a 12 yr old daughter at the time, the following year I had another baby.

I did my research beforehand, I went into it with my eyes open and I fell to bits after it, I didn't feel guilty or that I had made the wrong decision, I didn't regret it but the impact it had on me especially around what would have been my due date hit me for six made worse by the fact I couldn't exactly unburden myself to anyone.

I'm very much prochoice but it should be an informed choice of all the things that may / may not happen so then we can we be sure we are giving women all the facts. I think if I had known what to expect emotionally and had somewhere to go I would have saved myself a lot of pain.

I don't mean you were judging, I mean we, as a society. Nor would I dismiss what you went through, again I say for every woman the experience is different.

Kooli

eviltwin wrote: »

I would think there are very few women who don't have some issues afterwards. Not full blown depression perhaps but something. Its silly to say that having a baby or putting one up for adoption will have an impact but an abortion won't.

It's silly to say that an abortion will never lead to issues, but it's also silly to say it always will.

I would imagine that if abortion was legalised and the stigma was reduced, the aftermath would be a lot easier for a lot of women.
Obviously some women would still be massively affected because of their own difficulties with abortion, but there are probably a lot of women out there who don't have huge issues with abortion themselves but are impacted by the stigma and shame brought by the attitudes of others.

eviltwin

Kooli wrote: »

It's silly to say that an abortion will never lead to issues, but it's also silly to say it always will.

I would imagine that if abortion was legalised and the stigma was reduced, the aftermath would be a lot easier for a lot of women.
Obviously some women would still be massively affected because of their own difficulties with abortion, but there are probably a lot of women out there who don't have huge issues with abortion themselves but are impacted by the stigma and shame brought by the attitudes of others.

No I don't think it will for everyone but its something that has to be taken into consideration. Again though if it was legal we would have better pre abortion counselling in place so people wouldn't make quick decisions like they are often forced to do now.

chocolategirl

Hi all,

I've been following this thread with interest as abortion has become a huge isssue for me recently. Normally I wouldn't post but from the last few pages I've felt that I have to say something. I don't expect anyone to understand and I realise this isn't a place for me to pour out my own grief or guilt but I do just want to share and I understand totally any negative comments.

I've had four abortions. I'm 37 years of age.

I had my first abortion when I as 16. I was at the age when I took risks but thought I'd be ok however I became pregnant. For ages I refused to even believe I was pregnant. My sister had just had a baby and there was absolute murder going on in the house and my family were devastated. I couldn't see any othr way but to have an abortion for everyones sake. I found out how to make the arrangements and I went. I'd never even really been on a bus on my own before and I'd never been on a plane. I went on my own and I cried buckets. I bled so badly at the clinic that they thought they might not be able to let me out. At the airport I fainted and the flight was delayed 10 hours. My jeans were bloodstained. I was totally hysterical and an older couple looked after me. I was so scared of my parents finding out.

Afterwards I was devastated and I stayed that way until I had my son at 19. I became pregnant with him on purpose to combat the crippling grief I felt over losing my baby. To me it really was a loss even though I'd had an abortion.

Two years later I was on the pill and became pregnant. I was young and on my own with a small child so again I had to make the trip. I didn't feel I had any other choice. It was a horrible feeling of being trapped and very very scary.

Another three years later after being on the Depo Provera I became pregnant for a fourth time. I decided to give my body a break from the Depo and had just missed a shot by two weeks (I had not even had a period yet) and I became pregnant again. Again finding myself in the same situation I had another abortion, by now my third.

I'm not going into huge detail about how I felt on these last two occasions but upset, devastated, frightened and traumatised are some words. And of course hating myself and I'm a horrible murdering person. On these two occasions I had begged people for help, to let me stay with them or find me somewhere to stay so I could have these children and give them up for adoption but there was noone.

Many years later (well 13) I thought I'd put all that behind me. Of course looking back I dont' exactly like myself and in ways am glad that there's no abortion in Ireland because at least the trauma and upset of having to wait and be tormented has made me feel in some way better because I feel I should be suffering. Anyway I took a bit of a risk in Januray ( and yes I know with me being as fertile as I am, I shouldn't have) but I was worried the next day so went and got the morning after pill. It didn't work and I became pregnant. My job and my home are gone so I have absolutely nothing to offer a child and also I have a 17 year old boy who would be gutted if I suddenly became pregnant. I had another abortion. If I didn't have a child I would have killed myself.

I thought all this was behind me, I've been so careful for years and years and I thought taking the morning after pill was the wise thing to do. I absolutely hate myself. I love children and had hoped to meet someone and have a little girl, the dream you know, all the bad stuff beind me and being able to enjoy a pregnancy but no instead this absolute nightmare again. I havent' stopped shaking since the day I found out I was pregnant and I've had a few total breakdowns. I'm not trying to get sympathy by the way but maybe to say I'm not a total mental case, I haven't used abortion as contraception, I've been on contraception most of my life.

I'd hate me if I was reading this and I'd judge me. I can't believe this is me I'm talking about.

Giselle

chocolategirl wrote: »

Hi all,

I've been following this thread with interest as abortion has become a huge isssue for me recently. Normally I wouldn't post but from the last few pages I've felt that I have to say something. I don't expect anyone to understand and I realise this isn't a place for me to pour out my own grief or guilt but I do just want to share and I understand totally any negative comments.

I've had four abortions. I'm 37 years of age.

I had my first abortion when I as 16. I was at the age when I took risks but thought I'd be ok however I became pregnant. For ages I refused to even believe I was pregnant. My sister had just had a baby and there was absolute murder going on in the house and my family were devastated. I couldn't see any othr way but to have an abortion for everyones sake. I found out how to make the arrangements and I went. I'd never even really been on a bus on my own before and I'd never been on a plane. I went on my own and I cried buckets. I bled so badly at the clinic that they thought they might not be able to let me out. At the airport I fainted and the flight was delayed 10 hours. My jeans were bloodstained. I was totally hysterical and an older couple looked after me. I was so scared of my parents finding out.

Afterwards I was devastated and I stayed that way until I had my son at 19. I became pregnant with him on purpose to combat the crippling grief I felt over losing my baby. To me it really was a loss even though I'd had an abortion.

Two years later I was on the pill and became pregnant. I was young and on my own with a small child so again I had to make the trip. I didn't feel I had any other choice. It was a horrible feeling of being trapped and very very scary.

Another three years later after being on the Depo Provera I became pregnant for a fourth time. I decided to give my body a break from the Depo and had just missed a shot by two weeks (I had not even had a period yet) and I became pregnant again. Again finding myself in the same situation I had another abortion, by now my third.

I'm not going into huge detail about how I felt on these last two occasions but upset, devastated, frightened and traumatised are some words. And of course hating myself and I'm a horrible murdering person. On these two occasions I had begged people for help, to let me stay with them or find me somewhere to stay so I could have these children and give them up for adoption but there was noone.

Many years later (well 13) I thought I'd put all that behind me. Of course looking back I dont' exactly like myself and in ways am glad that there's no abortion in Ireland because at least the trauma and upset of having to wait and be tormented has made me feel in some way better because I feel I should be suffering. Anyway I took a bit of a risk in Januray ( and yes I know with me being as fertile as I am, I shouldn't have) but I was worried the next day so went and got the morning after pill. It didn't work and I became pregnant. My job and my home are gone so I have absolutely nothing to offer a child and also I have a 17 year old boy who would be gutted if I suddenly became pregnant. I had another abortion. If I didn't have a child I would have killed myself.

I thought all this was behind me, I've been so careful for years and years and I thought taking the morning after pill was the wise thing to do. I absolutely hate myself. I love children and had hoped to meet someone and have a little girl, the dream you know, all the bad stuff beind me and being able to enjoy a pregnancy but no instead this absolute nightmare again. I havent' stopped shaking since the day I found out I was pregnant and I've had a few total breakdowns. I'm not trying to get sympathy by the way but maybe to say I'm not a total mental case, I haven't used abortion as contraception, I've been on contraception most of my life.

I'd hate me if I was reading this and I'd judge me. I can't believe this is me I'm talking about.

Chocolategirl, there is nothing to gain at this point by hating yourself, and nothing to gain by continuing to feel this way. Please go to see your doctor and get help. Perhaps with counselling you can learn to be at peace with yourself and your decisions.

I wish the very best for you and your son, and truly hope you get some help in coping with this.

Daisy M

Chocolategirl I dont hate you and I dont think anyone could. You arer brave to write your story and I hope doing so helps you a little. I am sorry if my post regarding my friend who had 4 abortions upset you (or anyone else who may have read it). You give a different side to the story and have very well portrayed the anguish that a lot of women who have abortions hab=ve to live with. In hindsight this thread has me realise that I am more opposed to abortion because of the trauma many women go through when reaching the decision to have one and go through with having one, than I am about the unborn baby. If when my daughters are older and have an unwanted pregnancy and choose termination I will support them but my main worry will be of any long term repercussions they may have. My friend who had one abortion was terrified of ever becoming pregnant it affected her relationships and her judgement on if she ever wanted to have children.

chocolategirl

Thanks Giselle

Daisy M I certainly used look back on my 'old life' and think what an awful person I was 'back then'. I seriously didn't think abortion was anything I'd ever have to deal with again. I KNOW this time I had no choice, if there had been even one positive about my life I would have gone ahead with it. As it was I'd just been offered a new job and there was no way I could have taken it pregnant. I also had to think about the child I already have. He has alot of growing up issues and is doing his leaving. I'd love a baby, I adore children and know I'd be a much better mother now than when I was younger.

I discussed my decision with friends and with my sister and they all agreed that I didn't have a choice or a decision to make. I considered everyone and everything else before myself. There are many many factors in this. My heart is absolutely broken. Yes there are repercussions wth abortion but having had a child in my teens I look back and realise that it wasn't fair on him.

IsaMtq

I’m not sure exactly where I stand in the whole abortion debate. Can I be prolife and prochoice at the same time? I feel in my heart that there is something fundamentally wrong about abortion, yet there’s a whole other side to it, who knows what circumstances lead a person to make this decision, I wouldn’t stand in judgement of anyone who has gone through it, who would I be to do that, and who is anyone.

I think the more important thing is to try to reduce the need for it by preventing unwanted pregnancies before they happen. I know a lot of times these things just happen, but I’d say in the majority of cases its people being careless and alcohol playing a big factor. I’d prefer if it was just more ingrained in people to be super cautious to prevent them from having to make that decision.

IsaMtq

The length of time an abortion can be carried out now stands at 24 weeks, this is unbelievable really and definitely needs to be changed.

World's Smallest Baby: 21 weeks and six days
On October 24th 2006, Amillia Taylor was born at 21 weeks and six days. No baby born at less than 23 weeks gestation had ever survived, but 10 ounce Amillia was able to pull through (and even was trying to breath and cry on her own at birth). Hospitals had initially hoped to release her yesterday, but decided to keep the now healthy baby a few extra days for observation. Her mother doesn't mind the wait, she's just proud and happy that Amillia is healthy: "Even though she's only four pounds (1.8 kilos) now, she's plump to me."

Link

I am a friend

chocolategirl wrote: »

I'm not trying to get sympathy by the way but maybe to say I'm not a total mental case, I haven't used abortion as contraception, I've been on contraception most of my life.

I'd hate me if I was reading this and I'd judge me. I can't believe this is me I'm talking about.

Chocolategirl, you dont come across like you are looking for sympathy and you have opened my blinkered eyes with your post. my heart goes out to you and the hard decisions you have had to make. You made the decision on the basis of your life at each time and you did it with your family's interest at heart so please stop beating yourself up. Sending you good wishes xx

Naggins

It's not an easy decision for a woman/couple to make, so I wouldn't judge anyway. There should be better access to the morning after pill and actual sex education in schools, but I would like a better dialogue on this issue. Every EU referenda, we have the usual propaganda perpetuated by those against it (usually conservatives).

Ireland doesn't allow abortions in this country but people still travel to get them done, so why not allow abortions in this country?. People are forcing their beliefs if they don't give the **choice** for people, why not if people are going to get it done across the shore, they will do it. Few children are put up for adoption at the end of the day, are all of ye who are vehemently arguing against this tough decision willing to take in all these babies who would have been aborted? I don't think so.

I'm sick of the arguments peddled by those against the *choice* for it. Particularly on Facebook, I'm noticing a lot of inaccurate information and inconsiderate language peddled by those vehemently against it. Most of those arguing against it, I can't help noticing are middle aged men.

If your pro-life, I understand why but I don't like it when other people restrict what other people can do so I think the choice of it on this island should be there.

I realise this sounded like a rant, but it's a topic that many people have strong opinions on.

southsiderosie

IsaMtq wrote: »

The length of time an abortion can be carried out now stands at 24 weeks, this is unbelievable really and definitely needs to be changed.




Link

Did you read the posts on this earlier in the thread? The 24-week point has been reassessed, and given that the chances of survival under 24 weeks are very, very low, the cutoff point was left unchanged. The fact that ONE baby out of thousands survived at that age does not mean that the entire system should be changed.

hattoncracker

chocolategirl wrote: »

Hi all,

I've been following this thread with interest as abortion has become a huge isssue for me recently. Normally I wouldn't post but from the last few pages I've felt that I have to say something. I don't expect anyone to understand and I realise this isn't a place for me to pour out my own grief or guilt but I do just want to share and I understand totally any negative comments.

I've had four abortions. I'm 37 years of age.

I had my first abortion when I as 16. I was at the age when I took risks but thought I'd be ok however I became pregnant. For ages I refused to even believe I was pregnant. My sister had just had a baby and there was absolute murder going on in the house and my family were devastated. I couldn't see any othr way but to have an abortion for everyones sake. I found out how to make the arrangements and I went. I'd never even really been on a bus on my own before and I'd never been on a plane. I went on my own and I cried buckets. I bled so badly at the clinic that they thought they might not be able to let me out. At the airport I fainted and the flight was delayed 10 hours. My jeans were bloodstained. I was totally hysterical and an older couple looked after me. I was so scared of my parents finding out.

Afterwards I was devastated and I stayed that way until I had my son at 19. I became pregnant with him on purpose to combat the crippling grief I felt over losing my baby. To me it really was a loss even though I'd had an abortion.

Two years later I was on the pill and became pregnant. I was young and on my own with a small child so again I had to make the trip. I didn't feel I had any other choice. It was a horrible feeling of being trapped and very very scary.

Another three years later after being on the Depo Provera I became pregnant for a fourth time. I decided to give my body a break from the Depo and had just missed a shot by two weeks (I had not even had a period yet) and I became pregnant again. Again finding myself in the same situation I had another abortion, by now my third.

I'm not going into huge detail about how I felt on these last two occasions but upset, devastated, frightened and traumatised are some words. And of course hating myself and I'm a horrible murdering person. On these two occasions I had begged people for help, to let me stay with them or find me somewhere to stay so I could have these children and give them up for adoption but there was noone.

Many years later (well 13) I thought I'd put all that behind me. Of course looking back I dont' exactly like myself and in ways am glad that there's no abortion in Ireland because at least the trauma and upset of having to wait and be tormented has made me feel in some way better because I feel I should be suffering. Anyway I took a bit of a risk in Januray ( and yes I know with me being as fertile as I am, I shouldn't have) but I was worried the next day so went and got the morning after pill. It didn't work and I became pregnant. My job and my home are gone so I have absolutely nothing to offer a child and also I have a 17 year old boy who would be gutted if I suddenly became pregnant. I had another abortion. If I didn't have a child I would have killed myself.

I thought all this was behind me, I've been so careful for years and years and I thought taking the morning after pill was the wise thing to do. I absolutely hate myself. I love children and had hoped to meet someone and have a little girl, the dream you know, all the bad stuff beind me and being able to enjoy a pregnancy but no instead this absolute nightmare again. I havent' stopped shaking since the day I found out I was pregnant and I've had a few total breakdowns. I'm not trying to get sympathy by the way but maybe to say I'm not a total mental case, I haven't used abortion as contraception, I've been on contraception most of my life.

I'd hate me if I was reading this and I'd judge me. I can't believe this is me I'm talking about.

Chocolategirl, you don't have to feel bad, and please don't hate yourself, no one here does I can assure you. I'm in the recovery phase after one myself, and like you, nothing really hit me til the day I was due.
I have been having counselling, and the one thing I have learned is that I can't go back to the way I was before all this happened. I need to move forward, accept who I am and then learn to love myself again. It takes time and healing, but I know you can do it.

hattoncracker

Also, guys, while I may not have been brave enough to come out and say it in the first post on this thread, I did share my story on it, and the only reason I did is because of the women who were brave enough to share their stories.

If even one woman feels that reading these messages has helped them feel less alone, then it was worth it to me. Watching this thread, and hearing these women has helped me deal immensely with my own decision.

Thank you from the bottom of my heart, ladies.

chocolategirl

I am a friend wrote: »

Chocolategirl, you dont come across like you are looking for sympathy and you have opened my blinkered eyes with your post. my heart goes out to you and the hard decisions you have had to make. You made the decision on the basis of your life at each time and you did it with your family's interest at heart so please stop beating yourself up. Sending you good wishes xx

Thank you so much for your very kind words. I'm grieving at the moment which is really difficult because I don't have any right to grieve. I am though all the same.

I just wanted to tell my story as someone who has had more than one abortion. Four though, I'm so utterly ashamed and horrified.

I've read this thread and I think everyone has been amazing in it, extremely tolerant of each other and compassionate to others even when they personally would never have an abortion themselves. It makes a change from some raging debates.

howsyourtusk

But you shouldn't be ashamed. I don't judge you and there are so many people out there who don't. Take care

eviltwin

hattoncracker wrote: »

Also, guys, while I may not have been brave enough to come out and say it in the first post on this thread, I did share my story on it, and the only reason I did is because of the women who were brave enough to share their stories.

If even one woman feels that reading these messages has helped them feel less alone, then it was worth it to me. Watching this thread, and hearing these women has helped me deal immensely with my own decision.

Thank you from the bottom of my heart, ladies.

Couldn't have said it better myself. I find sharing my story helpful and I know reading the stories of others helps me too. It is so easy to feel alone when you have had an abortion so even just one story really reassures me that I am not some kind of monster, that bad things can happen to good people.

We made the best decisions we could at the time no should ever condemn us for that. An abortion is one day out of your life and that one day does not define you, you are so much more.

BDR

Amazing article in the Irish Times about peoples experiences of abortion if anyone wants to take a look.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/weekend/2012/0324/1224313801571.html

Morag

A lady called Marie who spoke to Ray Darcy about having to travel after being old the baby she was expecting had a rare condition which was ' not compatible with life'.

http://media.todayfm.com/podcast/61162/?uniqueID=37719

ziggy23

I couldn't go through with an abortion myself. I had an unplanned pregnancy myself but the thought never crossed my mind BUT I do believe everyone should have a choice and yes it should be legalised in this country. I never see the pro-lifers outside the GPO anymore has this been stopped? I remember being a kid and getting really upset walking by those pictures. Disgraceful:mad:

hattoncracker

Sharrow wrote: »

A lady called Marie who spoke to Ray Darcy about having to travel after being old the baby she was expecting had a rare condition which was ' not compatible with life'.

http://media.todayfm.com/podcast/61162/?uniqueID=37719

I was listening to this on the radio in work, I felt physically sick for the poor woman.. It's just such an awful experience, leaving everyone behind and having to travel to an unfamiliar area, when this experience is one of the hardest of your life as it is.

whitemocha

hattoncracker wrote: »

I was listening to this on the radio in work, I felt physically sick for the poor woman.. It's just such an awful experience, leaving everyone behind and having to travel to an unfamiliar area, when this experience is one of the hardest of your life as it is.

that was me and yes it was terrible but hopefully the law will change here i have written to 208 TD,s with my story and there will be a discussion in the Dail 18 19 of April.

I am so sorry for all of you that have been through this Ireland needs to change and every women given the choice.

chocolategirl

I totally agree whitemocha.

whitemocha

i know it wont be a full legal abortion country but a least its a start so hopefully this will be a start of changes to come.
Nobody should ever judge someone else unless they walk a mile in there shoes. And those of you concerned that abortion is a way of conterception is just riduclous it is the most traumatic heatbreakibg descion any women will ever make.
There is a petition if any of you would like to sign it is to legeslate the X bill which was passed 20 years ago but not passed.

Again so so sorry for all of you that have had to travel for the treament you needed

http://www.change.org/petitions/the-irish-government-legislate-for-the-x-case-before-the-end-of-2012#

chocolategirl

I don't know if anyone was watching the film Vera Drake last night on TG4. It portrayed brilliantly the utter despair of women who find themselves with a crisis pregnancy and no other way out.

hattoncracker

chocolategirl wrote: »

I don't know if anyone was watching the film Vera Drake last night on TG4. It portrayed brilliantly the utter despair of women who find themselves with a crisis pregnancy and no other way out.

I must actually watch that one, I've been meaning to.

Bambii_

I'm Pro-choice. I think abortion should be legalized in Ireland so the option is there for woman who want one. Personally I don't think I would be capable of having an abortion, but I wouldn't judge someone for having one. It's their choice and if they feel that having an abortion is the best for herself, then who am I to tell her she's wrong?

Bambii_

chocolategirl wrote: »

I don't know if anyone was watching the film Vera Drake last night on TG4. It portrayed brilliantly the utter despair of women who find themselves with a crisis pregnancy and no other way out.

It puts across the extent some people would go to just to do what they think is best for themselves. The film is emotionally moving and a work of art, in my opinion.

Tipsygypsy

Sharrow wrote: »

A lady called Marie who spoke to Ray Darcy about having to travel after being old the baby she was expecting had a rare condition which was ' not compatible with life'.

http://media.todayfm.com/podcast/61162/?uniqueID=37719[/QUOTE]


Following on from this storey, there is a facebook page set up to work towards making termination for medical reasons available in Ireland. Its at http://www.facebook.com/#!/MakeTerminationForMedicalReasonsAvailableInIreland



All support would be gratefully received.