can i put shoplifters on Youtube?

harrison fraud

The Mrs has a clothing shop in a small town in the country,long story short she copped on she got robbed,i looked back on the CCTV and have them recorded stuffing clothes down their knickers,and they are locals
Thing is would it come back to haunt me if i put them up on Youtube to embarrass them ?

Mushy

Leave it to the cops....firstly.

KeithM89_old

No

vard

I'd say go for it.

I can't think of any legal ramifications... are the scumbags going to contact the police and complain?

MiseryCat

harrison fraud wrote: »

The Mrs has a clothing shop in a small town in the country,long story short she copped on she got robbed,i looked back on the CCTV and have them recorded stuffing clothes down their knickers,and they are locals
Thing is would it come back to haunt me if i put them up on Youtube to embarrass them ?

**** that! :eek:Stick it on youtube to embarrass them,The cops won't do anything anyway .

Curva Sud

I think you should,expose the scumbags.

And then send me the link :pac:

MrStuffins

I'd not only put them on You tube, but i'd get screens and have it running in a loop all day in the shop (and in the shop window).

Temptamperu

only if there is a sign saying they are being recorded.

squod

Liveleak

Dr. Manhattan

Yes, please do show us all how easy it is to steal from your Mrs, for which the only penalty we will suffer is public exposure.

buyer95

In a word " Yes ." Its quite likely a load of board yobs will tell you no, but I have yet to see anybody in Ireland prosecuted for uploading a video to youtube, the worst thing that will happen is that it will get remove

Liam Byrne

I'd go with McStuffin's suggestion - if you have irrefutable proof that they are scumbag thieves, use it whatever way possible

Fromthetrees

WARNING

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TRbp0ZIehk0

Jesus Wept

People may be incorrectly identified which would be grossly unfair on them and lead to hassle for you, possibly.

Pottler

Best of all. if they are fit, you might get a few quid from all the views you get, what with knickers being visible and all that. I'd go for it, could be a profitable sideline. Unless they are munters, then, meh, yesterdays news. Anything goes on tinterned, just don't say they bunked it out of a taxi without paying...

KKkitty

Go for it. They had no respect in doing what they did so show them up for the scum they are.

MiseryCat

KKkitty wrote: »

Go for it. They had no respect in doing what they did so show them up for the scum they are.

:DI So Agree with this,I do Indeed:D

CrazyRabbit

I do not give you permission to post video footage of me.

Liam Byrne

CrazyRabbit wrote: »

I do not give you permission to post video footage of me.

I don't think anyone gave the scumbags any permission to steal stuff, so how come "permission" is a one-way issue ?

Super-Rush

Liam Byrne wrote: »

I don't think anyone gave the scumbags any permission to steal stuff, so how come "permission" is a one-way issue ?

Shoplifting is a victimless crime, like punching someone in the dark.

madma

don't put them on YouTube

Deal with it yourself, that's a sly thing to do

Sure look at that crap with that guy that was meant to have legged it on a taxi and he wasn't in the country at the time

KKkitty

MiseryCat wrote: »

KKkitty wrote: »

Go for it. They had no respect in doing what they did so show them up for the scum they are.

:DI So Agree with this,I do Indeed:D

Hope the cctv has a perfect picture so they can be seen clearly too so there's no mistaking who they are. It's a bad dog that will sh1t on their own doorstep.

leggo

Don't bother. This is the kind of uncharted territory that could end up landing you in a bit of trouble. You won't get locked up but is it even worth risking the Gardai knocking on your door and giving you a bollocking?

If you crossed the line, and again you're treading a thin line here so mightn't even realise what crossing it is, you could end up done for interfering with the course of justice and so on.

Not to mention have lads target your wife's shop as revenge...that's if your plan succeeds and these go viral!

Plus, at the very least, you'll just advertise techniques people can use to successfully shoplift making life difficult for traders like your wife. Thieves would love to knick ideas from other thieves.

As a retail security guard by day, I know the feeling of wanting revenge and to embarrass the scumbags, but don't do it this way trust me.

MrStuffins

madma wrote: »

don't put them on YouTube

Deal with it yourself, that's a sly thing to do

Sure look at that crap with that guy that was meant to have legged it on a taxi and he wasn't in the country at the time

Lol!

Yeah, you shouldn't be sly towards these people who stuffed your belongings into their knickers. Be up front with them and ask them to confess their sins to the local parish priest!

MrStuffins

leggo wrote: »

Don't bother. This is the kind of uncharted territory that could end up landing you in a bit of trouble. You won't get locked up but is it even worth risking the Gardai knocking on your door and giving you a bollocking?

I can't imagine they would be breaking any laws. If there are signs saying you're being monitored, what's the problem?

In almost every Spar I go into, there's a monitor showing live feed of the security camera as you walk in, If that's allowed, I can't imagine why showing a tape of your own CCTV footage would be. As long as you didn't personally name the people in the video!

The last thing the offender is gonna come in and do is say "Hey, I don't want you showing my image in that video anymore........... that's not me by the way!"

leggo

MrStuffins wrote: »

[I can't imagine they would be breaking any laws. If there are signs saying you're being monitored, what's the problem?

In almost every Spar I go into, there's a monitor showing live feed of the security camera as you walk in, If that's allowed, I can't imagine why showing a tape of your own CCTV footage would be. As long as you didn't personally name the people in the video!

The last thing the offender is gonna come in and do is say "Hey, I don't want you showing my image in that video anymore........... that's not me by the way!"

No but they will steal more stuff out of spite and deliberately target the shop, along with their mates.

The problem is that so many people regard law with a "well if that is legal, then this MUST be legal" attitude. That assumes that there is decent logic to Irish law, which there simply isn't a lot of the time!

I know of security firms that have gotten in serious trouble for sharing CCTV among themselves in private, that's illegal in itself, so broadcasting it online definitely is. And we are seeing more and more these days how the law is cracking down on online activity that it previously wouldn't have bothered with.

Like I said, it's asking for trouble and there are so many possible pitfalls from different avenues. Every day I hear people having ideas of how to find loopholes to 'get' thieves that just don't stand up to tough scrutiny. These kind of ideas are best just saying "aw I'd love to do this..." in the pub then doing it the right way instead, trust me.

LostCorkGuy

I would think that you could be sued for libel as you're accusing people of being theives even though they havent been brought to court yet , so I'd advise against it

MrStuffins

leggo wrote: »

No but they will steal more stuff out of spite and deliberately target the shop, along with their mates.

Lol! Sorry man but this is an incredibly wild presumption!

The problem is that so many people regard law with a "well if that is legal, then this MUST be legal" attitude. That assumes that there is decent logic to Irish law, which there simply isn't a lot of the time!

Well i've no reason to believe it is actually illegal to show your own CCTV footage inside your own store so...........

I know of security firms that have gotten in serious trouble for sharing CCTV among themselves in private, that's illegal in itself, so broadcasting it online definitely is. And we are seeing more and more these days how the law is cracking down on online activity that it previously wouldn't have bothered with.

What if you own the footage? I mean, if I hold up my iPhone and catch these dudes doing what they're doing, no big deal. But if it's on CCTV then it's illegal? I get where you're coming from but still!

Like I said, it's asking for trouble and there are so many possible pitfalls from different avenues. Every day I hear people having ideas of how to find loopholes to 'get' thieves that just don't stand up to tough scrutiny. These kind of ideas are best just saying "aw I'd love to do this..." in the pub then doing it the right way instead, trust me.

Well, "the right way" is following the legal processes of Irish Law, which you have already said holds no logic!

colly10

LostCorkGuy wrote: »

I would think that you could be sued for libel as you're accusing people of being theives even though they havent been brought to court yet , so I'd advise against it

He's not accusing them, he's just posting some footage of something that happened in the shop and it's up to the public to decide what they were doing.
If you post it up feel free to send on the link

MrStuffins

LostCorkGuy wrote: »

I would think that you could be sued for libel as you're accusing people of being theives even though they havent been brought to court yet , so I'd advise against it

How exactly would showing CCTV on You Tube consist of libel? Nobody has accused anyone in this scenario.

El Weirdo

Fromthetrees wrote: »

WARNING

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TRbp0ZIehk0

Exactly what I came in to post. Well, one that worked, anyway.

My name is URL

Go for it. Unless the perps were Roma or Irish nomads.. in which case it would be racist and an unrealistic portrayal of their culture.

Scumbag single mothers called Jacinta carrying a 'Bag for Life', though.. fair game.

leggo

Stuffins, this is what I do for a living...I have to train people about the in's and out's of this stuff on a day-to-day basis...why do you presume you know more than me? Sigh.

Shops are targeted on small issues such as staff giving 'cheek' to thieves (by approaching them and rightly spotting what they're up to)...it's not a stretch at all to say that if you attempt to identify and humiliate criminals on a grand scale they'll come after you out of spite. If they find out, I 100% guarantee that they will!

It's illegal for people to spread CCTV beyond those involved in the case, so say the store staff and legal authorities. People have a right to privacy and while the law allows leeway to identify those working outside its boundaries, it doesn't make it a free-for-all.

Why? Because it is also quite hard to prove theft using just CCTV, as you must also prove intent to deceive, so you are libelling them when they can simply claim they 'forgot' to pay and said footage does nothing to prove otherwise...even though everybody watching knows the score. If I falsely accuse someone of theft in my job and can't prove it beyond full doubt, they will be awarded thousands out of court. That happens on a daily basis (not with me, though, for the record )

Recording it on your iPhone is another uncharted territory that I suspect will be cracked down upon eventually. Don't assume that just because you've seen videos before and there were no charges brought against the recorders (that you know of) that it is legal or you won't trip yourself up somewhere along the line. Again, you're giving the law too much credit by applying sound logic towards it.

And the 'right way', however you or I may see it as arse backward, is STILL the law. So we must abide by it. Else what makes us different from those we're trying to shame except some Robin Hood-style sense of righteousness?

Like I said, I GET the frustration. I've been there, I feel it myself every day. But this is nothing more than a fun, but dumb, idea and should stay that way.

uberalles

Next time chase them up the road in your car and get your stuff back ! Oh wait .....

Thieves have rights too you know, probably more rights than you

oppenheimer1

Have we all forgotten the Monkstown Taxi debacle already?

Don't put those videos online, they will be more trouble than they're worth.

MrStuffins

leggo wrote: »

Stuffins, this is what I do for a living...I have to train people about the in's and out's of this stuff on a day-to-day basis...why do you presume you know more than me? Sigh.

Eh? Where di I presume I know more than you? Don't get your panties in a knot! I'm just having a discussion here! Little did I know of your prominant stature in the security community! Good man!

You haven't told us much of what you DO know in regards to this situation, just examples of similar situations. If this IS your job and you really do know the answers, then tell us what's illegal and what's not illegal and put the discussion to bed!

Shops are targeted on small issues such as staff giving 'cheek' to thieves (by approaching them and rightly spotting what they're up to)...it's not a stretch at all to say that if you attempt to identify and humiliate criminals on a grand scale they'll come after you out of spite. If they find out, I 100% guarantee that they will!

Well you said "they will" rather than "they might" without actually knowing anything about the shop or the people. In that way it was a bit of a leap I hope you can see.

It's illegal for people to spread CCTV beyond those involved in the case, so say the store staff and legal authorities. People have a right to privacy and while the law allows leeway to identify those working outside its boundaries, it doesn't make it a free-for-all.

My understanding is that CCTV falls under the data protection act. Now, speaking in real world terms here, if the subject of the CCTV was to make a complaint wouldn't that be admission of guilt of the crime being captured?

Again, you seem to be the expert here, it's your job after all so you tell me. I'm just having a discussion here!

Why? Because it is also quite hard to prove theft using just CCTV, as you must also prove intent to deceive, so you are libelling them when they can simply claim they 'forgot' to pay and said footage does nothing to prove otherwise...even though everybody watching knows the score. If I falsely accuse someone of theft in my job and can't prove it beyond full doubt, they will be awarded thousands out of court. That happens on a daily basis.

But you're not falsely accusing them are you? It's in plain sight (I presume) on CCTV. If it's as cut and ry as it sounds ("Forgot to pay" won't cut it when they're seen to have been stuffing them into their knickers)

And the 'right way', however you or I may see it as arse backward, is STILL the law. So we must abide by it. Else what makes us different from those we're trying to shame except some Robin Hood-style sense of righteousness?

I don't condone vigilanteism. What I DO condone is people standing up for themselves as long as it falls within the parameters of the law.

uck51js9zml2yt

leggo wrote: »

Stuffins, this is what I do for a living...I have to train people about the in's and out's of this stuff on a day-to-day basis...why do you presume you know more than me? Sigh.

Shops are targeted on small issues such as staff giving 'cheek' to thieves (by approaching them and rightly spotting what they're up to)...it's not a stretch at all to say that if you attempt to identify and humiliate criminals on a grand scale they'll come after you out of spite. If they find out, I 100% guarantee that they will!

It's illegal for people to spread CCTV beyond those involved in the case, so say the store staff and legal authorities. People have a right to privacy and while the law allows leeway to identify those working outside its boundaries, it doesn't make it a free-for-all.

Why? Because it is also quite hard to prove theft using just CCTV, as you must also prove intent to deceive, so you are libelling them when they can simply claim they 'forgot' to pay and said footage does nothing to prove otherwise...even though everybody watching knows the score. If I falsely accuse someone of theft in my job and can't prove it beyond full doubt, they will be awarded thousands out of court. That happens on a daily basis (not with me, though, for the record )

Recording it on your iPhone is another uncharted territory that I suspect will be cracked down upon eventually. Don't assume that just because you've seen videos before and there were no charges brought against the recorders (that you know of) that it is legal or you won't trip yourself up somewhere along the line. Again, you're giving the law too much credit by applying sound logic towards it.

And the 'right way', however you or I may see it as arse backward, is STILL the law. So we must abide by it. Else what makes us different from those we're trying to shame except some Robin Hood-style sense of righteousness?

Like I said, I GET the frustration. I've been there, I feel it myself every day. But this is nothing more than a fun, but dumb, idea and should stay that way.

There is also the copyright issue . They have not given you permission to use the images for public dissemination.

Give the cctv to the gardai .let them deal with it.
You can ban them from coming into the shop once youve a notice up.

leggo

Exactly, stand up to them by tackling them in the many ways that are available to retailers (especially clever ones). Improving their security systems in terms of laying out the store, tagging, employing dedicated security staff etc. There are a million ways to tackle it without getting yourself in a ****storm that pisses off both the thieves, Gardai, courts and also helps other thieves in the process! But it's great craic for AH readers...

The criminal wouldn't likely seek revenge by complaining to the authorities, I'm just pointing out the law breaks the OP would incur along the way. Once you put up a vid of someone calling them a 'shoplifter', and they haven't been convicted as such, you're law-abiding plan goes out the window. Meanwhile you've just pissed off a bunch of criminals while becoming one yourself.

I don't have any authority within the industry, I just work full-time in it, have done so for years and do quite a good job of I say so myself. I didn't mean to come across condascending, but I hear these ridiculous plans daily and there's always the same bad logic behind it from people who haven't spent a day working in the industry...so simply don't understand the MANY unwitting consequences they'd be setting themselves up for. So I apologise if it came across that way, but for god's sake listen to some sense. This plan is a disaster waiting to happen, simple as.

Though sometimes people have to make their own mistakes to learn from them, so by all means post the vids OP if you want and see how it goes. Just know that the plan will either fall flat or, if it works, you'll be ****ed. It's a lose-lose. But if it makes you feel better...

mcmoustache

Put up a sign in the shop saying:

"Videos of shoplifters will be uploaded to youtube. By shoplifting, shoplifters enter into a contract with the proprietor whereby they agree to transfer all ownership of intellectual property relating to said shoplifting to the proprietor."

LostCorkGuy

MrStuffins wrote: »

How exactly would showing CCTV on You Tube consist of libel? Nobody has accused anyone in this scenario.

The very wording of the OP , he said the shop was robbed and he has vidoes of them apparently putting clothing inside their pants , thats an accusation in my view

MrStuffins

LostCorkGuy wrote: »

The very wording of the OP , he said the shop was robbed and he has vidoes of them apparently putting clothing inside their pants , thats an accusation in my view

An accusation of what? Putting clothes inside their pants?

LostCorkGuy

MrStuffins wrote: »

An accusation of what? Putting clothes inside their pants?

Of criminal damage by leaving skid marks on what ever they stuffed down ,

harrison fraud

I have them clearly using a de-tagger and stuffing them inside their pants ,then buying other stock at the desk..so have close ups of their faces too

Thing is they are local and supposedly upstanding pillars of the community...three of them working as a team and probably doing the same to other businesses on the street...its hard enough as it is to stay afloat

I know if i do upload the video(i have it on my phone now)they will be the talk of the town..esp if i put it on the shops facebook page

bandit197

upload it or GTFO, 3 pages and no video...

Buffman

OP, have you tried your local Garda? Sounds like you have an easy case for them.

If they haven't been convicted then I wouldn't post anything yet as you may affect any future court action.

If they have been found guilty then post away.

oppenheimer1

harrison fraud wrote: »

I have them clearly using a de-tagger and stuffing them inside their pants ,then buying other stock at the desk..so have close ups of their faces too

Thing is they are local and supposedly upstanding pillars of the community...three of them working as a team and probably doing the same to other businesses on the street...its hard enough as it is to stay afloat

I know if i do upload the video(i have it on my phone now)they will be the talk of the town..esp if i put it on the shops facebook page

I call BS. You know who they are and have evidence of the crime, why not go to the guards?

Atlantis50

LostCorkGuy wrote: »

I would think that you could be sued for libel as you're accusing people of being theives even though they havent been brought to court yet , so I'd advise against it

Phrase the video "Alleged shoplifters..."

Atlantis50

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

I call BS. You know who they are and have evidence of the crime, why not go to the guards?

Can't the person do both?

The video could then be titled "Sought by the Garda for alleged shoplifting"

MrStuffins

Atlantis50 wrote: »

Phrase the video "Alleged shoplifters..."

Atlantis50 wrote: »

Can't the person do both?

The video could then be titled "Sought by the Garda for alleged shoplifting"

No need to use the word "shoplifting" at all. Just describe them as "clearly using a detagger and putting items doen their pants"....... which is what they're doing

harrison fraud

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

I call BS. You know who they are and have evidence of the crime, why not go to the guards?

No BS ill put the video up here in the morn....sure what will the guards do?...slap on the wrists is all they can do...

This way the fcukers will be labelled for life around here as thieves

nua domhan

There's this.......

http://www.scene.co.nz/292240a1.page (Bouncer in Altitude bar Queenstown debacle)

but then he was pissing off the queens goddaughters husband and the England rugby squad. And he probably shouldn;t have had access to the CCTV anyway.

I always thought that in a public area it was accepted that the assumption of the right to privacy was voided - cue actresses and upskirt shots in the streets.

Not sure how it would work on your own premises though - how do we get to see so much CCTV on crimewatch etc if its illegal to show without consent?

Anyway - I'll need to see the video to reserve judgement - if you wanna send it on to me in good faith i'll make sure it definately doesnt get on youtube!