*Ahem* slight rant

Davidius

I never did like the emotional reasons for rejecting the notion of a god. Things along the lines of "God was not there for me" or "God killed my dog" give fuel to eejits who want to say atheists are just angry at God.

Sure enough the amount of pain and suffering present is pretty indicative that any god that exists doesn't really care that much about your feelings. If there were such a supernatural entity I could still imagine it would see it as mostly inconsequential in the grand scale, especially with eternal life. It makes a lot more sense to reject the notion because it's unfounded and unmotivated.

HUNK

ScienceNerd wrote: »

Has anyone really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like?

You’ve got to be kidding me. I’ve been further even more decided to use even go need to do look more as anyone can. Can you really be far even as decided half as much to use go wish for that? My guess is that when one really been far even as decided once to use even go want, it is then that he has really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like.

It’s just common sense.

Sarky

I guess someone herped when they should have derped.

TeddyTedson

Meanwhile, back on topic!

Just to clarify my position. I don't believe in god myself. But who knows. The whole thing is too hard to even fathom. I sort of feel that having an opinion is the matter is a waste of time. All we can do is guess.
I realise I've really contradicted myself in this post but that's just how I roll :P

mooliki

TeddyTedson wrote: »

Meanwhile, back on topic!

Just to clarify my position. I don't believe in god myself. But who knows. The whole thing is too hard to even fathom. I sort of feel that having an opinion is the matter is a waste of time. All we can do is guess.
I realise I've really contradicted myself in this post but that's just how I roll :P

I wouldn't say there's anything negative about having an opinion on the subject. It's when you base that opinion on emotion and value it over others, that's when it becomes an issue. In which case, I'd suggest that someone not believing in a god purely because they feel neglected/offended/ashamed by it wouldn't be able to offer a valid argument on the subject.

In saying that, a major upheaval of a person's belief systems can easily be expected to stem from some emotional crisis. I'd think its generally with challenging experiences or personal reflection that a person might question their beliefs. The thing is then to follow up on that questioning through logic and education.

Doctor Jimbob wrote: »

That's an interesting way to look at it, although the obvious counter argument is sometimes humans do interfere with wildlife with positive results (wildlife reserves and the like).

Personally I wouldn't think wildlife reserves qualify as a positive interference. Though that says more about people's relationship to wildlife. In that it's generally considered good to not kill things. Surely that's just.....decent. I would struggle to think of a situation where humans have a "positive" interference with wildlife. I think at our best we might manage to undo a minor fraction of the harm we cause. For example, creating wildlife reserves so we don't drive a few more species into extinction. But that's a far cry from postive results. Just a lessening of the negative results. (end of mini rant!)

Hotblack Desiato

TeddyTedson wrote: »

The whole thing is too hard to even fathom.

That's what the theists want you to think...

Oranage2

TeddyTedson wrote: »

What pisses me off about some Atheists is that they seem to come to the conclusion of there being no god or super natural due to the fact that horrible things are allowed to happen in the world without any divine intervention.

To me it seems like a rebellion towards organised religion more than an individuals conclusion.

Anyone else agree?

Excuse the crass nature of my post.

Have to agree with ye Teddy, the people that believe this just dont understand God

Sarky

But you know why he sits back and allows obscene horrors happen to most of the world, right? You understand why it's ok for him to be the leading cause of abortions worldwide ever since a living creature could get pregnant? If you have explanations for why god acts exactly like utterly unmagical natural processes with no concern at all for what people actually believe, we'd love to hear them.

Are you one of those people who automatically skips over Concern ads without looking at them in case you see something?

Oranage2

I dont understand God really either but it's not God that does all the evil - it's man/woman, science/nature and greed that allows all the bad things happen.

MagicMarker

Oranage2 wrote: »

I dont understand God really either but it's not God that does all the evil - it's man/woman, science/nature and greed that allows all the bad things happen.

Well of course it's not god, god doesn't exist.

Ickle Magoo

So it's nature at fault? Not the omnipotent being you believe created nature exactly the way it exists....riiiiiiiggghhhht...

Oranage2

Ickle Magoo wrote: »

So it's nature at fault? Not the omnipotent being you believe created nature exactly the way it exists....riiiiiiiggghhhht...

Well congratulations you wiped the floor with an argument I didnt make -


But God did create nature and death is a part of nature. But greed isnt nature, greed is man made - But didnt God create man and greed, I hear you say?

Well yes he did but God gave us all these things and we have the choice to use them for good or bad. YOu can choose to use your hands for helping others or you can kill somebody with them.


Edit: I'm pretty much done with this forum it just isnt for me.

Ickle Magoo

Oranage2 wrote: »

YOu can choose to use your hands for helping others or you can kill somebody with them.

x100000000 for an omnipotent being then? Pity your god must have chosen the latter.

Rain for africa or kill billions? Create a stable world or one where tsunamis and earthquakes kill millions...hmmm....toughy....it's almost like...there isn't a god at all... :eek: :pac:

MagicMarker

Oranage2 wrote: »

Well congratulations you wiped the floor with an argument I didnt make -


But God did create nature and death is a part of nature. But greed isnt nature, greed is man made - But didnt God create man and greed, I hear you say?

Well yes he did but God gave us all these things and we have the choice to use them for good or bad. YOu can choose to use your hands for helping others or you can kill somebody with them.


Edit: I'm pretty much done with this forum it just isnt for me.

But god is omniscient, he knew before hand that people would be bad, so why not just make everyone good?

If god exists then he's the root cause of everything, including evil.

Oranage2

Ickle Magoo wrote: »

x100000000 for an omnipotent being then? Pity your god must have chosen the latter.

Rain for africa or kill billions? Create a stable world or one where tsunamis and earthquakes kill millions...hmmm....toughy....it's almost like...there isn't a god at all... :eek: :pac:

Well not really a 'toughy'. Over population is a real problem, if they didnt die then we'd all die and as Bono says "thank god its them instead of us", and billions dont die because of no rain either. I hope this has been educational for you.

King Mob

Oranage2 wrote: »

I dont understand God really either but it's not God that does all the evil - it's man/woman, science/nature and greed that allows all the bad things happen.

And so then when a parent leaves a baby out in a snow storm, it's not the parent to blame, it's the weather?

Ickle Magoo

Has the usual uncharitable wriggling and apologetic nonsense been educational? Unsurprisingly no...

MagicMarker

Oranage2 wrote: »

Well not really a 'toughy'. Over population is a real problem, if they didnt die then we'd all die and as Bono says "thank god its them instead of us", and billions dont die because of no rain either. I hope this has been educational for you.

What's population got to do with natural god made disasters?

Oranage2

MagicMarker wrote: »

What's population got to do with natural god made disasters?

It's similar to the Lotka–Volterra equation, basic predator - prey equation of when there's plenty of prey there's plenty of predators.

Human beings are on the top of the food chain so we have no predators so things like disease and man made disasters are introduced to stop our population spiraling out of control.

Delirium

Oranage2 wrote: »

Well congratulations you wiped the floor with an argument I didnt make -


But God did create nature and death is a part of nature. But greed isnt nature, greed is man made - But didnt God create man and greed, I hear you say?

Well yes he did but God gave us all these things and we have the choice to use them for good or bad. YOu can choose to use your hands for helping others or you can kill somebody with them.


Edit: I'm pretty much done with this forum it just isnt for me.

but we were made in God's image, or does that only apply when we do good things? Because God wouldn't murder the first-born of a city......

MagicMarker

Oranage2 wrote: »

It's similar to the Lotka–Volterra equation, basic predator - prey equation of when there's plenty of prey there's plenty of predators.

Human beings are on the top of the food chain so we have no predators so things like disease and man made disasters are introduced to stop our population spiraling out of control.

So god purposely murders people? Well that's an interesting theory...

Instead of killing people so we don't over populate, why didn't he just ensure that women could only have one child? Why didn't he just make the entire planet hospitable for humans instead of making it 2/3's water?

This god fellow doesn't sound too bright.

Ickle Magoo

I'm not sure if you are joking or you actually believe this stuff...

Do I have this right? An omnipotent being created the world; created a planet that takes lives and causes untold misery through natural disaster - and they did so in order to control a population that they, as an omnipotent super-being knew in advance and also as a being who is capable of creating our universe could surely control without making anyone suffer?

Niiice.

King Mob

Oranage2 wrote: »

It's similar to the Lotka–Volterra equation, basic predator - prey equation of when there's plenty of prey there's plenty of predators.

Human beings are on the top of the food chain so we have no predators so things like disease and man made disasters are introduced to stop our population spiraling out of control.

Except for the fact that neither disease or disasters have any long term effect on the size of human population. We've been growing exponentially in the last few thousand years and nothing short of a asteroid impact is going to slow that down.

But this ignores two things.
First that God chose such horrible, painful, evil ways to control population when there was so many other nicer ways to do it.
And second, that God made it so population control was necessary in the first place.

This God of yours is kinda stupid at long term planning.

MagicMarker

I wonder if god is a Fianna Fail member?

Sarky

Oranage2 wrote: »

Well not really a 'toughy'. Over population is a real problem, if they didnt die then we'd all die and as Bono says "thank god its them instead of us", and billions dont die because of no rain either. I hope this has been educational for you.

Do you realise how monstrous that sounds?

Oranage2

Sarky wrote: »

Do you realise how monstrous that sounds?

Indeed I do, but it's how I think the world works and well maybe the world doesn't work that way but these things do happen.

I do succumb to first world guilt but I get by by not thinking about it like many I guess and well monstrous it does sound but monstrous it is.

Sarky

And you're ok with your god being monstrous?

Oranage2

Just to clear a few things up here.

I amnt an official spokesman for God. I'm just giving my belief/opinion on the matter, I'm not a 'pusher' or pushing my beliefs on others here. I'm not here either to defend my faith.

King Mob

Oranage2 wrote: »

Just to clear a few things up here.

I amnt an official spokesman for God. I'm just giving my belief/opinion on the matter, I'm not a 'pusher' or pushing my beliefs on others here. I'm not here either to defend my faith.

So it does not bother you at all that you can't actually explain this despondency?

If you think God is monstrous, then he is not all-loving. So why call him God?

swampgas

Oranage2 wrote: »

Just to clear a few things up here.

I amnt an official spokesman for God. I'm just giving my belief/opinion on the matter, I'm not a 'pusher' or pushing my beliefs on others here. I'm not here either to defend my faith.

Your faith (as you have described it so far) doesn't sound very defensible. If you can't defend it, why do you believe it?