Sprinter Sacre

Huntey

I think the most exciting novice chaser since Azertyioup deserves his own thread. His novice achievements have arguably put him on the verge of superstar status already. Only yesterday he posted a RPR of 171, on the bridle, out of novice company, on his third chase start.

Plenty of nay sayers on here for weeks who have suggested he is all hype but greatness awaits with this horse and that will be confirmed when he wins the Arkle.



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HigginsJ

If i owned him i'd be so tempted to go for the Champion Chase. He destroyed a fair yard stick in French Opera yesterday.

I know he was getting weight but it was still so impressive. I know some people will stay stick to novice chasing as long as you can but with the horse in this form i think you have to go for the big one.

UrbanSea

I disagree.

I'm a fan of keeping novices to novice races at the Festival. He is only six, there is plenty of time for him to tackle the Champion Chase yet

finbarrk

Could he get the Gold Cup distance in a few years I wonder?

JimDeChamp

He made them look like handicappers yesterday.. To me he's streets ahead of the other novices out their. If I owned him I'd let him take his place in the arkle, I wouldn't get carried away with myself and run him in the champion, but in saying that I stil don't think theirs anything to beat him in the champion...!

JimDeChamp

Yesterday he looked like 2mile 4 wouldnt be a problem, so I don't see why in time he wouldn't be a gold cup horse...!

HigginsJ

My reasoning behind the Champion Chase is that you never know what will happen with a horse. He could get injured or not be in form come 12 months for the champion.

Ordinarily i'd stick novices to novices but after yesterday it has to be a thought in the owners/trainers mind.

Goldcupfav

Horse hardly deserves his own thread. Would have been a much better idea to start an Arkle thread imo.

Huntey

Goldcupfav wrote: »

Would have been a much better idea to start an Arkle thread imo.

Start one so.

the groutch

HigginsJ wrote: »

If i owned him i'd be so tempted to go for the Champion Chase.

Two words: Gloria Victis

RichieLawlor

Taking on Sizing Europe and co on only his 4th chase run is a dangerous thing. They will be going a lot faster down that hill than he has ever been before and many a novice has ended up on the deck.

More experience needed before he steps up there

ft9

class. just class

prettyboy81

Looks like the Arkle winner no doubt but you never know in racing & has tough opposition in Al Ferof on the day both turn up fit & well.

No point going for Champion Chase IMO he would not beat Sizing Europe this season with the form SE has showed us this year!

The festival cannot start quick enough....going to be possibly three short priced & possible odds on favs starting the 1st day Hurricane Fly, Sprinter Sacre & Quevega!

premierstone

the groutch wrote: »

Two words: Gloria Victis

Captain Christy, Make a stand, Hors la loi and im sure a hatfull others I cant remember off the top of my head, and incidently Gloria Victis's demise had absolutley nothing to do with being a novice, he was injured prior to the fall according to McCoy and would have suffered the same fate regardless.

premierstone

Goldcupfav wrote: »

Horse hardly deserves his own thread. Would have been a much better idea to start an Arkle thread imo.

Disagree, he is the most exciting Novice I have seen and I dont say that lightly, I cant find fault tbh, he seems to have it all slight question mark of whether he will come up hill after last year, but tbh he might not need to come off the bridle, I have never been so happy about a 5/2 docket this far in advance!

Huntey

premierstone wrote: »

Disagree, he is the most exciting Novice I have seen and I dont say that lightly, I cant find fault tbh, he seems to have it all slight question mark of whether he will come up hill after last year, but tbh he might not need to come off the bridle, I have never been so happy about a 5/2 docket this far in advance!

You weren't so happy the other day when you were talking up Peddler's Cross to the high heavens saying he has a very realistic chance to turn the form at Cheltenham and he could justify favouritism for the Arkle.

premierstone

Huntey wrote: »

You weren't so happy the other day when you were talking up Peddler's Cross to the high heavens saying he has a very realistic chance to turn the form at Cheltenham and he could justify favouritism for the Arkle.

Again you fail at basic reading skills I repeatedly stated it was my opinion that Sprinter Sacre would win but that it wasnt beyond the realms of possibility that Peddlers Cross could be backed on the day, its rather simple I wish you could keep up

Huntey

premierstone wrote: »

Again you fail at basic reading skills I repeatedly stated it was my opinion that Sprinter Sacre would win but that it wasnt beyond the realms of possibility that Peddlers Cross could be backed on the day, its rather simple I wish you could keep up

Simple is an apt term. Most people saw your comments so no point disguising anything at this stage.

I have no time for idiocy though so I'll be leaving it there.

premierstone

Huntey wrote: »

Simple is an apt term. Most people saw your comments so no point disguising anything at this stage.

I have no time for idiocy though so I'll be leaving it there.

Yes most people saw my comments and were, unlike yourself, able to comprehend them. I am not disguising anyhting you are the one who brought it up???

If you have no time for idiocy, I suggest you dont spend too much time in your own company

ste2010

premierstone wrote: »

Huntey wrote: »

Simple is an apt term. Most people saw your comments so no point disguising anything at this stage.

I have no time for idiocy though so I'll be leaving it there.

Yes most people saw my comments and were, unlike yourself, able to comprehend them. I am not disguising anyhting you are the one who brought it up???

If you have no time for idiocy, I suggest you dont spend too much time in your own company

Huntey..you love a good argument :-)

Peddlers I think will run better than his lat day out and to be honest I was thinking along the same lines before the weekend. It's hard to see sprinter sacre been beaten after the weekend..also after seeing Nicky h's interview on ATR yesterday it says it all..he used the word "scary" to highlight how good he is

newuser89

French opera was 6 lengths away giving sprinter sacre 5 pounds on his seasonal debut.
Just putting it out there and I know he could have won as he liked was impressive to watch anyway.
I think Peddlers will give him a race at cheltenham anyway as I rate him better than sprinter sacres rivals from the last day.
Hes justified favouritism now that's for sure

HigginsJ

Confirmed he wont be going for the CC. Pity

http://www.rte.ie/sport/racing/2012/0219/alferof_sprintersacre.html

mdwexford

Sensible decision although it would have made the CC a hell of a lot more interesting.

Looks special and will absolutely mangle them in the Arkle providing he gets round safely.

finbarrk

mdwexford wrote: »

Sensible decision although it would have made the CC a hell of a lot more interesting.

Looks special and will absolutely mangle them in the Arkle providing he gets round safely.

Agree with you Wexford. That's the accum bet sorted. Are you going this year? If so I'll have a pint with you on Tue or Wendsday.

hucklebuck

mdwexford wrote: »

Sensible decision although it would have made the CC a hell of a lot more interesting.

And would have put nearly every ante post bet I have in danger. :eek:

TheMilkyPirate

newuser89 wrote: »

French opera was 6 lengths away giving sprinter sacre 5 pounds on his seasonal debut.
Just putting it out there and I know he could have won as he liked

Exactly, So it doesn't matter how far away French opera was at the end. BG took a pull on him if my eyes didn't decieve me less than a furlong out.

mdwexford

finbarrk wrote: »

Agree with you Wexford. That's the accum bet sorted. Are you going this year? If so I'll have a pint with you on Tue or Wendsday.

Afraid not, wish I was.

RichieLawlor

Interesting that Timeform still rate Al Ferof higher than Sprinter Sacre

mdwexford

RichieLawlor wrote: »

Interesting that Timeform still rate Al Ferof higher than Sprinter Sacre

Lol that Al Ferof run is hugely overrated.
He never looked like winning, will be in handicaps next season.

SS is the Champion Chaser elect.

Huntley

Scaring them off before they even line up.

Long live the machine.

Ice87

mdwexford wrote: »

RichieLawlor wrote: »

Interesting that Timeform still rate Al Ferof higher than Sprinter Sacre

Lol that Al Ferof run is hugely overrated.
He never looked like winning, will be in handicaps next season.

SS is the Champion Chaser elect.

Loving the hype about this horse. It's funny how people discount Al ferofs chances when he put in a good run against anything better then SS has run against.

Didn't back him last year but loved how he bombed up the hill.

I can see ruby going for this a long way out.

Should be a great race

Huntley

Ice87 wrote: »

It's funny how people discount Al ferofs chances when he put in a good run against anything better then SS has run against.

Al Ferof ran against better opposition but he didn't beat them. He finished ahead of Forpadydeplasterer who is rated lower than French Opera. A line through I'm So Lucky has them on similar enough terms, the difference being that Sprinter Sacre did it on the bridle while Al Ferof was all out.

I must also refer to Al Ferof's abysmal top speed rating of 132. He simply isn't quick enough for two miles.

Ice87 wrote: »

I can see ruby going for this a long way out.

He will be rowing away a long way out just to keep up.

For Al Ferof to win this he would literally need the horses in front to stop to a light canter going up the hill. This isn't the Supreme where he will be running on past immature horses.

ft9

Huntley, do you think Sprinter Sacre has much in him off the bridal?

Huntley

ft9 wrote: »

Huntley, do you think Sprinter Sacre has much in him off the bridal?

He doesn't seem like the horse that will kick on again like SE does but I don't think he will completely empty either. He has such a high cruising speed that he will have them all at it before he needs to go to the locker himself.

ft9

I just can't wait for the Arkle. I'm hoping he blows them away, not for the money I will win, but for knowing another superstar has arrived.

Segal said he'l win by a fence. Certainly looks a different class. All will be revealed next week.

RichieLawlor

Ascot, Ayr, Ascot, Ffos Las, Ascot, Cheltenham, Doncaster, Kempton, Newbury.

List of SS racecourse appearances.

Won 7, beaten 2.

Beaten at Cheltenham and Ascot, also only staggered home at Ascot on his debut.

Combined 70l winning distances at other tracks.

The difference, Ascot and Cheltenham are stiff tracks, the rest are flat as a pancake.

Huntley

RichieLawlor wrote: »

Ascot, Ayr, Ascot, Ffos Las, Ascot, Cheltenham, Doncaster, Kempton, Newbury.

List of SS racecourse appearances.

Won 7, beaten 2.

Beaten at Cheltenham and Ascot, also only staggered home at Ascot on his debut.

Combined 70l winning distances at other tracks.

The difference, Ascot and Cheltenham are stiff tracks, the rest are flat as a pancake.

I'm not discarding your angle here but you have left out some key variables.

The race he lost at Ascot was over 2m 4f. He never ran over that distance before and hasn't since. He also pulled very hard at the start.

He won at Ascot two starts later over 2 miles when giving weight all around. He was keen throughout, pulled himself to the front with about 6f to run and sluiced up on the bridle.

The difference, one was in a class 3 novice over 2m 4f and one was over 2m in a class 2 contest when he gave a minimum of 5lbs to the field. Taking account of this it would be a fairly plausible theory that he just didn't get home over 2m 4f.

Ice87

Huntley wrote: »

Al Ferof ran against better opposition but he didn't beat them. He finished ahead of Forpadydeplasterer who is rated lower than French Opera. A line through I'm So Lucky has them on similar enough terms, the difference being that Sprinter Sacre did it on the bridle while Al Ferof was all out.

I must also refer to Al Ferof's abysmal top speed rating of 132. He simply isn't quick enough for two miles.



He will be rowing away a long way out just to keep up.

For Al Ferof to win this he would literally need the horses in front to stop to a light canter going up the hill. This isn't the Supreme where he will be running on past immature horses.

It seems that you are trying to convince yourself more than anything else that SS is a sure thing and Al ferof won't be able to touch it. If he's not off the bridle within this race I'll eat my hat.

I hope he turns out to be as good as the hype which surrounds him but I think this track if anything else could be the doing of him.

It doesn't matter what French Opera is rated. Forpaddy ran a great race that day and still finished 6 lengths behind Al Ferof.

If we were to go by the I'm So Lucky form in previous races you would say both horses are fairly equal would you not?

Look at previous races, you could say Sizing Europe had arguably better form leading up to his Arkle victory and he was 6/1 to win it.

Maybe it is a very poor arkle but the odds don't seem to reward the risk at the moment.

mdwexford

Ice87 wrote: »

It seems that you are trying to convince yourself more than anything else that SS is a sure thing and Al ferof won't be able to touch it. If he's not off the bridle within this race I'll eat my hat.

I hope he turns out to be as good as the hype which surrounds him but I think this track if anything else could be the doing of him.

It doesn't matter what French Opera is rated. Forpaddy ran a great race that day and still finished 6 lengths behind Al Ferof.

If we were to go by the I'm So Lucky form in previous races you would say both horses are fairly equal would you not?

Look at previous races, you could say Sizing Europe had arguably better form leading up to his Arkle victory and he was 6/1 to win it.

Maybe it is a very poor arkle but the odds don't seem to reward the risk at the moment.

So much wrong in this post I dont know where to start.

Huntley

Ice87 wrote: »

It seems that you are trying to convince yourself more than anything else that SS is a sure thing and Al ferof won't be able to touch it.

I don't need any convincing at this stage.

All of the following are the facts which I stated;

Huntley wrote: »

Al Ferof ran against better opposition but he didn't beat them. He finished ahead of Forpadydeplasterer who is rated lower than French Opera. A line through I'm So Lucky has them on similar enough terms, the difference being that Sprinter Sacre did it on the bridle while Al Ferof was all out.

I must also refer to Al Ferof's abysmal top speed rating of 132.

From the above facts I derived the following opinion;

Huntley wrote: »

He simply isn't quick enough for two miles.

He will be rowing away a long way out just to keep up.

For Al Ferof to win this he would literally need the horses in front to stop to a light canter going up the hill. This isn't the Supreme where he will be running on past immature horses.

If you disagree with my above angle on Al Ferof then please specify where you think I may have misjudged the horse. I would also be interested to hear your own angle on Al Ferof and where his edge is in this race.

hucklebuck

Ice87 wrote: »

Forpaddy

How do you rate Roi Du Mee? :pac:

RichieLawlor

Huntley wrote: »

This isn't the Supreme where he will be running on past immature horses.

Btw this isnt true. The horses in front were not exactly stopping and he finished like a train past them.

Al Ferof is in the mould of My Way De Solzen, Tidal Bay and Captain Chris, in that stamina isnt a bad thing in an arkle which is ran at a breakneck pace

Ice87

Great contribution MD, your obviously getting sweaty at the thought that there is a possibility that SS could get turned over..:cool:

SS obviously has better attributes this is without doubt. Jumps better and was extremely quick in his last race. Is this enough to make me confident in backing him at 11/10 like a lot of people are doing?

In my opinion the fact that Al Ferof has faced better opposition and competed with them, which will stand to him. Cheltenham form with Ruby on board are all pluses.

He might possibly be rowing away but most horses do in this race.

I'm looking forward to what SS finds anyway.

Huntley

RichieLawlor wrote: »

Btw this isnt true. The horses in front were not exactly stopping and he finished like a train past them.

The three leaders eased away from Al Ferof turning for home and he didn't start to make ground until the incline. I think it was more a case of the three in front slowing rather than Al Ferof finding another gear.

RichieLawlor wrote: »

Al Ferof is in the mould of My Way De Solzen, Tidal Bay and Captain Chris, in that stamina isnt a bad thing in an arkle which is ran at a breakneck pace

The staying theory becomes far less of an issue when there is a genuine two miler in the race. Even if you look at the first five home behind My Way De Solzen, Tidal Bay and Captain Chris the majority wanted 2½+ miles.

mdwexford

RichieLawlor wrote: »

Btw this isnt true. The horses in front were not exactly stopping and he finished like a train past them.

Al Ferof is in the mould of My Way De Solzen, Tidal Bay and Captain Chris, in that stamina isnt a bad thing in an arkle which is ran at a breakneck pace

Three pigs, this guy is a superstar.

Al Ferof faced ok opposition and never looked like winning that race.

If Sprinter Sacre was running against Somersby and Finian's Rainbow tomorrow id expect him to make mincemeat out of them.

hucklebuck

ft9 wrote: »

I just can't wait for the Arkle. I'm hoping he blows them away, not for the money I will win, but for knowing another superstar has arrived.

I hope so too, we need a couple of stunning performances from younger horses, hoping Sprinter Sacre and Midnight Game get the show on the road by bolting in...

mdwexford

We definitely do with Denman retired, Master Minded probably gone, Kauto 12, Sizing Europe and Big Zeb wrong side of 10, even Big Bucks is 9 now.

Need some more superstars to emerge this year.

hucklebuck

Agreed MD, I had to double take there, I started composing very similar and got distracted...

I really don't understand all the money for Al Ferof, Cue Card will finish ahead of him and so will Menorah if he puts in a decent round of jumping.

jimjamcos

Was at a preview night in Dublin City centre tonight. Geraghty was on the panel. Basically said if he sits on him and settles him from the start he wins! Rest of the panel (including Don McClean and Gary O'Brien) then came to the conclusion that there was nothing else to say after that. They all agreed the horse's a winner.

UrbanSea

I was there too jimjam. Thought they seemed a bit naive. They said that if he sat on the horse he won, even the most novice of punters no there is no such thing as a cert

UrbanSea

UrbanSea wrote: »

..........., even the most novice of punters no there is no such thing as a cert

Indeed, I think he has a huge chance, I don't think evens is the wrong price though, the fences much be jumped etc etc.