Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

DoE testing - The Last Word

Options
145791029

Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 176 ✭✭Pjwal


    Macspower wrote:
    I'm sure common sense can prevail here with the testing centre.. I know with my Subaru Impreza when it comes NCT time I ask them not to test it on the rolling road as it only does one axle at a time and it could wind the diff...

    there is never a problem and they generally just test the brakes in the yard instead.

    I'm sure the VTN centre would same common sense in this situation

    I am afraid that doesn't reall sort the prob either.
    The decelarometer test can only be conducted on vehicles which are constant 4 wheel drive. And during that test, the brakes are tested from driving and the effency is calculated by a gauge that is sitting on the floor. So that also goes against alko's recommendations.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 12,811 ✭✭✭✭Slidey


    The decelerometer can be used on any vehicle, 4x4 or not.


  • Registered Users Posts: 176 ✭✭Pjwal


    Slidey wrote:
    The decelerometer can be used on any vehicle, 4x4 or not.


    No it can't. Only on constant 4 wheel drive vehicles. Check it out with rsa or local council autheriseing office.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,993 ✭✭✭spaceHopper


    Well DOE done, FAILED ! All small things
    The chassis number has a typo in the log book, have to go to the tax office
    The front head light is not working on high beams, there's a fault could be bulb or bad ground I'll fix it my self, They need to be focused to.
    The tip of the exhaust it rusted, can get my Brother in Law to weld it.

    Have to go back within 21 days for a visual!


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,049 ✭✭✭niloc1951


    Pjwal wrote: »
    ....................many people have been testing thier campers for the past 2 or years and if they had to be tested on the heavy lane, the brakes were tested against the gvw and not the presented weight and all axles would have been tied down....................
    .....................which is one of the reasons I chose not to have mine tested, apart from the fact that there was no legal requirement to do so.

    It's only academic now as 'tying down' is not required for motor caravans even those over 3,500 kg GVW as per Circular RSA VI 02/12.

    See the attach file for confirmation of Alko position regarding attachments and the consequence of attaching anything not approved by them to their product, the caution makes no exception even for 'temporary' attachments.

    I would suggest that any motor caravan owner who's vehicle has an Alko chassis, is over 3,500kg GVW and subjected it to a road worthiness test pre 01/03/2012 should perhaps have its chassis inspected by a qualified to inspect Alko chassis.


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 44,080 ✭✭✭✭Micky Dolenz


    Well DOE done, FAILED ! All small things
    The chassis number has a typo in the log book, have to go to the tax office
    The front head light is not working on high beams, there's a fault could be bulb or bad ground I'll fix it my self, They need to be focused to.
    The tip of the exhaust it rusted, can get my Brother in Law to weld it.

    Have to go back within 21 days for a visual!

    Nice one.

    To to clarify, I book it in with a doe centre and not a nct centre?


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,993 ✭✭✭spaceHopper


    Well DOE done, FAILED ! All small things
    The chassis number has a typo in the log book, have to go to the tax office
    The front head light is not working on high beams, there's a fault could be bulb or bad ground I'll fix it my self, They need to be focused to.
    The tip of the exhaust it rusted, can get my Brother in Law to weld it.

    Have to go back within 21 days for a visual!

    Nice one.

    To to clarify, I book it in with a doe centre and not a nct centre?
    Yes you go to any vtn and not nct just Google doe test and your town


  • Registered Users Posts: 44,080 ✭✭✭✭Micky Dolenz


    Yes you go to any vtn and not nct just Google doe test and your town

    Thanks. I'll bring it back to the place I got my engineers report last season. They do all our commercial vehicles too, hopefully theyll go handy on the ould lady :p


  • Registered Users Posts: 176 ✭✭Pjwal


    niloc1951 wrote: »
    .....................which is one of the reasons I chose not to have mine tested, apart from the fact that there was no legal requirement to do so.

    It's only academic now as 'tying down' is not required for motor caravans even those over 3,500 kg GVW as per Circular RSA VI 02/12.

    See the attach file for confirmation of Alko position regarding attachments and the consequence of attaching anything not approved by them to their product, the caution makes no exception even for 'temporary' attachments.

    I would suggest that any motor caravan owner who's vehicle has an Alko chassis, is over 3,500kg GVW and subjected it to a road worthiness test pre 01/03/2012 should perhaps have its chassis inspected by a qualified to inspect Alko chassis.


    i have never had a problem beliveing what you said, but your question was how/what method was used to test the park brake and i answered that. its not me you need to be argueing with, its the people in charge of makeing the rules as to how the tests are conducted. how ever i brought your concerns to somebody closer to the top then myself and explainedwhat you said was contained in the alko manual, to which he answered that he would get it looked into, but that answers to questions that may require a change from standard practice can be slow, and intil we are told otherwise, to continue testing according to the guidelines already in place. and if you as an owner dont want your vehice tested in this manner, then your vehicle can not be tested until a resolution has been reached.
    i recommend that you call the rsa in loughrea, and look for sean breathneach who is the rsa chief engineer, because as of yet, i am the only person who has brought this to thier attention and they need to hear it many times to get them to act.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,049 ✭✭✭niloc1951


    Pjwal wrote: »
    i have never had a problem beliveing what you said, but your question was how/what method was used to test the park brake and i answered that. its not me you need to be argueing with, its the people in charge of makeing the rules as to how the tests are conducted. how ever i brought your concerns to somebody closer to the top then myself and explainedwhat you said was contained in the alko manual, to which he answered that he would get it looked into, but that answers to questions that may require a change from standard practice can be slow, and intil we are told otherwise, to continue testing according to the guidelines already in place. and if you as an owner dont want your vehice tested in this manner, then your vehicle can not be tested until a resolution has been reached.
    i recommend that you call the rsa in loughrea, and look for sean breathneach who is the rsa chief engineer, because as of yet, i am the only person who has brought this to thier attention and they need to hear it many times to get them to act.

    Please read my post again. Particularly the part referring to Circular RSA VI 02/12 and the direction contained therein and in particular, Testing of Motor Caravans over 3,500 kgs Design Gross Vehicle Weight, items 37 & 39 "Motor Caravan.........brake performance must be calculated using the vehicle weight presented and the axle load simulator need not be used"
    My understanding of the plain English is that this 'tying down' is not to be carried out for motor caravans of any weight


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 176 ✭✭Pjwal


    niloc1951 wrote: »
    Pjwal wrote:
    i have never had a problem beliveing what you said, but your question was how/what method was used to test the park brake and i answered that. its not me you need to be argueing with, its the people in charge of makeing the rules as to how the tests are conducted. how ever i brought your concerns to somebody closer to the top then myself and explainedwhat you said was contained in the alko manual, to which he answered that he would get it looked into, but that answers to questions that may require a change from standard practice can be slow, and intil we are told otherwise, to continue testing according to the guidelines already in place. and if you as an owner dont want your vehice tested in this manner, then your vehicle can not be tested until a resolution has been reached.
    i recommend that you call the rsa in loughrea, and look for sean breathneach who is the rsa chief engineer, because as of yet, i am the only person who has brought this to thier attention and they need to hear it many times to get them to act.

    Please read my post again. Particularly the part referring to Circular RSA VI 02/12 and the direction contained therein and in particular, Testing of Motor Caravans over 3,500 kgs Design Gross Vehicle Weight, items 37 & 39 "Motor Caravan.........brake performance must be calculated using the vehicle weight presented and the axle load simulator need not be used"
    My understanding of the plain English is that this 'tying down' is not to be carried out for motor caravans of any weight


    Please read all my posts again, but slower. You are correct on that point. And I have never clamed otherwise. But that is only the case sence 1st of febuary. Which is only 9 days ago. Previous to this date, campers tested as a hgv had thier brakes tested against thier gvw, for which they had to be tied down. I v tried to helpfull to you, I tried to be helpfull to you and put forward your worries to the people in charge, but I am not going to bother any more as you seem to have a very forcefull opinion and your not willing to accept any information that's different to what you want to hear.


  • Registered Users Posts: 115 ✭✭Morgan The Moon


    niloc1951 wrote: »
    Please read my post again. Particularly the part referring to Circular RSA VI 02/12 and the direction contained therein and in particular, Testing of Motor Caravans over 3,500 kgs Design Gross Vehicle Weight, items 37 & 39 "Motor Caravan.........brake performance must be calculated using the vehicle weight presented and the axle load simulator need not be used"
    My understanding of the plain English is that this 'tying down' is not to be carried out for motor caravans of any weight

    It would appear that my original question has sparked the debate that was desired. Your understanding of the Alko chassis braking system is correct. The other contributor although trying to be informative is missing the point. The RSA are responsible for informing themselves and their agent to carry the Eu regulations as prescribed. Inform themselves contact Alko or any reputable German test centre to learn how to do it properly. I consider there are hundreds of Motorhomes on the Irish roads with Alko chassis, to my knowledge there purports to be at least three Motorhome clubs, where were they when interested parties had a chance to have there say?


  • Registered Users Posts: 176 ✭✭Pjwal


    niloc1951 wrote: »
    Please read my post again. Particularly the part referring to Circular RSA VI 02/12 and the direction contained therein and in particular, Testing of Motor Caravans over 3,500 kgs Design Gross Vehicle Weight, items 37 & 39 "Motor Caravan.........brake performance must be calculated using the vehicle weight presented and the axle load simulator need not be used"
    My understanding of the plain English is that this 'tying down' is not to be carried out for motor caravans of any weight

    It would appear that my original question has sparked the debate that was desired. Your understanding of the Alko chassis braking system is correct. The other contributor although trying to be informative is missing the point. The RSA are responsible for informing themselves and their agent to carry the Eu regulations as prescribed. Inform themselves contact Alko or any reputable German test centre to learn how to do it properly. I consider there are hundreds of Motorhomes on the Irish roads with Alko chassis, to my knowledge there purports to be at least three Motorhome clubs, where were they when interested parties had a chance to have there say?


    That is all quite fair, and I do agree that the current system may not suitable for the alko axle which is why I contacted my autheriseing officer in the council and the rsa inspector in charge of our area. But I do believe your original question was how is park currently been tested, and not how should they be tested.
    And also your comment about people having thier say with the rsa prior to the testing of campers been introduced makes complete sence. But unfortunatly the rsa don't listen or consult or seek an input from anybody, when ever something new is introduced they rush in and make the rules and after the faults in thier system has been found they end up having to back track and change rule even tho thier original instructions would already have cost some vehicle owners considerable amounts of money, it has happened many times priviously. A number of other questionable problems to do with camper testing are also croping up.I.e. Axle weights on the base vehicle been raised by body builders without autherisation from the vehice manufactors and some body builders removing vehicle plates and fitting there own plate with a chassis no. that doesn't match the actual chassis no. And most of the pre 1994 model fiat ducato base vehicle having thier gvw changed from 2800 kg to 3100kg. But the rsa are slow to listen,


  • Registered Users Posts: 115 ✭✭Morgan The Moon


    Pjwal wrote: »
    That is all quite fair, and I do agree that the current system may not suitable for the alko axle which is why I contacted my autheriseing officer in the council and the rsa inspector in charge of our area. But I do believe your original question was how is park currently been tested, and not how should they be tested.
    And also your comment about people having thier say with the rsa prior to the testing of campers been introduced makes complete sence. But unfortunatly the rsa don't listen or consult or seek an input from anybody, when ever something new is introduced they rush in and make the rules and after the faults in thier system has been found they end up having to back track and change rule even tho thier original instructions would already have cost some vehicle owners considerable amounts of money, it has happened many times priviously. A number of other questionable problems to do with camper testing are also croping up.I.e. Axle weights on the base vehicle been raised by body builders without autherisation from the vehice manufactors and some body builders removing vehicle plates and fitting there own plate with a chassis no. that doesn't match the actual chassis no. And most of the pre 1994 model fiat ducato base vehicle having thier gvw changed from 2800 kg to 3100kg. But the rsa are slow to listen,

    Thanks for your input. Your right my original query was," how is the park brake tested." The input from you and niloc1951 is what I was hoping for. I suspected that the testing of the parking brake would be an issue and thought I would seek others' opinion. If I found that the testing criteria could potentially cause damage to my Motorhome, I would think twice before handing over my keys. I think you would agree, to give the keys to a person who does not know what they are dealing with, is a definite no no. An interesting aspect of the testing regime is the lack of official proven documentation delivered to potential owners that may require their Motorhomes to be tested. I suspect a legal nightmare if anyone is charged of not have a certificate of compliance of this absurdly inept attempt of introducing necessary legislation. Personally I will wait before I hand over my keys!


  • Registered Users Posts: 176 ✭✭Pjwal


    Pjwal wrote:
    That is all quite fair, and I do agree that the current system may not suitable for the alko axle which is why I contacted my autheriseing officer in the council and the rsa inspector in charge of our area. But I do believe your original question was how is park currently been tested, and not how should they be tested.
    And also your comment about people having thier say with the rsa prior to the testing of campers been introduced makes complete sence. But unfortunatly the rsa don't listen or consult or seek an input from anybody, when ever something new is introduced they rush in and make the rules and after the faults in thier system has been found they end up having to back track and change rule even tho thier original instructions would already have cost some vehicle owners considerable amounts of money, it has happened many times priviously. A number of other questionable problems to do with camper testing are also croping up.I.e. Axle weights on the base vehicle been raised by body builders without autherisation from the vehice manufactors and some body builders removing vehicle plates and fitting there own plate with a chassis no. that doesn't match the actual chassis no. And most of the pre 1994 model fiat ducato base vehicle having thier gvw changed from 2800 kg to 3100kg. But the rsa are slow to listen,

    Thanks for your input. Your right my original query was," how is the park brake tested." The input from you and niloc1951 is what I was hoping for. I suspected that the testing of the parking brake would be an issue and thought I would seek others' opinion. If I found that the testing criteria could potentially cause damage to my Motorhome, I would think twice before handing over my keys. I think you would agree, to give the keys to a person who does not know what they are dealing with, is a definite no no. An interesting aspect of the testing regime is the lack of official proven documentation delivered to potential owners that may require their Motorhomes to be tested. I suspect a legal nightmare if anyone is charged of not have a certificate of compliance of this absurdly inept attempt of introducing necessary legislation. Personally I will wait before I hand over my keys!


    Are you going to contact the rsa. What area of the country are you located.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,741 ✭✭✭Irishgoatman


    Thanks for your input. Your right my original query was," how is the park brake tested." The input from you and niloc1951 is what I was hoping for. I suspected that the testing of the parking brake would be an issue and thought I would seek others' opinion. If I found that the testing criteria could potentially cause damage to my Motorhome, I would think twice before handing over my keys. I think you would agree, to give the keys to a person who does not know what they are dealing with, is a definite no no. An interesting aspect of the testing regime is the lack of official proven documentation delivered to potential owners that may require their Motorhomes to be tested. I suspect a legal nightmare if anyone is charged of not have a certificate of compliance of this absurdly inept attempt of introducing necessary legislation. Personally I will wait before I hand over my keys!

    I can't get into the discussion over brake testing as my campervan is a real lightweight but I'm confused over one of your sentences in the above.

    You refer to "....the lack of official proven documentation delivered...."
    Are you implying that the testing may not be legal? If so did you not receive a letter from the RSA? I understand from my contact that one was sent out to every owner whose 'van was road taxed in 2011.


  • Registered Users Posts: 115 ✭✭Morgan The Moon


    I'm heading out of Ireland to Turkey on Monday, I will keep an eye on the forum whilst I am travelling. Hopefully answers will develop, I will try and have some dialogue with the RSA by e-mail. However as I commented before, there must be hundreds of Motorhomes in Ireland with Alko chassis, even vehicles under 3500 kgs with Alko braking systems should not have the park brake tested on a "rolling road".


  • Registered Users Posts: 115 ✭✭Morgan The Moon


    I can't get into the discussion over brake testing as my campervan is a real lightweight but I'm confused over one of your sentences in the above.

    You refer to "....the lack of official proven documentation delivered...."
    Are you implying that the testing may not be legal? If so did you not receive a letter from the RSA? I understand from my contact that one was sent out to every owner whose 'van was road taxed in 2011.

    The legality of the test is arguable if the test does not carry out testing procedures as per the manufactures operating recommendations. Personally I have not received any notification by mail or any other method. By chance I read items on this forum, hence as you can see I joined so as to interject.
    My vehicle is taxed and insured. Maybe An Post is at fault or maybe the RSA.
    Do you think they have proof of posting!


  • Registered Users Posts: 181 ✭✭Martin_D


    Ignorance of the law is no defense. Laws and regulations are enacted all the time and there is no obligation to personally notify everyone - publication in iris oifiguil is the formal general notice


  • Registered Users Posts: 176 ✭✭Pjwal


    The legality of the test is arguable if the test does not carry out testing procedures as per the manufactures operating recommendations. Personally I have not received any notification by mail or any other method. By chance I read items on this forum, hence as you can see I joined so as to interject.
    My vehicle is taxed and insured. Maybe An Post is at fault or maybe the RSA.
    Do you think they have proof of posting!


    a letter was ment to be sent to the owner of every motorhome registered, they decided that was a cheaper option then media advertising. and all the motorhome awners that i know did recieve them. motorhome testing has been a european law for a few years now,which is why traffic core cops have been looking for it on the road for the last years and that is why quite a few peaple have been doing for the past couple of years, so it is a legal requirement, but as i said previously,and as with other vehice categorys, they dont do enough homework or consultation with people in the know and dive in, and then have to backtrack and make changes afterwards, it also happened with speedlimiters on certain minibusses, and a particular category of wideview mirrors on trucks under 7500kgs gvw, but unfortunatly, thery change the rules after some people have been forced to spend large amounts of money making modifacations, and creating many unnessisary arguments and awkward situations in the test centres.
    and you are correct that testing on all vehicles is as per manufacterer specification, but the tester doesnt have the autherisation to test brakes in any way other then by the testers manual unless they are informed of a spacific instruction on paper from the rsa


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 115 ✭✭Morgan The Moon


    Martin_D wrote: »
    Ignorance of the law is no defense. Laws and regulations are enacted all the time and there is no obligation to personally notify everyone - publication in iris oifiguil is the formal general notice

    This of course is correct. However if the legislation as published is considered flawless then there would be no reason for debate.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,741 ✭✭✭Irishgoatman


    The legality of the test is arguable if the test does not carry out testing procedures as per the manufactures operating recommendations. Personally I have not received any notification by mail or any other method. By chance I read items on this forum, hence as you can see I joined so as to interject.
    My vehicle is taxed and insured. Maybe An Post is at fault or maybe the RSA.
    Do you think they have proof of posting!

    I would think that with the vast number of manufacturers of motorhomes it would be an impossible job to consult with them all!.
    It was known that the VTN garages were to carry out these tests so perhaps these queries should have been raised during the consultation period by other people in the same situation as you.

    If you would like to PM me I'll give you the name of my contact in Ballina and you can query with him as to why you did not receive a letter.


  • Registered Users Posts: 176 ✭✭Pjwal


    I would think that with the vast number of manufacturers of motorhomes it would be an impossible job to consult with them all!.
    It was known that the VTN garages were to carry out these tests so perhaps these queries should have been raised during the consultation period by other people in the same situation as you.

    If you would like to PM me I'll give you the name of my contact in Ballina and you can query with him as to why you did not receive a letter.


    rsa dont really do consultation period, as testers we v never been asked of the practical implecations of any changes they ve ever made, we just recieve the information and the date to make the changes, that is why they have to do so much backtracking when ever they come up with something new, which does happen pretty often.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,741 ✭✭✭Irishgoatman


    I'm sure that the law regarding campervans will have to be tweeked at some time for various things such as interior inspection to make sure no waste water flows out, at the moment no mention of displaying test cert discs on the windscreen because we don't have them yet, but they are going to bring them in.

    If any other points are brought, by enough people, to the attention of the RSA who knows what could change.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,741 ✭✭✭Irishgoatman


    Pjwal wrote: »
    rsa dont really do consultation period, as testers we v never been asked of the practical implecations of any changes they ve ever made, we just recieve the information and the date to make the changes, that is why they have to do so much backtracking when ever they come up with something new, which does happen pretty often.

    Sorry to contradict you but they did consult, a letter was sent by peasant (Mod) on behalf of campervan owners on boards ame we were all encouraged to write giving our views.

    A letter was received telling us that our views had been taken on board.

    Just gone through my file. Letter was received by me on the 28 Nov 2010 and dated 22 Nov 2010.


  • Registered Users Posts: 176 ✭✭Pjwal


    I'm sure that the law regarding campervans will have to be tweeked at some time for various things such as interior inspection to make sure no waste water flows out, at the moment no mention of displaying test cert discs on the windscreen because we don't have them yet, but they are going to bring them in.

    If any other points are brought, by enough people, to the attention of the RSA who knows what could change.


    discs are to in by next year, thats why the tax office system isnt been changed to accomadate the 2 year certs, certs wont be givin by test centres, they be posted to the vehicle owner from rsa-loughrea,
    just guessing because of the area you are from, but is your contact j mc d


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,741 ✭✭✭Irishgoatman


    Pjwal wrote: »
    discs are to in by next year, thats why the tax office system isnt been changed to accomadate the 2 year certs, certs wont be givin by test centres, they be posted to the vehicle owner from rsa-loughrea,
    just guessing because of the area you are from, but is your contact j mc d

    Yes, I posted a while ago that discs were coming in next year.

    I don't have his surname to hand. First name only.
    I've posted a lot of information on here that has come from him.

    Perhaps I should have kept my area secret, the way others do.
    But on the other hand I've nothing to hide.


  • Registered Users Posts: 176 ✭✭Pjwal


    Sorry to contradict you but they did consult, a letter was sent by peasant (Mod) on behalf of campervan owners on boards ame we were all encouraged to write giving our views.

    A letter was received telling us that our views had been taken on board.

    Just gone through my file. Letter was received by me on the 28 Nov 2010 and dated 22 Nov 2010.


    not everybody that owns a motorhome is on boards.ie.


  • Registered Users Posts: 176 ✭✭Pjwal


    Yes, I posted a while ago that discs were coming in next year.

    I don't have his surname to hand. First name only.
    I've posted a lot of information on here that has come from him.

    Perhaps I should have kept my area secret, the way others do.
    But on the other hand I've nothing to hide.


    thats fair enough, i was just been noesy, i prob should'nt have asked.


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 1,741 ✭✭✭Irishgoatman


    Pjwal wrote: »
    not everybody that owns a motorhome is on boards.ie.

    Sorry, I didn't realise that:rolleyes:.

    I was just pointing out that some sort of consultation was done by them.

    Perhaps peasant or someone can recall how it came about that we were involved?.

    I'll try looking back at old threads.


Advertisement