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DoE testing - The Last Word

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  • Registered Users Posts: 222 ✭✭defike


    Just spoke to RSA and they say there is no legal requirement for seat belts to be fitted to rear seats in a motorcaravan.I was stopped by guards myself last year with passengers sitting in forward facing rear seats and he made no issue of the lack of seatbelts.My thinking is poorly fitted seatbelts can be dangerous in a crash.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 167 ✭✭bluethunder


    defike wrote: »
    Just spoke to RSA and they say there is no legal requirement for seat belts to be fitted to rear seats in a motorcaravan.I was stopped by guards myself last year with passengers sitting in forward facing rear seats and he made no issue of the lack of seatbelts.My thinking is poorly fitted seatbelts can be dangerous in a crash.

    More dangerous than no belts at all?


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,049 ✭✭✭niloc1951


    defike wrote: »
    Just spoke to RSA and they say there is no legal requirement for seat belts to be fitted to rear seats in a motorcaravan...........................

    :confused::confused:.

    This is a quote from the NSAI website "In the case of a motor-caravan, ambulance, or hearse, at least lap belts are required for rear seating positions.
    And,
    "In the case of a motor-caravan, ambulance, hearse, mobile crane or other special purpose vehicle, Any seats which are not designated for use when travelling on a road must be clearly identified to users by means of a pictogram or a sign with appropriate text."

    However, in my vehicle the seats designated are marked with a pictogram,which I suppose gives the same message.

    http://www.nsai.ie/NSAI/files/fe/fed8825a-379f-431e-a07c-20e126f7bd93.pdf


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,741 ✭✭✭Irishgoatman


    niloc1951 wrote: »
    :confused::confused:.

    This is a quote from the NSAI website "In the case of a motor-caravan, ambulance, or hearse, at least lap belts are required for rear seating positions.
    And,
    "In the case of a motor-caravan, ambulance, hearse, mobile crane or other special purpose vehicle, Any seats which are not designated for use when travelling on a road must be clearly identified to users by means of a pictogram or a sign with appropriate text."

    However, in my vehicle the seats designated are marked with a pictogram,which I suppose gives the same message.

    http://www.nsai.ie/NSAI/files/fe/fed8825a-379f-431e-a07c-20e126f7bd93.pdf

    I've just read through the piece that this link goes to!!!.

    Firstly, I've no idea who/what NSAI are?.
    If you start looking through the piece on this link you will have to go elsewhere as well as it makes references to other rules/regulations.

    Me personally, I will be going by the letter and info supplied by the RSA. They don't advise us to look elsewhere for information and the testing stations have received the same as us.

    I think you'll find that the latest/recent law re testing supersedes everything else.

    This, I think, is just going to muddy the water.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,049 ✭✭✭niloc1951


    .................I've no idea who/what NSAI are?............................

    the NSAI (National Standards Authority of Ireland) are/will be responsible for among other things the administration of Vehicle Type Approval, which means these are the people who will decide if a motor caravan meets the requirements of ECWVTA (European Community Whole Vehicle Type Approval) which has been discussed here in relation to self builds.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,741 ✭✭✭Irishgoatman


    niloc1951 wrote: »
    the NSAI (National Standards Authority of Ireland) are/will be responsible for among other things the administration of Vehicle Type Approval, which means these are the people who will decide if a motor caravan meets the requirements of ECWVTA (European Community Whole Vehicle Type Approval) which has been discussed here in relation to self builds.

    So in other words, anything on their site will only affect vehicles not already registered in this country as campervans/motorhomes.
    If I understand you correctly.


  • Registered Users Posts: 115 ✭✭Morgan The Moon


    Hi, Does anybody know how they are testing the parking brake / hand brake on vehicles that have tagg axle Alko chassis.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 167 ✭✭bluethunder


    Went to get my CRW this morning in the tax office. Chap at the desk took my money and said 'that's valid for 2 years, even though it says one year on the cert'. My van is 1996 so I thought it had to be tested every year. I asked him was he sure, telling him my van is over 10 years old. He insisted the cert was valid for two years.

    Still a lot of confusion around this I reckon. I've emailed motor tax office to clarify, will let you know what I get back.


  • Registered Users Posts: 348 ✭✭SonOfPerdition


    FAIL.

    4 problems, 2 I can do myself. The screenwash doesn't spray enough, so maybe clean out the pipes etc.

    :confused: My screenwash doesn't work and my van passed. :rolleyes:


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,741 ✭✭✭Irishgoatman


    Went to get my CRW this morning in the tax office. Chap at the desk took my money and said 'that's valid for 2 years, even though it says one year on the cert'. My van is 1996 so I thought it had to be tested every year. I asked him was he sure, telling him my van is over 10 years old. He insisted the cert was valid for two years.

    Still a lot of confusion around this I reckon. I've emailed motor tax office to clarify, will let you know what I get back.

    It is definitely every 2 years for vehicles over 10 years old as stated in the letter we all received.
    This is in line with cars.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,185 ✭✭✭deadl0ck


    It is definitely every 2 years for vehicles over 10 years old as stated in the letter we all received.
    This is in line with cars.

    OK - now I'm confused :confused:

    The letter says :
    Motor caravans must be tested on the fourth anniversary of first registration and thereafter every two years until the vehicle is ten years old, after which annual testing applies
    So that means it's every year if it's over 10, or am I missing something here ??


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 167 ✭✭bluethunder


    deadl0ck wrote: »
    OK - now I'm confused :confused:

    The letter says :
    Motor caravans must be tested on the fourth anniversary of first registration and thereafter every two years until the vehicle is ten years old, after which annual testing applies
    So that means it's every year if it's over 10, or am I missing something here ??

    That's my reading of it. I think irishgoatman made a mistake up there.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,741 ✭✭✭Irishgoatman


    That's my reading of it. I think irishgoatman made a mistake up there.

    Yes I did make a mistake. Should have typed, every year. Brains having trouble again.

    ".... until the vehicle is ten years old" which yours is, it's exactly the same as applies to cars.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 167 ✭✭bluethunder


    Exhibit A
    It is definitely every 2 years for vehicles over 10 years old as stated in the letter we all received.
    This is in line with cars.

    Exhibit B
    No mistake. Read it again.

    ".... until the vehicle is ten years old" which yours is, "after which", in other words after you have wished it a happy tenth birthday, " annual testing applies", meaning every year.

    I rest my face.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,741 ✭✭✭Irishgoatman


    Glad we've sorted that out.
    I sometimes think one thing and type another.
    As you will see, I did correct myself.

    I used to have a wife who was very good at correcting me.
    I'm not good at doing it myself.

    must take the tablets more often:o.


  • Registered Users Posts: 176 ✭✭Pjwal


    Hi, Does anybody know how they are testing the parking brake / hand brake on vehicles that have tagg axle Alko chassis.

    every axle that is fitted with a handbrake, will have the handbrake tested.


  • Registered Users Posts: 115 ✭✭Morgan The Moon


    Pjwal wrote: »
    every axle that is fitted with a handbrake, will have the handbrake tested.

    Hi, That is correct, but the Alko manufacturers have a strict guide line as to the operation and thus testing of the device. I was hoping that someone on here may know how they are physically carrying out the test.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2 vindiesel


    Hi,when going for the test do you have to get the underbody washed?My camper seems clean enough underneath but when I booked it in for test they said to get it washed.Anyone else get theirs washed?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 167 ✭✭bluethunder


    vindiesel wrote: »
    Hi,when going for the test do you have to get the underbody washed?My camper seems clean enough underneath but when I booked it in for test they said to get it washed.Anyone else get theirs washed?

    Didn't bother washing mine, was never told to but I did see signs up in the garage saying that you should. I suppose if they warn you to do it then you should if it needs it.


  • Registered Users Posts: 726 ✭✭✭WildWater


    vindiesel wrote: »
    Hi,when going for the test do you have to get the underbody washed?My camper seems clean enough underneath but when I booked it in for test they said to get it washed.Anyone else get theirs washed?

    Nope and they didn't ask me to when I booked it in but I checked and it is very clean under there. If its reasonably clean I'd say you will be fine.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 176 ✭✭Pjwal


    vindiesel wrote:
    Hi,when going for the test do you have to get the underbody washed?My camper seems clean enough underneath but when I booked it in for test they said to get it washed.Anyone else get theirs washed?


    No you don't need to wash underneath unless it is so dirty that the tester won't be able to check the components.


  • Registered Users Posts: 176 ✭✭Pjwal


    Pjwal wrote:
    every axle that is fitted with a handbrake, will have the handbrake tested.

    Hi, That is correct, but the Alko manufacturers have a strict guide line as to the operation and thus testing of the device. I was hoping that someone on here may know how they are physically carrying out the test.


    The axle will be driven onto the rolling road and weighed. If it is under the design gross weight, the rolling road will be started and the brake will be applyed and it's readings will be recorded on the computer. It is the only way a brake test can be done.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,049 ✭✭✭niloc1951


    Pjwal wrote: »
    The axle will be driven onto the rolling road and weighed. If it is under the design gross weight, the rolling road will be started and the brake will be applyed and it's readings will be recorded on the computer. It is the only way a brake test can be done.

    Interesting, but the rear brake system on Alko chassis is disc for stopping and 'top hat' for the handbrake.
    The handbrake is not strictly speaking a handbrake as found in many vehicles but is in fact a 'parking brake' and it is not supposed to be applied while the vehicle is in motion (I suppose wheels turning on a rolling road would be the same thing) because damage can be caused to its internal mechanism.


  • Registered Users Posts: 176 ✭✭Pjwal


    niloc1951 wrote: »
    Interesting, but the rear brake system on Alko chassis is disc for stopping and 'top hat' for the handbrake.
    The handbrake is not strictly speaking a handbrake as found in many vehicles but is in fact a 'parking brake' and it is not supposed to be applied while the vehicle is in motion (I suppose wheels turning on a rolling road would be the same thing) because damage can be caused to its internal mechanism.[/QUOT


    park brake is what it is frefered to as in the testing manual, and if it is the brake that is ment to hold the vehicle from moving while it is parked,then it must be tested on the rolling road, how ever, nobody wants to be responsable for causing damage to another persons pride and joy, so if you were to inform the tester of your concerns and inform him of alko's instructions, i am sure that once he has obtained enough readings(which are reasonably low for park brake)he will stop the test at that point instead of keeping going for the max readings that be obtained(which would be standard practice).


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,049 ✭✭✭niloc1951


    Pjwal wrote: »
    niloc1951 wrote: »
    Interesting, but the rear brake system on Alko chassis is disc for stopping and 'top hat' for the handbrake.
    The handbrake is not strictly speaking a handbrake as found in many vehicles but is in fact a 'parking brake' and it is not supposed to be applied while the vehicle is in motion (I suppose wheels turning on a rolling road would be the same thing) because damage can be caused to its internal mechanism.[/QUOT


    park brake is what it is frefered to as in the testing manual, and if it is the brake that is ment to hold the vehicle from moving while it is parked,then it must be tested on the rolling road, how ever, nobody wants to be responsable for causing damage to another persons pride and joy, so if you were to inform the tester of your concerns and inform him of alko's instructions, i am sure that once he has obtained enough readings(which are reasonably low for park brake)he will stop the test at that point instead of keeping going for the max readings that be obtained(which would be standard practice).

    Would it not be possible to start the rolling road after the parking brake has been applied, would this not be a more realistic test of its holding efficiency, after all it is not designed to be used to slow the vehicle or for bringing it to a halt


  • Registered Users Posts: 176 ✭✭Pjwal


    niloc1951 wrote: »
    Pjwal wrote: »

    Would it not be possible to start the rolling road after the parking brake has been applied, would this not be a more realistic test of its holding efficiency, after all it is not designed to be used to slow the vehicle or for bringing it to a halt


    no,fraid not,the axle would just lift out of the rollers and you would have no reading, the rollers only turn at 3km/h. to be honest, many alko axles have been tested for thier max output and no damage has been done, and up until now, campers tested on the heavy lane have had the axles tied down and still no damage so i dont think you need to be as concerned as you are


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,193 ✭✭✭Macspower


    passed today.. no problems... needed a few bulbs but the tester fitted them.. all very friendly and easy with Kieran at the VTN in Irish Commercials in Naas.. He was having camper day today with 6 of them booked in.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,049 ✭✭✭niloc1951


    Pjwal wrote: »
    ........................campers tested on the heavy lane have had the axles tied down and still no damage so i dont think you need to be as concerned as you are

    This is strictly contrary to Alko policy which advises that no attachments are to be made without their authorisation to their product. Any such actions can invalidate their warranty and liability for the consequences of chassis failure arising from such action.
    AND
    The 'tying down' axles of motor caravans of any GVW is also contrary to the test regulations item 37 & 39 Motor Caravan.........brake performance must be calculated using the vehicle weight presented and the axle load simulator need not be used
    Refer to Circular RSA VI 02/12


  • Registered Users Posts: 176 ✭✭Pjwal


    niloc1951 wrote: »
    Pjwal wrote:
    ........................campers tested on the heavy lane have had the axles tied down and still no damage so i dont think you need to be as concerned as you are

    This is strictly contrary to Alko policy which advises that no attachments are to be made without their authorisation to their product. Any such actions can invalidate their warranty and liability for the consequences of chassis failure arising from such action.
    AND
    The 'tying down' axles of motor caravans of any GVW is also contrary to the test regulations item 37 & 39 [COLOR="Red"]Motor Caravan.........brake performance must be calculated using the vehicle weight presented and the axle load simulator need not be used[/COLOR]
    Refer to Circular RSA VI 02/12

    the testing of motorhome with a gvw of over 3500kgs is only a regulation sence march 1st. How ever many people have been testing thier campers for the past 2 or years and if they had to be tested on the heavy lane, the brakes were tested against the gvw and not the presented weight and all axles would have been tied down. If you object to the testing process I suggest you contact the rsa in loughrea as they are the only people who can change the system and right now as all rules stand, the park brake must be tested on a rolling road.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,193 ✭✭✭Macspower


    I'm sure common sense can prevail here with the testing centre.. I know with my Subaru Impreza when it comes NCT time I ask them not to test it on the rolling road as it only does one axle at a time and it could wind the diff...

    there is never a problem and they generally just test the brakes in the yard instead.

    I'm sure the VTN centre would same common sense in this situation


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