petition - cats reclassified from vermin

GarIT

WIZE wrote: »

I guess this is answering the question that you let your cat roam .

I will start my own thread now . Feel free to take part in a debate

Already beat you to it, but send me a link to yours.

WIZE

GarIT wrote: »

Already beat you to it, but send me a link to yours.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056551609

I made it fair:)

The Sweeper

There needs to be a lot more thought given to the classification of cats in urban, suburban and rural areas. I'd be of the opinion that no cat should be permitted to roam in an urban or suburban area - they should be restricted to the owner's yard using appropriate fencing.

But there are a lot of stray and feral cats in urban and suburban areas, so what of them? Perhaps the councils need to commit to recognising feral colonies and managing them. There are plenty of canals and waterways through the city of Dublin for instance, and with such waterways come rats. Nobody really knows the true extent to which feral cats control such vermin - and even if 1,000 feral cats in Dublin are catching 1,000 rats a day, is that really making an impact on the actual number of rats? Controlled poison baiting with public education beforehand may be more effective - and if people aren't allowing their pets roam, there should be no problem with pets ingesting bait.

All round the idea of cat management is one that requires some imagination. Small animals, predatory, breed like rabbits, but can run, jump, climb, scale walls and trees and squeeze through unexpectedly small spaces. Not a difficult one to manage if you're one owner with your own pets, not an easy one to manage if you're talking about the entire species.

Zapperzy

Signed. My vermin is happily snoring on the bed beside me.

kylith

angry kitten wrote: »

I think I answered that WIZE. The problem is that people don't understand cats and make ill informed assumptions such as 'tie them to a post' or 'keep them in a cage'. I really don't understand why people get so het up about a cat passing through their garden. I mean really? I wish I had such trivial issues to occupy my time. I'm not going to comment any further on this thread as I think it would be best to keep it to what it was intended to be, a means of helping vulnerable cats. Enough said.

My parents garden was destroyed by cats digging up their flower beds to sh*t in them. Their grandchildren cannot play in the garden because of the cat sh*t.

Is your cat's so-called 'right to roam' really greater than my parents' right to enjoy the garden they've worked so hard, and spent so much money, on?

mathepac

planetX wrote: »

They are abandoned pets, or the offspring of abandoned pets, and are in need of help. They are not dangerous:mad:

I am a cat owner. I don't care what the prior status of the feral cats or their parents was. May post said that feral cats can be dangerous; they may attack pets or carry disease. Please don't be deliberately obtuse and provocative; read my post properly and don't attempt to distort my message with your feedback. To follow your questionable line of reasoning, there is no such thing as a dangerous feral cat.

Discodog

No cat, feral or otherwise, is classed as Vermin. The 1911 Protection of Animals Act applies to cats in that it is illegal to cause unnecessary suffering. If a cat is causing you problems then you should address your anger at the owner & not the totally innocent cat.

People should bear in mind the vast number of real Vermin than are controlled by cats.

I totally support the aims of the petition but I think that it is a bit unnecessary. The Animal Welfare Bill will cover all animals except those that are specifically excluded or subject to exemptions.

planetX

mathepac wrote: »

I am a cat owner. I don't care what the prior status of the feral cats or their parents was. May post said that feral cats can be dangerous; they may attack pets or carry disease. Please don't be deliberately obtuse and provocative; read my post properly and don't attempt to distort my message with your feedback. To follow your questionable line of reasoning, there is no such thing as a dangerous feral cat.

I have been neither obtuse nor provocative - you are drawing such a huge line between 'domesticated' and 'feral'. The ONLY difference is that nobody has cared for the feral, they are abandoned domesticated cats.
And yes, there is no such thing as a dangerous feral cat - unless you have it cornered (which would be as dangerous with a pet cat you didn't know)

Discodog

mathepac wrote: »

I don't care what the prior status of the feral cats or their parents was. .

Whether you care or not the facts are that Feral cats have exactly the same ability to feel pain & distress as your cats. Human society created them & all of us should bear the responsibility to solve the problem in a humane & compassionate way.

Nuri Sahin

Signed

Odysseus

angry kitten wrote: »

I think I answered that WIZE. The problem is that people don't understand cats and make ill informed assumptions such as 'tie them to a post' or 'keep them in a cage'. I really don't understand why people get so het up about a cat passing through their garden. I mean really? I wish I had such trivial issues to occupy my time. I'm not going to comment any further on this thread as I think it would be best to keep it to what it was intended to be, a means of helping vulnerable cats. Enough said.

Ok how does this sound you, in my garden are my motorbikes all covered to protect them. Anytime I'm at home all day, I see at least two local cats spray all over the covers and I have to remove those covers every time I wish to do work on one of them.

I don't think it is too petty to think that I should not have to put up with this because someone wants to let their cat roam.

Paparazzo

kylith wrote: »

My parents garden was destroyed by cats digging up their flower beds to sh*t in them. Their grandchildren cannot play in the garden because of the cat sh*t.

Is your cat's so-called 'right to roam' really greater than my parents' right to enjoy the garden they've worked so hard, and spent so much money, on?

Don't forget that you can't have a bird house or bird table if cats keep coming into your garden.

angry kitten wrote: »

People with that attitude tried that in the past. Historically it didn't end well. Plague ring a bell? Would you prefer an infestation of rats in the neighbourhood?

Don't stop at rats. In the USA it's estimated that cats kill 1 billion birds each year.

I don't think cats should be classfied as vermin, but too many owners think it's ok for their pets to roam the streets and shít in other peoples gardens.

kylith

Paparazzo wrote: »

Don't stop at rats. In the USA it's estimated that cats kill 1 billion birds each year.

I think it's Sweden that has laws that prohibit cats roaming. I haven't heard of them being wiped out by bubonic plague yet.

Of course, should Plague erupt it can now be treated with a simple course of antibiotics, and innoculated against.

aN.Droid

if this were to come into effect would there not be a mass culling of feral cats then? take for example, dog warden see's dog with no tags or chip, brings dog to pound, few days later dog is destroyed if not claimed. The same would apply to feral cat's and domesticated cats that are not claimed, am I correct?

Also this would mean that cat owners would be legally responsible for there cats behaviour, like defecating in neighbours lawns and scratching property would it not?

kylith

Limericks wrote: »

if this were to come into effect would there not be a mass culling of feral cats then? take for example, dog warden see's dog with no tags or chip, brings dog to pound, few days later dog is destroyed if not claimed. The same would apply to feral cat's and domesticated cats that are not claimed, am I correct?

While I don't like to see any animal killed I think that this may be a more effective solution than Trap Neuter Release. Sure, those cats can't breed, but they will be replaced by other dumped or lost cats. A systematic culling, though distasteful, would probably have a much larger impact on feral cat numbers.

Limericks wrote: »

Also this would mean that cat owners would be legally responsible for there cats behaviour, like defecating in neighbours lawns and scratching property would it not?

One would hope so. Also that if you run over a cat the owner would be liable for any damage to your vehicle, the same as with dogs.

planetX

kylith wrote: »

While I don't like to see any animal killed I think that this may be a more effective solution than Trap Neuter Release. Sure, those cats can't breed, but they will be replaced by other dumped or lost cats. A systematic culling, though distasteful, would probably have a much larger impact on feral cat numbers.

One would hope so. Also that if you run over a cat the owner would be liable for any damage to your vehicle, the same as with dogs.

so would the culled cats be replaced by other dumped cats. What a totally vile solution.

kylith

planetX wrote: »

so would the culled cats be replaced by other dumped cats. What a totally vile solution.

It's not a perfect solution, but TNR isn't perfect either. With TNR any more cats dumped will increase the local population of feral cats. At least if they're removed they have a chance of being rehomed before being euthanised; bringing down the number of feral cats in an area.

Discodog

planetX wrote: »

so would the culled cats be replaced by other dumped cats. What a totally vile solution.

Yes they would & the numbers would rapidly increase as the population size depends on the available resources.

planetX

kylith wrote: »

It's not a perfect solution, but TNR isn't perfect either. With TNR any more cats dumped will increase the local population of feral cats. At least if they're removed they have a chance of being rehomed before being euthanised; bringing down the number of feral cats in an area.

Rescues are full to bursting with beautiful tame cats that they can't find homes for. The problem is not with the cats, it's with all the bloody people who won't neuter. The countryside is full of them - THEY need dealing with first.

Traonach

The Sweeper wrote: »

Controlled poison baiting with public education beforehand may be more effective - and if people aren't allowing their pets roam, there should be no problem with pets ingesting bait.
.

Poison baiting kills Red Kites, Sparrowhawks, Buzzards, Barn Owls, Long eared owls, Kestrels, Foxes, Badgers, Stoats, Pine martens etc. :mad::mad::mad: Not just pets like dogs and cats are effected.

Cherry Blossom

Limericks wrote: »

if this were to come into effect would there not be a mass culling of feral cats then? take for example, dog warden see's dog with no tags or chip, brings dog to pound, few days later dog is destroyed if not claimed. The same would apply to feral cat's and domesticated cats that are not claimed, am I correct?

Also this would mean that cat owners would be legally responsible for there cats behaviour, like defecating in neighbours lawns and scratching property would it not?

This is exactly the effect the petition will have (if any),

I have to say I'm somewhat confused by this thread and the petition linked to it. It's all very contradictory.

It seems to me that people are calling for either the department of agriculture or the department of the environment to take responsibility for the feral cat problem (that's why all you people have all signed it right?) The thing is feral cats are a plague on both the environment (control issue - as with stray dogs) and the department of agricultures remit (non-indigenous species etc. etc.) No non-indigenous species has ever been awarded any sort of 'protected' status in this country, nor should or will they be.


There is no way on earth that funding will ever be approved for mass trapping and neutering on such a scale, the Irish government already awards a grant to rescues, should the money that this will cost be taken from that fund? from children's hopitals, from the government aid that is sent to Africa, or who should lose out to pay for it? Hell will freeze over before any government department releases a non-indigenous species back into the wild, the idea is as ridiculous as the dog and horse pounds suddenly flinging their gates open and letting em all back out. If anything comes of this it will be a mass cull followed by incorporating cats into the pound system which to be perfectly honest is both the most humane and long-term solution to problem and once the facility exits the need will no longer exist for people to take matters into their own hands. Once a system like this is in place it is inevitable that many pet cats will also find themselves being part of it due to the thousands of people neglecting to have their pets micro-chipped.

I'm not sure whoever started this petition has thought it through properly and a lot of people here completely misunderstand the consequences of what it is they have signed as there seems to be a view from a lot of posters here that they should be allowed to continue as they are - living miserable lives full of disease and to be promoted to 'protected species' or something mad like that. They already have a devastating effect on our 'real' protected species (most of our wild bird species and the pygmy shrew), there is no logical reasoning behind this petition at all and if it is taken notice of, I think most of the people who have signed their names on it will probably be devastated at the result it produces.


This is what happens when people jump blindly into things without doing any proper analysis. It will be at least another week before I decide whether or not to add my name to the list.

kildare.17hmr

Poisining is defo not an option, apart from the fact that it causes a long painful death to the animal it is not controlable and you kill way more than your intended target

Discodog

There will never be a mass cull. Even with Ireland's welfare record the adverse publicity would be huge. Thousands of tourists etc would never return. Also you could never be sure that you weren't killing someone's pet.

aN.Droid

Discodog wrote: »

There will never be a mass cull. Even with Ireland's welfare record the adverse publicity would be huge. Thousands of tourists etc would never return. Also you could never be sure that you weren't killing someone's pet.

But this is in effect the ultimate conclusion of this petition. Have cats classed as pets and destroy the strays, just like dogs.

kylith

planetX wrote: »

Rescues are full to bursting with beautiful tame cats that they can't find homes for. The problem is not with the cats, it's with all the bloody people who won't neuter. The countryside is full of them - THEY need dealing with first.

Oh, absolutely. If people were responsible and looked after their pets properly there wouldn't be a problem with roaming and feral cats in the first place.

angry kitten

That was a very long winded response from adrenalinejunkie on a subject he/she clearly knows very little, if anything about. Perhaps the time spent condescending to others would have been better spent learning about the Trap neuter and release programmes undertaken by charities in this country, rather than criticising people for trying to help vulnerable animals. What exactly does Africa have do with anything? This is Ireland, the Dept of Agriculture's ex-gratia payments to charities is negligible in the scheme of things.

Why do you feel the need to bring children and famine victims into the equation? Whether you choose to support the campaign or not is entirely your own affair but it's a little cheap using famine victims and children to try to justify not spending money on a Trap Neuter and Release scheme for cats in Ireland. Many feral cats are tame cats who have been abandoned by owners who can no longer be bothered to care for them.

kildare.17hmr

Well where would you suggest the money comes from? Realistly a cull would be the best option to solve the problem of feral cats

aN.Droid

angry kitten wrote: »

That was a very long winded response from adrenalinejunkie on a subject he/she clearly knows very little, if anything about. Perhaps the time spent condescending to others would have been better spent learning about the Trap neuter and release programmes undertaken by charities in this country, rather than criticising people for trying to help vulnerable animals. What exactly does Africa have do with anything? This is Ireland, the Dept of Agriculture's ex-gratia payments to charities is negligible in the scheme of things.

Why do you feel the need to bring children and famine victims into the equation? Whether you choose to support the campaign or not is entirely your own affair but it's a little cheap using famine victims and children to try to justify not spending money on a Trap Neuter and Release scheme for cats in Ireland. Many feral cats are tame cats who have been abandoned by owners who can no longer be bothered to care for them.

What about stray dogs? Lets have them have free run of the streets aswell, as long as they are neutered there is no problem right?

Traonach

If there was ever a cull/bounty put on feral cats there would be one big problem. You would have rednecks shooting ever cat around irrespective of whether the cats were feral or domestic cats.

Fenian Army

Unfortunately I think that this would be a bad move.

Feral cats, especially in rural areas can be massive headwreckers, how should they be dealt with? I would agree, a massive cull then you can start with a fresh slate with protections etc.

Perhaps not a palatable prospect for some people here, but how else do you suggest feral cats are dealt with? How can the problems be dealt with if they have tons of protections? Especially when there are so many? You can't catch them all and those that are wouldn't be re-homed and would most probably be put down.