Super Rugby [Super 15] - General Discussion Thread

endabob1

endabob1 wrote: »

Hopefully the Stormers can make the semi's again but with Rassie Erasmus leaving I would be surprised, their pack (front row really) is not up to scratch either imo.
Of the SA sides, I think the Sharks might be the best package, good pack with Smit gone there's less tension around the Hooker slot, I really like the look of McLeod the young 9 & Lambie is developing but possibly not at 10 which might be their issue, I'm not sure if Michalak is staying for the Super 15.

Don't want to say I told you so but... not a bad shout from me :cool:

thomond2006

http://www.planetrugby.com/story/0,25883,3551_7951991,00.html

Waratahs coach Michael Foley leaving to join Western Force. The chairman and team manager have also left. It doesn't look like a happy camp.

boksmashoffice

congreats to the sharks. I just hope they have 1 more match in them. The loss of Tim Whitehead could be the difference. Mind you Lambie is back.

1 more match lads. Do it for South Africa

Klunk_NZ

Going to the final to see like the 11th win from A NZ team in the comp.
Then going to the South African boards to troll.

PhatPiggins

Klunk_NZ wrote: »

Going to the final to see like the 11th win from A NZ team in the comp.
Then going to the South African boards to troll.

That would sound far more impressive if the Crusaders hadn't won 8 of them. Serious underperforming from the other NZ franchises.

CatFromHue

Klunk_NZ wrote: »

Going to the final to see like the 11th win from A NZ team in the comp.
Then going to the South African boards to troll.

Does that mean you only logged on here to troll after NZ beat us 3 times in June :pac::pac:

It's going to be an interesting game I think and one I won't be putting any money on.

backawaygo onahead

Klunk_NZ wrote: »

Going to the final to see like the 11th win from A NZ team in the comp.
Then going to the South African boards to troll.

Surely not another NZ stereotype, graceless winners?

There you go, prime opportunity to rubbish us Irish losers.

profitius

yimrsg wrote: »

Stormers Vs Sharks highlights

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rae-PTsn7hs

I thought the Stormers made a mistake going for the posts in the 72nd minute when they were 7pts down and in front of the posts. If they were 6pts down fair enough but in reality they were unlikely to get 2 more penalty opportunities in the last 8 min.

CatFromHue

Funnily enough I thought it was a good idea. The points where there so take 'em and keep the pressure on the Sharks. Being 7 points ahead is a nice place to be in but being only 4 points ahead is a different story I think.

molloyjh

CatFromHue wrote: »

Funnily enough I thought it was a good idea. The points where there so take 'em and keep the pressure on the Sharks. Being 7 points ahead is a nice place to be in but being only 4 points ahead is a different story I think.

The way I see it is that you take your points while you can get them. Being back within 4 means you just need the try, and there was time on the clock for that. Going for the try would have used up more time and there was absolutely no guarantee that a) they'd get it (and the conversion) and b) they'd get another penalty opportunity. And even if they had gotten the try they still needed another score to win it. The choice really was take your points and then go for the try, or go for the try and then hope you can take points somewhere else.

profitius

My way of seeing it is that they needed a try anyway so why not just go for the try. Get a draw first and then concentrate on the win. Chances were very limited and they had a great chance to score.

yimrsg

Full match here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=92Nr7fNLOOQ

Kicks off at 11:06

I missed the match live but I can see the logic kicking for 3, 7 points down with 8 minutes left. The Stormers were never going to out muscle the Sharks in the scrum and with resets, it would have eaten up a lot of time and possibly gotten turned over. If they went for a driving maul off the lineout, despite the likelihood in retaining possession from Bekker et al., I wouldn't fancy their pack to drive them over against the stronger forwards of the Sharks. If they did cross from a drive it would be out wide and a tough conversion kick for Grant to equalise. There is a possibility that from the lineout, the Stormers backs to do a prepared move but they're not the most incisive and it's out of character. They had to take the 3 points and hope to get the ball from the restart.

Judgement Day

profitius wrote: »

My way of seeing it is that they needed a try anyway so why not just go for the try. Get a draw first and then concentrate on the win. Chances were very limited and they had a great chance to score.

+1

That kicking decision was fatal in my opinion. As a neutral I wanted Sharks to win - at first - and then I swung towards the ex.Munster man's team.

thomond2006

Anyone else really like the Stormers jersey?

profitius

yimrsg wrote: »

I missed the match live but I can see the logic kicking for 3, 7 points down with 8 minutes left. The Stormers were never going to out muscle the Sharks in the scrum and with resets, it would have eaten up a lot of time and possibly gotten turned over. If they went for a driving maul off the lineout, despite the likelihood in retaining possession from Bekker et al., I wouldn't fancy their pack to drive them over against the stronger forwards of the Sharks. If they did cross from a drive it would be out wide and a tough conversion kick for Grant to equalise. There is a possibility that from the lineout, the Stormers backs to do a prepared move but they're not the most incisive and it's out of character. They had to take the 3 points and hope to get the ball from the restart.

8 min to get a try on the line or 7 min to get a try from inside their own half. I know which one I'd take! :cool:

yimrsg

profitius wrote: »

8 min to get a try on the line or 7 min to get a try from inside their own half. I know which one I'd take! :cool:

How would you have gone about it though? And even if you convert the try, you'd still not be leading.

The stormers' scrum was/is weaker so you could rule that out as too much of a lottery (already lost 2 5m scrums; 1 on their own put in). A catch and drive from the lineout would be tough but probably their best bet as I couldn't see the stormers trying a backline move off the top; ruling out an easy conversion nearer the posts.

The downside to keeping it in the pack is that if they score it'll be out wide with a tough conversion. Grant had missed an easy kick nearly straight on, before that clearly feeling the pressure. Based on that I'd imagine he'd miss a conversion from out wide and the stormers would still require a score to win so the decision to kick but would be down deep in their half with less than 5/4 minutes to go facing a fresher backrow hunting for turnovers.

As things played out, the stormers had their opportunity in the form of a penalty at the very end after Sykes had a brain-fart but showed no composure when they needed it despite facing a defence with Michalak barely able to stand. I think they made the correct call going for 3 but it's not the match defining moment in the outcome; De Villiers being held up over the line and conceding the penalty from the 5m scrum was the crucial one.

matthew8

yimrsg wrote: »

Based on that I'd imagine he'd miss a conversion from out wide

No way, he had one of the greatest kicking seasons ever. Something like 48 from 52 kicks.

profitius

yimrsg wrote: »

How would you have gone about it though? And even if you convert the try, you'd still not be leading.

The stormers' scrum was/is weaker so you could rule that out as too much of a lottery (already lost 2 5m scrums; 1 on their own put in). A catch and drive from the lineout would be tough but probably their best bet as I couldn't see the stormers trying a backline move off the top; ruling out an easy conversion nearer the posts.

The downside to keeping it in the pack is that if they score it'll be out wide with a tough conversion. Grant had missed an easy kick nearly straight on, before that clearly feeling the pressure. Based on that I'd imagine he'd miss a conversion from out wide and the stormers would still require a score to win so the decision to kick but would be down deep in their half with less than 5/4 minutes to go facing a fresher backrow hunting for turnovers.

As things played out, the stormers had their opportunity in the form of a penalty at the very end after Sykes had a brain-fart but showed no composure when they needed it despite facing a defence with Michalak barely able to stand. I think they made the correct call going for 3 but it's not the match defining moment in the outcome; De Villiers being held up over the line and conceding the penalty from the 5m scrum was the crucial one.

They needed a try. There was little chance of getting 2 other penalties in the time remaining considering the Sharks would have 2 kick offs and put the ball down the other end of the pitch and run the clock down.

I would have gone for the try ASAP and hope to draw the game, bring it into extra time with more momentum and a fresher team.

CatFromHue

The teams have been named:

The Sharks: 15 Pat Lambie, 14 Louis Ludik, 13 JP Pietersen, 12 Paul Jordaan, 11 Lwazi Mvovo, 10 Frederic Michalak, 9 Charl McLeod, 8 Ryan Kankowski, 7 Marcell Coetzee, 6 Keegan Daniel (c), 5 Anton Bresler, 4 Willem Alberts, 3 Jannie du Plessis, 2 Bismarck du Plessis, 1 Tendai Mtawarira.

Chiefs: 15 Robbie Robinson, 14 Tim Nanai-Williams, 13 Andrew Horrell, 12 Sonny Bill Williams, 11 Asaeli Tikoirotuma, 10 Aaron Cruden, 9 Tawera Kerr-Barlow, 8 Kane Thompson, 7 Tanerau Latimer, 6 Liam Messam, 5 Brodie Retallick, 4 Craig Clarke (c), 3 Ben Tameifuna, 2 Mahonri Schwalger, 1 Sona Taumalolo.

Pat Lambie back for the Sharks. The Sharks do look to have a stronger pack.

Klunk_NZ

backawaygo onahead wrote: »

Surely not another NZ stereotype, graceless winners?

There you go, prime opportunity to rubbish us Irish losers.

I was joking -_-,
do I even need to say anything about Ireland/NZ with a record like this?

Klunk_NZ

PhatPiggins wrote: »

That would sound far more impressive if the Crusaders hadn't won 8 of them. Serious underperforming from the other NZ franchises.

NZ normally makes up 2 of the semi finals. The Crusaders Aura is done with overrated players like Fruen Ellis Taylor stifling the backs.

Kilkenny14

Bump for the final tonight - the Chiefs are worthy favourites but if the Sharks start well they can make it a tight contest.

thomond2006

3-0 Sharks

Taco Corp

Is it just me or does almost every player go off their feet at ruck time?

thomond2006

Try Chiefs.

Swiwi

Stupid play by Du Plessis...can't afford to gift 3 points

Swiwi

Terrible start by the Chiefs, but they are starting to dominate. Seem to have the wood on the sharks at lineout time, and Cruden is starting to dictate. Should be a cracking second 40.

matthew8

Steve Walsh is a joke. Chiefs players blocking Sharks off the ball all over the place.

Swiwi

That was idiotic by Cruden...they should not be chasing the game...

Swiwi

matthew8 wrote: »

Steve Walsh is a joke. Chiefs players blocking Sharks off the ball all over the place.

Sharks should change their tactics then...