Why not Linux

Groinshot · 23-04-2012 5:53pm

BostonB wrote: »

Except you wouldn't, you'd actually tell them to RTFM...

http://linux.about.com/od/funnymanpages/a/funman_rtfm.htm

was so disappointed when this didn't exist

Johnboy1951 · 23-04-2012 7:26pm

irishdude11 wrote: »

This is one of the most common mouse you will find, there are probably tens of millions of them out there. And they are not supported properly on Linux. If the Linux community can't support easily one of the most used peripherals is it any wonder people are always running into trouble getting hardware to work with Linux.

So the manufacturer refuses to support their own product, but you expect others to do so?

Something askew with that reasoning .....

23-04-2012 7:39pm

For me, I'm more hardware focussed. I'm not a software guru at all, so what I perceive as an over-reliance on the terminal and the need to compile software from source is what puts me off. I tried downloading a NES emulator on Ubuntu on one occasion and couldn't work out how to compile the source to get it working. On Windows I downloaded the EXE and ran it. Much easier.

I used to reinstall Windows a lot, but that was when I was messing around a lot. I don't do that anymore with my personal machine, have plenty of time to do that in work, and as a result I've never once had a need to reinstall Windows 7.

irishdude11 · 23-04-2012 7:54pm

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

So the manufacturer refuses to support their own product, but you expect others to do so?

Something askew with that reasoning .....

I dont expect them to, you do. You use Linux, you are expecting people do write drivers for hardware devices, otherwise you wouldn't be able to use Linux.

Johnboy1951 · 23-04-2012 7:57pm

irishdude11 wrote: »

I dont expect them to, you do. You use Linux, you are expecting people do write drivers for hardware devices, otherwise you wouldn't be able to use Linux.

No I do not.

I do not have any of those Microsoft products that they refuse to support.
Neither will I ever buy one ... unless the manufacturer supports their product! ..... and even then I very much doubt I would.

ntlbell · 23-04-2012 8:00pm

Groinshot wrote: »

You don't need a beast of a computer to run Win7. If you're doing anything with rosegarden or Cinelerra you'd be absolutely insane to run it on low spec hardware.

The point being I can have my FreeBSD desktop fly along happily on 10yr+ old hardware. Obviously this isn't a burning concern for every tom dick and harry, but it is for some and Linux/BSD allows them to have that choice and still have a relativley very up to date OS. Also I'm not sure why people are talking about rosegarden etc i've never even heard of these packages untill a few hours ago.

Groinshot wrote: »

If linux becomes more popular, then this becomes a problem for linux then too.

We have no idea what will happen, but linux/BSD is designed with security in mind from the ground up plus it encourages things like sudo reducing "accidents"

Groinshot wrote: »

Why is this an issue for most people? don't need it? don't use it. What if someone decides they don't need gcc, or gnome, because they don't know what they are? remove them?

It means I have the choice of what to install from the off and can have everything i require in a couple of hundred megs if that's what needed, it gives me control.

Groinshot wrote: »

Coming from the group of people who are most opposed to keeping up to date.

I'm not sure what you're referring to here? being able to install security patches software updates etc with one "click" or one command will never be a negative thing"

Groinshot wrote: »

This is pure crap, absolute crap. features such as what?

As soon as a feature is added for example in FreeBSD -CURRENT

you can have it that day. with windows you have to wait for the next release of the OS, again i'm not sure why you're trying to turn that into something negative?

Groinshot wrote: »

only as bad as the user. I guarantee you if I gave my GF ubuntu the only reason she wouldn't cram it so full of **** is because she wouldn't be able to figure out how. If she did, she'd be more than happy to stuff as much crap in as many inconvenient locations as possible, without any thoughts and **** it up just as badly as she does a windows laptop.

I've been in IT for more years than I care to remeber I've been using windows and an endless amount of linux/BSD distro's I've managed to mangle many a windows box from what I would consider basic day to day useage.

Groinshot wrote: »

Mmm, I disagree here, I would imagine the reason most of the servers are running *nix is because it's free, and because everyone else already does it. If they run windows server 2003, finding someone to maintain it is much harder than finding someone who can maintain ubuntu 10.04

No it's because an internet facing windows box has been a liability for years and you had to reboot after moving a mouse. hotmail wasn't running FreeBSD because it was free it doesn't run yahoo/gmail/google because it's free multi billion dollar companies don't have to worry about a few hundred bucks for some server licenes. they need 99.99999% uptime. They require secure robust OS's with highly tuned tcp/ip stacks. not a bunch of telly tubby servers.

It's why microsoft don't use exchange on their internet facing mail servers, odd no? or they do it because it's easier to find a *nix admin?

Your arguments hold no water and seem to be pointing out negativity where there is none for arguments sake.

imitation · 23-04-2012 9:20pm

The real question is why Linux for most people, as almost every computer comes with Windows. Asking John Q Consumer to install linux is like asking them to perform open heart surgery.

For a home user it limits the number of well known applications they can use and the number of games they can play. At the end of the day for most home users the OS is the means to the end, and Window's delivers the most "ends", just like most people drive a car just to get around as opposed to picking up a special model and lavishing it with care and attention.

In enterprises the concerns are similar, many companies are going to be using specialized applications (ERP, Business analytics etc ) that have more presence on windows. Its alot easier to find Windows IT people (even though they too are in reasonable demand.)

gimme5minutes · 23-04-2012 9:35pm

ntlbell wrote: »

As soon as a feature is added for example in FreeBSD -CURRENT

what are these features you are talking about?

No it's because an internet facing windows box has been a liability for years and you had to reboot after moving a mouse. hotmail wasn't running FreeBSD because it was free it doesn't run yahoo/gmail/google because it's free multi billion dollar companies don't have to worry about a few hundred bucks for some server licenes. they need 99.99999% uptime. They require secure robust OS's with highly tuned tcp/ip stacks. not a bunch of telly tubby servers.

linux is good for servers but pointless for home users. I know many people, including myself, with an interest in IT who tried out linux for a while to see what its all about. an after the novelty wears off it just another os except it cant run games or lots of applications and you are regularly battling to get something or other working with it. i had to spent 5 hours trying to get my printer to print with it. i had two different broadband dongles at one stage, couldnt get either to work after trying out several guides i found on the net. there was hype a few years back when netbooks started coming that linux was now usable for the average home user and was going to take off. well I think many realised that wasnt the case after giving it a go.

stuff just works with windows. it is only going to get worse for linux as there are so many connectable devices these days that is just not possible for the open source community to make all these devices compatible with linux. and people have an expectation these days that devices will just sync up and work together. as soon they run into one of these issues compatibility issues with linux they just realise its too much hassle.

ntlbell · 23-04-2012 9:42pm

gimme5minutes wrote: »

what are these features you are talking about?

It could be anything from a new filesystem to swivelling your desktop in that aero nonsense. the point is as soon as it goes in, you can have it.

gimme5minutes wrote: »

linux is good for servers but pointless for home users. I know many people, including myself, with an interest in IT who tried out linux for a while to see what its all about. an after the novelty wears off it just another os except it cant run games or lots of applications and you are regularly battling to get something or other working with it. i had to spent 5 hours trying to get my printer to print with it. i had two different broadband dongles at one stage, couldnt get either to work after trying out several guides i found on the net. there was hype a few years back when netbooks started coming that linux was now usable for the average home user and was going to take off. well I think many realised that wasnt the case after giving it a go.

stuff just works with windows. it is only going to get worse for linux as there are so many connectable devices these days that is just not possible for the open source community to make all these devices compatible with linux. and people have an expectation these days that devices will just sync up and work together. as soon they run into one of these issues compatibility issues with linux they just realise its too much hassle.

if one has no use for it, don't use it.

I knew nothing about IT and very little technical knoweledge when I first tried to install RH 5.x but the reason I attempted it was I was sick and tired of the problems I had with windows.

I paid for FreeBSD and bought a book and put the time in. Right one shouldn't have to and that;s fine don't bother. but people seem to be putting their technical limitations and laziness down to a problem with an OS.

ntlbell · 23-04-2012 9:44pm

If your purpose is to use a pc to play the latest and greatest games and pull the belly off yourself. then there really is no need to learn *nix.

In fact you should most deinfiltley for the benifit of everyone else, stay away from it.

irishdude11 · 24-04-2012 12:48am

ntlbell wrote: »

It could be anything from a new filesystem to swivelling your desktop in that aero nonsense. the point is as soon as it goes in, you can have it.

I think having a system that can handle your wifi card or mouse is more important than having a new filesystem or desktop effects.

if one has no use for it, don't use it.

I knew nothing about IT and very little technical knoweledge when I first tried to install RH 5.x but the reason I attempted it was I was sick and tired of the problems I had with windows.

I paid for FreeBSD and bought a book and put the time in. Right one shouldn't have to and that;s fine don't bother. but people seem to be putting their technical limitations and laziness down to a problem with an OS.

There is a problem with the OS, it does not work properly with tons of devices.

And whatever problems you had with the 11 year old XP operating system or the crap vista are not present in Windows 7. Microsoft nailed it with W7.

Anyway, Im done with the thread, just like to say before I leave that alot of people who left XP or Vista for Linux could do with giving W7 a go. Obviously many people havent tried W7 as they are still talking about slowing down over time and crashing as reasons not to use windows. These issues dont exist anymore. I was in the same boat myself, sick of XP slowing down and having to be reinstalled every few months. But its a completely different story these days, W7 is as good as it gets, it beats everything hands down.

melekalikimaka · 24-04-2012 12:55am

my issue is the stupid file systems... you'd think mac would work with it... but no

PrzemoF · 24-04-2012 8:58am

Groinshot wrote: »

Why is this an issue for most people? don't need it? don't use it. What if someone decides they don't need gcc, or gnome, because they don't know what they are? remove them?

I'm just picking cherries here. gcc or gnome are not known for running background updates, "quick starts", or system checks to make sure you can install next version. Windows software is doing it all the time!

irishdude11, I bet that ms mouse is not using any standards. Probably ms decided "let's do something easy for us and force the rest of the world to use it as standard".

@viruses: even if there were as many viruses for linux as it for windows they would have no chance to survive. Critical patches are available within hours after the discovery and normal user has no access to the system, but only to his/her data.

A real life example of linux vs w7: http://linux.slashdot.org/story/12/03/29/0025239/munich-has-saved-4m-so-far-after-switch-to-linux

ntlbell · 24-04-2012 9:11am

irishdude11 wrote: »

I think having a system that can handle your wifi card or mouse is more important than having a new filesystem or desktop effects.

Sorry, in all my years I never had any problems with a mouse and I always checked the hardware requirements before install so never had an issue with network cards or chipsets. It might be an idea for you to purchase that book.

irishdude11 wrote: »

There is a problem with the OS, it does not work properly with tons of devices.

As has been mentioned all ready the problem is not with the OS the problem is with the vendors who don't open up their source code, maybe you should write a letter to them instead of waffling on here about an issue you seem to have no grasp of?

irishdude11 wrote: »

And whatever problems you had with the 11 year old XP operating system or the crap vista are not present in Windows 7. Microsoft nailed it with W7.

They nailed it with dos :rolleyes:

irishdude11 wrote: »

Anyway, Im done with the thread, just like to say before I leave that alot of people who left XP or Vista for Linux could do with giving W7 a go. Obviously many people havent tried W7 as they are still talking about slowing down over time and crashing as reasons not to use windows. These issues dont exist anymore. I was in the same boat myself, sick of XP slowing down and having to be reinstalled every few months. But its a completely different story these days, W7 is as good as it gets, it beats everything hands down.

That's your opinion and you're entitled to it and I agree the majority of people should stay with something simple and srtraight forward and require little or no engadgemnt of their brain and gives them little choice. Then things break. glad you found something that suits your needs.

gimme5minutes · 24-04-2012 10:12am

PrzemoF wrote: »

irishdude11, I bet that ms mouse is not using any standards. Probably ms decided "let's do something easy for us and force the rest of the world to use it as standard".

what are you talking about? there are no 'standards' that cover all operating system. each operating system has to specifically supported. thats their are different versions of device drivers for different OS's and different OS versions. MS dont support Linux, the same as most companys dont support it.

ntlbell wrote: »

Sorry, in all my years I never had any problems with a mouse and I always checked the hardware requirements before install so never had an issue with network cards or chipsets. It might be an idea for you to purchase that book.

another reason not to use linux, you have to check hardware requirements to make sure a mouse or network card will work with it.:rolleyes: it is a big negative for an operating system if it doesnt work with a whole heap of devices meaning you need to check compatibility before buying anything. so no only can it not run lots of software, it also doesnt work with lots of hardware.

i had a problem with a printer and broadband dongle when i started using linux. i already had these pieces of hardware, was i supposed to go out and buy a new printer and broadband dongle and bin the old ones? i actually did buy another dongle and that didnt work properly either.

As has been mentioned all ready the problem is not with the OS the problem is with the vendors who don't open up their source code, maybe you should write a letter to them instead of waffling on here about an issue you seem to have no grasp of?

this thread is about 'Why not Linux'? not working properly with a huge number of devices is one of the reasons why not to use Linux. that is a big problem for many users. and whether that stems from vendors not opening up source code is besides the point, the fact is these devices dont work. a user is not going to say 'oh well i dont mind that its not working, as the vendor didnt release source code', they are going to say 'f*&$ this its driving me mad trying to get this working'.

and why should vendors release source code anyway, they own the code and have spent tons of money on developing that code, why would they just release it and let all their competitors get their hands on it. but thats a bit irrelvant to this discussion anyway.

That's your opinion and you're entitled to it and I agree the majority of people should stay with something simple and srtraight forward and require little or no engadgemnt of their brain and gives them little choice. Then things break. glad you found something that suits your needs.

'simple and straightforward'...another plus point for windows. needless complexity is hidden, that is the sign of good design. and i dont see what you are talking about regarding 'gives them little choice'...choice of what? people uses pcs to browse the net, get some work done, play games, films, music...fiddling with operating system internals is a non-issue for just about everyone.

what are you talking about 'then things break'. things dont break on windows 7. linux is the operating system where things break and you cant get your wifi card/printer/broadband dongle/etc.. working with it.

ntlbell · 24-04-2012 10:27am

gimme5minutes wrote: »

another reason not to use linux, you have to check hardware requirements to make sure a mouse or network card will work with it.:rolleyes: it is a big negative for an operating system if it doesnt work with a whole heap of devices meaning you need to check compatibility before buying anything. so no only can it not run lots of software, it also doesnt work with lots of hardware.

Yes, 30 seconds to glance over support for your hardware again as I said it does require one to engadge their brain if someone is not capable of it then absoloutley don't bother with linux. so if not being a complete and utter retard is a reason not to use linux, you're 100% correct. it's not for you.

gimme5minutes wrote: »

i had a problem with a printer and broadband dongle when i started using linux. i already had these pieces of hardware, was i supposed to go out and buy a new printer and broadband dongle and bin the old ones? i actually did buy another dongle and that didnt work properly either.

No, I don't think linux was for you, as has all ready been figured out, it's not for everyone, you seem to be one of the examples of why it's not. or you're just _really_ unlucky.

gimme5minutes wrote: »

this thread is about 'Why not Linux'? not working properly with a huge number of devices is one of the reasons why not to use Linux. that is a big problem for many users. and whether that stems from vendors not opening up source code is besides the point, the fact is these devices dont work. a user is not going to say 'oh well i dont mind that its not working, as the vendor didnt release source code', they are going to say 'f*&$ this its driving me mad trying to get this working'.

As I said, i don't have these problems and I'm sure it's very difficult to find a machine made from one of the large manufactures where a linux won't work on them out of the box. I can't recall the last box I installed ubuntu on that didn't work out of the box. as much as people complain windows XP is been used as an example, maybe you're discussing really old versions of linux? because even since this thread started things have changed, in linux they change every hour. not every 4-6 years

gimme5minutes wrote: »

and why should vendors release source code anyway, they own the code and have spent tons of money on developing that code, why would they just release it and let all their competitors get their hands on it. but thats a bit irrelvant to this discussion anyway.

A lot of them do, if you look at OpenBSD a single guy writing to a mailing list can have a wifi manufacturer **** themselves and release the code very quickly. why cut yourself off? why reduce sales?

gimme5minutes wrote: »

'simple and straightforward'...another plus point for windows. needless complexity is hidden, that is the sign of good design. and i dont see what you are talking about regarding 'gives them little choice'...choice of what? people uses pcs to browse the net, get some work done, play games, films, music...fiddling with operating system internals is a non-issue for just about everyone.

Absoloutley,, as I said if you're a complete an utter moron, please do us all a favour and don't use linux life is too short.

gimme5minutes wrote: »

what are you talking about 'then things break'. things dont break on windows 7. linux is the operating system where things break and you cant get your wifi card/printer/broadband dongle/etc.. working with it.

maybe you should stop by a local pc repair shop and talk to some of the staff and ask them what nonsense they see.

I'm not going to sit here and explain very basic simple concepts to you.

syklops · 24-04-2012 10:28am

what are you talking about? there are no 'standards' that cover all operating system. each operating system has to specifically supported. thats their are different versions of device drivers for different OS's and different OS versions. MS dont support Linux, the same as most companys dont support it.

If thats the case, how do Generic drivers work? Why is it, that I can spin up Red Hat linux 7.3 from way back in 2001, and a brand new straight out of the box Logitech scroll mouse will work on it?

/me sighs perplexed.

This thread is getting ridiculous. It has basically turned into a fanboy versus anti-fanboy debate. Like the beer I had last night, lots of foam but very little substance. "Facts" are being trotted out with very little to back them up. Anecdotal evidence is being used to back up arguments; "My mouse didnt work on linux ergo linux sucks".

If I was a mod I would have closed and deleted this thread by now. This forum is about helping people with problems with Linux and other Unix-like OS, and sharing information on the topic. Learning and sharing is what Linux and its community is about, not bitching on the internet about whose computer can do more. I stopped taking part in such conversations when I was about 11 and got on with the learning new stuph aspect.

If Linux does not work for you either ask for help, file a bug report, or go back to windows.

BostonB · 24-04-2012 10:51am

Kinda of pointless asking people why they don't use Linux then deriding them, and name calling them for their responses. It doesn't make any sense to suggest you can't maintain a stable windows system but have no problem with all sorts of Linux issues, and claims to have no knowledge of IT when trying Linux, but in the same breath years of experience in IT, and of Windows problems.

You might ask bpb101 did they get the info they wanted. Because you can't choose the replies you get. Doesn't matter if someone is mis informed, that mis information is your reply for your poll.

I expect most people who don't use Linux had no need to. The OS comes free with their computer and they don't have enough problems with it, to change to something else.

Linux came with a lot of Netbooks. Thats probably been the biggest exposure its had for a long time? be interesting to consider how did that turn out?

PrzemoF · 24-04-2012 11:08am

gimme5minutes wrote: »

what are you talking about? there are no 'standards' that cover all operating system. each operating system has to specifically supported. thats their are different versions of device drivers for different OS's and different OS versions. MS dont support Linux, the same as most companys dont support it.

Please get familiar with [1] and say again that there are no standards for input devices...

syklops, I hope that the thread won't be closed. It might became compendium of FUD "facts"

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USB_human_interface_device_class

P.S. We made a step forward. We're not duscussing "what is linux", but "why I don't like linux"! :-)

pacquiao · 24-04-2012 11:14am

ntlbell any chance you can take off your linux underwear ?

ntlbell · 24-04-2012 11:20am

pacquiao wrote: »

ntlbell any chance you can take off your linux underwear ?

Beastie underwear if you don't mind.

pacquiao · 24-04-2012 11:36am

was waiting for something alone those lines :mad:

gimme5minutes · 24-04-2012 11:39am

PrzemoF wrote: »

Please get familiar with [1] and say again that there are no standards for input devices...

syklops, I hope that the thread won't be closed. It might became compendium of FUD "facts"

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USB_human_interface_device_class

P.S. We made a step forward. We're not duscussing "what is linux", but "why I don't like linux"! :-)

yet again you are posting irrelevant stuff. that is a standard for writing USB compatible devices. you were talking about microsoft not writing their device drivers to a some cross platform standard that would mean those devices would work with linux. there is no such standard. there is no cross platform standard for devices such that you write to the standard and it works on windows, mac and linux. go learn some assembly code and system architecture and youll understand why.

gimme5minutes · 24-04-2012 11:48am

syklops wrote: »

If thats the case, how do Generic drivers work? Why is it, that I can spin up Red Hat linux 7.3 from way back in 2001, and a brand new straight out of the box Logitech scroll mouse will work on it?

/me sighs perplexed.

do you not understand that it is not possible to have cross platform device drivers by the nature of windows/mac/linux being different platforms. this isnt like regular software that can be written using a cross platform language, the assembly code (and c) that is used to write device drivers is specific to the platform. linux assembly will not work on windows and vice versa, they are syntactically different and they are implemented differently to handle the way things are done differently by each operating system.

that logitech mouse works because their mice all interface with the OS in the same way because logitech must have a common standard for their mice. it is not a generic driver in the cross-platform sense it is a generic Linux only driver, there is no such thing as a cross-platform driver.

gimme5minutes · 24-04-2012 12:03pm

ntlbell wrote: »

Yes, 30 seconds to glance over support for your hardware again as I said it does require one to engadge their brain if someone is not capable of it then absoloutley don't bother with linux. so if not being a complete and utter retard is a reason not to use linux, you're 100% correct. it's not for you.

its more pointless crap you have to go through to use linux. checking up if hardware will work with it, you havent had to do that on windows in over 20 years.

As I said, i don't have these problems and I'm sure it's very difficult to find a machine made from one of the large manufactures where a linux won't work on them out of the box. I can't recall the last box I installed ubuntu on that didn't work out of the box. as much as people complain windows XP is been used as an example, maybe you're discussing really old versions of linux? because even since this thread started things have changed, in linux they change every hour. not every 4-6 years

im sure there are massive changes happening every hour...there is feck all changing, big changes happen over the course over years, they are not happening hourly or daily or whatever timeframe you seem to be suggesting. significant changes happen with about much frequency as windows/mac. i have ubuntu on virtual box for assembly programming and there is feck all difference between this ubuntu and the one i was using 3 years ago.

and you would be dumb to start running the latest version of linux that comes out. the amount of times ive seen people complaining when they upgraded to the latest version of ubuntu and it was worse than the previous version and/or stuff didnt work with it. in the community you will have people saying dont use this version or that version as there are recognised good and bad versions.

Absoloutley,, as I said if you're a complete an utter moron, please do us all a favour and don't use linux life is too short.

maybe you should stop by a local pc repair shop and talk to some of the staff and ask them what nonsense they see.

I'm not going to sit here and explain very basic simple concepts to you.

i dont know why you think you are so clever for using linux. if you had any sense and were impartial you would be using windows 7. it is better in every way as a personal operating system, the reasons for using linux disappeared once w7 came out and fixed all the issues with xp and vista.

gimme5minutes · 24-04-2012 12:04pm

im out of this thread ill you to it guys

syklops · 24-04-2012 12:22pm

gimme5minutes wrote: »

do you not understand that it is not possible to have cross platform device drivers by the nature of windows/mac/linux being different platforms. this isnt like regular software that can be written using a cross platform language, the assembly code (and c) that is used to write device drivers is specific to the platform. linux assembly will not work on windows and vice versa, they are syntactically different and they are implemented differently to handle the way things are done differently by each operating system.

More sighing on my end.

Well actually the Assembly that is used is specific to the architecture, not the platform. There isn't anything inherently different in windows and linux assembly, aside from the fact that Linux utilises the int 0x80 interface to the kernel and has static syscall addresses, where as in windows the address of the functions can vary from version to version and has no direct kernel interface. Even then a bit of clever programming can get around that small issue.

linux assembly will not work on windows and vice versa, they are syntactically different and they are implemented differently to handle the way things are done differently by each operating system.

No they arent. You can take code meant for the likes of MASM(Microsoft Assembler), and use it on jWASM, and most of it will work with no alterations whatsoever.

gimme5minutes wrote: »

that logitech mouse works because their mice all interface with the OS in the same way because logitech must have a common standard for their mice. it is not a generic driver in the cross-platform sense it is a generic Linux only driver, there is no such thing as a cross-platform driver.

This is the funny bit. So the logitech mouse probably works because of some kind of standard then? Good to know.

PrzemoF · 24-04-2012 12:33pm

gimme5minutes wrote: »

[..]you were talking about microsoft not writing their device drivers to a some cross platform standard that would mean those devices would work with linux.[..]

I really don't want ms to make a special mouse driver for linux (it would mean that I have to reinstall it every time I have a new kernel). Using standards is more than enough to make a mouse work with linux/freebsd/haiku/you name it without any special driver - the "driver" is already there.

Johnboy1951 · 24-04-2012 12:53pm

i dont know why you think you are so clever for using linux. if you had any sense and were impartial you would be using windows 7. it is better in every way as a personal operating system, the reasons for using linux disappeared once w7 came out and fixed all the issues with xp and vista.

You are entitled to your opinion ...... but bear in mind that is all that it is, and others do not necessarily hold a similar opinion.

I have Win7 and linux on my laptop.
Yes Win7 is definitely the Best Windows OS to date.
That is true.
Of course comparing it to the previous Win OSs makes that an easy task.

The only reason I booted into Win 7 since Xmas was to unlock a USB drive that my daughters Window's had made unwriteable.

My opinion is completely contrary to yours.
But again it is just that .... an opinion.

I have found no reason to use Win 7.

My only hardware experience lately has been my daughter's purchase of a graphics tablet - a cheapie Silvercrest thing.

She unpacked, plugged it in, and did the usual insert CD and install software etc etc ........ only to find the tablet did not work.
After she gave up, after a few attempts, I plugged it into my Linux PC ..... and it worked.
She tested it, using GIMP on my PC, and was delighted that the hardware was functioning correctly.

Does that mean plugging in new hardware sucks on Win 7?
Nope, not in my opinion.
But certainly in that case it was a failure, while Linux handled the hardware without cause to install anything or otherwise do any of the alleged things posted in this thread.

Absolutely no conclusions can be drawn from my experience.

Neither am I about to make general statements based on that experience.

I use Linux because it does what I need; does it better than Windows ever did; is cost free; is not encumbered by an extremely restrictive EULA, which means I can treat the OS as if it is mine ..... not something with a restrictive licence, the terms of which caused me to look for alternatives years ago.

Those who do not have such preferences are best served to stick with Win, pay the fees, abide by the restrictive licence, and have their PC regularly serviced by their local PC repair person.

I wish them luck.

I prefer freedom and lack of restrictions.

gimme5minutes · 24-04-2012 1:58pm

syklops wrote: »

More sighing on my end.

Well actually the Assembly that is used is specific to the architecture, not the platform. There isn't anything inherently different in windows and linux assembly, aside from the fact that Linux utilises the int 0x80 interface to the kernel and has static syscall addresses, where as in windows the address of the functions can vary from version to version and has no direct kernel interface. Even then a bit of clever programming can get around that small issue.

obviously windows and linux assembly both run on the same architecture. but the assembly code will need to be written will be specific to each platform which is exactly what I said already. they both handle the same instruction set but they are different, not just syntactically but the code needs to be written differently to interface with different operating systems. so what are you sighing about, this is a fact, a device driver needs to be written specifically for an operating system.

No they arent. You can take code meant for the likes of MASM(Microsoft Assembler), and use it on jWASM, and most of it will work with no alterations whatsoever.

we are talking about the assembly used for device drivers, that is what we are discussing here. we are not talking about getting the cpu to add 3 to 5 and store the result in eax. we are talking about making device drivers work with an OS and be able to deal with the way the differents OSes will have completely seperate ways of doing things at this low level.

This is the funny bit. So the logitech mouse probably works because of some kind of standard then? Good to know.

for god sake he was talking about ms devices not working on linux because ms didnt use a standard. There is no cross platform standard for device drivers. every company will naturally have their own standards for their devices though which is why the logitech mouse works.

Why not Linux

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