Why not Linux

c_man

croo wrote: »

Unless it's running your phone, tv or multimedia centre perhaps?

Fair enough point, though I was referring to home pc/laptop use.

PS. I often wonder why there is a windows forum on boards... I mean it is sooo easy to use I cannot understand how anyone is having any questions or problems.

I would argue that it is far easier to use from a customer POV in certain respects. Most of the peripherals in use are tested against Windows and OS X, and a lot of the issues ironed out. When was the last time you saw on a mouse box which Linux distros are supported?

conor.hogan.2

c_man wrote: »

When was the last time you saw on a mouse box which Linux distros are supported?

When was the last time you had a mouse that did not work in Linux?

c_man

conor.hogan.2 wrote: »

When was the last time you had a mouse that did not work in Linux?

The scroll function of a Thinkpad integrated mouse didn't work, making it pretty much unusable. Had to go messing about to get it going. That was around October/Nov. The around Christmas I encountered an unusual error with a set of fairly standard speakers where the volume couldn't go as high as they can on Windows (up to 11 :pac: ). Fairly annoying and I did a fair bit of research on the matter to no avail. After that I pretty gave up on Linux for home devices. I'll probably get a RasberryPi to play around with but desktop is out for me.

syklops

c_man wrote: »

The scroll function of a Thinkpad integrated mouse didn't work, making it pretty much unusable. Had to go messing about to get it going. That was around October/Nov. The around Christmas I encountered an unusual error with a set of fairly standard speakers where the volume couldn't go as high as they can on Windows (up to 11 :pac: ). Fairly annoying and I did a fair bit of research on the matter to no avail. After that I pretty gave up on Linux for home devices. I'll probably get a RasberryPi to play around with but desktop is out for me.

Interesting, what kind of Thinkpad was it? And which distro?

I ask because many Linux devs use thinkpads, so usually everything works fine for Thinkpads.

ntlbell

I've had thinkpads for years and never had any problem with any of them.

I'll almost always recommend a thinkpad when someone mentions a laptop for *nix

c_man

syklops wrote: »

Interesting, what kind of Thinkpad was it? And which distro?

I ask because many Linux devs use thinkpads, so usually everything works fine for Thinkpads.

That's what I thought as well. An R-61, a bit of an older model so added to the Thinkpad brand I thought it's be fine. Tried a few distros (all to the same result) before getting it working on Ubuntu.

I love my Thinkpads too

PrzemoF

c_man wrote: »

[..]The around Christmas I encountered an unusual error with a set of fairly standard speakers where the volume couldn't go as high as they can on Windows (up to 11 :pac: ). Fairly annoying and I did a fair bit of research on the matter to no avail. [..]

You mean some audio card, I suppose?

Producer/model? (or just result of "lspci" - not sure if there is a windows counterpart for that command)

c_man

I suppose device manager. I don't have those details at hand (Linux was removed and in addition the hd is bust, awaiting a new one).


Edit: It didn't look like an audio card issue as far as I recall i.e. a friends speakers worked fine.

PrzemoF

OK, I'm missing something here. How you can change the volume of speakers (unless it's a physical knob)? Volume is audio card setting and has nothing to do with speakers.

c_man

Yes... I never said it was a straight forward problem.

KAGY

Groinshot wrote: »

This was my first break on Ubuntu.
sudo chmod -4 755 /
Forgot the . in front of /

oops.

0nly recently did sudo chown -R .* thinking it would change the owner ship of all hidden files and folders in a home directory copied from another disk. Obviously that also matches .. so it changed ownership on everyones home, including mysql (I keep the dbs in hometo prevent losing them when var is formatted during an install)
Not the end of the world but not nice either

wandererz

So...

Just installed Linux Mint on Vostro 1500 laptop. All seemingly good.
Although boot time compared to Windows 8 is slower.

Went to install Skype and updater/installer package froze.

Haven't had that problem on a windows machine before strangely enough considering all the negatives mentioned here about windows.

Anyway, i'm willing to give it a go again in addition to the other times i've tried Ubuntu etc. At least this time graphics & wireless etc installed seemlessly.

So, whats the deal with the frozen app? On a windows machine a CTRL ALT DEL allows for the task manager to be brought up and for the app to be killed. Wouldn#t shut down and wouldn't allow anything else to be installed.

A REBOOT of this newly installed linux system sorted it out. Haven't had to do that for some time now on the other operating system.

Whats the story here? What magic sudo terminal command do i have to perform to kill such an app?

Just interested from an intuitive usability point of view, because that's what's going to sell this to the masses.

And while we're at it, on a windows machine there's a neat little box in any of the window/file manager panes to type in a location e.g. \\192.168.1.1 to navigate to a server/folder etc on the LAN.

How's this done? I could read a manual somewhere or the other but like most of the general population i couldn't be arsed.

So how are these things done in this great OS then?

Also, why does it take a download of 245 files and about 10 mins just to install skype? And when i do it still doesn't have the same usability/functionality/look feel as on every other windows OS out there.

errm, just to note that this isn't an attack. I'm just annoyed and perhaps that comes across in my writing.

BTW i'm typing this from a Vostro laptop running linux mint 13.

So don't crucify me. Just help me.

Johnboy1951

How's this done? I could read a manual somewhere or the other but like most of the general population i couldn't be arsed.

I couldn't be arsed spending my time answering ..... do some reading or forget about it!

wandererz

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

I couldn't be arsed spending my time answering ..... do some reading or forget about it!

But that's just it isn't it.

Trying to tell my 70 year old aunt to go read a manual and/or do an ALT+F2 then type in sudo xkill etc.

It's just not flippin intuitive.

The whole point of IT is to make life easier and mask stuff from the end user. The gameplan isn't just IT for IT's sake ... or am i missing something here.

But thanks for reading that far down anyway.

Khannie

On the hang: I've never seen that happen. The general rule is that you don't have to reboot linux unless it's a new kernel. I nearly never just "reboot" to try to fix a problem.

Also, for the most part, people here would acknowledge that windows is a fine OS at this point. It's come a long way from the crashy-crash-crash days of windows 95.

wandererz wrote: »

Also, why does it take a download of 245 files and about 10 mins just to install skype? And when i do it still doesn't have the same usability/functionality/look feel as on every other windows OS out there.

This is because skype for linux has a lot of dependencies. They are all i386 (i.e. 32bit) dependencies and I'm guessing you have a 64bit OS. That is an issue with Skype and not the OS. FYI: There is a new version 4.0 out which probably has more of the whizz bang that you want. I find Skype on windows to be overly intrusive myself. I remember it once informed me: "You have Skype credit. Why not phone a friend." and all I could think was "would you ever fup off".

Khannie

wandererz wrote: »

It's just not flippin intuitive.

It is less intuitive than Windows. I will grant you that, no question (IMO). Once you overcome the initial learning though, it is a far nicer, more intuitive way to get things done. You have control over more or less *everything* in a way that is just painted over in Windows. I could never imagine going back to Windows at this stage, though I found the transition to Linux hard enough at the time (it would be easier now).

matrim

wandererz wrote: »

But that's just it isn't it.

Trying to tell my 70 year old aunt to go read a manual and/or do an ALT+F2 then type in sudo xkill etc.

It's just not flippin intuitive.

The whole point of IT is to make life easier and mask stuff from the end user. The gameplan isn't just IT for IT's sake ... or am i missing something here.

But thanks for reading that far down anyway.

Menu -> System Tools -> System Monitor (May be slightly different menu layout on Mint). Similar to task manager in windows.

And while we're at it, on a windows machine there's a neat little box in any of the window/file manager panes to type in a location e.g. \\192.168.1.1 to navigate to a server/folder etc on the LAN.

Ctrl + L (or go -> location) will bring up the location view and let you type in the address.

There used to be a button beside the location "breadcrumbs" to bring this up easily but I don't see it in Nautilus in gnome 3. If you want this to be the default view I think you have to change a gconf setting but am not sure.

Johnboy1951

wandererz wrote: »

But that's just it isn't it.

Trying to tell my 70 year old aunt to go read a manual and/or do an ALT+F2 then type in sudo xkill etc.

It is you who said you couldn't be arsed .... not your aunt.

If you wish to encourage someone to use a computer, who has never used one before, then you are taking the responsibility of teaching them. Face that responsibility by knowing how to use the OS or forget it.
It doesn't matter what OS is on the computer, the same thing applies.

It's just not flippin intuitive.

The whole point of IT is to make life easier and mask stuff from the end user. The gameplan isn't just IT for IT's sake ... or am i missing something here.

But thanks for reading that far down anyway.

Not as I understand it.
I think you might mean the point of GUI tools is to make what can be done, easier to access, in a more user-friendly way.

There is little more or less intuitive in any of the more popular OSs.
If you become used to using one, there will be things on the others that do not behave in an expected way.

If your 70 (or 17) year old aunt is used to Windows ways, and has no real need/wish to change OS, then why bother?
If the need is there, then some learning/re-learning is needed.
This applies equally to someone who has used Linux only and tries to use Windows. A very frustrating experience which will only be overcome if there is a need.

yawha

Khannie wrote: »

You have control over more or less *everything* in a way that is just painted over in Windows.

Some things might be a little more opaque in Windows, but I don't think there's all that much you can do in Linux (at least things you would actually want to do) that can't be done in Windows.

Personally, I find that Linux is a little more accessible if you're a techy/hacker who wants to mess around with your OS, break things, fix things, and generally see how everything works. This leads to lots of power users using Linux and making the false assumption that you can't do anything similar in Windows.

PrzemoF

yawha wrote: »

Some things might be a little more opaque in Windows, but I don't think there's all that much you can do in Linux (at least things you would actually want to do) that can't be done in Windows.

Here you go: every morinig seach for an error message in a text log and email/send a text message if the error is in the log.

Easy on linux and goooood luck on windows (unless you find a specialised software that can do it)!

puffishoes

PrzemoF wrote: »

Here you go: every morinig seach for an error message in a text log and email/send a text message if the error is in the log.

Easy on linux and goooood luck on windows (unless you find a specialised software that can do it)!

cgywin?

BostonB

Maybe you mean this?

http://blogs.technet.com/b/jhoward/archive/2010/06/16/getting-event-log-contents-by-email-on-an-event-log-trigger.aspx

http://www.howtogeek.com/69551/how-to-create-your-own-windows-event-log-notification-system/

Khannie

yawha wrote: »

This leads to lots of power users using Linux and making the false assumption that you can't do anything similar in Windows.

I don't think I'm one of those. I used to be intimate with Windows.

PrzemoF

Nice!! But, wait... the first comment under the article says that you can't just search for "error" or "warning" and an event id has to be given.

So a line in cron config file doing 'grep -I "error" some_log' piped to an email program is not doable?

I'm just flaming here. Windows is good for basic tasks that require user interaction. If you want to automate/script anything linux is miles ahead..

mach1982

Can she ( or you ) use google?

Linux makes you think when your using it, you actual have to user your brain.Using windows is like using a chisel and stone to on write on , using Linux is like using a fountain pen , it elegant ever if the odd blot ever now and then.

And the only reason the Crtl-alt-del is more common than kill, it's the Microsoft way, and they forced their product on people.

What version of Mint are you using , usually the version the repositories aren't the latest.So I recommended install it from source .Quite easy plenty of articles , you just have to Google.

You think Linux in , not intuitive to use wait till windows 8.

Stark

mach1982 wrote: »

Can she ( or you ) use google?

Linux makes you think when your using it, you actual have to user your brain..

That's a pretty damning indictment of a user interface.

BostonB

PrzemoF wrote: »

Nice!! But, wait... the first comment under the article says that you can't just search for "error" or "warning" and an event id has to be given.

So a line in cron config file doing 'grep -I "error" some_log' piped to an email program is not doable?

I'm just flaming here. Windows is good for basic tasks that require user interaction. If you want to automate/script anything linux is miles ahead..

I'm sure it is, it was just the first thing I found on google. You could schedule a dump of the event log to a text file then have a script to scan it. But tbh its not something 99% of users will be doing. Its more a server task, and then there's other mean of achieving that on a server. Any time I'm doing things like its probably a scheduled job on a server and there's usually some reporting mechanism within that, than can be scripted for handling errors.

mach1982

Stark wrote: »

That's a pretty damning indictment of a user interface.

I'm not call people who us windows stupid , it just I find that people today don't think. They they are so use to doing something one way , the never even realize there is a another to do it which might be faster. ie in windows press the windows key is same as clicking start.

yawha

PrzemoF wrote: »

Here you go: every morinig seach for an error message in a text log and email/send a text message if the error is in the log.

Easy on linux and goooood luck on windows (unless you find a specialised software that can do it)!

Eh? What? There are multiple, simple ways of doing this in Windows.

Personally, I would use PowerShell to schedule a daily job which would read the log file, grep (select-string) for "error" or "warning", pipe the results to a scriptblock which would handle the interaction with the text messaging program.

Something like:

Register-ScheduledJob -Name "Whatever" -Trigger (New-JobTrigger -Daily -At 8am) -ScriptBlock { Get-Content mylog.log | Select-String "error","warning" | %{ .\textmessageprogram.exe $_ } }

(I usually use cmdlet aliases when writing stuff like that. You can use "cat" instead of "Get-Content", and I have "ss" for "Select-String" etc.)

If we're talking about a Windows event log rather than a text file, you'd do something similar, but with the Get-EventLog cmdlet rather than Get-Content. All pretty basic and simple.

druidhill

bpb101 wrote: »

This is just something i cant understand. Why do people not use linux?

The people you refer to here will never look at this thread - that's the problem.

Personally, as someone in IT, I always go back to Windows - Windows for my desktop, Linux or similar for server OS (and that is strictly command line).