A 250kg deadlift is nothing anymore

d'Oracle

ray jay wrote: »

Yeah clearly in that case it's ok, but the way I described it in my previous post, it would be like if someone ran a 9.5s 100m in a decathlon but the stand alone 100m record stayed at 9.58.

Well it wouldn't because on one hand your talking about something that is quite likely to happen, where as the other one is safe to assume will never happen.

kevpants

Will all my throwaway comments be made into threads from here on in? I didn't find The Hangover funny. Discuss.

The deadlift clearly suits some people more than others but I'm just amazed at how good these guys are as beginners. Hope they don't become dissolusioned when the gains stop coming so easy. Which they do for everyone.

I always think that smaller guys who are built to deadlift and who pull massive numbers in comparison to their size might be more susceptable to injury too. Tom Martin's a good example, he's a mess now.

the drifter

kevpants wrote: »

Will all my throwaway comments be made into threads from here on in? I didn't find The Hangover funny. Discuss.

The deadlift clearly suits some people more than others but I'm just amazed at how good these guys are as beginners. Hope they don't become dissolusioned when the gains stop coming so easy. Which they do for everyone.

I always think that smaller guys who are built to deadlift and who pull massive numbers in comparison to their size might be more susceptable to injury too. Tom Martin's a good example, he's a mess now.

Only when they server as something to keep the kids on the forum from childish bickering...

ray jay

d'Oracle wrote: »

Well it wouldn't because on one hand your talking about something that is quite likely to happen, where as the other one is safe to assume will never happen.

Cool pedantry which completely misses the point. You shouldn't be able to claim a record for a weaker lift performed under easier circumstances.

kevpants

ray jay wrote: »

Cool pedantry which completely misses the point. You shouldn't be able to claim a record for a weaker lift performed under easier circumstances.

Think of it as a record in that competition. Like a championship record in athletics. It's not necessarily the best lift ever completed but it is in that competition.

Da Za

So we're back to the records debate!

Yes there are single lift records and full power records. I don't know why you're getting so caught up on this.

Records are going to be broken time and time again, unless you're in the upper echalon you shouldn't really consider it.

You get into this game to get stronger and stronger, beat your on PR's. Like Hanley has said and I know some top lifters feel the same that they are only thinking about themselves and not what other lifters are doing.

If you're thinking about others and placing, you're in this sport for the wrong reasons.

Slightly off point, I apologise.

d'Oracle

ray jay wrote: »

Cool pedantry which completely misses the point. You shouldn't be able to claim a record for a weaker lift performed under easier circumstances.

Its not pedantry, there is nothing overly precise about it.
Your analogy was woeful, there is literally no logical parallel between the two cases.

Tbh I'm struggling to see what your problem is.
A single lifts competition is a different competition with different record books as far as I can see.

Edit: It was however pedantic to point out that you incorrectly used the word Pedantry.

Hanley

d'Oracle wrote: »

Its not pedantry, there is nothing overly precise about it.
Your analogy was woeful, there is literally no logical parallel between the two cases.

Tbh I'm struggling to see what your problem is.
A single lifts competition is a different competition with different record books as far as I can see.

Edit: It was however pedantic to point out that you incorrectly used the word Pedantry.

The competition lifts are the same regardless of whether they're done in full power or single lift comps. The former has unfavorable conditions to the latter (squat aside). It makes no sense for a world record done in favorable conditions to be lower than that done in unfavorable conditions for the exact.same.lift.

He makes perfect sense.

d'Oracle

Hanley wrote: »

The competition lifts are the same regardless of whether they're done in full power or single lift comps. The former has unfavorable conditions to the latter (squat aside). It makes no sense for a world record done in favorable conditions to be lower than that done in unfavorable conditions for the exact.same.lift.

He makes perfect sense.

Let me just lay this out so we are all on the same page.
We are too accept that there is a parallel between:

1) someone setting a record in either bench or deadlift as a single lift as distinct from performing one in a full powerlifting competition where the three lifts are performed

and

2) Setting a record in 100m alone as distinct from performing one in a competition which involves,
100m, Long Jump, Shot put, High Jump, 400m, 110m Hurdles, Discus, Pole Vault, Javelin and 1500m?

You have driven the car off the cliff you find at the end of applicability. This is not mathematics. If you run a 9.5sec 100m you are not a decathlete and if you are a decathlete you don't set records in individual events. If you are a powerlifter, you might just set records in full total events and single lifts.

I know you love to contradict folks and especially folks who don't pander to yourself, but this is beyond mental. There is no comparison, one side is unfavorable conditions the other is different sports.

Also, as I said, as far as I can see, single lift and full power have separate record books where I have looked (WDFPF and IPF)

the drifter

Lads/Ladies/Elite Athletes attack the post not the poster please.

Hanley

d'Oracle wrote: »

Let me just lay this out so we are all on the same page.
We are too accept that there is a parallel between:

1) someone setting a record in either bench or deadlift as a single lift as distinct from performing one in a full powerlifting competition where the three lifts are performed

and

2) Setting a record in 100m alone as distinct from performing one in a competition which involves,
100m, Long Jump, Shot put, High Jump, 400m, 110m Hurdles, Discus, Pole Vault, Javelin and 1500m?

You have driven the car off the cliff you find at the end of applicability. This is not mathematics. If you run a 9.5sec 100m you are not a decathlete and if you are a decathlete you don't set records in individual events. If you are a powerlifter, you might just set records in full total events and single lifts.

I know you love to contradict folks and especially folks who don't pander to yourself, but this is beyond mental. There is no comparison, one side is unfavorable conditions the other is different sports.

Also, as I said, as far as I can see, single lift and full power have separate record books where I have looked (WDFPF and IPF)

Total politician's answer. You haven't actually addressed the point, just the analogy. Little digs aside, I'm still waiting to hear a definition of how a "world record" in an event can be lower than the highest weight ever lifted in the same event done under unfavorable conditions.

dartstothesea

It just can be, isn't that the way the fed's rules around setting the records works. You can still call it a record in the more general sense - the sense that it's the highest of it's kind.
I don't think anyone's claiming it makes sense that the bigger lift done under unfavourable conditions couldn't be the record. It's just the rules they have. I mean, you may as well be giving out that a potential biggest lift ever of all time at the IDFPAs there might not have been a record if the lifter wasn't a member of the fed. Or you could start just looking at the biggest lift across a number of feds and thinking of it as the only true record. It all depends what arbitrary divisions between comps you're willing to subscribe to.

dartstothesea

Being in a lighter weight class is probably an unfavourable condition for deadlifts too. I suppose the 110kg winner shouldn't get his medal if a 90kg lifter out-pulled him. I'm not really even being sarcastic there, it makes plenty of sense but I know that's just not the way the fed's rules work. And I know hardly anything at all about the sport.

Hanley

dartstothesea wrote: »

It just can be, isn't that the way the fed's rules around setting the records works. You can still call it a record in the more general sense - the sense that it's the highest of it's kind.
I don't think anyone's claiming it makes sense that the bigger lift done under unfavourable conditions couldn't be the record. It's just the rules they have. I mean, you may as well be giving out that a potential biggest lift ever of all time at the IDFPAs there might not have been a record if the lifter wasn't a member of the fed. Or you could start just looking at the biggest lift across a number of feds and thinking of it as the only true record. It all depends what arbitrary divisions between comps you're willing to subscribe to.

When someone says "world record" in ANY other normal sport, what do you think?! Something about best ever, maybe?!

But in powerlifting every "world" record is hyper qualified. It's bull****.

Hanley

dartstothesea wrote: »

Being in a lighter weight class is probably an unfavourable condition for deadlifts too. I suppose the 110kg winner shouldn't get his medal if a 90kg lifter out-pulled him. I'm not really even being sarcastic there, it makes plenty of sense but I know that's just not the way the fed's rules work. And I know hardly anything at all about the sport.

Wow. Just wow

dartstothesea

If you're amazed at something I didn't know about the rules of the sport, you know, I did mention something about that and all. I don't pride myself on knowing this so it's grand.

Hanley

dartstothesea wrote: »

If you're amazed at something I didn't know about the rules of the sport, you know, I did mention something about that and all. I don't pride myself on knowing this so it's grand.

I actually genuninely have no idea how to answer you on the 90 v 110 DL scenario.

I think I'll go over to the athletics forum and tell them that whoever runs the fastest time in the heats/qualifiers for next sunmer's 100m sprint should get gold even if not done in the final since that's clearly the best time.

Feisar

It's the same gig in boxing. Champ/Super Champ/Interim Champ and all the different organisations. I'm sure other sports suffer from the same affliction.

dartstothesea

Hanley wrote: »

I actually genuninely have no idea how to answer you on the 90 v 110 DL scenario.

I think I'll go over to the athletics forum and tell them that whoever runs the fastest time in the heats/qualifiers for next sunmer's 100m sprint should get gold even if not done in the final since that's clearly the best time.

So I think you see my point then. The division of competition is there for a reason. It's obvious you'll disagree but I see the 90kg v 110kg issue as analgous to the Full lifts v Single lift thing.

Hanley

dartstothesea wrote: »

So I think you see my point then. The division of competition is there for a reason. It's obvious you'll disagree but I see the 90kg v 110kg issue as analgous to the Full lifts v Single lift thing.

And that's exactly why there's a bodyweight coefficient for overall best lifter. So the best guy wins overall (the true "world record" in this scenario)?

Edwardius

d'Oracle and Hanley, cut it out

dartstothesea

Hanley wrote: »

And that's exactly why there's a bodyweight coefficient for overall best lifter. So the best guy wins overall (the true "world record" in this scenario)?

Well, yeah, that sounds logical to me. I wasn't really aware if competitions actually gave anything out for that (the bodyweight coefficient thing), but all else being equal, the guy pulling XYZkg at the lighter bodyweight has generally done something better in my view, yeah. I would also acknowledge the fed's definition of the record as per the divisions in place though.

squod

Hanley wrote: »

When someone says "world record" in ANY other normal sport, what do you think?! Something about best ever, maybe?!

But in powerlifting every "world" record is hyper qualified. It's bull****.

From my perspective, I find it interesting. It shows the sport is still in some kind of 'growing up' state.

The way it is now the average athlete has lots of opportunity and therefore drive to try beat what ever fed's world record there is. I'm sure everyone knows to check in with powerlifting watch.com to see how they compare like for like.

If in ten years time the sport is unified I guarantee some of the magic will be lost.

Edwardius

Right, I've deleted a bunch of snarky crap and reopened the thread. If subsequent posts aren't about weak 250kg, deadlifts, records and the very serious business of lifting weights there will be banning

Skull

Could the fact that 250kg deadlifts arent as extraordinary as they were before have something to do with the increased volume of competitors in powerlifting today.

There was a massive turnout for the IDFPA single lifts, probably the biggest ever & I've been told that the national 3 lifts in Killarney is going to be even bigger.

The sport is just more popular now

Sorry if this has already been covered but thats the first reason that springs into my mind.

dartstothesea

Actually, it's mainly because polar ice melting on a massive scale has caused a shift in the axis of rotation of the earth, affecting gravity at latitudes approximately the same as Ireland's. It's only going to get worse and we're all going to die but we'll probably all pull 300 at least before we go.

COH

Skull wrote: »

Could the fact that 250kg deadlifts arent as extraordinary as they were before have something to do with the increased volume of competitors in powerlifting today.

There was a massive turnout for the IDFPA single lifts, probably the biggest ever & I've been told that the national 3 lifts in Killarney is going to be even bigger.

The sport is just more popular now.

The ever increasing use of forums, youtube, blogs combind with the growth of the sport in the mainstream means that there is a hugely increased awareness of the numbers being put up not just around the country but globally. 250 is still the same legit big pull it ever was we are just aware now that there are people capable of it all over the place (apart from ItsallaboutheL).

PL is a brilliantly accessible sport, but WRs etc shouldnt matter. Aside from the billion different feds we all know someone that could probably clean up if they bothered competing, we know what the actual biggest raw and equipped lifts ever are, if your name isnt on that list you arent a world record holder! I have a medal from a world championship... am I top three in the world!?? Give me a break!

If you have the stones to get up on a platform and try to out do your own previous bests i take my hat off to you because it takes guts. If those efforts get your name on a records list then all the better, its an achievement in itself, but lets not pretend that that list makes you the nation or worlds strongest guy

Skull

COH wrote: »

The ever increasing use of forums, youtube, blogs combind with the growth of the sport in the mainstream means that there is a hugely increased awareness of the numbers being put up not just around the country but globally. 250 is still the same legit big pull it ever was we are just aware now that there are people capable of it all over the place (apart from ItsallaboutheL).

PL is a brilliantly accessible sport, but WRs etc shouldnt matter. Aside from the billion different feds we all know someone that could probably clean up if they bothered competing, we know what the actual biggest raw and equipped lifts ever are, if your name isnt on that list you arent a world record holder! I have a medal from a world championship... am I top three in the world!?? Give me a break!

If you have the stones to get up on a platform and try to out do your own previous bests i take my hat off to you because it takes guts. If those efforts get your name on a records list then all the better, its an achievement in itself, but lets not pretend that that list makes you the nation or worlds strongest guy

I agree with the first paragraph.

What do records or medals have to do with it though? Sorry still getting used to these forums.

COH

Skull wrote: »

What do records or medals have to do with it though? Sorry still getting used to these forums.

Wasnt aimed at you or your post, just the thread (and its IDFPA thread origin)

Skull

COH wrote: »

Wasnt aimed at you or your post, just the thread (and its IDFPA thread origin)

No prob I missed all the other stuff.