A 250kg deadlift is nothing anymore

the drifter · 08-02-2012 12:51am #1

kevpants wrote: »

Thought I was reading powerliftingwatch for a second there. Nice to see the "James Hanley mentioned someone... let's get him!"culture is still active in powerlifting even if he isn't.

What's with all the kids who can pull more plates than they have pubes? A 250kg deadlift is nothing anymore.

So kev has a point...where the feck are all these big lifters coming from...a few years back seeing someone pulling 300kg was a big thing... in the past 3 months ive seen more 300kg deadlifts than ive had pizzas.

Is it because powerlifting as a sport has progressed and that there is more lifters willing to chase the dream of a 300kg deadlift.

discuss!

* yes im trying to break away from the IDFPA thread...:p

Nervous Wreck · 08-02-2012 1:13am

You need more pizza, bro.

Silverscott · 08-02-2012 1:14am

There is a lot of juice been used nowdays by the young lads thats for sure.

J-Fit · 08-02-2012 1:31am

the drifter wrote: »

So kev has a point...where the feck are all these big lifters coming from...a few years back seeing someone pulling 300kg was a big thing... in the past 3 months ive seen more 300kg deadlifts than ive had pizzas.

Is it because powerlifting as a sport has progressed and that there is more lifters willing to chase the dream of a 300kg deadlift.

discuss!

* yes im trying to break away from the IDFPA thread...:p

Statistical anomaly. A 250kg pull is a good lift, always will be for guys of a certain size. It only every gives one third of the total picture too so it might be more relevant to focus on actual totals.

If you look at the boy Hickey's lifts, the deadlift is a little out of proportion with the other two. I'd usually expect a max lift back squat to be in excess of 65% of a max lift deadlift. Maybe the other guys are similar, I haven't checked out the results.

Then there is the issue of performance enhancing supplements but this is the IDFPA so maybe not so much a factor. Who knows.

Hanley · 08-02-2012 8:59am

Deadlifts tend to be god given whereas squats and benches are earned in my experience.

What I mean by that is that it's not entirely unusual to see someone pull massive weights with minimal training and terrible technique, but you never see them squat something as comparably impressive without significant time under the bar.

And powerlifting is a three lift sport anyway - I'm more impressed with a rounded lifter than a one trick pony (stallion?).

d'Oracle · 08-02-2012 9:01am

Throw away comment made into a thread.

Maybe the sport is just getting more popular as more gyms with barbells and plates open around the country. Maybe then some of the kids who are better predisposed to pulling big weights are getting exposed to the deadlift and trying their hands in comps.
I can think of 4 off hand.

250 is still a good pull, its far from nothing.

d'Oracle · 08-02-2012 9:05am

Hanley wrote: »

Deadlifts tend to be god given whereas squats and benches are earned in my experience.

What I mean by that is that it's not entirely unusual to see someone pull massive weights with minimal training and terrible technique, but you never see them squat something as comparably impressive without significant time under the bar.

And powerlifting is a three lift sport anyway - I'm more impressed with a rounded lifter than a one trick pony (stallion?).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yz37yBT74ck

Hanley · 08-02-2012 9:09am

d'Oracle wrote: »

...and a working link?

Skull · 08-02-2012 10:48am

J-Fit wrote: »

Statistical anomaly. A 250kg pull is a good lift, always will be for guys of a certain size. It only every gives one third of the total picture too so it might be more relevant to focus on actual totals.

If you look at the boy Hickey's lifts, the deadlift is a little out of proportion with the other two. I'd usually expect a max lift back squat to be in excess of 65% of a max lift deadlift. Maybe the other guys are similar, I haven't checked out the results.

Then there is the issue of performance enhancing supplements but this is the IDFPA so maybe not so much a factor. Who knows.

James Hickey only did a token squat and bench in order to qualify for the world champs in France. He was saving himself for the deadlift.

He has squatted 250/260 in competition before and a lot more in the gym for what thats worth.

He doesnt train bench much but has done 170 in competition

J-Fit · 08-02-2012 10:54am

Skull wrote: »

James Hickey only did a token squat and bench in order to qualify for the world champs in France. He was saving himself for the deadlift.

He has squatted 250/260 in competition before and a lot more in the gym for what thats worth.

He doesnt train bench much but has done 170 in competition

Ok, that would explain it. Thanks.

Dathai · 08-02-2012 11:53am

I'd presume a good portion of the lads that are pulling big weights came from a rugby background or played other sports. So they most likely had strong backs, hams and the will to put time into training to pull those numbers.

Skull · 08-02-2012 12:09pm

Dathai wrote: »

I'd presume a good portion of the lads that are pulling big weights came from a rugby background or played other sports. So they most likely had strong backs, hams and the will to put time into training to pull those numbers.

Just thinking of the top two or three deadlifters in the IDFPA and that doesnt really apply although I would have thought so too myself.

Then you have lads like Derek Daly and Gavin Crowzier where it would. Those two are very dynamic deadlifters, very fast off the ground.

A rugby background definitely wouldnt hurt in my opinion put it that way.

Dathai · 08-02-2012 12:14pm

Some people are just ridiculously strong and are only lifting to shame the rest of us.

daveyc21 · 08-02-2012 12:26pm

To be honest I think its to do with the increase in s and c places recently. It moves the goalposts. If you walk into any commercial gym 100kg is a good bench whereas taking ironside as an example you walk in and there are 16/17 year old benching 140 squatting 200 and deadlifting over 240. You might see Wayne doing 140+ cleans at 60kg bodyweight or Sinead going atg on 100+ squats for reps. You think to yourself if everyone in here can do this maybe I can too. Also the guru like programming!!!

Skull · 08-02-2012 12:38pm

daveyc21 wrote: »

To be honest I think its to do with the increase in s and c places recently. It moves the goalposts. If you walk into any commercial gym 100kg is a good bench whereas taking ironside as an example you walk in and there are 16/17 year old benching 140 squatting 200 and deadlifting over 240. You might see Wayne doing 140+ cleans at 60kg bodyweight or Sinead going atg on 100+ squats for reps. You think to yourself if everyone in here can do this maybe I can too. Also the guru like programming!!!

Must go up to your place for a look, never been in a s & c place before and always looking to learn. Our training in Gorey would be fairly old school with a few smolov and sheiko routines thrown in so itd be nice to freshen things up a bit.

d'Oracle · 08-02-2012 12:44pm

More barbells more deadlifts.
Even in the last 2 years I have seen a big increase in places where there are barbells and plates enough to put on the floor and lift heavy and while there may only be a handful of the likes of RAW, Ironside or whatever places are in the northern wastes, there are a fair few places where you can more than make do.

daveyc21 · 08-02-2012 12:45pm

Skull wrote: »

Must go up to your place for a look, never been in a s & c place before and always looking to learn. Our training in Gorey would be fairly old school with a few smolov and sheiko routines thrown in so itd be nice to freshen things up a bit.

Your absolutely welcome. We believe you can learn something from everyone who comes in so our door is always open. drop me a pm when your thinking of popping up and I'll give you some details.

dartstothesea · 08-02-2012 12:48pm

Skull wrote: »

He doesnt train bench much but has done 170 in competition

Was he training it a lot at the time he did 170? I just ask because it's a pretty mind bogglingly big bench if you don't train it that much. what would he be doing that helps him, if he's not directly training bench I mean.

squod · 08-02-2012 12:50pm

I've always said Irish people (or people generally from up this way, Ireland and the UK) should be to strength sports like Kenyans are to running.

Whether it's diet, genetics, God's will or a combination of all three I dunno.
The more people take an interest in strength sports the more information we'll have like.

We're years behind other nations in terms of access to facilities and coaching, yet we're still pulling world class numbers in PL. I hope folks like Hanley and the couple of people I know up here continue in their good work. Raising awareness of the potential that's in a lot of people on this Island.

J-Fit · 08-02-2012 12:59pm

squod wrote: »

I've always said Irish people (or people generally from up this way, Ireland and the UK) should be to strength sports like Kenyans are to running.

Whether it's diet, genetics, God's will or a combination of all three I dunno.
The more people take an interest in strength sports the more information we'll have like.

We're years behind other nations in terms of access to facilities and coaching, yet we're still pulling world class numbers in PL. I hope folks like Hanley and the couple of people I know up here continue in their good work. Raising awareness of the potential that's in a lot of people on this Island.

I agree with you here but I think the Kenyan strength equivalent already exists in eastern Europe. Strength training seems a lot more ingrained in their culture as evidenced by the high proportion of eastern Europeans roaming the gyms nationwide. A proportionately higher number of women too. If only more Irish women deadlifted.....

Skull · 08-02-2012 1:00pm

dartstothesea wrote: »

Was he training it a lot at the time he did 170? I just ask because it's a pretty mind bogglingly big bench if you don't train it that much. what would he be doing that helps him, if he's not directly training bench I mean.

I'd say he could have benched 170 on saturday if he wanted ,he only took the one lift. From what i could gather from his brother he squats twice a week deadlifts once and either benches or does a load of assistance work for arms,shoulders chest etc. He maintains the bench rather than looking to improve it like the other two lifts. I suppose we all favour one lift over the others to some degree.

banshee_bones · 08-02-2012 1:03pm

Hanley wrote: »

Deadlifts tend to be god given whereas squats and benches are earned in my experience.

What I mean by that is that it's not entirely unusual to see someone pull massive weights with minimal training and terrible technique, but you never see them squat something as comparably impressive without significant time under the bar.

Would deffo agree, since I started lifting, my deadlift has always been miles ahead of the other two. You really need to work at squat and bench, or at least I do anyway! :pac:

I would also agree with daveyc that the increase in S&C facilities of late, but I would go so far as to say the exposure to and availability of social networking and youtube etc. (youtube channels like cal strength and sites like mobility wod)
Theres access to so much more information and people can now see the importance of mobility, flexibility and how a good level of conditioning plays an important part of a strength routine.

Hanley · 08-02-2012 1:12pm

squod wrote: »

yet we're still pulling world class numbers in PL.

Outside of a couple of notable exceptions, I really don't think we are.

ray jay · 08-02-2012 1:27pm

When I looked through the results, I was amazed how low the bar was for getting a record. A 152.5kg squat for a 75kg junior is a national record? Even some of the world records look very low compared with efforts like this. It seems like the sport is still small enough that there are plenty of age-weight categories that aren't competitive. Not that I begrudge anyone their hard earned medals!

daveyc21 · 08-02-2012 1:42pm

ray jay wrote: »

When I looked through the results, I was amazed how low the bar was for getting a record. A 152.5kg squat for a 75kg junior is a national record? Even some of the world records look very low compared with efforts like this. It seems like the sport is still small enough that there are plenty of age-weight categories that aren't competitive. Not that I begrudge anyone their hard earned medals!

The records are single lift records so they are not always representative of the best lifts even for that federation.

This is a good 75kg deadlift though!

squod · 08-02-2012 1:43pm

Hanley wrote: »

Outside of a couple of notable exceptions, I really don't think we are.

I don't have data like. All I can can say is that (from what I've seen) a lot of people who have taken a serious interest have done very well.

d'Oracle · 08-02-2012 1:43pm

It is a small sport. In a country of 4 million people.
National records will not necessarily be all that big.
And it may just be the case that 75kg Jnr has not had a lot of lifters in.

I mean one could spend all day comparing between feds.
I'm not sure that Tom Martin has the WR in the IPF anymore either.

ray jay · 08-02-2012 2:55pm

daveyc21 wrote: »

The records are single lift records so they are not always representative of the best lifts even for that federation.

So if you got a record in a single lift competition it will count as its own record even if someone else already lifted more in a full 3 lift event? Pretty silly really.

Hanley · 08-02-2012 3:21pm

squod wrote: »

I don't have data like. All I can can say is that (from what I've seen) a lot of people who have taken a serious interest have done very well.

Have they tho?

Winning medals/breaking records in WDFPF events isn't neceassarily as hard as people may think. Hell even some of the GPC events would be the same.

It's more like the Europa Legue than Champions League tbh. There's lifters/competitors who'd do well in both, but by and large the guys in the WPC and IPF wipe the floor with everyone else.

800ish kg was always a good equipped total at 100kg here in the IDFPA, usually enough to win overall best lifter each year. There's juniors in the IPF doing that at 75kg, and lads at the same weight totalling 1,050 - 1,110kg, if not more.

Scuba Ste · 08-02-2012 3:31pm

ray jay wrote: »

So if you got a record in a single lift competition it will count as its own record even if someone else already lifted more in a full 3 lift event? Pretty silly really.

I'd say it's more to do with reverse. If someone sets a record in a single lift competition, is it really a better lift than one set in a 3 lift competition, particularly if it's the deadlift and you've had 6-8 previous lifts that day. I suppose totals are more important in the latter case anyway.

ray jay · 08-02-2012 3:39pm

Scuba Ste wrote: »

I'd say it's more to do with reverse. If someone sets a record in a single lift competition, is it really a better lift than one set in a 3 lift competition, particularly if it's the deadlift and you've had 6-8 previous lifts that day. I suppose totals are more important in the latter case anyway.

Yeah clearly in that case it's ok, but the way I described it in my previous post, it would be like if someone ran a 9.5s 100m in a decathlon but the stand alone 100m record stayed at 9.58.

A 250kg deadlift is nothing anymore

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