The XCase 20 years on-what's changed for Irish women

lazygal

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/weekend/2012/0204/1224311239069.html

Good piece here for anyone interested. Shocking case and it was amazing to read how little has really changed for Irish women in the 20 years since.

Giselle

lazygal wrote: »

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/weekend/2012/0204/1224311239069.html

Good piece here for anyone interested. Shocking case and it was amazing to read how little has really changed for Irish women in the 20 years since.

Shocking too how sentencing for the original crime was reduced so dramatically and the perpetrator considered a 'good family man' - who just happened to rape a child on the side.

lazygal

And went on to rape a second child in his line of work.

LittleBook

Her anonymity has been respected. As was the perpetrator’s – until March 2002, when he was sentenced to three and a half years for the kidnap and sexual assault of a 15-year-old girl who had hailed his taxi.

Back in 1992, when charged with unlawful carnal knowledge of Miss X, he delayed the trial for more than two years amid legal arguments that he could not have a fair trial. In the trial, he tried to pin the blame for Miss X’s pregnancy on a young local boy until DNA evidence drawn from the miscarried foetus proved decisive. A total sentence of 14 years was subsequently reduced to four by the Court of Criminal Appeal, mainly on the basis that he was unlikely to reoffend and had emerged from psychiatric reports as “a hard-working good family man”.

Much was made in the judgment of the sufferring caused by the loss of his business as a result of the case. The learned judges also emphasised the distinction made by the man’s counsel “between this case, serious though it is, and a case of out-and-out rape”. At no stage in the process was there any discussion of the coercion implicit in a sexual assault on a 12-year-old by a middle-aged man.

He was released in May 1997. Just over two years later he attacked the 15-year-old girl in his taxi.

When I think about what that poor girl and her family had to go through for it all to end up like this ...

28064212

lazygal wrote: »

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/weekend/2012/0204/1224311239069.html

Good piece here for anyone interested. Shocking case and it was amazing to read how little has really changed for Irish women in the 20 years since.

The X case is the most damning indictment of politicians in this country. Forget about the bailouts, FF's ridiculously bad handling of the Celtic Tiger, the e-voting fiasco, the delays in legalising homosexual acts, condoms and the pill, even the likes of Haughey. The hypocrisy and downright arrogance of spitting on both our constitution and the result of two referendums is something that every politician who has sat in the Dáil Eireann chambers has been complicit in

Since the 1992 ruling, successive governments have been absolutely criminal in not legislating for the X Case. From the date of that ruling, it has been 100% constitutional for a woman who is at risk of suicide to procure an abortion, yet any doctor providing such an abortion would be found guilty under the Offences Against the Person Act (1861). It is an absurd situation, and the negligence of the Dáil in addressing this direct contradiction between the law and the constitution is astounding.

Since the ruling, there has been, not one, but two referendums asking the people of Ireland if they want to remove the right to an abortion where the threat of suicide exists. Both have been rejected. And still, this absurd situation continues. For comparison, the most recent amendment, the 29th (allowing for reducing judges' pay) was passed on October 27th 2011. The legislation implementing those changes was passed on the 7th of December, 41 days later.

jaja321

I was reading this the other day and found myself seething with anger. There has been a total lack of leadership in this regard. Hopefully the ruling on the ABC case will finally have an impact. The European Court of Human Rights ruled that Ireland's failure to implement the right to an abortion when a woman's life is at risk violates Article 8 of the Convention. Apparently our new government have said they will establish an expert group to advise how to implement the ABC judgment. Remains to be seen what will be done...

28064212

jaja321 wrote: »

I was reading this the other day and found myself seething with anger. There has been a total lack of leadership in this regard. Hopefully the ruling on the ABC case will finally have an impact. The European Court of Human Rights ruled that Ireland's failure to implement the right to an abortion when a woman's life is at risk violates Article 8 of the Convention. Apparently our new government have said they will establish an expert group to advise how to implement the ABC judgment. Remains to be seen what will be done...

Let's see...

1998: The Government establish an Inter-departmental Working Group on Abortion supervised by a cabinet sub-committee

1999 (September): Green Paper on Abortion published. Seven possible options are outlined.

2000 (May, June, July): Interested parties and organisations, including representatives from the medical profession, special interest groups and faith groups, are invited to address the All-Party Oireachtas Committee.

2000 (November): All-Party Oireachtas Committee publishes its report. After nearly 12 months, the committee fails to reach a consensus outlining three different approaches, reflecting the views of Labour, Fine Gael and Fianna Fáil.

2000 (November): A Cabinet subcommittee on abortion convenes, chaired by the Minister for Health, Mr Martin. This subcommittee is to eventually make a recommendation to the Government.

Source: http://www.irishtimes.com/focus/abortion/issues/chronology.htm

The court [European Court of Human Rights] has already criticised the State for failing to act on recommendations of the three previous government committees that have already considered Ireland’s regulation of abortion,” chief executive of the association Niall Behan said.

Source: http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2011/0915/1224304143020.html

...the Green Paper 1999 noted that...
...The political assessment of that Paper by the Committee on the Constitution led to the Fifth Progress Report which found that...

Despite therefore the recognition by those bodies that further legal clarity was required as regards lawful abortions in Ireland, no agreement was reached on any reform proposals, no legislation and/or constitutional referenda were proposed and the Government confirmed to the Court that no legislative reform was envisaged.

Source - ECHR ruling on the ABC case: http://www.bailii.org/eu/cases/ECHR/2010/2032.html#para265

I wouldn't hold my breath on the Irish goverment's expediency in this matter, "expert" group or not

jaja321

Yeah, which is why I said remains to be seen what will be done. I believe the 'expert' group are to submit a report in 6 months.. I'm sure once they have submitted their recommendations, things will still be dragged out by the government for as long as possible. I'm just hoping (not confident, but hoping!) that there might finally be a shift in this.

iguana

I can't believe that a convicted rapist was allowed to keep his taxi license. A taxi driver is someone who is in a position of trust to women. As much as most women will never normally get into a car with a stranger, we do so every time we hail a taxi. Someone who was convicted of any form of violent crime should never be allowed do such a job again.

lazygal

Ivana Bacik has a piece on it today : http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/opinion/2012/0206/1224311335106.html

which is the actual anniversary of the case.

jaja321

Thanks for sharing lazygal.. ... weren't the Labour party the ones calling on the last Govt to do something about this and to finally legislate? I wonder now that they are in Govt will they actually have the leadership to do so

MsLaura

Pregnancy after the unfortunate event of rape still doesn't justify abortion imo. There's more than enough adaption agencies willing to take your baby after you deliver. yeah it might be awkward having to meet your child when they're 20, but that's not an excuse for murder. Just my perspective. I had an unwanted child whom I put up for adaption last year and I don't feel the situation would have been any different if my baby had of been the result of a rape.

lazygal

MsLaura wrote: »

Pregnancy after the unfortunate event of rape still doesn't justify abortion imo. There's more than enough adaption agencies willing to take your baby after you deliver. yeah it might be awkward having to meet your child when they're 20, but that's not an excuse for murder. Just my perspective. I had an unwanted child whom I put up for adaption last year and I don't feel the situation would have been any different if my baby had of been the result of a rape.

Your experiance isn't that of everyone. The Irish people have voted in favour of providing abortion in Ireland to Irish women, albeit in limited circumstances. The problem is successive Governments have done nothing to allow women to exercise this right. Would you compel a woman pregnant after rape to carry a child to term, no matter what? Would you lock her up to ensure the child is born?

hattoncracker

MsLaura wrote: »

Pregnancy after the unfortunate event of rape still doesn't justify abortion imo. There's more than enough adaption agencies willing to take your baby after you deliver. yeah it might be awkward having to meet your child when they're 20, but that's not an excuse for murder. Just my perspective. I had an unwanted child whom I put up for adaption last year and I don't feel the situation would have been any different if my baby had of been the result of a rape.

That's how you feel, but thats not what all women want. No one has any right to try and tell a woman how to deal with an unwanted pregnancy.

Asking a woman to go through a pregnancy after the trauma of a rape, and then asking her to give the baby up for adoption, two traumatic events alone, never mind simultaneously, is just wrong.

Wibbs

MsLaura let's dial back the emotive language like "murder" please. You have your opinion and that's fine, just remember it's your opinion, it may not be anothers.

MsLaura

lazygal wrote: »

Your experiance isn't that of everyone. The Irish people have voted in favour of providing abortion in Ireland to Irish women, albeit in limited circumstances. The problem is successive Governments have done nothing to allow women to exercise this right. Would you compel a woman pregnant after rape to carry a child to term, no matter what? Would you lock her up to ensure the child is born?

Thankfully we don't have much of a rape problem here in this country thank god, so it's not so much of an issue. But in the rare case of a woman becoming pregnant after a rape, I would say abortion is inexcusable in these circumstances just as it is in any other. when you learn of the many aspiring parents out there who wish to be parents but cannot find children to adapt. Give the woman assistance in carrying the child to term and invest more in the adaption industry here, but do not give abortion legal in some circumstances because too many women could lie just to get an abortion when there is no need.

jaja321

MsLaura wrote: »

Thankfully we don't have much of a rape problem here in this country .

Where are you getting this from?

28064212

MsLaura wrote: »

Pregnancy after the unfortunate event of rape still doesn't justify abortion imo. There's more than enough adaption agencies willing to take your baby after you deliver. yeah it might be awkward having to meet your child when they're 20, but that's not an excuse for murder. Just my perspective. I had an unwanted child whom I put up for adaption last year and I don't feel the situation would have been any different if my baby had of been the result of a rape.

The X Case ruling had nothing to do with unwanted pregnancies. That's a separate issue. The X Case ruling said that "a woman had a right to an abortion under Article 40.3.3 if there was a real and substantial risk to her life". The highest court in the country stated that a woman was constitutionally entitled to an abortion in those circumstances, and 20 years on, the legislation to put that right in place has still not been enacted.

To compare: In 1996, the divorce referendum had just been passed. The constitution had been amended to provide for the granting of divorces. The government drafted and signed into law the Family Law (Divorce) Act of 1996. Imagine that the government hadn't done that. Instead, they just sat on their hands and didn't draft any legislation to allow for divorces. Constitutionally, you would be entitled to apply for a divorce, but there would be absolutely no mechanism to do so until the government drafted the legislation to provide it. Now imagine successive governments refused to draft the legislation.

For SIXTEEN years.

That's how ridiculous this situation is

syklops

MsLaura wrote: »

Pregnancy after the unfortunate event of rape still doesn't justify abortion imo. There's more than enough adaption agencies willing to take your baby after you deliver. yeah it might be awkward having to meet your child when they're 20, but that's not an excuse for murder. Just my perspective. I had an unwanted child whom I put up for adaption last year and I don't feel the situation would have been any different if my baby had of been the result of a rape.

"Unfortunate event of rape"? Backing into a lamppost is an unfortunate event. Rape is barbaric, abhorrent, a truly vile act. Indeed, I do not have the words to describe how evil it is.

That you think it is simply unfortunate explains why you think it doesn't justify abortion.

hattoncracker

MsLaura wrote: »

lazygal wrote: »

Your experiance isn't that of everyone. The Irish people have voted in favour of providing abortion in Ireland to Irish women, albeit in limited circumstances. The problem is successive Governments have done nothing to allow women to exercise this right. Would you compel a woman pregnant after rape to carry a child to term, no matter what? Would you lock her up to ensure the child is born?

Thankfully we don't have much of a rape problem here in this country thank god, so it's not so much of an issue. But in the rare case of a woman becoming pregnant after a rape, I would say abortion is inexcusable in these circumstances just as it is in any other. when you learn of the many aspiring parents out there who wish to be parents but cannot find children to adapt. Give the woman assistance in carrying the child to term and invest more in the adaption industry here, but do not give abortion legal in some circumstances because too many women could lie just to get an abortion when there is no need.

No need?

Who is the government to make that decision for a woman?

MissFlitworth

MsLaura wrote: »

Pregnancy after the unfortunate event of rape still doesn't justify abortion imo

I'm sure it's just an accident of phrasing but Rape isn't an 'unfortunate event'. Calling it that makes it sound like something on a par with losing your wallet or having it rain all day on your wedding. Rape is a life changing, scarring crime against a person and has effects that can last for someones entire life.

I had an unwanted child whom I put up for adaption last year and I don't feel the situation would have been any different if my baby had of been the result of a rape.

While you might feel that way it's clear many other women don't. You feel you would be able to cope with a pregnancy after rape you cannot assume other women would be able to. Rape is an invasion of your body, it's having something you did not want happen to you & be unable to stop it. It involves, if you are strong enough, going to the Gardai & accusing someone of raping you then following thorugh to a trial. Many, many women are unable to cope with a pregnancy and the ensuing bodily changes and life changes at the same time as dealing with the aftermath of having been raped.

Thankfully we don't have much of a rape problem here in this country thank god, so it's not so much of an issue. But in the rare case of a woman becoming pregnant after a rape

This reminds me of something I once saw on an 'pro life' poster outside the GPO. It very nearly got my size 6 doc marten through it. How could pregnancy after rape be any rarer than pregnancy after sexual intercourse unless a woman intervenes medically? And any amount of rape in a country amounts to a large rape problem.

lazygal

MsLaura wrote: »

Thankfully we don't have much of a rape problem here in this country thank god, so it's not so much of an issue. But in the rare case of a woman becoming pregnant after a rape, I would say abortion is inexcusable in these circumstances just as it is in any other. when you learn of the many aspiring parents out there who wish to be parents but cannot find children to adapt. Give the woman assistance in carrying the child to term and invest more in the adaption industry here, but do not give abortion legal in some circumstances because too many women could lie just to get an abortion when there is no need.

How do you know the extent of the rape problem in Ireland? Would you detain a 14 year old suidical girl pregnant as the result of child abuse to ensure she gives birth to a child? The Irish people have voted on this and said abortion in such a case should be allowed.

I'm pregnant, planned for and in a very stable, loving relationship. But its difficult enough being pregnant in my case, if I was 14, had been raped and wanted to kill myself I'd have a hard understanding how giving birth to my rapist's child would be the best outcome for all concerned.

syklops

MsLaura wrote: »

Thankfully we don't have much of a rape problem here in this country thank god,

Interesting you mention God. The Cloynes report and the other reports and revelations relating to the sexual abuse of children in the care of state and religious bodies going back forty years begs to differ as to how much of a rape problem we have in this country.

iguana

MsLaura wrote: »

when you learn of the many aspiring parents out there who wish to be parents but cannot find children to adapt.

I say this as a desperately 'aspiring parent' with a miscarriage history and endometriosis.

Any person who thinks their desire to be a parent justifies a woman being forced to carry an unwanted pregnancy to term against her wishes is too despicably selfish to be entrusted with the care of a budgie, never mind a baby.

hattoncracker

MsLaura wrote: »

lazygal wrote: »

Your experiance isn't that of everyone. The Irish people have voted in favour of providing abortion in Ireland to Irish women, albeit in limited circumstances. The problem is successive Governments have done nothing to allow women to exercise this right. Would you compel a woman pregnant after rape to carry a child to term, no matter what? Would you lock her up to ensure the child is born?

Thankfully we don't have much of a rape problem here in this country thank god, so it's not so much of an issue. But in the rare case of a woman becoming pregnant after a rape, I would say abortion is inexcusable in these circumstances just as it is in any other. when you learn of the many aspiring parents out there who wish to be parents but cannot find children to adapt. Give the woman assistance in carrying the child to term and invest more in the adaption industry here, but do not give abortion legal in some circumstances because too many women could lie just to get an abortion when there is no need.

Rape is a massive problem in this country.. It's underreported, and a lot of that has to do with attitudes towards it.

I wish I lived in your fantasy land where everything is rosy, but reality is quite different. If a woman got pregnant accidentally and had no money, and no way of raising her child on her own except on benefits and did not want to do that on principle and she wasn't emotionally ready then thats her choice.

MsLaura

Ok, one can only assume there's not much of a rape problem in Ireland by default because there does not seem to be one at all you'd have to say. If anyone can show me evidence there is, I may change my feelings on that. What are the statistics?

I think if we allow the killing of human life in any circumstance it will shape the public's opinion on murder. Soon, capital punishment might seem Ok, which is not. killing of human life is murder end of story in my opinion.

28064212

MsLaura wrote: »

Ok, one can only assume there's not much of a rape problem in Ireland by default because there does not seem to be one at all you'd have to say. If anyone can show me evidence there is, I may change my feelings on that. What are the statistics?

Lets say you're right, there aren't many cases of rape pregnancy in this country. So the handful of ones that do occur, they should just be ignored? Shove them under the carpet?

Btw, rape is not the only circumstance where a woman is constitutionally entitled to procure an abortion. If there is a "substantial risk to her life", she is entitled to abort, including if that risk is suicide. Suddenly the number of women constitutionally entitled to an abortion in Ireland is a lot higher, even if you were to accept your flawed position of rape not being a serious problem in this country

jaja321

MsLaura wrote: »

Ok, one can only assume there's not much of a rape problem in Ireland by default because there does not seem to be one at all you'd have to say. If anyone can show me evidence there is, I may change my feelings on that. What are the statistics?

I think if we allow the killing of human life in any circumstance it will shape the public's opinion on murder. Soon, capital punishment might seem Ok, which is not. killing of human life is murder end of story in my opinion.

Why don't you take a look here? http://www.rcni.ie/national-statistics.aspx You are the one spouting that rape isn't a problem here.. where are your statistics to back that up? Rape is a massively under-reported crime.

I can't even comment on your 'link' between abortion and public opinion on murder it's so baffling

hattoncracker

MsLaura wrote: »

Ok, one can only assume there's not much of a rape problem in Ireland by default because there does not seem to be one at all you'd have to say. If anyone can show me evidence there is, I may change my feelings on that. What are the statistics?

I think if we allow the killing of human life in any circumstance it will shape the public's opinion on murder. Soon, capital punishment might seem Ok, which is not. killing of human life is murder end of story in my opinion.

http://www.drcc.ie/

Down the bottom you can download the statistics for how many calls were taken last year alone, 11,618 calls. And that's only Dublin. If you assume that 30% of those were reported to the Garda, which is the general statistic in this country, and that not all people told anyone then that's still a staggering amount of people for our demographic.

IvyTheTerrible

Hold on a second. This guy raped two girls that we know of, and he is out free? (raped a 15 year old in 2002 and got 3.5 years). That to me is one of the most sickening thing about this case.

MsLaura

hattoncracker wrote: »

http://www.drcc.ie/

Down the bottom you can download the statistics for how many calls were taken last year alone, 11,618 calls. And that's only Dublin. If you assume that 30% of those were reported to the Garda, which is the general statistic in this country, and that not all people told anyone then that's still a staggering amount of people for our demographic.

Those statistics are likely highly exaggerated. I don't see where and how all those rapes could possibly occur. But anyway, that's not the point. The point is, if we put circumstance into the equation, many women will lie and many babies will needlessly die. Simple as.

Neyite

MsLaura wrote: »

Ok, one can only assume there's not much of a rape problem in Ireland by default because there does not seem to be one at all you'd have to say. If anyone can show me evidence there is, I may change my feelings on that. What are the statistics?

I think if we allow the killing of human life in any circumstance it will shape the public's opinion on murder. Soon, capital punishment might seem Ok, which is not. killing of human life is murder end of story in my opinion.

The girl in this case was 14. A minor. Therefore her rapist was a pedophile in addition to a rapist. It was the rape of a child. And you dont think there is much of that in Ireland eh? Where have you been for the last 20 years?

MsLaura

hattoncracker wrote: »

Rape is a massive problem in this country.. It's underreported, and a lot of that has to do with attitudes towards it.

I wish I lived in your fantasy land where everything is rosy, but reality is quite different. If a woman got pregnant accidentally and had no money, and no way of raising her child on her own except on benefits and did not want to do that on principle and she wasn't emotionally ready then thats her choice.

Wait a minute, how could you possibly know it's under reported? If it's not being reported then there's no way of telling. How could you possibly know that?

MissFlitworth

MsLaura wrote: »

Those statistics are likely highly exaggerated. I don't see where and how all those rapes could possibly occur. But anyway, that's not the point.

1. What the..?

2. You asked for statistics on rape, reliable statistics given to you from DRCC, that's pretty much exactly what you asked for, right on point no?

jaja321

MsLaura wrote: »

Those statistics are likely highly exaggerated. I don't see where and how all those rapes could possibly occur. But anyway, that's not the point. The point is, if we put circumstance into the equation, many women will lie and many babies will needlessly die. Simple as.

How are they likely highly exaggerated?

Anyway your opinion differs drastically from the majority opinion of those who voted on 2 referendum on this matter, and the ruling of the European Court of Human Rights. This is what really matters.

hattoncracker

MsLaura wrote: »

Those statistics are likely highly exaggerated. I don't see where and how all those rapes could possibly occur. But anyway, that's not the point. The point is, if we put circumstance into the equation, many women will lie and many babies will needlessly die. Simple as.

I don't know why you think the DRCC would or could fake statistics like that. I don't know what country or society you have been living in for the past 20 years, but it's not the same as the rest of us. Either that or you're just trolling.

You and people with opinions like you are exactly the reason why the government should have no say whatsoever in whether women go through with their pregnancy or not.

Abortion should be legal in this country, rape or not. Simple as.

hattoncracker

MsLaura wrote: »

Wait a minute, how could you possibly know it's under reported? If it's not being reported then there's no way of telling. How could you possibly know that?

30% of all rapes that are reported to the Rape Crisis Centre are reported to the Garda. The rest are not. That, by definition, is under-reporting.

28064212

hattoncracker wrote: »

Abortion should be legal in this country, rape or not. Simple as.

This isn't a thread about abortion in general (or at least it wasn't). The pros and cons of abortion on-demand is something that will be debated over and over again. It would take a constitutional referendum to make it legal.

However, this thread is about the X Case. Where there is a substantial risk to the life of the mother, she is already constitutionally entitled to an abortion. The people of Ireland have voted on it, the Supreme Court has ruled on it, and still there is no government action to legislate for it.

hattoncracker

28064212 wrote: »

This isn't a thread about abortion in general (or at least it wasn't). The pros and cons of abortion on-demand is something that will be debated over and over again. It would take a constitutional referendum to make it legal.

However, this thread is about the X Case. Where there is a substantial risk to the life of the mother, she is already constitutionally entitled to an abortion. The people of Ireland have voted on it, the Supreme Court has ruled on it, and still there is no government action to legislate for it.

Apologies. I'm stepping away from the keyboard for a few minutes.

Honey-ec

MsLaura wrote: »

Those statistics are likely highly exaggerated. I don't see where and how all those rapes could possibly occur. But anyway, that's not the point. The point is, if we put circumstance into the equation, many women will lie and many babies will needlessly die. Simple as.

Oh lord. Welcome to Ignoresville.

And it's adoption, btw.

Morag

There are medical conditions such as cancer and pre clampsia which mean that if the pregnancy is allowed to continue that the woman will die. Currently legally in those circumstances due to the X case ruling, legal to end the pregnancy to save the woman's life.

But the cowards we have elected over the 20 years sat on their hands and refused to pass the legislation so that the policies and proceedures could be put in place.

So women who have the legal right currently to end a pregnancy who's lifes are already at risk have the added stress and pressure of having to travel to a different country for a live saving procedure. That is why this is so important.

baby and crumble

MsLaura banned for trolling.

fatmammycat

Women with unwanted pregnancies are not incubators for the childless. I hate how quick people are to throw adoption out there as if that catch-all ought to suit every woman who finds herself with a crisis pregnancy.

IvyTheTerrible

fatmammycat wrote: »

Women with unwanted pregnancies are not incubators for the childless. I hate how quick people are to throw adoption out there as if that catch-all ought to suit every woman who finds herself with a crisis pregnancy.

And as Sharrow mentioned above, medical conditions that endanger the life of the mother eliminate the adoption possibility anyway.

fatmammycat

IvyTheTerrible wrote: »

And as Sharrow mentioned above, medical conditions that endanger the life of the mother eliminate the adoption possibility anyway.

Exactly.

Honey-ec

Unfortunately, no Goverment wants to be the one to legislate for the X case, collectively, they've all been terrified to stick their necks out.

syklops

Honey-ec wrote: »

Unfortunately, no Goverment wants to be the one to legislate for the X case, collectively, they've all been terrified to stick their necks out.

You would have thought every father would want the legislation to protect his daughter. Every mother to protect hers, every woman to protect herself.

Surely thats a big enough percentage of the population. Maybe as the death grip the catholic church has on the country, loosens, things will change.

Honey-ec

syklops wrote: »

Maybe as the death grip the catholic church has on the country, loosens, things will change.

I certainly hope so. Unfortunately, this issue tends to bring out the zealots and while they're in the minority, they're loud enough to make it seem like there's more opposition to this legislation than there actually is and that's why successive governments have been more than happy not to go poking the wasps' nest.

It also doesn't help that a significant proportion of our elected representatives are middle-aged, centre-right, Catholic conservatives.

Morag

http://www.change.org/petitions/the-irish-government-legislate-for-the-x-case-before-the-end-of-2012

Why This Is Important

20 years ago on February 17th 1992 a 14 year old girl, known as X, became the subject of a High Court injunction barring her from leaving the country. She was confined to Ireland to prevent her terminating her pregnancy, the result of a rape following years of sexual abuse at the hands of a neighbour. Two weeks later following a huge outpouring of sympathy and horror from all sections of society and all corners of the nation the Supreme Court ruled that when a pregnant woman’s life is in danger, including from the risk of suicide, she has the right to an abortion here in Ireland. On that date the court directed that we must legislate to allow women exercise this right.

20 years later Irish women are still waiting for legislation to allow them access to abortion where their life is in danger.

Please sign this petition and call on the government to introduce legislation in 2012 for the verdict of the Supreme Court in 1992 to legislate for the X case.

Greermua

fatmammycat wrote: »

Women with unwanted pregnancies are not incubators for the childless. I hate how quick people are to throw adoption out there as if that catch-all ought to suit every woman who finds herself with a crisis pregnancy.

I registered on the board just to congratulate this post. I was quite disappointed to get this response from an intelligent and usually rational friend recently. As if the bodily trauma, physical transformation and emotional repercussions of going through an unwanted pregnancy (not to mention simply creating a human being you might not want to create) outweigh removing the unwanted problem. 'There are loads of people out there who'd kill for a baby' is just not a helpful argument in this case. I still think it's absolutely bizarre that people hold with such archaic sentiment.

tell them to go off and start chewing food for people with no teeth