Tyrone GAA Discussion Thread

JB81

Hi All

Just wondering what people think of the obvious changes that are taking place in the Tyrone set up and how it bodes for the future.
Taking into the account the retirement of double All-Ireland winner Kevin 'Hub' Hughes this week to add to Enda MCGinley, Brian Dooher, Philip Jordan, Ciaran Gourley & Brian McGuigan.

Take these out of the fantastic Triple All-Ireland winning squad and you would be forgiven for thinking its the end of the road. However they have still won and competed well in Minor and U-21 All Ireland in the last few years. so do people think that these youngsters coming in and with the likes of Stephen O'Neill, Owen Mulligan, Sean Kavanagh, Conor Gormley, Ricey McMenamim, McMahon brothers that Tyrone can rise once again?

JB

To Alcohol

Like Gerry once said "They haven't gone away you know". In fairness they seem to have some very good young players. It'll take time to incorporate them into the team and build them up etc. Promotion from Div 2 and to be playing football into August would be a good result for this year. Anything more than this would be a real bonus.

JB81

Yeah, I feel we havent seen the last of them, I think if Mickey Harte didnt think they had anything he may have left at the top. Definitely one to watch out for is a young forward Ronan O'Neill, looks to be a great prospect.

Jayop

So in answer to the original OP, it seems yes, Tyrone have gone away and they won't be competing for an All Ireland or even realistically winning an Ulster while Donegal are so strong for a long time.

There's no general Tyrone GAA thread on here and this is as good as any to use having looked though the ones with Tyrone in the title over the last few years. Tyrone football has so much potential but something has stopped us moving with the times for a few years. We've stuck with the tactics that won us 3 all Irelands but we don't have the same level of player we had then and the other top counties have evolved to the point where our tactics won't see us beat a top 4 side for a long time unless we change.

Dublin, Mayo, Kerry and Donegal are all so much stronger than us. I'd put us in the next group with maybe Cork and Monaghan but even then I doubt we'd beat either of those in the championship at the moment.

I can see Tyrone having a good run in the qualifiers this summer, but the way the draw if set up, if we progress though the rounds we'll have to play the loser from Ulster or Connacht (probably Sligo or Monaghan) and even is we win that we'll have to face Donegal or Mayo. There's no chance really that we'll get to a semi final this year in that case.


This is how I see our side of the qualifiers going.



1B

Armagh v Wicklow
Wexford v Down
Louth v Leitrim
Tyrone v Limerick

You'd fancy the 3 Ulster teams to go though from that with the Louth Leitrim game being a toss up.

I'm trying to figure out who will be the next 4 teams to come into this pot.

The losers of;
Donegal/Derry
Meath/Westmeath

And the 2 already beaten semifinalists;
Tipp
Galway

So by my estimation the draw for the round 2b will be;
Armagh
Down
Louth/Leitrim
Tyrone

Vs

Derry
Westmeath
Tipp
Galway

The teams then play against each other to get down to two teams in 3b

Being added to this side of the draw once it's down to 2 teams for round 4 are;
Loser Connacht (likely Sligo)
Loser Ulster (Likely Monaghan)

Then for the (B) quarter finals the two winners from Ulster and Connacht are added so likely Mayo and Donegal.

Tom Joad

Good idea to have a Tyrone thread and had changed the thread title to reflect this.

Tyrone at the minute remind me of Meath towards the end of the Sean Boylan years. Don't seem to be producing the underage success as much anymore and I think Mickey Harte has stayed on a wee bit too long and things have gone a bit stale.

Jayop

Tom Joad wrote: »

Good idea to have a Tyrone thread and had changed the thread title to reflect this.

Tyrone at the minute remind me of Meath towards the end of the Sean Boylan years. Don't seem to be producing the underage success as much anymore and I think Mickey Harte has stayed on a wee bit too long and things have gone a bit stale.

Your second point about Harte is 100% correct. He's been an absolute legend for Tyrone and brought is success I could only have dreamt about 20 years ago however it seems now that he's more of a hindrance than a help which is harsh but just my view.

As for underage players, we won the U21 this year, we've 2 minors in the last ten years. The talent was there but it wasn't nurtured or brought into the senior panel on time and now a lot of them have gone away from the county set up all together.

We've seen lads retire in droves including the likes of young Kyle Coney who was looking like one of the best players in the country in his underage days.

The whole thing needs a shake up. There's been the same management team there now for 12 years and that's not fair on all the other talented managers in the country. It needs to be freshened up and I think if that happens it could reflect better on general public perception of Tyrone which is at an all time low.

Tom Joad

If and when Mickey Harte moves on, would the next manager come from one of Harte's ex-players such as Canavan (which could be a bad move) or is there anyone from outside that group that would get a crack at it?

Jayop

Tom Joad wrote: »

If and when Mickey Harte moves on, would the next manager come from one of Harte's ex-players such as Canavan (which could be a bad move) or is there anyone from outside that group that would get a crack at it?

I'll be honest, I'm living in Sligo now for 15 years so I'm totally out of touch with the club scene and who's doing a good job there.

Since I cant see there being much graw for an outside manager I'd say the management team that delivered the U21 All Ireland would be in the driving seat. That formula of bringing a successful underage manager straight into the senior panel worked well in the past with Mickey so it could work.

Fergal Logan with Canavan, Dooher and McMenamin involved would be odds on to be the next lads at the helm.

frostyjacks

Apart from Donegal, who seem to have the Indian sign over us, I'd fancy our chances against any of the other sides out there. The qualifiers look a bit if a minefield again this year, and I have a feeling we'll get drawn against Armagh again. I'd back us to beat them but at the same time I'd rather avoid them. I drew a lot of confidence from the Donegal game, build in that and we could go a long way.

For the coaching ticket, any of Logan/Canavan/Dooher/McMenamin would be welcome. They all bring something different to the table. I'm sure folk up and down the country would love to see McMenamin prowling the sidelines.

Regarding the Meath comparison, I think the big difference is that we've laid down foundations on the back of our success, whereas Meath thought it would last forever and didn't really invest in the future.

Jayop

frostyjacks wrote: »

Apart from Donegal, who seem to have the Indian sign over us, I'd fancy our chances against any of the other sides out there. The qualifiers look a bit if a minefield again this year, and I have a feeling we'll get drawn against Armagh again. I'd back us to beat them but at the same time I'd rather avoid them. I drew a lot of confidence from the Donegal game, build in that and we could go a long way.

For the coaching ticket, any of Logan/Canavan/Dooher/McMenamin would be welcome. They all bring something different to the table. I'm sure folk up and down the country would love to see McMenamin prowling the sidelines.

Regarding the Meath comparison, I think the big difference is that we've laid down foundations on the back of our success, whereas Meath thought it would last forever and didn't really invest in the future.

At least there one more Tyrone head here!

I reckon we'd beat Armagh handy enough tbh. The only counties I'd be worried about are Dublin, Mayo, Donegal, cork, Kerry and probably Monaghan. Not saying we'd beat everyone else, but we normally to out when we meet one of those sides.

Do you think mickey and co should go?

frostyjacks

Jayop wrote: »

At least there one more Tyrone head here!

I reckon we'd beat Armagh handy enough tbh. The only counties I'd be worried about are Dublin, Mayo, Donegal, cork, Kerry and probably Monaghan. Not saying we'd beat everyone else, but we normally to out when we meet one of those sides.

Do you think mickey and co should go?

I think he's earned the right to go at a time of his own choosing. We were 70 mins away from an All Ireland final the year before last with a lot of the same players as now, they should have that bit more experience under their belt since then.

Public perception of us is low, yes, but we were never flavour of the month like other counties. Even after Mickey goes we'll still be getting tarred with the same brush. Doesn't bother me though, it's better than having a reputation as a soft touch.

Jayop

frostyjacks wrote: »

I think he's earned the right to go at a time of his own choosing. We were 70 mins away from an All Ireland final the year before last with a lot of the same players as now, they should have that bit more experience under their belt since then.

Public perception of us is low, yes, but we were never flavour of the month like other counties. Even after Mickey goes we'll still be getting tarred with the same brush. Doesn't bother me though, it's better than having a reputation as a soft touch.

Aye I don't think he'll be pushed out anyway!

Re the reputation, I think it's gone so low that it's now counter productive. Certain refs just seem to nail us game after game especially southern refs if we're playing teams from outside the 6 counties. It's never the big decisions, but rather death by a thousand 50/50's.

If we're going to have a reputation for being the dirtiest most physical team in the country then be that and not what we currently are. Plenty of talk but still get bullied by the bigger teams.

frostyjacks

Jayop wrote: »

Aye I don't think he'll be pushed out anyway!

Re the reputation, I think it's gone so low that it's now counter productive. Certain refs just seem to nail us game after game especially southern refs if we're playing teams from outside the 6 counties. It's never the big decisions, but rather death by a thousand 50/50's.

If we're going to have a reputation for being the dirtiest most physical team in the country then be that and not what we currently are. Plenty of talk but still get bullied by the bigger teams.

Yeah, with Hughes and Gormley retiring we lack that enforcer-type player that would break up the opposition's momentum anytime they got a run at us.

Tomas O'Se had a good anecdote in his article last summer about Hughes from the 08 final, how he laid down a marker after we got the goal.

http://m.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-football/tomas-o-se-we-never-beat-tyrone-when-it-really-mattered-30278802.html

We need a bit of that attitude back in squad.

Jayop

frostyjacks wrote: »

Yeah, with Hughes and Gormley retiring we lack that enforcer-type player that would break up the opposition's momentum anytime they got a run at us.

Tomas O'Se had a good anecdote in his article last summer about Hughes from the 08 final, how he laid down a marker after we got the goal.

http://m.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-football/tomas-o-se-we-never-beat-tyrone-when-it-really-mattered-30278802.html

We need a bit of that attitude back in squad.

I love reading O'Se's writing! Probably the best articles in the business from a former player. Manages to tell a wee story about how good they were every time without coming across like a cock ever.

Redsoxfan

What's the story with Coney? Mickey really doesn't have the scoring forwards to let him go.

Jayop

Redsoxfan wrote: »

What's the story with Coney? Mickey really doesn't have the scoring forwards to let him go.

It's madness to be fair. Kyle never really was able to turn it on for the seniors for many reasons, form, not settling in, not being picked and not being available through injury, but the lad was one of the classiest underage players I've ever seen.

The lad is 25 now and should be hitting his prime but he's sitting at home with his fella in his hand when Tyrone are playing. It's hard to fathom.

JB81

Not sure where i would place Tyrone in the whole scheme of things at the moment. There is definitely talent there in the panel and coming through. But is Harte the right man to take them forward? I don't know. I have the deepest respect for Mickey Harte for all he has done and he has deserved the time in charge even since 2008.
It is only as recent as 2013 where we reached a league final to be beat by Dublin by 1 point, and to be fair we played really well that day and lost Stephen O'Neill to injury in warm up. And in the same year reached an all ireland semi final, allbeit failing against Mayo with a poor enough performance.
So I think he deserved another year last year after that at least. But i do think if we dont ( and i think a quarter final would be a good achievement ) perform well this year then it may be time for a change, either a new back room team with new ideas or even a new system/idea/tactics from Harte. Either way I wouldnt mind.
But I do think there is talent and it just needs the right guidance.

Jayop

JB81 wrote: »

Not sure where i would place Tyrone in the whole scheme of things at the moment. There is definitely talent there in the panel and coming through. But is Harte the right man to take them forward? I don't know. I have the deepest respect for Mickey Harte for all he has done and he has deserved the time in charge even since 2008.
It is only as recent as 2013 where we reached a league final to be beat by Dublin by 1 point, and to be fair we played really well that day and lost Stephen O'Neill to injury in warm up. And in the same year reached an all ireland semi final, allbeit failing against Mayo with a poor enough performance.
So I think he deserved another year last year after that at least. But i do think if we dont ( and i think a quarter final would be a good achievement ) perform well this year then it may be time for a change, either a new back room team with new ideas or even a new system/idea/tactics from Harte. Either way I wouldnt mind.
But I do think there is talent and it just needs the right guidance.

The problem with using getting to the odd semi final as justification is that we've avoided the four or five teams who always beat us now on the way. Donegal dump us out of Ulster every year and then one of Mayo, Dublin or Kerry will put us out of the all Ireland. I see it playing out exactly the same this year as we should beat every potential opponent in our side of the draw until we have to meet Mayo, Donegal or Monaghan in the last round of the quarters.

frostyjacks

It's a bit annoying how they've structured the qualifiers, I would rather a team played loser of Ulster/Connacht followed by winner of Leinster/Munster or vice versa, try and mix it up a little. Worst case scenario would be us having to play Monaghan followed by Donegal (provided we get that far). I'm sick of them. Still, would be a chance to settle a few scores.

Not sure how much we're going to learn about the team from this weekend, I doubt many Limerick fans will be prepared to make the journey up to watch what should be a straightforward win. Worth backing McCurry for the first goal, there should be a hatful here. I haven't seen Limerick play in years, but I hear they're not as good as they used to be. But the Antrim win over Laois should serve as a warning against any complacency.

Jayop

frostyjacks wrote: »

It's a bit annoying how they've structured the qualifiers, I would rather a team played loser of Ulster/Connacht followed by winner of Leinster/Munster or vice versa, try and mix it up a little. Worst case scenario would be us having to play Monaghan followed by Donegal (provided we get that far). I'm sick of them. Still, would be a chance to settle a few scores.

Not sure how much we're going to learn about the team from this weekend, I doubt many Limerick fans will be prepared to make the journey up to watch what should be a straightforward win. Worth backing McCurry for the first goal, there should be a hatful here. I haven't seen Limerick play in years, but I hear they're not as good as they used to be. But the Antrim win over Laois should serve as a warning against any complacency.

I think they beat Sligo in the league and Sligo had a good win over the rossies but that means little.

frostyjacks

No major changes in the team for Sunday. Sean named at full forward but that means nothing. What's the story with big Joe? Is he recovering from injury or something?

Jayop

No clue about Joe, on the panel so can't be too bad. Maybe just giving him a rest and taking him out of the spotlight for a game.

Jayop

Just noticed that Morgan doesn't go back in goals. Surprised at that tbh but not disappointed.

frostyjacks

Jayop wrote: »

Just noticed that Morgan doesn't go back in goals. Surprised at that tbh but not disappointed.

Dunno what the stats are on his place kicking, but he hasn't been great any time I've watched him. O'Neill looks decent. I heard he clobbered one of our backs in the Kerry game during the league after we conceded a goal. Good to see players keeping each other on their toes.

Jayop

frostyjacks wrote: »

Dunno what the stats are on his place kicking, but he hasn't been great any time I've watched him. O'Neill looks decent. I heard he clobbered one of our backs in the Kerry game during the league after we conceded a goal. Good to see players keeping each other on their toes.

Aye you could see in the Donegal team too when they scored after he saved the first effort he ran out and clobbered another Tyrone player too because he was so annoyed at how easily they got though. Shades of the great dane in that.

frostyjacks

2pts up at half time, Limerick are better than I imagined. Hopefully we'll pull away in the second half. Be good to get an early goal after the break and kill them off.

Jayop

Fingers crossed we'll avoid Derry tomorrow in the draw. Don't know why they couldn't do it tonight on the Sunday Game.

tanko

Martin McHugh said that five players left the Tyrone panel recently. Are they lads that went travelling for the summer?

frostyjacks

I think they were mainly squad players, didn't fancy training all summer for little prospect of game time.

Would prefer not to face an Ulster side tomorrow, but no fear of any potential opposition. Home advantage would be preferable though.

JB81

Poor enough game yesterday by the sound of things, but always seemed to have enough in the tank. Some good performances from what has been reported from Harte, Brennan and impact from Bradley. Good to see some of the U21's making some headways.

Next up Meath in Omagh - Tough draw. but a good test to see where we actually are?

Jayop

Yeah is imagine that'll be televised on Sky too.

frostyjacks

Fairly happy with that draw. Meath aren't like the Meath team of old. Plus home advantage again, can't complain.

McHugh made a good point about our attack last night, how we lack a target man. McCurry, McAliskey and O'Neill are good, but they're all sort of similar; nippy little forwards. This is where I thought Coney would slot in.

Jayop

It depends what Meath team we get. They looked fairly rampant in the first 40 minutes yesterday but absolutely terrible in the last 30. I'd be reasonably confident we could beat them, but then I'd have been reasonably confident we could have beaten any team in the qualifiers at the moment.

We do need to pick up the performance levels a few notches though if we're going to progress past round 4 or the quarters.

Mr.Goodman

I was at the game and it is safe to say I was not impressed with what i saw.The game lack any excitement.But I would expect Tyrone to beat Meath.

Jayop

Mr.Goodman wrote: »

I was at the game and it is safe to say I was not impressed with what i saw.The game lack any excitement.But I would expect Tyrone to beat Meath.

Looked a pretty small crowd on TV last night. I'll try to get up for the Meath game but it's an awful trek from south Sligo up to Omagh for a game.

Mr.Goodman

I come from Co.Meath myself so it is hard to go see any games up in tyrone it was actually me first time I have ever went to Omagh for a match.The seating section was near full but there was a lot of space in the stands.

Jayop

Mr.Goodman wrote: »

I come from Co.Meath myself so it is hard to go see any games up in tyrone it was actually me first time I have ever went to Omagh for a match.The seating section was near full but there was a lot of space in the stands.

Where you from originally?

Mr.Goodman

Well actually I am from America but my dad is from Tyrone so I always supported them.

Jayop

We'll take all the support we can get Mr Goodman.

Nidgeweasel

Meath are hopeless. Handy win for Tyrone.

Jayop

Nidgeweasel wrote: »

Meath are hopeless. Handy win for Tyrone.

I think you under estimate Tyrone's ability to balls things up.

Mr.Goodman

Jayop wrote: »

We'll take all the support we can get Mr Goodman.

I am glad to have supported tyrone through the years.There is always good craic with the lads in my town and it will be all the better with the game coming up.

iDave

Jayop wrote: »

I think you under estimate Tyrone's ability to balls things up.

Based on yesterday you underestimate our ability to balls things up

Jayop

iDave wrote: »

Based on yesterday you underestimate our ability to balls things up

haha very true.

frostyjacks

I think their keeper might be suspended after picking up that red card. It might work out to their advantage, because he was hopeless.

Jayop

He's flipping dangerous. For all the blowing on RTE about the abuse he got on twitter, they barely mentioned the challenge which could have caused an awful serious injury. You can bet your bottom dollar if that was Cavanagh they'd have spend half an hour talking about how bad a person he is and how he should be banned for life.

Did they not see the abuse Sean got after the famous Brolly rant? Some of the stuff was awful but not a mention on RTE because they were too busy bull****ting about him doing something every other player in the country woudl have done.

Saint Sonner

Petey Harte playing midfield was a major surprise yesterday for me.

Although Tyrone only kicked one kick out long and there was literally no Tyrone players around to attempt to catch it!

Jayop

Saint Sonner wrote: »

Petey Harte playing midfield was a major surprise yesterday for me.

Although Tyrone only kicked one kick out long and there was literally no Tyrone players around to attempt to catch it!

Having seen what Sligo did to nullify the Rossies a few weeks back in midfield you could see a lot more of that. You're essentially giving up on winning any high fielded balls in the middle third by putting two small mobile players in there but you can compensate for that by using their mobility to cover ground all over.

Could we possibly throw Sean up front at some stage against a blanket defence and put someone else in the middle along with Colm?

frostyjacks

Meath game confirmed for 3pm this Saturday in Omagh. Good that we didn't give up home advantage, thought it might have been switched to Clones at one stage.

Jayop

Horrible draw for Tyrone both from a playing PoV and from an image one. If we beat them I've no doubt we'll get Donegal again at some point if we go that far and all the media attention will be on the big bad boys from Tyrone.

frostyjacks

Tough draw, but a chance to put the Tipp boys back in their place after all the whinging they were doing after the U21 final. Should be a nice edge to the game, which suits us.