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Tyrone GAA Discussion Thread

  • 02-02-2012 12:51pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 581 ✭✭✭ JB81


    Hi All

    Just wondering what people think of the obvious changes that are taking place in the Tyrone set up and how it bodes for the future.
    Taking into the account the retirement of double All-Ireland winner Kevin 'Hub' Hughes this week to add to Enda MCGinley, Brian Dooher, Philip Jordan, Ciaran Gourley & Brian McGuigan.

    Take these out of the fantastic Triple All-Ireland winning squad and you would be forgiven for thinking its the end of the road. However they have still won and competed well in Minor and U-21 All Ireland in the last few years. so do people think that these youngsters coming in and with the likes of Stephen O'Neill, Owen Mulligan, Sean Kavanagh, Conor Gormley, Ricey McMenamim, McMahon brothers that Tyrone can rise once again?

    JB


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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 525 ✭✭✭ To Alcohol


    Like Gerry once said "They haven't gone away you know". In fairness they seem to have some very good young players. It'll take time to incorporate them into the team and build them up etc. Promotion from Div 2 and to be playing football into August would be a good result for this year. Anything more than this would be a real bonus.


  • Registered Users Posts: 581 ✭✭✭ JB81


    Yeah, I feel we havent seen the last of them, I think if Mickey Harte didnt think they had anything he may have left at the top. Definitely one to watch out for is a young forward Ronan O'Neill, looks to be a great prospect.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 17,388 Jayop


    So in answer to the original OP, it seems yes, Tyrone have gone away and they won't be competing for an All Ireland or even realistically winning an Ulster while Donegal are so strong for a long time.

    There's no general Tyrone GAA thread on here and this is as good as any to use having looked though the ones with Tyrone in the title over the last few years. Tyrone football has so much potential but something has stopped us moving with the times for a few years. We've stuck with the tactics that won us 3 all Irelands but we don't have the same level of player we had then and the other top counties have evolved to the point where our tactics won't see us beat a top 4 side for a long time unless we change.

    Dublin, Mayo, Kerry and Donegal are all so much stronger than us. I'd put us in the next group with maybe Cork and Monaghan but even then I doubt we'd beat either of those in the championship at the moment.

    I can see Tyrone having a good run in the qualifiers this summer, but the way the draw if set up, if we progress though the rounds we'll have to play the loser from Ulster or Connacht (probably Sligo or Monaghan) and even is we win that we'll have to face Donegal or Mayo. There's no chance really that we'll get to a semi final this year in that case.


    This is how I see our side of the qualifiers going.



    1B

    Armagh v Wicklow
    Wexford v Down
    Louth v Leitrim
    Tyrone v Limerick

    You'd fancy the 3 Ulster teams to go though from that with the Louth Leitrim game being a toss up.

    I'm trying to figure out who will be the next 4 teams to come into this pot.

    The losers of;
    Donegal/Derry
    Meath/Westmeath

    And the 2 already beaten semifinalists;
    Tipp
    Galway

    So by my estimation the draw for the round 2b will be;
    Armagh
    Down
    Louth/Leitrim
    Tyrone

    Vs

    Derry
    Westmeath
    Tipp
    Galway

    The teams then play against each other to get down to two teams in 3b

    Being added to this side of the draw once it's down to 2 teams for round 4 are;
    Loser Connacht (likely Sligo)
    Loser Ulster (Likely Monaghan)

    Then for the (B) quarter finals the two winners from Ulster and Connacht are added so likely Mayo and Donegal.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,134 Tom Joad


    Good idea to have a Tyrone thread and had changed the thread title to reflect this.

    Tyrone at the minute remind me of Meath towards the end of the Sean Boylan years. Don't seem to be producing the underage success as much anymore and I think Mickey Harte has stayed on a wee bit too long and things have gone a bit stale.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 17,388 Jayop


    Tom Joad wrote: »
    Good idea to have a Tyrone thread and had changed the thread title to reflect this.

    Tyrone at the minute remind me of Meath towards the end of the Sean Boylan years. Don't seem to be producing the underage success as much anymore and I think Mickey Harte has stayed on a wee bit too long and things have gone a bit stale.

    Your second point about Harte is 100% correct. He's been an absolute legend for Tyrone and brought is success I could only have dreamt about 20 years ago however it seems now that he's more of a hindrance than a help which is harsh but just my view.

    As for underage players, we won the U21 this year, we've 2 minors in the last ten years. The talent was there but it wasn't nurtured or brought into the senior panel on time and now a lot of them have gone away from the county set up all together.

    We've seen lads retire in droves including the likes of young Kyle Coney who was looking like one of the best players in the country in his underage days.

    The whole thing needs a shake up. There's been the same management team there now for 12 years and that's not fair on all the other talented managers in the country. It needs to be freshened up and I think if that happens it could reflect better on general public perception of Tyrone which is at an all time low.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,134 Tom Joad


    If and when Mickey Harte moves on, would the next manager come from one of Harte's ex-players such as Canavan (which could be a bad move) or is there anyone from outside that group that would get a crack at it?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 17,388 Jayop


    Tom Joad wrote: »
    If and when Mickey Harte moves on, would the next manager come from one of Harte's ex-players such as Canavan (which could be a bad move) or is there anyone from outside that group that would get a crack at it?

    I'll be honest, I'm living in Sligo now for 15 years so I'm totally out of touch with the club scene and who's doing a good job there.

    Since I cant see there being much graw for an outside manager I'd say the management team that delivered the U21 All Ireland would be in the driving seat. That formula of bringing a successful underage manager straight into the senior panel worked well in the past with Mickey so it could work.

    Fergal Logan with Canavan, Dooher and McMenamin involved would be odds on to be the next lads at the helm.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,951 ✭✭✭ frostyjacks


    Apart from Donegal, who seem to have the Indian sign over us, I'd fancy our chances against any of the other sides out there. The qualifiers look a bit if a minefield again this year, and I have a feeling we'll get drawn against Armagh again. I'd back us to beat them but at the same time I'd rather avoid them. I drew a lot of confidence from the Donegal game, build in that and we could go a long way.

    For the coaching ticket, any of Logan/Canavan/Dooher/McMenamin would be welcome. They all bring something different to the table. I'm sure folk up and down the country would love to see McMenamin prowling the sidelines.

    Regarding the Meath comparison, I think the big difference is that we've laid down foundations on the back of our success, whereas Meath thought it would last forever and didn't really invest in the future.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 17,388 Jayop


    Apart from Donegal, who seem to have the Indian sign over us, I'd fancy our chances against any of the other sides out there. The qualifiers look a bit if a minefield again this year, and I have a feeling we'll get drawn against Armagh again. I'd back us to beat them but at the same time I'd rather avoid them. I drew a lot of confidence from the Donegal game, build in that and we could go a long way.

    For the coaching ticket, any of Logan/Canavan/Dooher/McMenamin would be welcome. They all bring something different to the table. I'm sure folk up and down the country would love to see McMenamin prowling the sidelines.

    Regarding the Meath comparison, I think the big difference is that we've laid down foundations on the back of our success, whereas Meath thought it would last forever and didn't really invest in the future.

    At least there one more Tyrone head here!

    I reckon we'd beat Armagh handy enough tbh. The only counties I'd be worried about are Dublin, Mayo, Donegal, cork, Kerry and probably Monaghan. Not saying we'd beat everyone else, but we normally to out when we meet one of those sides.

    Do you think mickey and co should go?


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,951 ✭✭✭ frostyjacks


    Jayop wrote: »
    At least there one more Tyrone head here!

    I reckon we'd beat Armagh handy enough tbh. The only counties I'd be worried about are Dublin, Mayo, Donegal, cork, Kerry and probably Monaghan. Not saying we'd beat everyone else, but we normally to out when we meet one of those sides.

    Do you think mickey and co should go?

    I think he's earned the right to go at a time of his own choosing. We were 70 mins away from an All Ireland final the year before last with a lot of the same players as now, they should have that bit more experience under their belt since then.

    Public perception of us is low, yes, but we were never flavour of the month like other counties. Even after Mickey goes we'll still be getting tarred with the same brush. Doesn't bother me though, it's better than having a reputation as a soft touch.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 17,388 Jayop


    I think he's earned the right to go at a time of his own choosing. We were 70 mins away from an All Ireland final the year before last with a lot of the same players as now, they should have that bit more experience under their belt since then.

    Public perception of us is low, yes, but we were never flavour of the month like other counties. Even after Mickey goes we'll still be getting tarred with the same brush. Doesn't bother me though, it's better than having a reputation as a soft touch.

    Aye I don't think he'll be pushed out anyway!

    Re the reputation, I think it's gone so low that it's now counter productive. Certain refs just seem to nail us game after game especially southern refs if we're playing teams from outside the 6 counties. It's never the big decisions, but rather death by a thousand 50/50's.

    If we're going to have a reputation for being the dirtiest most physical team in the country then be that and not what we currently are. Plenty of talk but still get bullied by the bigger teams.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,951 ✭✭✭ frostyjacks


    Jayop wrote: »
    Aye I don't think he'll be pushed out anyway!

    Re the reputation, I think it's gone so low that it's now counter productive. Certain refs just seem to nail us game after game especially southern refs if we're playing teams from outside the 6 counties. It's never the big decisions, but rather death by a thousand 50/50's.

    If we're going to have a reputation for being the dirtiest most physical team in the country then be that and not what we currently are. Plenty of talk but still get bullied by the bigger teams.

    Yeah, with Hughes and Gormley retiring we lack that enforcer-type player that would break up the opposition's momentum anytime they got a run at us.

    Tomas O'Se had a good anecdote in his article last summer about Hughes from the 08 final, how he laid down a marker after we got the goal.

    http://m.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-football/tomas-o-se-we-never-beat-tyrone-when-it-really-mattered-30278802.html

    We need a bit of that attitude back in squad.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 17,388 Jayop


    Yeah, with Hughes and Gormley retiring we lack that enforcer-type player that would break up the opposition's momentum anytime they got a run at us.

    Tomas O'Se had a good anecdote in his article last summer about Hughes from the 08 final, how he laid down a marker after we got the goal.

    http://m.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-football/tomas-o-se-we-never-beat-tyrone-when-it-really-mattered-30278802.html

    We need a bit of that attitude back in squad.

    I love reading O'Se's writing! Probably the best articles in the business from a former player. Manages to tell a wee story about how good they were every time without coming across like a cock ever.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,976 ✭✭✭ Redsoxfan


    What's the story with Coney? Mickey really doesn't have the scoring forwards to let him go.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 17,388 Jayop


    Redsoxfan wrote: »
    What's the story with Coney? Mickey really doesn't have the scoring forwards to let him go.

    It's madness to be fair. Kyle never really was able to turn it on for the seniors for many reasons, form, not settling in, not being picked and not being available through injury, but the lad was one of the classiest underage players I've ever seen.

    The lad is 25 now and should be hitting his prime but he's sitting at home with his fella in his hand when Tyrone are playing. It's hard to fathom.


  • Registered Users Posts: 581 ✭✭✭ JB81


    Not sure where i would place Tyrone in the whole scheme of things at the moment. There is definitely talent there in the panel and coming through. But is Harte the right man to take them forward? I don't know. I have the deepest respect for Mickey Harte for all he has done and he has deserved the time in charge even since 2008.
    It is only as recent as 2013 where we reached a league final to be beat by Dublin by 1 point, and to be fair we played really well that day and lost Stephen O'Neill to injury in warm up. And in the same year reached an all ireland semi final, allbeit failing against Mayo with a poor enough performance.
    So I think he deserved another year last year after that at least. But i do think if we dont ( and i think a quarter final would be a good achievement ) perform well this year then it may be time for a change, either a new back room team with new ideas or even a new system/idea/tactics from Harte. Either way I wouldnt mind.
    But I do think there is talent and it just needs the right guidance.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 17,388 Jayop


    JB81 wrote: »
    Not sure where i would place Tyrone in the whole scheme of things at the moment. There is definitely talent there in the panel and coming through. But is Harte the right man to take them forward? I don't know. I have the deepest respect for Mickey Harte for all he has done and he has deserved the time in charge even since 2008.
    It is only as recent as 2013 where we reached a league final to be beat by Dublin by 1 point, and to be fair we played really well that day and lost Stephen O'Neill to injury in warm up. And in the same year reached an all ireland semi final, allbeit failing against Mayo with a poor enough performance.
    So I think he deserved another year last year after that at least. But i do think if we dont ( and i think a quarter final would be a good achievement ) perform well this year then it may be time for a change, either a new back room team with new ideas or even a new system/idea/tactics from Harte. Either way I wouldnt mind.
    But I do think there is talent and it just needs the right guidance.

    The problem with using getting to the odd semi final as justification is that we've avoided the four or five teams who always beat us now on the way. Donegal dump us out of Ulster every year and then one of Mayo, Dublin or Kerry will put us out of the all Ireland. I see it playing out exactly the same this year as we should beat every potential opponent in our side of the draw until we have to meet Mayo, Donegal or Monaghan in the last round of the quarters.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,951 ✭✭✭ frostyjacks


    It's a bit annoying how they've structured the qualifiers, I would rather a team played loser of Ulster/Connacht followed by winner of Leinster/Munster or vice versa, try and mix it up a little. Worst case scenario would be us having to play Monaghan followed by Donegal (provided we get that far). I'm sick of them. Still, would be a chance to settle a few scores.

    Not sure how much we're going to learn about the team from this weekend, I doubt many Limerick fans will be prepared to make the journey up to watch what should be a straightforward win. Worth backing McCurry for the first goal, there should be a hatful here. I haven't seen Limerick play in years, but I hear they're not as good as they used to be. But the Antrim win over Laois should serve as a warning against any complacency.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 17,388 Jayop


    It's a bit annoying how they've structured the qualifiers, I would rather a team played loser of Ulster/Connacht followed by winner of Leinster/Munster or vice versa, try and mix it up a little. Worst case scenario would be us having to play Monaghan followed by Donegal (provided we get that far). I'm sick of them. Still, would be a chance to settle a few scores.

    Not sure how much we're going to learn about the team from this weekend, I doubt many Limerick fans will be prepared to make the journey up to watch what should be a straightforward win. Worth backing McCurry for the first goal, there should be a hatful here. I haven't seen Limerick play in years, but I hear they're not as good as they used to be. But the Antrim win over Laois should serve as a warning against any complacency.

    I think they beat Sligo in the league and Sligo had a good win over the rossies but that means little.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,951 ✭✭✭ frostyjacks


    No major changes in the team for Sunday. Sean named at full forward but that means nothing. What's the story with big Joe? Is he recovering from injury or something?


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 17,388 Jayop


    CIX01YmUYAABSwE.jpg

    No clue about Joe, on the panel so can't be too bad. Maybe just giving him a rest and taking him out of the spotlight for a game.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 17,388 Jayop


    Just noticed that Morgan doesn't go back in goals. Surprised at that tbh but not disappointed.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,951 ✭✭✭ frostyjacks


    Jayop wrote: »
    Just noticed that Morgan doesn't go back in goals. Surprised at that tbh but not disappointed.

    Dunno what the stats are on his place kicking, but he hasn't been great any time I've watched him. O'Neill looks decent. I heard he clobbered one of our backs in the Kerry game during the league after we conceded a goal. Good to see players keeping each other on their toes.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 17,388 Jayop


    Dunno what the stats are on his place kicking, but he hasn't been great any time I've watched him. O'Neill looks decent. I heard he clobbered one of our backs in the Kerry game during the league after we conceded a goal. Good to see players keeping each other on their toes.

    Aye you could see in the Donegal team too when they scored after he saved the first effort he ran out and clobbered another Tyrone player too because he was so annoyed at how easily they got though. Shades of the great dane in that.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,951 ✭✭✭ frostyjacks


    2pts up at half time, Limerick are better than I imagined. Hopefully we'll pull away in the second half. Be good to get an early goal after the break and kill them off.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 17,388 Jayop


    Fingers crossed we'll avoid Derry tomorrow in the draw. Don't know why they couldn't do it tonight on the Sunday Game.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,229 ✭✭✭ tanko


    Martin McHugh said that five players left the Tyrone panel recently. Are they lads that went travelling for the summer?


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,951 ✭✭✭ frostyjacks


    I think they were mainly squad players, didn't fancy training all summer for little prospect of game time.

    Would prefer not to face an Ulster side tomorrow, but no fear of any potential opposition. Home advantage would be preferable though.


  • Registered Users Posts: 581 ✭✭✭ JB81


    Poor enough game yesterday by the sound of things, but always seemed to have enough in the tank. Some good performances from what has been reported from Harte, Brennan and impact from Bradley. Good to see some of the U21's making some headways.

    Next up Meath in Omagh - Tough draw. but a good test to see where we actually are?


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 17,388 Jayop


    Yeah is imagine that'll be televised on Sky too.


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