Cyclist awarded €15,000 after thumb almost broken by road-rage bus driver

n97 mini

I've only come across one or two pr1cks of bus drivers in the 22 or so years I've been using buses, so this one is hard to believe.

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/courts/cyclist-awarded-15000-after-thumb-almost-broken-by-roadrage-bus-driver-3003900.html

Driver couldn't be served notice as he was already in prison! I wonder what for?

corktina

you can't do someone for ALMOST doing something can you?

galwaycyclist

There is also a thread going on this over in Cycling

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056534445

Suffice it to say this gentleman's behavour in using a footpath to overtake a stopped bus is not winning him any favours in that forum.

Mr Simpson

corktina wrote: »

you can't do someone for ALMOST doing something can you?

It was ALMOST broken, the muscles and ligaments were torn though

foggy_lad

mmcn90 wrote: »

It was ALMOST broken, the muscles and ligaments were torn though

That case must be why so many BE buses no longer drop off passengers before O'Connell bridge, some still stop on Eden Quay. Suffice to say the driver had no right to touch the cyclist and should not have attacked him or knocked his phone from his hand! Will this guy be sacked from Bus Eireann over this?

Mr Simpson

foggy_lad wrote: »

That case must be why so many BE buses no longer drop off passengers before O'Connell bridge, some still stop on Eden Quay. Suffice to say the driver had no right to touch the cyclist and should not have attacked him or knocked his phone from his hand! Will this guy be sacked from Bus Eireann over this?

The article says the driver could not be served with notice of trial as he is in prison, I would imagine this means he no longer works for BE.

On a side note, I wonder did he ever work for BE or was he one of the many drivers driving buses leased to BE from private industry.

Patser

foggy_lad wrote: »

That case must be why so many BE buses no longer drop off passengers before O'Connell bridge, some still stop on Eden Quay. Suffice to say the driver had no right to touch the cyclist and should not have attacked him or knocked his phone from his hand! Will this guy be sacked from Bus Eireann over this?

I'm a Bus Eireann driver based in Broadstone and don't recognise his name or of hearing anything about him. I'd be fairly sure that if one of our driver's was jailed for anything, the gossip would have flown around the place.

Also the article mentions that the driver was out of the bus helping to unload passengers' luggae. This isn't the norm for BE drivers, we're told not to leave the cab unless really to assist someone struggling with luggage or disabled.

So my gut instinct is that this guy might be a private hire for BE, which makes me wonder why BE are being held accountable.

n97 mini

mmcn90 wrote: »

The article says the driver could not be served with notice of trial as he is in prison, I would imagine this means he no longer works for BE.

You'd never know, he could be on a career break while in prison!

There's another thread here about how IE had on staff a lad with convictions for assault and possession of weapons.

foggy_lad

Patser wrote: »

I'm a Bus Eireann driver based in Broadstone and don't recognise his name or of hearing anything about him. I'd be fairly sure that if one of our driver's was jailed for anything, the gossip would have flown around the place.

Also the article mentions that the driver was out of the bus helping to unload passengers' luggae. This isn't the norm for BE drivers, we're told not to leave the cab unless really to assist someone struggling with luggage or disabled.

So my gut instinct is that this guy might be a private hire for BE, which makes me wonder why BE are being held accountable.

yes it looks more like it was an "on-hire to Bus Eireann" service as all Bus Eireann coaches have automatic luggage doors and drivers usually dont need to help with luggage. Bus Eireann are still being held accountable as they provided the service regardless of who they employed to provide and drive the bus! They would also be accountable if one of those on-hire buses crashed.

Fuinseog

read this in todays Indo.

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/courts/cyclist-awarded-15000-after-thumb-almost-broken-by-roadrage-bus-driver-3003900.html

the driver was out of line to break his thumb, but should the cyclist have been on the footpath in the first place? This seems to be acceptable. I can well imagine the situation- you are standing on the footpath waiting to get your bag out of the bus when some cyclist goes to mow you down. sure you would be safer standing in the middle of the road.

I can understand the drivers anger and find the 'victim' a little too self-righteous.


oops, I see its already being discussed.

Fuinseog

the driver was out of line to break his thumb, but should the cyclist have been on the footpath in the first place? This seems to be acceptable. I can well imagine the situation- you are standing on the footpath waiting to get your bag out of the bus when some cyclist goes to mow you down. sure you would be safer standing in the middle of the road.

I can understand the drivers anger and find the 'victim' a little too self-righteous.

Tarabuses

"Mr Burns told the court he had cycled to and from work for 20 years and on August 28, 2009, had ridden up on the footpath at Bachelor's Walk, Dublin, to pass a coach parked on the street outside the Arlington Hotel."

This gives the impression that ridding on the footpath to pass the parked coach is quite normal behaviour.

Fuinseog

Tarabuses wrote: »

"Mr Burns told the court he had cycled to and from work for 20 years and on August 28, 2009, had ridden up on the footpath at Bachelor's Walk, Dublin, to pass a coach parked on the street outside the Arlington Hotel."

This gives the impression that ridding on the footpath to pass the parked coach is quite normal behaviour.

it is for some people and they see neither harm nor wrong in doing it. I do it myself sometimes but never on busy footpath such as people getting on or off a bus and I always yield and give space to any pedestrian. After all, I am encroaching on their space. couriers have deadlines to meet. too bad if you get in the way.I strongly suspect our hero was not paying heed to unfortunate pedestrians in his way. the driver was probably defending his passengers.

monument

Fuinseog wrote: »

the driver was out of line to break his thumb, but should the cyclist have been on the footpath in the first place? This seems to be acceptable. I can well imagine the situation- you are standing on the footpath waiting to get your bag out of the bus when some cyclist goes to mow you down. sure you would be safer standing in the middle of the road.

I can understand the drivers anger and find the 'victim' a little too self-righteous.

As I said on the cycling board:

I hate cyclists on footpaths, but I'd choice them on the footpaths any day over having to stand in the middle of most of the roads around Dublin.

He did not get 15k for cycling on a footpath, he got 15k because he was assaulted by bus driver while he was working.

foggy_lad

Tarabuses wrote: »

"Mr Burns told the court he had cycled to and from work for 20 years and on August 28, 2009, had ridden up on the footpath at Bachelor's Walk, Dublin, to pass a coach parked on the street outside the Arlington Hotel."

This gives the impression that ridding on the footpath to pass the parked coach is quite normal behaviour.

Or that as an experienced cyclist he preferred to mount the footpath and dismount and walk past the bus rather than try to cycle out into the lane of traffic.

Fuinseog wrote: »

it is for some people and they see neither harm nor wrong in doing it. I do it myself sometimes but never on busy footpath such as people getting on or off a bus and I always yield and give space to any pedestrian. After all, I am encroaching on their space. couriers have deadlines to meet. too bad if you get in the way.I strongly suspect our hero was not paying heed to unfortunate pedestrians in his way. the driver was probably defending his passengers.

I would think that he cycled up on the footpath and slowed down as it would be almost impossible to cycle on that stretch of footpath as the hotel has items of street furniture on the street, i would say he got off his bike once on the footpath and walked it past the bus where he was approached by the bus driver?

BostonB

foggy_lad wrote: »

... i would say he got off his bike once on the footpath and walked it past the bus where he was approached by the bus driver?

Maybe, if he was walking why would the driver confront him? That doesn't really add up either.

I'm guessing he cycled on the path to get round the bus, (then dismounted or not) gave out as he passed to the driver who was parked on double yellow in a bus lanes, words were exchanged, or then after that he got off the bike, to talk to the driver, take a photo etc. Who knows. Pity the newspaper didn't print more info about it. We're all left wondering.

Tarabuses

BostonB wrote: »

Maybe, if he was walking why would the driver confront him? That doesn't really add up either.

I'm guessing he cycled on the path to get round the bus, (then dismounted or not) gave out as he passed to the driver who was parked on double yellow in a bus lanes, words were exchanged, or then after that he got off the bike, to talk to the driver, take a photo etc. Who knows. Pity the newspaper didn't print more info about it. We're all left wondering.

foggy_lad wrote: »

Or that as an experienced cyclist he preferred to mount the footpath and dismount and walk past the bus rather than try to cycle out into the lane of traffic.



I would think that he cycled up on the footpath and slowed down as it would be almost impossible to cycle on that stretch of footpath as the hotel has items of street furniture on the street, i would say he got off his bike once on the footpath and walked it past the bus where he was approached by the bus driver?

Nowhere in the reports is there any mention of Mr Burns dismounting. I cannot see the point of speculating in this way.

schemingbohemia

Tarabuses wrote: »

Nowhere in the reports is there any mention of Mr Burns dismounting. I cannot see the point of speculating in this way.

If you were familiar with foggylad's oeuvre you would see the point.

BostonB

Tarabuses wrote: »

Nowhere in the reports is there any mention of Mr Burns dismounting. I cannot see the point of speculating in this way.

That was kinda my point. We don't know the details of what happened. As usual its sensational report devoid of key facts.

That said I'm not sure I could pick up my mobile from the ground, if on the bike.

foggy_lad

All we do know is that this driver is a thug who attacked a cyclist asaulting him and damaging his property who could not be served with papers relating to a civil case as he was in prison at the time!

Fuinseog

foggy_lad wrote: »

All we do know is that this driver is a thug who attacked a cyclist asaulting him and damaging his property who could not be served with papers relating to a civil case as he was in prison at the time!

we also know that the victim was cycling on the path recklessly endangering peoples lives.
he tried to take a picture of the driver without his permission. is that even legal? i know if I had a barney with someone and if they tried to take my picture I would be less than pleased.

BostonB

Fuinseog wrote: »

we also know that the victim was cycling on the path recklessly endangering peoples lives.
he tried to take a picture of the driver without his permission. is that even legal? i know if I had a barney with someone and if they tried to take my picture I would be less than pleased.

It says he was taking a photo of the registration. Where did you get he was taking a photo of a the driver from?

keithb93

The state of this country, 15 grand for a sore thumb! I might as well go around letting people break my fingers and then sue them. I would be rolling in the money.

monument

Fuinseog wrote: »

we also know that the victim was cycling on the path recklessly endangering peoples lives.
he tried to take a picture of the driver without his permission. is that even legal? i know if I had a barney with someone and if they tried to take my picture I would be less than pleased.

Yes, taking a picture of somebody in public is very much so legal. The report does not say he was taking a picture of the driver, but even if he was, there's nothing the driver can do but block his own face or walk away -- you do not need permission to take a photograph in a public street.

keithb93 wrote: »

The state of this country, 15 grand for a sore thumb! I might as well go around letting people break my fingers and then sue them. I would be rolling in the money.

Nobody received 15k for a sore thumb, they received 15k because they were at the other end of the criminal act of assault.

If you let people break your fingers it's not assault.

Fuinseog

this is the report from the indo which states that Burns took a photo of murray the driver.
are you telling me at a road rage incident if the other guy tried to take your photo you would not get worked up. You should try it sometime.



burns was out to get the driver sacked yet in my view Burns should be hauled before the court for reckless cycling. he should be fired as he sets a bad example for kids.the article states that people were standing about waiting to get their bags.


http://www.independent.ie/national-news/courts/cyclist-awarded-15000-after-thumb-almost-broken-by-roadrage-bus-driver-3003900.html

Tuesday January 31 2012
A CYCLIST had his thumb almost broken deliberately in a road-rage incident.

...

Mr Burns had gone around to the front of the coach and had pictured the registration on his phone before taking a photograph of Murray.

...

foggy_lad

That Murry chap sounds like a right thug! I wonder what he was in prison for? Will the new taxi laws include bus drivers with criminal convictions? This guy could be driving your kids to school!

Fuinseog

foggy_lad wrote: »

That Murry chap sounds like a right thug! I wonder what he was in prison for? Will the new taxi laws include bus drivers with criminal convictions? This guy could be driving your kids to school!

and burns could be given your kids tips on how to cycle through the morning traffic.

monument

Fuinseog wrote: »

this is the report from the indo which states that Burns took a photo of murray the driver.

Fair enough. As I said:

Yes, taking a picture of somebody in public is very much so legal... but even if he was, there's nothing the driver can do but block his own face or walk away -- you do not need permission to take a photograph in a public street.

Fuinseog wrote: »

are you telling me at a road rage incident if the other guy tried to take your photo you would not get worked up. You should try it sometime.

I'm saying I would not assault the other person.

Fuinseog wrote: »

burns was out to get the driver sacked yet in my view Burns should be hauled before the court for reckless cycling. he should be fired as he sets a bad example for kids.the article states that people were standing about waiting to get their bags.

Why are you so concerned with cycling on a footpath when the driver assaulted the cyclist?

How do you not understand that assault is far worse than cycling on a footpath?

Burns was not working at the time -- why should he be sacked for something he does outside of work?

foggy_lad

Fuinseog wrote: »

burns was out to get the driver sacked yet in my view Burns should be hauled before the court for reckless cycling. he should be fired as he sets a bad example for kids.the article states that people were standing about waiting to get their bags.

He was only trying to get past an illegally parked coach which was also illegally stopped where there was/is no stop for that coach and where passengers and the driver were causing an obstruction on the footpath,

Rather than risk life and limb by pulling into the main traffic lane at possibly the busiest junction in the City he decided to mount the footpath which is several feet in width but the bus driver began shouting at him!

Fuinseog

Why are you so concerned with cycling on a footpath when the driver assaulted the cyclist?

How do you not understand that assault is far worse than cycling on a footpath?

Burns was not working at the time -- why should he be sacked for something he does outside of work?

Burns works with kids. he should behave in a responsible manner whether he is in the childrens hospital or outside. what if he ran down a child on the footpath?
I have been run down by cyclists while walking on the footpath. that colours my opinion. people like burns believe their ****e smells better than anyone elses and they believe they have a right to things like cycle on paths. they also believe pedestrians should get out of their way.
someone takes a picture of me without asking, you never know how they are going to use it, and I would snatch their phone and delete the image.

Fuinseog

foggy_lad wrote: »

He was only trying to get past an illegally parked coach which was also illegally stopped where there was/is no stop for that coach and where passengers and the driver were causing an obstruction on the footpath,

Rather than risk life and limb by pulling into the main traffic lane at possibly the busiest junction in the City he decided to mount the footpath which is several feet in width but the bus driver began shouting at him!

I cycle and drive, but what Burns did was not responsible and it was dangerous. I am not getting out of the way of any cyclist when I am on the footpath.
its time cyclist were made obey the rules of the road.

BostonB

foggy_lad wrote: »

...Rather than risk life and limb by pulling into the main traffic lane at possibly the busiest junction in the City he decided to mount the footpath which is several feet in width but the bus driver began shouting at him!

Sorry but thats not correct. Its not a risk to life and limb, its how to cycle on a road. Many buses stop along here, theres bus stops there. So if you want to get past them, or If you simply want to turn right on to O'Connell Bridge, you need to get into the other lanes. If a cyclist is unable to do that he shouldn't be cycling on the road (or pavement) at all.

monument

Fuinseog wrote: »

I cycle and drive, but what Burns did was not responsible and it was dangerous. I am not getting out of the way of any cyclist when I am on the footpath.
its time cyclist were made obey the rules of the road.

Agreed, what he did was not responsible, but it does not changed anything else, he was assaulted and that is the worst wrong here.

If I was to use reasonable force to stop a cyclist on the footpath from hitting me, that would be a different story. The driver started shouting, assaulted the cyclist once, interfered with is property, and then assaulted him a second time more seriously -- that's aggression after the cyclist has passed.

Fuinseog wrote: »

Burns works with kids. he should behave in a responsible manner whether he is in the childrens hospital or outside. what if he ran down a child on the footpath?

So should everybody who works with children and who gets caught speeding or parking on a footpath etc lose their job even if they were not working at the time?

As much as I dislike cyclists and motorist driving up on footpaths, I think that would be an extrema and blur the line between work and personal life too much.

Fuinseog wrote: »

I have been run down by cyclists while walking on the footpath. that colours my opinion. people like burns believe their ****e smells better than anyone elses and they believe they have a right to things like cycle on paths. they also believe pedestrians should get out of their way.

I agree that they have no right to be on the footpath, it's wrong and they should not be there -- I have challenged more than a few cyclists for cycling on the footpath.

Fuinseog wrote: »

someone takes a picture of me without asking, you never know how they are going to use it, and I would snatch their phone and delete the image.

You would be committing assault and criminal damage.

You would be very much so in the wrong and could end up on front of a judge.

BostonB wrote: »

Sorry but thats not correct. Its not a risk to life and limb, its how to cycle on a road. Many buses stop along here, theres bus stops there. So if you want to get past them, or If you simply want to turn right on to O'Connell Bridge, you need to get into the other lanes. If a cyclist is unable to do that he shouldn't be cycling on the road (or pavement) at all.

Exactly, or just walk your bike on the footpath if you feel the need or the road is blocked etc.

miller50841

This just shows how great this country is its all about what I can get and what I am entitled to. There is to many cases of people claiming for something they probably started off themselves. CYCLISTS just need to cop on and put lights on their bike and open their eyes and watch where they are going. THE FOOTHPATH is called that for a reason its for feet not wheels. I understand our roads are dangerous and honestly these paint lines on the road they call cycle lanes are in most cases not wide enough, in very dangerous places and look the roads are just not wide enough. Most roads were only ever ment to take a horse and cart not everthing we have on it now. There has been many cases where I have been walking and had many near misses with cyclists and have been hit twice but they just laughed and kept going. I drive and cycle and the amount of times I have nearly flatened cyclists because they won't obey traffic signals or just common sense rules of the road.

Fuinseog

miller50841 wrote: »

This just shows how great this country is its all about what I can get and what I am entitled to. There is to many cases of people claiming for something they probably started off themselves. CYCLISTS just need to cop on and put lights on their bike and open their eyes and watch where they are going. THE FOOTHPATH is called that for a reason its for feet not wheels. I understand our roads are dangerous and honestly these paint lines on the road they call cycle lanes are in most cases not wide enough, in very dangerous places and look the roads are just not wide enough. Most roads were only ever ment to take a horse and cart not everthing we have on it now. There has been many cases where I have been walking and had many near misses with cyclists and have been hit twice but they just laughed and kept going. I drive and cycle and the amount of times I have nearly flatened cyclists because they won't obey traffic signals or just common sense rules of the road.

I encountered a cyclist on a slip road off the dual carriageway cycling on the wrong side of the road. I had to drive with extreme cation as was unsure what they would do next, but its okay because they were wearing a helmet.

in Dublin you have cycle lanes painted on the road and its hard to know what to do when you are cycling on one in busy traffic and another cyclist cycles on the same lane against you.

if you cycle a bike you are exempt from any rules.

BostonB

On a regular basis when I turn on to Aungier st, I meet cars driving head on, on the wrong side of the road towards me, as they try to skip the queue. To be honest it happens on a regular basis on a few roads.

monument

BostonB wrote: »

On a regular basis when I turn on to Aungier st, I meet cars driving head on, on the wrong side of the road towards me, as they try to skip the queue. To be honest it happens on a regular basis on a few roads.

I get that while walking and cycling in the city centre quite a bit.

Recently, was cycling west on North King Street and a woman pulled out from the side road just before Church Street, right in my path, and I had been travelling at fairly quickly.

I spotted here quickly enough to slow down and stop in time. She strangely seemed very annoyed that I stopped just at her door before hitting her car. Maybe it was my very bright bicycle light now in her face that she somehow missed when she decided to pull out in front of me?

It was only just right after I pulled away that I released that she had overtaken a truck turning left -- the truck had not moved in the last 30 seconds. So, not only did she pull out when I was very visible, but she also only managed to do so because she broke the law by passing out the truck at the junction. Then she had the cheek to be annoyed with my light in her face!

BostonB

I've noticed a few cyclists cycling the wrong direction in the one system in the phoenix park too. Day and night. And a few cars too for that matter. That could get Deer very quicky. Doh!

Mec-a-nic

Fuinseog wrote: »

its time cyclist were made obey the rules of the road.

I think it's time that everyone was made obey the rules of the road? An illegally parked bus was the start of this incident.. :rolleyes:

AlekSmart

BostonB wrote: »

On a regular basis when I turn on to Aungier st, I meet cars driving head on, on the wrong side of the road towards me, as they try to skip the queue. To be honest it happens on a regular basis on a few roads.

On an equally regular basis when I turn left from O Connell St into Parnell St,I meet cyclists cycling head-on,on the wrong side of the road towards me,as they avoid the dreadfulness of having to circumnavigate Parnell Square.To be equally honest,it also happens on a regular basis on most roads.

One morning I was forced to pull sharply across following traffic to avoid a gentleman cyclist with a large sack of rice balanced on the handlebars which he was attempting (unsuccessfully) to see around......I'm at a loss,Dear Frankie, as how I should broach the subject next time we meet.....

TheEndMyFriend

There is nothing in the article to suggest that when he mounted the footpath he was travelling at a speed or in such a way that would be dangerous to anyone.

While cycling at full speed along a footpath is stupidly dangerous and should result in serious penalties, cycling slowly and carefully along the path to avoid an illegally parked obstacle on the road is a very different matter altogether. There is not enough data here to make a determination that the cyclist was doing anything dangerous.

Certainly I see no evidence that he did anything that warranted being physically assaulted in the street, which is exactly what occurred.

It appears Bus Eireann need to vet their drivers more carefully in future. Given Mr Murray is in prison currently for some other reason, I suspect that even a very basic background check would have discovered that he was not the kind of person to be trusted with a bus full of people.

christmas2012

they should have more cycle lanes..

BostonB

How did you find this thread it's 6 months old!

by_odins_beard

I'm the cyclist in question and can clarify for you that I did in fact dismount my bike to walk around the bus driver on the footpath before I was assaulted. Obviously, I could not discuss on the forum previously as the case was in the appeal process.

by_odins_beard

glad it's over now

miller50841

Explain as to why things kicked off if you were walking

miller50841

by_odins_beard wrote: »

I'm the cyclist in question and can clarify for you that I did in fact dismount my bike to walk around the bus driver on the footpath before I was assaulted. Obviously, I could not discuss on the forum previously as the case was in the appeal process.

So if you were walking what was the problem and why would there be a problem

B0 SELECTRA

Well played Mr your 15 grand richer :cool:

by_odins_beard

I just wanted to clarify that one detail that has been reported incorrectly and a point of contention on the thread. As for the altercation, it's been a long day and to be honest, I'm not here to explain all of the other details.

miller50841

Your not the cyclist so? it takes 2 to tango dont believe you were just walking with your bike and kept your head down and said nothing honestly dont care just sick of people suing for everything

Victor

BostonB wrote: »

I've noticed a few cyclists cycling the wrong direction in the one system in the phoenix park too. Day and night. And a few cars too for that matter. That could get Deer very quicky. Doh!

Surely "Doe!". :pac:

Doe, a deer, a female deer
Ray, a drop of golden sun
Me, a name I call myself
Far, a long long way to run
...