Will RG6 do for Sky

ackd

I want to get Sky in and I want to run the cable myself. I have a roll of RG6. Will this do for Sky?

Cheers

Compton

Yes it'll do fine.

watty

Yes and no, usually not

There are many kinds of RG6. There is no longer and hasn't been for maybe 15 years any such cable as "RG6" alone. They are all RG6- something.

1) Some are rubbish (Copper plated Steel core, loose aluminium braid and metallised plastic as the foil screen, indoor only insulation).

2) Others are thick full coverage copper braid, solid copper foil, solid copper inner core wire and Outdoor grade plastic for UV or underground.

So it's impossible to say. Unless your so called "RG6" is the second kind, I'd not use it.

note you must not twist or kink the cable or have too tight a bend or the RF properties can be permanently degraded and even specific frequencies blocked.

watty

shblob wrote: »

Yes it'll do fine.

What basis do you say that without examining the cable? Are you an Engineer with Psychic powers?

Many "RG6" labelled cables are useless for Satellite. The original RG6 was only for cable TV up to 560MHz. Satellite IF is 950MHz to 2100MHz and needs very well screened to avoid interference in (GSM, DECT, 3G) or out.

Only some specific Belden versions are suitable.

ackd

Thanks Watty,

All it says is RG6 Foam Filled 1.0 ccs + 4.6F PE +AL Foil +AL Braiding

What do you reckon?

Cheers,
ackd

watty

Junk

moro_original

Seeing as you already have the cable, give it a go because it may well work fine. I've mangled cables with the garden strimmer before and still get Freesat.

watty

Most people's time is worth more than the cost of proper cable. Also inadequate cable cause inference to other users/services and may have intermittent issues.

moro_original

All I'm saying is that I've had about 40 metres of cheap RG6 cable buried in a boggy garden for about five years and I have twice mangled it with the strimmer and yet it still works perfectly for Freesat. There are even holes where the rain has been getting in, yet the box hasn't dipped from 90% signal strength and quality since day one.

Funny how the only times I've had picture breakup has been when the grass has overgrown the dish!

I admit that if you were buying new cable to do it from scratch you might invest in something better, but he already has the RG6.

watty

But we don't know how much interference you are creating, output level of your LNB, the margin on your reception and how much you are "Ok" because the GSM 900, 1800, 3G 2100 and DECT 1900 signals are low enough. Or even which RG6 cable you have.

You'll certainly need to replace it as it corrodes. Coax can't cope with wet. Have you checked every transponder with a test meter? Especially the Eurobird ones.

channelsurfer2

its foam filled? wouldnt this be as good as the WF100 foam filled or is it completly different
perhaps watty can you give us a laymans translation of the terms used on the cable -
"1.0 ccs + 4.6F PE +AL Foil +AL Braiding"
thanks

kbell

Diameter of the core + diameter of the foam + aluminium foil + aluminium braiding

watty

Al foil and braid = Cheap poor quality.
You need copper foil and braid. Also you must not be able to see the inner foil (or insulation if foil cracked and pulled out) AT ALL thorough the braid.

There are many types of Foam.
WF100 foam is crush resistant, low loss dielectric at 2GHz and Hydrophobic (repels moisture).

Cheaper foams can be any mix of bad properties:
Delectric good only for 150MHz, 600MHz
Easily crushed and doesn't spring back
Even Hydrophilic (wicks up moisture and performance degrades badly over a year or so)

Aluminium braid / foil sets up an electrochemical reaction with Copper to accelerate corrosion. The Braid also rots as unlike Alloy sheet it's too fine to get a stabilising film of oxide. It turns into a ceramic powder.

Aluminium is much poorer than Gold as a conductor which is poorer than copper. Only pure real Silver beats copper among "normal" materials.

Aluminium (Al) is for cheapness of indoor only TV cable up to 600MHz or 700MHz or very short indoor runs up to 850MHz. Satellite feed is 950MHz to 2100MHz.

watty

channelsurfer2 wrote: »

its foam filled? wouldnt this be as good as the WF100 foam filled or is it completly different
perhaps watty can you give us a laymans translation of the terms used on the cable -
"1.0 ccs + 4.6F PE +AL Foil +AL Braiding"
thanks

Completely different. Would do only for loft TV aerial (Direct drop above wall point). But WF100 or PF100 would be better.

moro_original

Hi watty, my satellite cable has had a few holes in it for the last two winters. I'm sure the inside of the cable is pretty damp if the corrosion around the holes is anything to go by, yet it still works.

In fairness, no I haven't checked every transponder, but there isn't a channel on the Freesat box that doesn't work.

When it does finally break, I'll replace it with some WF100 in a duct. I'm actually as surprised as you are that it does work. I only put it in because I had the cable lying about and I didn't want to wait on new cable coming from ebay, so I just sort of cut a groove in the grass with a spade and poked the cable in with a stick.

I've also got about 50 metres of 8-core burglar alarm wire running outside the house carrying Gigabit LAN (tested for curiosity, gets about 800 Mbps throughput).

Does the conductivity of aluminium / copper matter much at satellite IF frequencies? From what I've read, the difference in attenuation is about 20 dB/100m for WF100 and 21.5 db/100m for RG6. Not really much of a difference.

bulbs2010

ackd that cable will do the job .Some people try to make a science out of a simple sat install,Half the countrys installs are connected onto existing cableing in attics whith no problems

Peter Rhea

bulbs2010 wrote: »

. . . that cable will do the job .Some people try to make a science out of a simple sat install,Half the countrys installs are connected onto existing cableing in attics whith no problems

Rubbish, this forum is full of threads started by people with problems caused by just those kinds of installations.

watty

moro_original wrote: »

From what I've read, the difference in attenuation is about 20 dB/100m for WF100 and 21.5 db/100m for RG6. Not really much of a difference.

Where and what frequency? What screening isolation in and out in dB? That's a meaningless statement.
As I said earlier there is NO SUCH THING as "plain RG6" it's all RG6-"something". You can get a copper/copper/copper/copper (core centre, core surface, foil, braid) "RG6-something" identical to WF100 with a particular part number from Belden. RG6 as a family just means a particular size of 75 Ohm Coax, says nothing about quality. I'm not surprised when badly damaged poor cable works. I never said I was. A domestic receiver won't tell you the problems you have, or are creating for other spectrum users.

If installing you do it properly. Your time is important and irreplaceable. Intermittent issues are nasty to track down and bad cables creates problems to non-satellite users of RF.

RG6 doesn't specify a cable type. It specifies a family of coax cable of 75 Ohm with a 1mm inner conductor.

Tony

bulbs2010 wrote: »

Some people try to make a science out of a simple sat install,

Must disagree theres lots of science involved and to say a sat install is simple tells me a lot about your experience of doing same. How exactly do you know about "half the country's installs" ?

moro_original

In fairness, bulbs2010 has a point. Not so long ago there was a heated debate on the correct torque to use to put on F-type connectors.

(seriously, there really was )

Tony

moro_original wrote: »

In fairness, bulbs2010 has a point.

Again I must disagree, this is nothing but a half baked assumption (by bulbs) with no evidence to back it up

bulbs2010 wrote: »

.Half the countrys installs are connected onto existing cableing in attics whith no problems

Since the OP already has the cable then it makes sense to try it out assuming A. The run is not over 20 to 25m and is not too difficult

B. The RG6 is of decent quality with low enough loss and decent shielding.

watty

Aluminium braid version of RG6 is usually the next to worst kind. The worst version is copper plated steel inner core, aluminium braid that is loose and metallised plastic instead of foil.

The Aluminium versions just don't last at all outdoor. I've had "decent" RG6 in my possession, but most I've seen is only indoor TV aerial drop cable quality.

bulbs2010

Tony wrote: »

Must disagree theres lots of science involved and to say a sat install is simple tells me a lot about your experience of doing same. How exactly do you know about "half the country's installs" ?

I am an electrician who served my time in irish cable and wire ,then I worked as a service engineer whith cmi cable tv,then chorus and upc for 15 years ,for the past 4 years I install sky and tv repair in a tv shop

Tony

bulbs2010 wrote: »

I am an electrician who served my time in irish cable and wire ,then I worked as a service engineer whith cmi cable tv,then chorus and upc for 15 years ,for the past 4 years I install sky and tv repair in a tv shop

Good for you but whats your point ? Your statement about "half the country's installs " is based on what exactly?

I wonder is it just coincidence that every time I've encountered the wrong cable being installed as part of a house build or renovation its an electrician that has done it ?

watty

Or that the worst parts of UPC's network are the ex-chorus / CMI parts. A lot of MMDS downleads even done with generic so called "RG59". I get VHF band interference from next door's MMDS downlead as it's some kind of Rubbish version of "RG6". But I suspect UPC doesn't know and didn't install it.

Cable TV in the past barely used above 470MHz. UPC has brought Cable TV into the UHF band. Satellite IF on coax is 950MHz to 2100MHz.

Maybe half the Country's Installs are poor.

Ronnie Raygun

bulbs2010 wrote: »

Half the countrys installs are connected onto existing cableing in attics whith no problems

Like this one?

moro_original

It would seem that no one here is actually a professor of high frequency electronics.

Bunch of amateurs. :P

L1011

bulbs2010 wrote: »

I am an electrician who served my time in irish cable and wire ,then I worked as a service engineer whith cmi cable tv,then chorus and upc for 15 years ,for the past 4 years I install sky and tv repair in a tv shop

And an installer who does pretty crap jobs, if you think using the "existing cabling" (often antique and cheap at the time) is suitable.

Something which works on the dry day you installed it on isn't guaranteed to work in the wet, when there's leaves on the trees, etc, if you've used crap cables.

Alu braid/foil is crap cables.

If your unprofessional over cables, what other corners get cut?

moro_original

MYOB wrote: »

If your unprofessional over cables, what other corners get cut?

He probably doesn't use oxygen free copper.

Liameter

Tony wrote: »

Since the OP already has the cable then it makes sense to try it out assuming

A. The run is not over 20 to 25m and is not too difficult

B. The RG6 is of decent quality with low enough loss and decent shielding.

C. He doesn't mind replacing it after a year or so because it will deteriorate quickly outdoors unless very well protected. (Run it inside a waterproof conduit or give it several thick coats of paint and make sure the connections are properly weather proofed.)

BuzzG

How about RG6U High Performance 2.25 GHz Digital Cable 013M? Have that myself. How does that rate?

Liameter

You should read Watty's posts.

RG6/U is generally used for CCTV. It's not a tight specification. You need to determine the dB loss per metre at 2.25 GHz and the construction of the dielectric and screening.

The description "Digital" in reference to coaxial cable is marketing hype and would worry me. There's obviously no such thing as "digital cable". It's about as meaningful as "digital carrot".

Tony

Liameter wrote: »

It's about as meaningful as "digital carrot".

bulbs2010

MYOB wrote: »

And an installer who does pretty crap jobs, if you think using the "existing cabling" (often antique and cheap at the time) is suitable.

Something which works on the dry day you installed it on isn't guaranteed to work in the wet, when there's leaves on the trees, etc, if you've used crap cables.

Alu braid/foil is crap cables.

If your unprofessional over cables, what other corners get cut?

How do you know what cables I use??,I dont use rg6 when im doing a sat install.I told the guy that started this thread that he could use it,because in my experience doing service calls it rearly causes any problems.And as for cutting corners "I dont" I have been working in the cable and satellite industry all my life

NewHillel

moro_original wrote: »

In fairness, bulbs2010 has a point. Not so long ago there was a heated debate on the correct torque to use to put on F-type connectors.

(seriously, there really was )

It's amazing the number of installers that don't know that 2-3 newton-meters of torque is recommended for metal fittings. (No more than 1 newton-meter is recommended for connectors mounted to PCB's.)

NewHillel

ackd wrote: »

I want to get Sky in and I want to run the cable myself. I have a roll of RG6. Will this do for Sky?

Cheers

It might, or might not, as Watty says. If money was extremely tight, I'd probably give it a go. However, if not, I'd invest in a satellite grade cable, of known specification.

kbell

Liameter wrote: »

There's obviously no such thing as "digital cable". It's about as meaningful as "digital carrot".

Or Digital Aerial.

L1011

bulbs2010 wrote: »

How do you know what cables I use??,I dont use rg6 when im doing a sat install.I told the guy that started this thread that he could use it,because in my experience doing service calls it rearly causes any problems.And as for cutting corners "I dont" I have been working in the cable and satellite industry all my life

Because you stated that using "existing cabling" was OK. If you don't do this, how do you have any opinion of it?

watty

Just to re-iterate:
RG6 is a generic term for 1mm inner core double screened coax cable
RG6U or RG6/U is a generic term for RG6 cable that might be weatherproof.

Without a FULL part number and Manufacturers data sheet it's impossible to say if any RG6 cable is suitable for Satellite IF.

However you can say any of these versions of RG6 are not suitable:
Metallized plastic for foil
Aluminium braid (not tinned copper)
Tinned braid (Tin is VERY much poorer conductor than Al or copper and RF all flows on surface)
Loose braid that has gaps.

If your RG6 has a full part number starting with RG6U or RG6/U and is copper foil, copper braid (with no gaps) and solid copper inner (not steel plated with copper as LNB takes DC) then it's possibly suitable. Look up the part number.

RG6 or RG6/U or RG6U is NOT a cable type or specification. It's simply a US designation of a particular size of 75 Ohm cable (1mm inner core wire), a family of cables such as XX100 is a 1mm core cable where XX can be any two letters.

Cesium Clock

NewHillel wrote: »

It's amazing the number of installers that don't know that 2-3 newton-meters of tongue is recommended for metal fittings. (No more than 1 newton-meter is recommended for connectors mounted to PCB's.)

how do you know, have you done a survey of installers TONGUES ?

moro_original

NewHillel wrote: »

It's amazing the number of installers that don't know that 2-3 newton-meters of tongue is recommended for metal fittings. (No more than 1 newton-meter is recommended for connectors mounted to PCB's.)

Quality!

I think I actually lost sleep not knowing if my own F-type connectors were tightened to the correct torque!

watty

Why is there an up thumb and no down thumb?

If we don't seem red limes, wee assume hat everything is spelt correctly.

Auto correction when you are tired is nasty too.

bulbs2010

MYOB wrote: »

Because you stated that using "existing cabling" was OK. If you don't do this, how do you have any opinion of it?

what are you talking about,? cant understand your reply

NewHillel

moro_original wrote: »

Quality!

I think I actually lost sleep not knowing if my own F-type connectors were tightened to the correct torque!

You could say I was talking tongue in cheek.

L1011

bulbs2010 wrote: »

what are you talking about,? cant understand your reply

My reply is very clear.

You said the "existing cabling" is generally OK for satellite downlinks. How could you know this unless you're doing a shoddy job and using it?

watty

NewHillel wrote: »

You could say I was talking tongue in cheek.

And I thought you meant fancy American stuff from Blonder Tongue
http://www.blondertongue.com/

moro_original

MYOB wrote: »

How could you know this unless you're doing a shoddy job and using it?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epistemology

bulbs2010

MYOB wrote: »

My reply is very clear.

You said the "existing cabling" is generally OK for satellite downlinks. How could you know this unless you're doing a shoddy job and using it?

I do lots of service calls I come accross lots of different problems,and generally the existing cable is ok.

Ronnie Raygun

By "ok" do you mean that the cable appears to be in good condition or that it was fit for purpose in the first place?

bulbs2010

Ronnie Raygun wrote: »

By "ok" do you mean that the cable appears to be in good condition or that it was fit for purpose in the first place?

well if it worked fine before and the cable appears to be in good condition more that lightly its still"ok"and something else may be causing the problem.

watty

generally the existing cable is ok.

Worked for what? MMDS IF, UHF TV and Satellite IF are three quite different bands.

Unless there is a part number on the cable how do you know? Or have you got €5,000 worth of test gear?