Internships

TheMilkyPirate

In my seemingly never ending search for a job what i have noticed lately is the lack of real jobs around that have been replaced by these "internships"

I'm talking about the ones that offer you €50 on top of your regular social welfare payment. In my case if i took up one i would then be working a 40 hour week for €185.

It's gotten to the stage now where i would nearly take it to be honest, There is one in a local car dealership around where i live offering an internship as a car valet. It's 9 months long but what i am wondering is would i have any chance of getting a full time job out of this?

I mean why would they offer me a full time contract when they could just let me go and take on another desperate person.

What's your opinion? Are they genuine internships where by you might get the chance at a full time contract based on your performance? Or is it just a way for the company to get cheap labour for a while.

srsly78

An internship where you learn something could be worth it. Depends on how valuable the skill is. Car Valeting would rank pretty low on the value scale.

Doc Ruby

baraca wrote: »

Or is it just a way for the company to get cheap labour for a while.

That's the one. Its an IBEC sponsored piece of legislation the blueshirts are using to massage unemployment figures.

tallaghtmick

I hate thes fake internships,jobs that are too scabby to pay someone properly will just keep advertising these when the initial period is up.

TheMilkyPirate

srsly78 wrote: »

An internship where you learn something could be worth it. Depends on how valuable the skill is. Car Valeting would rank pretty low on the value scale.

I understand it isn't really a great skill, But it's something i would be interested in, I like working with cars and was an apprentice mechanic when i was younger for a year. I think i would enjoy it.

Doc Ruby wrote: »

That's the one. Its an IBEC sponsored piece of legislation the blueshirts are using to massage unemployment figures.

I thought as much, It's disappointing really, Every second job on the websites these days is one of these internships, They just seem to be taking advantage and it's making it harder to get a full time job.

marketty

FFS 9 months to 'train' as a car valet, who approves this crap?

Edit: OP any opportunities for you to finish your apprenticeship? An apprentice would be paid more than this and you would actually be working towards a qualification and a genuine skill rather than being exploited like this

It depends what it is. Most internships are just mind-numbing entry level jobs where you learn nothing except how to make tea and photocopy. I'm currently doing one (two afternoons a week, as I have a paying job as well) where people actually take time to explain things and I'm given actual responsibilities, with people checking my work and giving feedback. That's how internships are supposed to work. You're supposed to get more from them then they do from you, otherwise it's just exploitation.

krudler

baraca wrote: »

In my seemingly never ending search for a job what i have noticed lately is the lack of real jobs around that have been replaced by these "internships"

I'm talking about the ones that offer you €50 on top of your regular social welfare payment. In my case if i took up one i would then be working a 40 hour week for €185.

It's gotten to the stage now where i would nearly take it to be honest, There is one in a local car dealership around where i live offering an internship as a car valet. It's 9 months long but what i am wondering is would i have any chance of getting a full time job out of this?

I mean why would they offer me a full time contract when they could just let me go and take on another desperate person.

What's your opinion? Are they genuine internships where by you might get the chance at a full time contract based on your performance? Or is it just a way for the company to get cheap labour for a while.

why? for an extra few quid you'd lose all your spare time doing a pretty crappy job? take up a hobby or do a course in something instead of adding to the unemployment exploitation problem.

marketty

Anthony Nervous Rambler wrote: »

It depends what it is. Most internships are just mind-numbing entry level jobs where you learn nothing except how to make tea and photocopy.

This is true, but at least if the title of the internship is something like 'intern accounting technician/developer/lab technician' or whatever it sounds better on your CV even if you do end up making tea and photocopying

Phill Ewinn

That isn't an intership. The lad offering you that position is breaking the law. If you want to be a party to criminal activity, fine. It may backfire on you.

Come next election we could see people like him prosecuted. Hopefully people will cop on when it's time to vote again.

mike65

The whole market has become skewed, what were genuine fully paid up positions are now 9 months of almost free labour at the end of which you will be shown the door and the whole thing starts over. Strip out Interns, WPP and CE schemes and it turns out about 50% of jobs are "real".

PhoenixParker

Wonderful, the guy running the valet car business hires a few interns for 9 months a piece at a cost of E50 a week to him.

He can then charge customers E10 instead of E20 for car valeting services, attracting all his competitors customers and he's making a higher margin then he did before.

The guy down the road who needs to actually pay his employees and his mortgage can't match that and ends up going out of business and on the dole too.

Excellent scheme!

someuser905

this is the race to the bottom

CatFromHue

PhoenixParker wrote: »

Wonderful, the guy running the valet car business hires a few interns for 9 months a piece at a cost of E50 a week to him.

He can then charge customers E10 instead of E20 for car valeting services, attracting all his competitors customers and he's making a higher margin then he did before.

The guy down the road who needs to actually pay his employees and his mortgage can't match that and ends up going out of business and on the dole too.

Excellent scheme!

The business doesn't pay E50, the govt do as a top of your social welfare. It was brought in to cover travelling expenses.

The business pays nothing to an intern.

Biggins

Anthony Nervous Rambler wrote: »

It depends what it is. Most internships are just mind-numbing entry level jobs where you learn nothing except how to make tea and photocopy. I'm currently doing one (two afternoons a week, as I have a paying job as well) where people actually take time to explain things and I'm given actual responsibilities, with people checking my work and giving feedback. That's how internships are supposed to work. You're supposed to get more from them then they do from you, otherwise it's just exploitation.

Well put!
(...As is marketty's post)

Laurenisme

Hey there.

These internship can actually be really worth it!!! I finished my degree in 2010 and like most people found it really really hard to find a job, especially as I had not yet any experience in the field that i am looking for.

Last year i started one of these internships with Donegal county council, I had lots of responsibilities such as updating one of their websites but also producing two of their tourism brochures on my own (researching the sites and actually writing the brochure myself), designed by a company. I have now the satisfaction of being able to see these brochures in tourist offices across donegal, sligo, derry etc. But also practical skills such as writing terms of references, researching design companies and meeting with them on my own. Not to mention further experience with Microsoft Excel and Access, Tourism Market Research and so on.

Just coming out of college, this internship gave me great confidence in myself to believe that i can do such complicated jobs on my own. Where as if I had not done such an internship I would feel even more un-sure of my capabilities.
But also the internship helped me to create contacts and links within the, and don't forget the skills that i had accomplished. Updating websites (experience with Content Management Systems), I would never of needed such a skill before but now I can gladly put it on my CV that i can do this.

But also the skill of writing terms of references, this along with experience with content management systems are useful for the type of job i will some day hopefully get within the social sector, (working with the homeless and disadvantaged). I may need some more experience in order to obtain such a job but at least i am on my way, and have some experience under my belt and feeling better about what i can do. As we all know from being unemployed it can eat away at your self confidence.

Well anyway what I am trying to say, they can actually be really helpful. You just need to keep in my will the internship benefit me, otherwise there might not be too much of a point in doing it.

TheZohanS

baraca wrote: »

I understand it isn't really a great skill, But it's something i would be interested in, I like working with cars and was an apprentice mechanic when i was younger for a year. I think i would enjoy it.



I thought as much, It's disappointing really, Every second job on the websites these days is one of these internships, They just seem to be taking advantage and it's making it harder to get a full time job.

It's not rocket science but there is a bit of skill to car valeting and there's a gulf of difference between a good car valet and a bad one. If it's something you think you'd enjoy then go for it. Learn as much as you can and start your own business. AFAIK Fas give grants of up to €1,500 for anyone starting a cleaning business such as this so in 9 months time you should have the skills to do your own thing.

mattjack

mike65 wrote: »

The whole market has become skewed, what were genuine fully paid up positions are now 9 months of almost free labour at the end of which you will be shown the door and the whole thing starts over. Strip out Interns, WPP and CE schemes and it turns out about 50% of jobs are "real".

I don't know anything about the Internship's or WPP, but CE schemes only provide employees to either community groups or charity's .All have an obligation to employ people with disabilities , I think 5% of their workface.All also have a budget to allow people to train or upskill .
The rules has changed recently ,but it was possible to be on a CE scheme up to six years.

Though I do agree with you, these schemes do skewer the market and are open to abuse.

Dudess

I like when it's used for stuff that is crippled for funding anyway - like galleries, museums, theatres... but Tesco and the like: scandalous.

quietriot

The internship scheme is disappointing because instead of creating a new position for an intern and continuing with normal employment, those involved are taking interns on instead of normal employees, saving themselves money and making no dent on the unemployment figures.

We should have a "work for dole" scheme to occupy the unemployed - it'd have a lot of potential, our public areas/businesses could be cleaned/maintained with basic skills, our roads could be cleared, etc. It'd give them something to do, something to put on the cv and get value for the money the taxpayer is spending.

mattjack

quietriot wrote: »

The internship scheme is disappointing because instead of creating a new position for an intern and continuing with normal employment, those involved are taking interns on instead of normal employees, saving themselves money and making no dent on the unemployment figures.

We should have a "work for dole" scheme to occupy the unemployed - it'd have a lot of potential, our public areas/businesses could be cleaned/maintained with basic skills, our roads could be cleared, etc. It'd give them something to do, something to put on the cv and get value for the money the taxpayer is spending.

We do ,its called Tus.

Cantona's Collars

The backlash against these internships has begun in the UK.Tesco were deemed one of the biggest abusers of the scheme plus the 'Jobs Tzar' is under investigation.

I wonder if a bit of digging was done here how much abuse of the system by companies was taking place? Take Dixons: an internship in loading fridges on a van???

'Suspend back to work tsar': MPs demand Cameron acts after police launch fraud inquiry over job placements

Emma Harrison's firm A4e is accused of receiving fees from the taxpayer after finding people jobs lasting just 24 hours
The company has won state contracts worth millions over the last 20 years
She awarded herself £8.6million of mainly taxpayers' cash this month
David Cameron had hailed her an 'inspiration' to his employment campaign
But Labour MPs claim A4e's record on finding people jobs is 'abysmal'


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2103522/Suspend-work-tsar-MPs-demand-action-fraud-probe-job-placement-scheme.html#ixzz1muf7Am28

Tesco is to hold crisis talks with employment officials as the row over the supermarket chain’s use of ‘slave labour’ intensifies.

Several high-profile companies have already pulled out of the Government’s under-fire ‘workfare’ scheme and the food retail giant is getting increasingly jittery after one of its stores was forced to close by protesters.

Critics say the scheme enables companies to take on staff at little or no cost, with no guarantee of a job at the end of the placement.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2103566/Crisis-talks-Tesco-supermarket-demands-changes-unpaid-work-scheme.html#ixzz1mufdYaGm

Ignore the bit in the second article about Cian Reilly taking a case saying that working in Poundland violated her human rights,there was a thread about this already and it turned out she was being paid an hourly rate for working but felt the job was beneath her.Apparently voluntary work in a Pen Museum while claiming benefits was better despite her being a qualified geologist.

PhoenixParker

Laurenisme wrote: »

Hey there.

These internship can actually be really worth it!!! I finished my degree in 2010 and like most people found it really really hard to find a job, especially as I had not yet any experience in the field that i am looking for.

Last year i started one of these internships with Donegal county council, I had lots of responsibilities such as updating one of their websites but also producing two of their tourism brochures on my own (researching the sites and actually writing the brochure myself), designed by a company. I have now the satisfaction of being able to see these brochures in tourist offices across donegal, sligo, derry etc. But also practical skills such as writing terms of references, researching design companies and meeting with them on my own. Not to mention further experience with Microsoft Excel and Access, Tourism Market Research and so on.

Just coming out of college, this internship gave me great confidence in myself to believe that i can do such complicated jobs on my own. Where as if I had not done such an internship I would feel even more un-sure of my capabilities.
But also the internship helped me to create contacts and links within the, and don't forget the skills that i had accomplished. Updating websites (experience with Content Management Systems), I would never of needed such a skill before but now I can gladly put it on my CV that i can do this.

But also the skill of writing terms of references, this along with experience with content management systems are useful for the type of job i will some day hopefully get within the social sector, (working with the homeless and disadvantaged). I may need some more experience in order to obtain such a job but at least i am on my way, and have some experience under my belt and feeling better about what i can do. As we all know from being unemployed it can eat away at your self confidence.

Well anyway what I am trying to say, they can actually be really helpful. You just need to keep in my will the internship benefit me, otherwise there might not be too much of a point in doing it.

First, you're just out of college, a place where you have spent four years being taught things by very expensive people, in very expensive buildings with very expensive equipment. Yet you don't have the confidence or the ability to start a basic job? There is something very wrong with our education system, not just ours, it's a worldwide phenomenon that the academic industry has sold people on. Must have education to get job, oh look you're not qualified, must get masters, oh look not experienced, must work for free . . .

Second while it's wonderful for you that you got the opportunity to gain these skills, the reality is you got had. You/the government/your parents have spent alot of time and put in a lot of work to educate you to the point where you could even start to do those jobs and they're not willing to pay you decently for it? And while they're not paying you decently they're also not paying someone else out there decently. So the government is subsidising you to live while they're undercutting the real and formerly viable business of someone who can do the job. Now instead of one person on the dole, they'll have you doing an internship and someone else whose business has gone under.

Make work jobs for the dole is the same thing. If the government wants the streets cleaned or the schools painted or whatever, then hire someone to do it and pay them a wage. The economic benefits will far outweigh the benefits of any sort of fake internship/make work scheme.

IrishEyes19

PhoenixParker wrote: »

First, you're just out of college, a place where you have spent four years being taught things by very expensive people, in very expensive buildings with very expensive equipment. Yet you don't have the confidence or the ability to start a basic job? There is something very wrong with our education system, not just ours, it's a worldwide phenomenon that the academic industry has sold people on. Must have education to get job, oh look you're not qualified, must get masters, oh look not experienced, must work for free . . .

Second while it's wonderful for you that you got the opportunity to gain these skills, the reality is you got had. You/the government/your parents have spent alot of time and put in a lot of work to educate you to the point where you could even start to do those jobs and they're not willing to pay you decently for it? And while they're not paying you decently they're also not paying someone else out there decently. So the government is subsidising you to live while they're undercutting the real and formerly viable business of someone who can do the job. Now instead of one person on the dole, they'll have you doing an internship and someone else whose business has gone under.

Make work jobs for the dole is the same thing. If the government wants the streets cleaned or the schools painted or whatever, then hire someone to do it and pay them a wage. The economic benefits will far outweigh the benefits of any sort of fake internship/make work scheme.

+ 1 to this. Internships are nothing more than exploiting people. It must be very satisfactory for a company to get an eager person is who has been trying desperately to get a job somewhere to work for free for a year and now you have tescos and other retail shops doing the same. what a bargin for a business like. absolute joke.

Disko biscuits

quietriot wrote: »

We should have a "work for dole" scheme to occupy the unemployed - it'd have a lot of potential, our public areas/businesses could be cleaned/maintained with basic skills, our roads could be cleared, etc. It'd give them something to do, something to put on the cv and get value for the money the taxpayer is spending.

I am on the dole and I would NEVER do that, why? because I am 18 and did my leaving cert. was it my generation that brought this country to it's knees? NO I had no say when it came to votes. It was the "older" genertaion along with many other factors. "Work for dole" I get 100e off of the dole and you want me to clean dirt for that just so it's "something to put on the CV"? I have been handing out CVs and doing courses and still no luck, I've even considered doing an Internship but the only ones that are still up are "library assistant" or "Deli Assistant", 9 months to learn them? thats a ****ing joke and because I choose not to be a "Deli Assistant" for 9 months with an extra 50e (travel + lunch = 50e gone) on top of my 100e I should be made pick chewing gum off of the road? No wonder the youth of Ireland is now in Australia.

starbelgrade

PhoenixParker wrote: »

Wonderful, the guy running the valet car business hires a few interns for 9 months a piece at a cost of E50 a week to him.

He can then charge customers E10 instead of E20 for car valeting services, attracting all his competitors customers and he's making a higher margin then he did before.

The guy down the road who needs to actually pay his employees and his mortgage can't match that and ends up going out of business and on the dole too.

Excellent scheme!

The scheme is open to all employers. So the guy down the road has the same chance of getting an intern in as the guy up the road.

There are many faults with this scheme, but this is not actually one of them.

Disko biscuits

If a company has not got an internship position on the jobsbridge website can you still get on there if you ask the manager.. has anyone got any work from finishing one of these?

starbelgrade

Disko biscuits wrote: »

If a company has not got an internship position on the jobsbridge website can you still get on there if you ask the manager.

You'd have to get him / her to advertise the position through the website.

Disko biscuits

starbelgrade wrote: »

You'd have to get him / her to advertise the position through the website.

Thanks for the reply pal

kincsem

If you get into a business you get a chance to be viewed by those who run the business.

Disko biscuits

kincsem wrote: »

If you get into a business you get a chance to be viewed by those who run the business.

Thats true, although I've still yet to hear someone who got kept on or enjoyed the experience. in 2 minds whether to give it a go or just keep on handing out CVs...pffff

dark_shadow

Don't care if its been said already but "what a ****ing joke"!!

Government expect to pay people less, pay them less for the same work as other people do and expect them to be happy. I've been there done that and WON'T do it again!!:mad:

Freddie59

baraca wrote: »

What's your opinion? Are they genuine internships where by you might get the chance at a full time contract based on your performance? Or is it just a way for the company to get cheap labour for a while.

They are an absolute abomination, with multinational chain stores getting, as you rightly describe it, cheap labour. An internship? In how to unload lorries and stack shelves?

If they are serious about this, these should only be offered to new startup companies. But then you couldn't massage the dole figures. Sigh.

NinjaK

The real problem with this Internship is that they let go people after 9 months, if they were required to take then on after the 9 months it would be much better. Its a farce at the moment.

bnt

someuser905 wrote: »

this is the race to the bottom

Yes, it is. It's also the effect of supply vs. demand. So many things that people used to do by hand are now done by machine, much more efficiently, such as farming - or, where people are needed, they often can be done where people are cheaper, in China, India, etc. There is not much genuine value creation going on in Ireland, and those activities don't require masses of people who have poor-to-moderate education. Selling stuff to each other doesn't count: sales doesn't create value, it merely shuffles money around.

This is hardly a new problem, of course - it's one that Karl Marx was trying to solve when he invented Communism - but that wasn't a solution, either. Even the current "Chinese solution" - capitalism under strict government financial controls - only works for now because no-one else is doing it.

So, what next? Beats me.

Disko biscuits

Has anyone actually done one that they gained something out of it? as stated by another poster you can't really gain experience by stacking shelvs for 9 months.
Was going to do one of these but after reading this there is not a chance I would go near these internships :mad:

dvpower

Disko biscuits wrote: »

Has anyone actually done one that they gained something out of it? as stated by another poster you can't really gain experience by stacking shelvs for 9 months.
Was going to do one of these but after reading this there is not a chance I would go near these internships :mad:

You do get a choice of the internships you apply to, so you don't have to apply for something that involves stacking shelves.
I presume there are interviews for these internship positions, so you can ask the employer what work is involved and what training is involved.

later12

One of my siblings was searching for jobs one morning recently and saw her old position advertised as an internship. It is indeed a role that people tend to start off in, yet is a professional position that requires a finance/ maths degree, and is being passed off as an internship opportunity by a large financial institution posting considerable profits.

I'm not sure the DSP are getting their oversight quite right on this.

forfuxsake

bnt wrote: »

Yes, it is. It's also the effect of supply vs. demand. So many things that people used to do by hand are now done by machine, much more efficiently, such as farming - or, where people are needed, they often can be done where people are cheaper, in China, India, etc. There is not much genuine value creation going on in Ireland, and those activities don't require masses of people who have poor-to-moderate education. Selling stuff to each other doesn't count: sales doesn't create value, it merely shuffles money around.

This is hardly a new problem, of course - it's one that Karl Marx was trying to solve when he invented Communism - but that wasn't a solution, either. Even the current "Chinese solution" - capitalism under strict government financial controls - only works for now because no-one else is doing it.

So, what next? Beats me.

skynet

forfuxsake

I was let go from a company two years ago as they couldn't afford to keep me on. I was the sole permanent employee. Apart from the two directors they have no permanent staff. They have an announcement on their website they have been accepted for the internship programme. So looks like the temporary staff they took on from time to time will be gone too.

madness.

Mars Bar

I got turned down for an internship because I "didn't have enough experience".

Ehm, that's why I was applying for it.

MungBean

NinjaK wrote: »

The real problem with this Internship is that they let go people after 9 months, if they were required to take then on after the 9 months it would be much better. Its a farce at the moment.

Exactly, if company gets 9 months to train someone to do a job at the states expense knowing they have no need for that person after that they arent going to be too worried about the individual and actually training them. They will just exploit them while they have them.

If they were obliged to keep them for another 9 months at full pay then the first 9 would be spent on actually training to person to make sure once they have to take them on they are well trained and capable of doing the work.

Anyone who went into the intership scheme would be guaranteed a job and be pretty sure the training would be beneficial. As it stands now its just free labour for the companies to massage unemployment figures.

BASHIR

Currently doing an internship and have learned so much in the short few months I've been there, an absolutely great experience for myself when I was looking at the possibility of heading out of the country. All I can recommend is don't do one just for sake of it, find out what you will gain from the opportunity and use it for your gain rather than the companies.

Disko biscuits

I was thinking of getting one in sports direct in the square
Feels like I will never work a proper job

jondoe54

TAKING THE PISS ON INTERNSHIPS

I know this chip shop it's in my town this is taking internship to a whole new low. Cheap labor is what their looking for and it dose not cost the owner a thing just the Tax payer it's about time this government put a stop to this Exploitation and Abuse of the unemployed in Ireland instead of mickey mouse business exploiting young people on the dole for there own gains.
Internships should only be used by companies that have a real vacant position that needs to be filled in the future and they must have at least 10 other people working for them so they can give the the intern the correct training. Put a stop to the Exploitation but it looks good when the government put the figures out on people claiming unemployment benefit have dropped.

tallaghtmick

jondoe54 wrote: »

TAKING THE PISS ON INTERNSHIPS

I know this chip shop it's in my town this is taking internship to a whole new low. Cheap labor is what their looking for and it dose not cost the owner a thing just the Tax payer it's about time this government put a stop to this Exploitation and Abuse of the unemployed in Ireland instead of mickey mouse business exploiting young people on the dole for there own gains.
Internships should only be used by companies that have a real vacant position that needs to be filled in the future and they must have at least 10 other people working for them so they can give the the intern the correct training. Put a stop to the Exploitation but it looks good when the government put the figures out on people claiming unemployment benefit have dropped.

Why the anonymous account? Are you afraid the chipper will refuse you a a batter sausage if you rat them out

mawk

Just to go atheist the grain, the company I am in is just starting its second set of jobbrige interns. 2 interns started this week. The two previous interns were both given paid positions when they finished. One is an assistant accountant and one is a qa tech.

Both had been out of work.

fishy fishy

cheap layour disguised as "gaining experience"

if a company needs an employee then hire one at the going rate - it will get somebody off the dole and into a working environment. Forget this 9 month "experience" and then get out.

Lots of people on the dole now know more than people "hiring" interns. There will be no job creation in ireland if people keeps hiring these "interns" at 50 euro per week over the dole.

Lets start creating real jobs, instead of working for nothing.

Death and Taxes

Phill Ewinn wrote: »

That isn't an intership. The lad offering you that position is breaking the law. If you want to be a party to criminal activity, fine. It may backfire on you.

Come next election we could see people like him prosecuted. Hopefully people will cop on when it's time to vote again.

Not that I agree with these internships but perhaps you would be so good as to explain what law is being broken and what exactly is the nature of this "criminal activity"?

Lenin Skynard

I wouldn't care if there was a job at the end of it unless I was given nine months backpay. At the moment I work a job that I chose, and some days I can barely drag myself out of bed to do it. It's unbelievable that people are able to get out of bed in the morning to go somewhere and clean/make tea for no pay.

jessicaxxx

Internships seem to be a joke in ireland why would you pay someone proper wages when you can pay someone 50 euro a week. I saw an ad for an internship for a dental nurse some of the requirments were that you were not to wear make up at work and be a non smoker and clean sounds more like school than a job!