The Tyres Thread

Paddy@CIRL

Federal SS595 - Okay in the dry, bit loud, terrifying in the wet.
Federal SS595 EVO - Good in the dry, still loud, not quite as terrifying in the wet.
Hankook Ventus Evo - Very good in the dry, quiet but not completely muted, quite good in the wet.
Michelin Primacy HP - Okay in the dry, very loud, shocking in the wet.

uck51js9zml2yt

Cungi wrote: »

Can you provide a link for that please?

Most part worn tyres come from Germany where their laws state tyres must be replaced every year.

sorry don't have a ink. the danger was that tyre walls be damaged and you wouldnt know.

endplate

George Dalton wrote: »

So in other words the worn out Michelins have similar performance levels to the brand new Barums.

That's what I would have expected tbh.

Ah now you are totally misquoting my words. Considering i don't drive around like I am in a WRC race and tyres weren't fully down to the limit. Allow me to explain my point as you don't appear to be brightest spark around here. The transition was unnoticeable. I felt the same level of grip and comfort from when the car was new to when I replaced the tyres with the new set plus I didn't spend loads extra on the Michelin's. But if you are a suckers for certain brands it kinda proves the point a fool and his money are easily parted.

enricoh

my sisters yoke had 205/50 16s on it n i was ringing around and the prices were 85+ new. change to a pair of 205/55 16s, i got good part worns for 30 each n a really common size so plenty of options

Jimdagym

endplate wrote: »

Ah now you are totally misquoting my words. Considering i don't drive around like I am in a WRC race and tyres weren't fully down to the limit. Allow me to explain my point as you don't appear to be brightest spark around here. The transition was unnoticeable. I felt the same level of grip and comfort from when the car was new to when I replaced the tyres with the new set plus I didn't spend loads extra on the Michelin's. But if you are a suckers for certain brands it kinda proves the point a fool and his money are easily parted.

That's a disgraceful post.

Eric Cartman

Nancy Petite Soreness wrote: »

I was reading a report recently that said 50% of second hand tyres tested were dangerous. you have no way of knowing their history.

this report commissioned by the new tyre importers and fitters association of Ireland.

Mint Sauce

Paddy@CIRL wrote: »

Federal SS595 - Okay in the dry, bit loud, terrifying in the wet.
Federal SS595 EVO - Good in the dry, still loud, not quite as terrifying in the wet.
Hankook Ventus Evo - Very good in the dry, quiet but not completely muted, quite good in the wet.
Michelin Primacy HP - Okay in the dry, very loud, shocking in the wet.

Was thinking of getting a pair of these as fronts are on the way out, but not sure I could stretch to winters as well considering the time of year. Wonder how could they are compared to other multi seasons as well.

George Dalton

endplate wrote: »

Ah now you are totally misquoting my words. Considering i don't drive around like I am in a WRC race and tyres weren't fully down to the limit. Allow me to explain my point as you don't appear to be brightest spark around here. The transition was unnoticeable. I felt the same level of grip and comfort from when the car was new to when I replaced the tyres with the new set plus I didn't spend loads extra on the Michelin's. But if you are a suckers for certain brands it kinda proves the point a fool and his money are easily parted.

Well that has certainly told me :pac:

Look, if you are happy with the Barum tyres then good luck to you but don't make sweeping statements that you are not qualified to make. Barum are certainly a massive step up from a lot of the crap budget tyres that are out there. But just because you don't notice any difference between them and the Michelin tyres doesn't mean there isn't a difference. If the Barum performed exactly the same as the Michelin for less money then believe me Opel and other companies would fit them from the factory. Car manufacturers will never fit an expensive part when a cheap part will do the same job.

dredg

George Dalton wrote: »

Car manufacturers will never fit an expensive part when a cheap part will do the same job.

Not taking one side or another in this argument, but I'd change that to:
'Car manufacturers will never fit an expensive part if there isn't money to be made by doing so.'

I'm not saying the part isn't good, but there are usually cash reasons for choosing one premium part over another premium part. I wonder how much brand recognition Michelin will get just for being 'the only tyre BMW recommend on the new M3/M5/M6', and how much they paid to get those words in print.

George Dalton

dredg wrote: »

Not taking one side or another in this argument, but I'd change that to:
'Car manufacturers will never fit an expensive part if there isn't money to be made by doing so.'

I'm not saying the part isn't good, but there are usually cash reasons for choosing one premium part over another premium part. I wonder how much brand recognition Michelin will get just for being 'the only tyre BMW recommend on the new M3/M5/M6', and how much they paid to get those words in print.

You do have a point but I'm not sure if it applies here. When it comes to a high performance car there is usually a single tyre that they are developed with and that is the only one that is recommended. In this case the tyre company will be involved with the manufacturer while the car is still in development. The car is so finely tuned that the desired handling characteristics can only be guaranteed when the specified tyre is fitted. In a sense it doesn't really matter which premium tyre company is chosen by the car company as they will all have the necessary expertise to deliver what is needed. However it will always be a leading company that supplies the tyre, and that is significant.

Now, when it comes to run of the mill cars such as in this case an Opel Insignia then I don't think there will be much incentive for Michelin to pay Opel for the right to say they supply the tyres for that model car. Also, the fact that this is not a high performance car means that any top quality tyre can be used in production. Therefore all Insignias won't all have the same tyre fitted from the factory, they will come with various different tyres on different models and this may change over the production run of the car. The tyre that comes on any given Insignia probably comes down to whatever tyre company was giving Opel the best deal at any given time. The one thing that the tyres will have in common is that they will all be a premium brand tyre rather than a budget tyre.

The fact is that if Opel's engineers and test drivers were happy to recommend a Barum tyre instead of a Goodyear, a Continental or a Michelin then that is what the car would be leaving the factory on as that would save Opel a hell of a lot of money. The fact that they don't is surely worth more than one average drivers observation that they don't see any difference between the two tyres.

dredg

George Dalton wrote: »

You do have a point but I'm not sure if it applies here. When it comes to a high performance car there is usually a single tyre that they are developed with and that is the only one that is recommended. In this case the tyre company will be involved with the manufacturer while the car is still in development. The car is so finely tuned that the desired handling characteristics can only be guaranteed when the specified tyre is fitted. In a sense it doesn't really matter which premium tyre company is chosen by the car company as they will all have the necessary expertise to deliver what is needed. However it will always be a leading company that supplies the tyre, and that is significant.

Now, when it comes to run of the mill cars such as in this case an Opel Insignia then I don't think there will be much incentive for Michelin to pay Opel for the right to say they supply the tyres for that model car. Also, the fact that this is not a high performance car means that any top quality tyre can be used in production. Therefore all Insignias won't all have the same tyre fitted from the factory, they will come with various different tyres on different models and this may change over the production run of the car. The tyre that comes on any given Insignia probably comes down to whatever tyre company was giving Opel the best deal at any given time. The one thing that the tyres will have in common is that they will all be a premium brand tyre rather than a budget tyre.

The fact is that if Opel's engineers and test drivers were happy to recommend a Barum tyre instead of a Goodyear, a Continental or a Michelin then that is what the car would be leaving the factory on as that would save Opel a hell of a lot of money. The fact that they don't is surely worth more than one average drivers observation that they don't see any difference between the two tyres.

I would disagree. Everyday run of the mill cars shift more units than M cars. More units = more sales = more incentive to get your brand associated with that make. I suspect every new model released by Opel (and damn near everyone else) comes with a 'Opel recommend Blah tyres for your <model>'.
Anyway, I could be completely wrong and this is getting very off-topic

George Dalton

dredg wrote: »

I would disagree. Everyday run of the mill cars shift more units than M cars. More units = more sales = more incentive to get your brand associated with that make. I suspect every new model released by Opel (and damn near everyone else) comes with a 'Opel recommend Blah tyres for your <model>'.

They do shift way more units but across a generally less discerning group of people. I suspect that maybe in a country like Germany where people view these things differently much more owners will stick to the tyre that the car originally came on but here in Ireland very few people will. So I accept your point that maybe there is some incentive for a given tyre company to be associated with a particular car. However if Barum's tyre is up to scratch then there is nothing stopping them throwing their hat into the ring is there?

I suppose the central point I am trying to make is that people shouldn't state definitively that there is no difference between certain tyres just because they can't tell the difference themselves. I most likely couldn't tell you the difference between a €10 bottle of wine and a €30 bottle. To me they do the same job but I am willing to accept that for some people the difference is significant and worth paying the extra for. I certainly wouldn't argue that such people were "fools" or being "easily parted" from their money or use similar insulting remarks.

dredg

George Dalton wrote: »

They do shift way more units but across a generally less discerning group of people. I suspect that maybe in a country like Germany where people view these things differently much more owners will stick to the tyre that the car originally came on but here in Ireland very few people will. So I accept your point that maybe there is some incentive for a given tyre company to be associated with a particular car. However if Barum's tyre is up to scratch then there is nothing stopping them throwing their hat into the ring is there?

You're right, there is nothing stopping the likes of Barum ponying up the cash to be associated with a particular car. I don't disagree with your point though - I think that quality plays a huge part in these recommendations. There's no way Opel (or anyone else) want to be known as the guys who put rubbish tyres on their cars, which is why you'll likely always see a new car with Bridgestone, Dunlop, Michelin etc. I just think that getting a formal recommendation as tyre brand of choice for X involves money.

George Dalton wrote: »

I suppose the central point I am trying to make is that people shouldn't state definitively that there is no difference between certain tyres just because they can't tell the difference themselves. I most likely couldn't tell you the difference between a €10 bottle of wine and a €30 bottle. To me they do the same job but I am willing to accept that for some people the difference is significant and worth paying the extra for. I certainly wouldn't argue that such people were "fools" or being "easily parted" from their money or use similar insulting remarks.

I'm most definitely not arguing with you on that. I'm happy to pay a premium for good tyres. It's a lot cheaper to buy tyres than to figure out how to put all the blood back in a body.
I'm not disagreeing with you on tyre quality, just pointing out that a car manufacturer's motivation for sticking a particular brand on a car first day might involve more than just the tyres.

I wonder how many people go back (or went back, economic climate omg omg) to dealers for new tyres and what they fit.

Ded_Zebra

endplate wrote: »

Ah now you are totally misquoting my words. Considering i don't drive around like I am in a WRC race and tyres weren't fully down to the limit. Allow me to explain my point as you don't appear to be brightest spark around here. The transition was unnoticeable. I felt the same level of grip and comfort from when the car was new to when I replaced the tyres with the new set plus I didn't spend loads extra on the Michelin's. But if you are a suckers for certain brands it kinda proves the point a fool and his money are easily parted.

You might not notice the difference in the tyres but the child that steps out in front of you on a wet day certainly will.

Also from my experience on here George is plenty smart and has what I would consider a massive knowledge of tyres and car in general.

RootX

Hi, I'm driving a Grande Punto T-Jet and thinking of changing from the summer Dunlop tyres to the all season Vredestein ones. Recently moved to Wicklow town and driving to/from south Dublin on a daily basis.
What do you guys reckon? from reviews I've read they're considered pretty good tyres but since they're not cheap(130 each) I'd like to get a few opinions before I order.

many thanks.

faigs

enricoh wrote: »

my sisters yoke had 205/50 16s on it n i was ringing around and the prices were 85+ new. change to a pair of 205/55 16s, i got good part worns for 30 each n a really common size so plenty of options

Would I not have to change my wheels? I never thought I could just change to the more common profile size, 55mm. Would save a lot of hassle!

gollywog

RootX wrote: »

Hi, I'm driving a Grande Punto T-Jet and thinking of changing from the summer Dunlop tyres to the all season Vredestein ones. Recently moved to Wicklow town and driving to/from south Dublin on a daily basis.
What do you guys reckon? from reviews I've read they're considered pretty good tyres but since they're not cheap(130 each) I'd like to get a few opinions before I order.

many thanks.

Vredestein ultrac sessantas are a great tyre

Cuddlesworth

Why are you having a argument about why premium tires are on brand new cars? They are on the cars because they are absolutely dirt cheap for Opel to buy, the same for all large scale car manufacturers.

If Opel sells 1.2 million cars in Europe and buys 4.8 million tires directly from Michelin they are paying a fraction of what you are for those tires. The reason they don't buy the tires from the smaller boys, is because they can't compete on quantity and price with the larger players. On the day they can they will be considered and will no longer be a small player. Tyre quality is a secondary argument and would be a small portion of the reason for a particular manufacturer, as would brand image of the tire make.

Premium cars would be addressed by the various premium tires within the product range of the supplier.

kilianmanning

Well lads,

Need two new tyres for my car. 205/50/16.
After hittin a ****in crater earlier:(.Going to price new and partworn tomorrow. I want something with good grip and not so soft sidewalls so they need to be able to take a bit of abuse. any suggestions?

kaimera

Had the potenza re050 on the legacy. New they are great I found but when they start to go it's atrocious in the wet.

Q - any recommendations for a decent tyre 175/65/R14 for a 1.4 fiesta diesel?

Ded_Zebra

kaimera wrote: »

Had the potenza re050 on the legacy. New they are great I found but when they start to go it's atrocious in the wet.

Q - any recommendations for a decent tyre 175/65/R14 for a 1.4 fiesta diesel?

Uniroyal rain expert for the fiesta would be perfect. I got a quote for them in that size recently of €75 a corner fitted.

Matt Simis

faigs wrote: »

Would I not have to change my wheels? I never thought I could just change to the more common profile size, 55mm. Would save a lot of hassle!

You need to (should do) keep the overall diameter the same (well within 2 to 3% usually, pending car, AWD system* etc) to fit wheel arches, not confuse traction control systems and not screw up speedo, odometer etc. The "wheel" doesnt know or care what profile tyre is on it. It does care on the width and the profile is a percent of the width, so there is some indirect correlation.


205-50-16
Diameter: 611mm

205-55-16
Diameter: 631mm
Difference to speedo: 3.35%


I would not recommend changing to 205-55, anyone that did that didnt do their homework. You could switch to 195 width tyres however:

195-55-16
Diameter: 620mm
Difference to speedo: 1.55% faster (ie acceptable).


* On AWD systems the difference in diameter needs to be under 1% in order not to totally ruin the differentials, it would constantly try to correct "slip" otherwise.

Supergurrier

Eiretyres looking for 146 quid a corner for 225/40/R18 Goodyear f1 Assy 2's now, looks like im importing

positron

positron wrote: »

Quick Update:

I have the new pair of Gooyear Eagle F1 Asymmetric 2s fitted to the front, and the two Bridgestone Potenzas moved to the rear. After driving both town, back roads and motorways, I am really happy with the new F1s. They are definitely quieter than the Potenzas - I can tell the noise is now coming from the rear axle. I haven't noticed any grip issues (but I don't drive that hard), and steering feels slightly heavier and planted / sure-footed. This is good because Accord's steering is usually is too light.

PS: I know new tyres should ideally go to the real axle, but I had a feeling that the F1s would be quieter and wanted that over the noisy Potenzas.

Apologies for digging up an old thread, but I am in a bit of pickle. I am just after noticing the rear tyres that I fitted as per the above post in Jan 2012 now looks like this.

Rear left:



Rear right:


I am gutted to say the least. The worst thing about this is that the car has only done less than 10k miles during this period. Can I save this by swapping them around, or is that rear right too far gone? Also what could cause something like over few thousand miles - could this be a sign of some other underlying issue with the car?

positron

Thanks OSI.

Correction: (Embarassed to admit it, but I was wrecked from many sleepless nights) The rear tyres are old Potenza, not the Gooyear Eagle F1 Asymmetric 2s I got put on Jan '12. They went on the front axle and the 5+ year old Potenza's were switched to the rear axle, which is what is worn uneven in the above picture. There's certainly something up with the wheel alignment / balancing / shocks as OSI pointed out, but at least it's not the brand new tyres I had put just 10k before. Phew.

R.O.R

I'd get a pro to look at the tyres to see if they are legal or not. Had similar on my Accord - new tyres were put on but not balanced properly. Front's wore down on the outside (probably not as bad as your pic) and were transferred to the rear at the next service (another 20k).

Passed the NCT twice with the outside of the tyre worn a lot further than the middle.

creedp

R.O.R wrote: »

I'd get a pro to look at the tyres to see if they are legal or not. Had similar on my Accord - new tyres were put on but not balanced properly. Front's wore down on the outside (probably not as bad as your pic) and were transferred to the rear at the next service (another 20k).

Passed the NCT twice with the outside of the tyre worn a lot further than the middle.

Same with me. Inner rim of fronts were worn down badly with plenty of thread acroos 80% of tyre. Swopped to rear and tracked front. While on rear they passed the NCT even though they were every bit as bad as tyres in the picture. They are now almost down to the wear indicator all the way across.

On the other hand, my father-in-law had a similar problem woth rear tyres on a Passat. He went to tyre fitter who insisted tyres were illegal and put on new tyres.