I'll have a BQ please Bob

The_Boy_Wonder

Sun 26.2 miles - 3.59.36 (pace 9.09, HR 141)
I had the pleasure of pacing the NYC marathon in the park. I had neilc for company as a pacer. I knew the course was flat and depending on wind would be a good PB track. The course involved 6 loops and and an up and back section on Chetserfield. I thought this might be mentally tough and boring if nothing else, but it turned out it meant we past the cheering supporters about 20 times which gave a nice lift. I'm not sure if the sight of the finish line so often was offputting for the pacees.
we had a nice 15/20 person group up to about half way. We were 30/40 seconds up at half way. One or two drifted ahead and a few more fell off at and by about mile 16/17 we were left with 6/7 and that group pretty much stayed together til about mile 22. I found things getting tougher at 16/17 miles myself as I had only taken one gel, so after that I was eating mars bars, chocolates and as much jellies as I could get my hands on from supporters and voluneteers!! It was like a kids halloween party with all the junk!! After a mile or so of enduring that slump I was right as rain and got back chatting to the group around us. With about 4 miles to go those feeling strong pushed on, and unfortunately one of the guys who had been with us from the start slipped back so for the next two miles it was just myself and Neil and one pacee who stayed with us right until the last mile when we encouraged him to go. In the last two miles we picked up another 3 who had been going backwards. We had a little time to spare so eased off below the 9.09 pace and got talking to them (without response and a few looks as if to say bog off and leave me alone!!). Gradually picked it back up to 9.09 pace and they stayed with us, and they managed to pick things back up and finished strong down the home stretch in front of us.
Really enjoyable day of running with my fellow pacer and the pacees we had with us at different stages. All very positive, no negative comments about going too fast or too slow, everything perfect from an organisation point of view and surprisingly good support.
Fair play again to the team behind DCM for putting this event together

neilc

Great pacing with you yesterday. Think it's time to be changing that number in your title to a 3

The_Boy_Wonder

Mon - Wed: Nada

Thurs: 10.2 miles @ 7.28 (HR 160) If my HR is anything to go by, I've gone backwards over the last 6 weeks or so (DCM excepted). Two weeks before DCM this pace would have had a HR 12/15 beats lower.

Fri: nothing again

Sat: 10.7 miles @ 7.42 (HR 157) - With Jingle Bells next weekend I needed to do some intervals as I hadn't done any since before DCM. The plan was do 8 x 400m. So I did approx 3.7 miles warmup @ 7.53, and then did the 8 x 400, with 1m 20s recoveries. the intervals were 89, 93, 91, 91, 91, 90, 89, 89. HR was averaging high 170s through the intervals. Then I had the same 3.7 miles back home, which got slower the further I went but averaged 8.09.
Happy enough with this one. I'll do something similar during the week, and maybe one with longer intervals (maybe 4 x 1200) too and then give things a right bash next Saturday.

Marthastew

Great log title:)

I'm sure you'll get that BQ from Bob, best of luck

The_Boy_Wonder

Tue: 9 miles @ 7.46 (HR 153) Started off this run at a decent pace, but achiles got a bit uncomfortable as I went on so I slowed as I went
Wed: 9 miles @ 8.30 (HR 142) I had planned to jog back into work in the AM, but achiles was very stiff so got back into bed for another hour. Ran home again instead. Plenty of heel drops and stretches during the day, and decided to venture out. Kept the pace a bit more comfortable
Thurs: 9 miles @ 8.31 (No HR) Up before the birds and kept pace easy again as underfoot was a bit frosty. One slide apart it wasn't too bad. Had nearly come a cropper on Wed thanks to walkers making no effort to move over resulting in me slipping on leaves/mud on a grass verge, not sure how I stayed upright! think it must have been experience with drunken stumblings!

Sat: Jingle Bells 5k in 19.11
Prior to this my PB was 20.06 from back in July. My most recent half marathon and full were predicting something around 19.30, so I was hoping to (1) make sure of a sub 20 and (2) get as much under as I could.
Parked the car near Castleknock gate and used the jog down to start on Furze Rd as warm up along with a few strides (approx 2 miles in total). Lined up in the sub 20 section (there was also one for sub 16 :eek:. Bumped into Meno and once I had moved back a bit I saw CL and Digger up ahead too. Anyhoo I never rem a huge amount about races, but what I do is as follows:
- Passed two people dressed as elfs after about 100 yards... :rolleyes:
- Not paying attention half way through mile 1, and let the pace slip
- Not sure when I went passed the glamour couple, but CL overtook me as we turned off Chesterfield. I rallied a little after and I spent the rest of the race expecting her to come past again
- At 3k marker I had about 30 seconds in the bank on 20 mins
- The downhill after that definitely helped cos my breathing/HR weren't as nuts as they have been in 5ks, but my legs were at the limit
- Hadn't a rashers where the finish line was once we turned on to the pedestrian area below the hospital, my suffice to say it was further along than I had hoped.

Don't think I had anything left at the finish. Splits were 6.18, 6.18, 6.07 (downhill) and the 0.1 was 5.47. HR averaged 174, and peaked at 183 at the finish.

Was delighted with the time. Didn't head down to the club house as car was in the opposite direction. Tried to jog back to the car, but the achiles was tightening so managed a v slow mile and then walked the rest. Covered about 6 miles all in all. Achiles isn't too clever since, so I'll have to wait and see as to whether I go at the Aware 10k next weekend.


33 miles for the week

menoscemo

The_Boy_Wonder wrote: »

Don't think I had anything left at the finish. Splits were 6.18, 6.18, 6.07 (downhill) and the 0.1 was 5.47. HR averaged 174, and peaked at 183 at the finish.

Good running TBW.
You (and CL) obviously werent too far behind me for the first 3k, I was half expecting you to come by me a few times!!
My Splits were 6:12, 6:13, 5:51 (5:38 for last bit)
Doing aware myself next week. We should both be good for sub 40...

BTW I have learned it is actually possible to hold 97 % max HR for an entire 5 or 10k. Is 183 your highest recorded max?

RacoonQueen

Everytime I see your thread title pop up I think you're saying you want me and I'm like :pac: :cool:

Then I read it again and I'm like

Well done today, hope the achilles eases out.

The_Boy_Wonder

menoscemo wrote: »

Good running TBW.
You (and CL) obviously werent too far behind me for the first 3k, I was half expecting you to come by me a few times!!
My Splits were 6:12, 6:13, 5:51 (5:38 for last bit)
Doing aware myself next week. We should both be good for sub 40...

BTW I have learned it is actually possible to hold 97 % max HR for an entire 5 or 10k. Is 183 your highest recorded max?

You had a great run. I could see you (or another Tallaght vest) up ahead at one point around half way, but while I could see you it was the kind of distance I was never gonna close the gap. Sounds like you ran it smart by finishing v strong. Impressive stuff considering your trials and tribulations over the last while.

Last year's half marathon down in Waterford I averaged 175 and peaked at over 190. Crazy stuff and to be honest I probably wasn't far off a heart attack as the HR was over 180 for 5 miles. The highest I've seen in 5/10k's since is 184, so I got close to that today

The_Boy_Wonder

RacoonQueen wrote: »

Everytime I see your thread title pop up I think you're saying you want me and I'm like :pac: :cool:

Then I read it again and I'm like

Well done today, hope the achilles eases out.

I'm trying to set goals I can actually acheive!!;)

menoscemo

The_Boy_Wonder wrote: »

Last year's half marathon down in Waterford I averaged 175 and peaked at over 190.

Sounds like you still have a lot to come off your 5k time in that case (either that or you have a dodgy HRM )

Yeah there were 3 Tallaght singlets vying for position in our group, we were flip-flopping positions a lot throughout the race. I may have beat the glamour couple but I was pipped by my main Tallaght AC rival :mad:

The_Boy_Wonder

Quick update... Achiles hasn't been great but a couple of visits to physio has helped things along. Back doing serious amount of heel drops. Dusted down the bike as I knew I couldn't run on it. I did a mile on a threadmill on the Thurs after the 5k, and it felt ok. Tried another mile on the Fri and it wasn't ok:rolleyes: Anyway, lots of self therapy meant it was feeling better, and managed a three mile run on the Sunday @ 9.00 mile pace. Even though I'd missed only a week I was really happy to be out and happier that the achiles felt fine.

So the 18 week plan for Hamburg started then on Mon 10th. I knew I wasn't going to be able to do any quick stuff. So I managed two nine mile runs @ 8.40ish pace, and then on Sat quickened it up for 5 miles at closer to 8 miles. I'd intended doing the LSR on Sunday but didn't manage to find time. Sorry I didn't go further on Sat at a slower speed. While I'm short on miles for the week, I'm happy enough the achiles wasn't in trouble during or after these runs. It's not 100% but if I could get back to the mileage in the plan I'd be happy even if I don't do the speed work prescribed.

The_Boy_Wonder

Mon: 9 miles @ 8.26 (HR 147)
Thurs: 9 miles @ 8.31 (HR 145)
Sat: 5 miles @ 8.47 No HR but it wouldn't have been clever as I was sweating pure Heineken!
Sun: 12 miles @ 8.33 (HR 137) Longest run since NY/Dub marathon.

The achiles is ok-ish. not passing any pinch tests and tightens up after runs, but with plenty of heel drops it is making progress. I'm going to keep the pace down until the post run tightening is gone. Hopefully it won't take too long but that said I'd be more than happy if Santa brought me two new one's!!


Hope you all have great Christmas... eat, drink and be merry

The_Boy_Wonder

Tue: 9 miles @ 8.13 (HR 151). Christmas morning. No early risers down at home, so got up, few stretches and off out. Roads were quiet apart from a few shiny new bikes being tested! Got home and there was a fry waiting for me. Ate it before showering.... such an athlete! I'm sure Gebresalassie had the odd post run rasher and fried egg!

Had forgotten to bring diclac/voltarol down home, so when the achiles tightened I was v uncomfortable.

Wed: Back to Dub, some magic diclac and felt up to 5 miles @ 8.43

Thurs: Short straw on the Christmas roster so back in work and did the 9 miles home @ 8.42 and 140 HR.

After the week it really dawned on me the achiles is not improving at any rapid rate while I'm running. Using voltarol is only covering up the problem. So decided to take enough time off as it takes to get it strong enough and build from there. A 12 week plan for Hambrug would mean needing to be able to do a 30 mile week by the end of Jan, so hopefully that'll be possible, but if not Hamburg can could be a training run for something a little later maybe Cork, Kildare or Portumna. I'll just play it be ear for the moment.
Once I had made the sensible decision I looked back at my Garmin records and noticed I took two weeks off with no running back in April/May when it flared up last time, and that seemed to do the trick.

So despite feeling like I wanted to go out and run every day since last Thursday and the achiles feeling better I've been disciplined.
Longest non-running streak since May!

So 2012 finished on a flat note but all in all with just shy of 1900 miles and plenty of PB's it was a good one running wise so I shouldn't complain

menoscemo

The_Boy_Wonder wrote: »

After the week it really dawned on me the achiles is not improving at any rapid rate while I'm running. Using voltarol is only covering up the problem. So decided to take enough time off as it takes to get it strong enough and build from there. A 12 week plan for Hambrug would mean needing to be able to do a 30 mile week by the end of Jan, so hopefully that'll be possible, but if not Hamburg can could be a training run for something a little later maybe Cork, Kildare or Portumna. I'll just play it be ear for the moment.
Once I had made the sensible decision I looked back at my Garmin records and noticed I took two weeks off with no running back in April/May when it flared up last time, and that seemed to do the trick.

Hmmm, I am getting some subliminal messages here :rolleyes:

The_Boy_Wonder

menoscemo wrote: »

Hmmm, I am getting some subliminal messages here :rolleyes:

Your problem seems a bit more complex I think.
Physio tells me I have to rest but I choose not to listen, cos I know better. Everything I read on achiles injury says rest first, and a lot longer than I'd like.

Your injury is different. I couldn't do 50 miles a week. Not knowing what's wrong with it can't be easy. Don't envy you.
Achiles is a small injury zone, and my problem is caused by too much miles or too much speed, too soon mixed with pronation. It's easily fixed but cos it's a tendon, it's a slow healer. Really must work harder on the routines to prevent the injury repeating.

All that said committing to rest ain't easy. So wanted to go for a run today, but it'll be gym and cycling until it feels right to run on.

The_Boy_Wonder

Injury and Frustration Update

So nearly three week of no running. Some days feeling like I'm making progress and others feeling like I'm not. I was cycling in and out to work watching nothing but people out running. I'm sure it's something like a smoker quitting. All you see is people smoking... I know it's early January so there are plenty of new year's resolutions in action, but all I seemed to see was people running!

So last Sat I went out for 3 miles, nice and slow. Didn't feel wonderful, but I woke up on Sunday and the achiles hadn't felt as good in months. One step forward.
Four miles a little quicker on Monday, and then woke up on Tuesday with an achiles as stiff as it had been a few weeks ago. Two steps back.

So I went back to the physio today. Tightness in soleus in calf which is putting too much pressure on achiles. Her verdict was six weeks of no running. I'm not sure if it was my facial reaction, or my high pitched "SIX WEEKS", that she revised that and said maybe four, but definitely four and we'll see how we go. As I'm already wearing orthotics, the treatment proposed is repeat visits with the full monty of ultrasound, laser and massaging the calf and achilles, and all the while with daily stretching and ice/heat therapy as often as possible.
Spent an hour wandering around after that in a bit if a daze. Wasn't what I was expecting/hoping to hear.

So that means I won't be running again til mid/late Feb, and then with building up again after that. Basically means a Spring marathon is out.
Other than still hoping to do Chicago in October, I'm not making any plans. I'll do the rehab, plenty of cycling to avoid putting on too much timber and might get the gym to put together a programme that doesn't involve using the calf/achilles.

Hey ho it could be worse. It's a setback but only a few weeks hopefully and then I can get back on track and work on taking down a few PB's later in the year

neilc

Best of luck with the recovery!!

belcarra

The_Boy_Wonder wrote: »

As I'm already wearing orthotics, the treatment proposed is repeat visits with the full monty of ultrasound, laser and massaging the calf and achilles, and all the while with daily stretching and ice/heat therapy as often as possible.

Have ya tried throwing the kitchen sink at it??

Best of luck with it anyways (cos that sound's like what your physio is hoping for too!).

Marthastew

Very, very best of luck over the next 4 weeks. It will be very hard but try to stay positive as much as you can. 4 weeks sounds like a VERY long time (and it is in the world of running) but it'll be over before you know it. You'll be back stronger than ever:)

chinguetti

Did my soleus last April. Took 4 weeks off and did the strength work but was allowed run on grass at a slow pace 3 times a week for 20 minutes. Got back for June but still a problem if i don't do the stretches even today. If you're told 4 or 6 weeks, you'll have to stick by it or you'll have a recurring problem.

Hope it goes well and i might see you on the NCR again when i'm out and about.

pistol_75

The_Boy_Wonder wrote: »

So I went back to the physio today. Tightness in soleus in calf which is putting too much pressure on achiles. Her verdict was six weeks of no running. I'm not sure if it was my facial reaction, or my high pitched "SIX WEEKS", that she revised that and said maybe four, but definitely four and we'll see how we go. As I'm already wearing orthotics, the treatment proposed is repeat visits with the full monty of ultrasound, laser and massaging the calf and achilles, and all the while with daily stretching and ice/heat therapy as often as possible.
Spent an hour wandering around after that in a bit if a daze. Wasn't what I was expecting/hoping to hear.

TBW reading your post has kinda scared me. Is there any damage to the calf or is it just tightness. I have been having same symptoms as you and went to physio on Tue night. Like you she found soleus was tight and worked on getting the knots out of it. She gave me exercises/stretches to do after running specific to the soleus and also recommended the ice/heat after running.

She did not tell me to stop running though other than to do no speed work or long run for the next week or so and to stop if I felt any sharp pain. I ran 3 miles last night and it felt a bit tender still but she told me it would be after the treatment on Tue night.

I would be wary of the amount of treatment possibly being recommended by your physio if it is just a tight muscle and normally this is released in a single massage. I guess if there damage to the muscle though it is a different story.

Good luck with the recovery either way.

The_Boy_Wonder

belcarra wrote: »

Have ya tried throwing the kitchen sink at it??

Best of luck with it anyways (cos that sound's like what your physio is hoping for too!).

Cheers. To be fair I don't think she was hiding behind throwing the kitchen sink. Tendon is a slow healer due to poor blood flow, so I guess she's recommending the lot!

The_Boy_Wonder

pistol_75 wrote: »

TBW reading your post has kinda scared me. Is there any damage to the calf or is it just tightness. I have been having same symptoms as you and went to physio on Tue night. Like you she found soleus was tight and worked on getting the knots out of it. She gave me exercises/stretches to do after running specific to the soleus and also recommended the ice/heat after running.

She did not tell me to stop running though other than to do no speed work or long run for the next week or so and to stop if I felt any sharp pain. I ran 3 miles last night and it felt a bit tender still but she told me it would be after the treatment on Tue night.

I would be wary of the amount of treatment possibly being recommended by your physio if it is just a tight muscle and normally this is released in a single massage. I guess if there damage to the muscle though it is a different story.

Good luck with the recovery either way.

Cheers.
I don't think you should worry too much. I think the reason she has recommended rest is to give my achiles the best chance and time to heal.
I don't really feel the problem in the calf (vast majority of the time). The tightness of the soleus is what's causing the aggravation of the achilles.
So as I understand it, most of the work is to repair the achiles (all the physio today was on the achiles, rather than the calf) and the stretching I'll be doing daily is to loosen the tightness in the calf.

I'd follow what your own physio is recommending. She knows your own problem best.

The_Boy_Wonder

chinguetti wrote: »

Did my soleus last April. Took 4 weeks off and did the strength work but was allowed run on grass at a slow pace 3 times a week for 20 minutes. Got back for June but still a problem if i don't do the stretches even today. If you're told 4 or 6 weeks, you'll have to stick by it or you'll have a recurring problem.

Hope it goes well and i might see you on the NCR again when i'm out and about.

Cheers. I'm going to take the punishment, do what I'm told and hopefully that'll see me right

The_Boy_Wonder

Marthastew wrote: »

Very, very best of luck over the next 4 weeks. It will be very hard but try to stay positive as much as you can. 4 weeks sounds like a VERY long time (and it is in the world of running) but it'll be over before you know it. You'll be back stronger than ever:)

Cheers.
I must re-read your log from your injury time. From recollection you dealt with it superbly. Might be a few tips in there for the mental side of it!
And your log also shows there's plenty I can do outside of running to keep me active!

jcsmum

Aw, am really sorry to read this S. And there's me moaning about xc. Hope the few weeks recovery will go well and that you'll pick up exactly where you left off....in PB form.

The_Boy_Wonder

jcsmum wrote: »

Aw, am really sorry to read this S. And there's me moaning about xc. Hope the few weeks recovery will go well and that you'll pick up exactly where you left off....in PB form.

Cheers... even if fit you wouldn't see me at cross country!

The_Boy_Wonder

5 weeks later... no running other than the odd dash for a train! Progress has been mostly slow, but a good improvement this week. Physio talking about another 3 weeks, before starting back to build things up again.

Struggled with the not running for about a week, as I don't enjoy the cycling as much, but I'm still out getting fresh air so it's not so bad. A little jealous reading race reports etc, but thankfully it's quiet season in terms of racing so I don't feel like I'm missing too much. Thankfully weight has stayed steady thanks to spinning classes and cycling to work most days.

Managed to sign up to Chicago marathon in October, so once I do get back, all focus will be geared towards that.

The_Boy_Wonder

A few weeks off injured and my half marathon PB gets taken down by quite a few..... :rolleyes: :D Good running out there. I've quite a bit of catching up to do


Got the nod to introduce a bit of running again, but not as I'd like or expected it
50m running, heel kicks, running backwards, 50m running, heel kicks, backwards running and repeat etc etc etc And I thought the stretching was boring!

DigiJem

Small steps TBW, keep at it!