Martinez Macklin March 17 MSG

RiseToTheTop · 19-03-2012 2:43pm

How do you think a 205lb Holyfield was able to have a go at a 236lb Riddick Bowe?

walshb · 19-03-2012 2:45pm

RiseToTheTop wrote: »

How do you think a 205lb Holyfield was able to have a go at a 236lb Riddick Bowe?

Not sure what these two have to do with it. Sure, Floyd will have a go, never said he wouldn't. I just do not see him and his style faring all that well against Sergio and his style, for reasons given. I'd be fairly confident of Sergio winning a clear points win. Not battering Floyd, but winning the rds cleanly enough.

BWT, Bowe clearly beat Holyfield when they met in fight 1. Almost knocked him out.

runboyrun · 19-03-2012 2:56pm

if floyd fought martinez at 152lbs or below i would see floyd winning convincingly.......martinez doesn't bully opponents.....he uses his speed and timing and good foot work....he also throws shots from awkward angles

floyd has better speed, timing and footwork....i'd see floyd pot shotting him all night long with straight rights and winning a wide points defeat..

martinez would be forced to try and bully floyd and this is not his game ....he'd appear clumsy and floyd would shoulder roll and pick him off

dibella offered floyd 80% to fight martinez......i think he might take this after cotto

walshb · 19-03-2012 3:02pm

runboyrun wrote: »

floyd has better speed, timing and footwork....i'd see floyd pot shotting him all night long with straight rights and winning a wide points defeat..

Poor Floyd, after all that pot shotting and success, he wins a defeat

walshb · 19-03-2012 3:02pm

Yes, and Sergio is such a dumb fighter, that pot shotting with single shots and lead rights beats him all night!

If Floyd made this a 150 weight fight, then Sergio doesn't fight. I cannot see Sergio healthily getting to that weight and then being effective come fight night.

Simple: Floyd won't fight Manny at 147, no way he agrees to even consider Martinez at 154 lbs.

runboyrun · 19-03-2012 3:07pm

walshb wrote: »

Poor Floyd, after all that pot shotting and success, he wins a defeat

I'm so happy that my misuse of words gave your day a little fulfillment

RiseToTheTop · 19-03-2012 3:08pm

walshb wrote: »

Not sure what these two have to do with it. Sure, Floyd will have a go, never said he wouldn't. I just do not see him and his style faring all that well against Sergio and his style, for reasons given. I'd be fairly confident of Sergio winning a clear points win. Not battering Floyd, but winning the rds cleanly enough.

BWT, Bowe clearly beat Holyfield when they met in fight 1. Almost knocked him out.

What I was saying there was 30lbs difference, yet it was still a fight. Holyfield hurt Bowe at times.

How a 5 lbs difference in the welter/middle weight division is a lot?

runboyrun · 19-03-2012 3:08pm

walshb wrote: »

Simple: Floyd won't fight Manny at 147, no way he agrees to even consider Martinez at 154 lbs.

so you attributing all the blame to floyd for the reason the pacman fight won't happen?

i mentioned 152lbs, not 154lbs

walshb · 19-03-2012 3:10pm

runboyrun wrote: »

so you attributing all the blame to floyd for the reason the pacman fight won't happen?

i mentioned 152lbs, not 154lbs

This is not a Pacman thread. Go over there and I may consider a conversation.

runboyrun · 19-03-2012 3:13pm

walshb wrote: »

Simple: Floyd won't fight Manny at 147, no way he agrees to even consider Martinez at 154 lbs.

walshb wrote: »

This is not a Pacman thread. Go over there and I may consider a conversation.

It's fairly evident it was you who started going on about pacman.....

walshb · 19-03-2012 3:14pm

RiseToTheTop wrote: »

What I was saying there was 30lbs difference, yet it was still a fight. Holyfield hurt Bowe at times.

How a 5 lbs difference in the welter/middle weight division is a lot?

I know what you are saying. I just feel that at 154, which is the only viable weight for Sergio, considering how ripped and lean he looked at 157.5, Floyd is meeting a man that is bigger, as slick, as fast for that weight, and all around good enough to use these traits ALONG with the natural size difference.

Two to three inches in height, and come fight night I would expect Sergio to be 162/163? Floyd probably could not get to that and be fighting fit. Floyd would have to be still low enough to be effective.

No way Floy agrees to meet Sergio at 154. This fight is not at all a possibility at that weight in my opinion.

walshb · 19-03-2012 3:14pm

runboyrun wrote: »

It's fairly evident it was you who started going on about pacman.....

Post it over there and we'll see how it goes.

walshb · 19-03-2012 3:15pm

runboyrun wrote: »

I'm so happy that my misuse of words gave your day a little fulfillment

You're welcome!

RiseToTheTop · 19-03-2012 3:16pm

I agree Floyd will never fight Martinez at 154. Mayweather-Martinez would be almost as big as him and Pacquiao IMO. Definitely the closest thing.

walshb · 19-03-2012 3:18pm

RiseToTheTop wrote: »

What I was saying there was 30lbs difference, yet it was still a fight. Holyfield hurt Bowe at times.

How a 5 lbs difference in the welter/middle weight division is a lot?

And, this also is more than just the weight and height and natural size advantage. Sergio also has great feet and great speed too, and a very good tactical brain.

Alvarez, for example, has size advantage over Floyd too, but he doesn't have the speed and quick feet that Sergio has, so Floyd here could be a lot more competitive.

runboyrun · 19-03-2012 3:18pm

walshb wrote: »

I know what you are saying. I just feel that at 154, which is the only viable weight for Sergio, considering how ripperd and lean he looked at 157.5,

martinez has already offered the fight to floyd at 150lbs and an 80/20 split in floyds favour so obviously 150 is a viable weight for him if he's offering it

floyd is a bigger man now, he handles de la hoya in his first fight at LMW.....he's bigger now and is probably a natural 154lber at this stage.....

i think this fight is a definite possibility at 150 - 152lbs

walshb · 19-03-2012 3:19pm

Ok, if it's been offered at 150 lbs, then we'll have to wait and see, won't we?

runboyrun · 19-03-2012 3:21pm

walshb wrote: »

And, this also is more than just the weight and height and natural size advantage. Sergio also has great feet and great speed too, and a very good tactical brain.

Alvarez, for example, has size advantage over Floyd too, but he doesn;t have the speed and quick feet that Sergio has, so Floyd here could be a lot more competitive.

Sergio doesn't have a great defence...floyd is quicker and has better feet.....martinez's inside game isn't great

martinez has more power and is stronger than floyd but his style doesn't bully ppl so i don't think the bigger size is as big a factor......

RiseToTheTop · 19-03-2012 8:26pm

The weigh in system is crazy.

2 fellas could officially be 150lbs (for example) yet one fighter could put on 16lbs before the fight and the other fighter not. That is a weight division apart! The 150lbs fighter might as well fight a Super Middleweight who does not put on weight after the weigh in.

Henno30 · 20-03-2012 12:25am

RiseToTheTop wrote: »

The weigh in system is crazy.

2 fellas could officially be 150lbs (for example) yet one fighter could put on 16lbs before the fight and the other fighter not. That is a weight division apart! The 150lbs fighter might as well fight a Super Middleweight who does not put on weight after the weigh in.

Wasn't it changed because the level of dehydration caused by same day weigh-ins was found to be a significant factor in deaths in the ring? Maybe the alternative would be same day weigh-ins with hydration testing? I can't imagine that happening though.

WBC are apparently going back to same day weigh-ins this summer, with a 10% overweight allowance.

walshb · 20-03-2012 2:38pm

Henno30 wrote: »

WBC are apparently going back to same day weigh-ins this summer, with a 10% overweight allowance.

I am not sure what this means?

I know they went to previous day weigh ins for health reasons.

I think the rule should be previous day weigh ins with a limit on the amount you can add on come ring time. I know this does happen, but not a requirement as far as I know.

The amounts you can add on should be incremental according to the weight divisions. So, a LHW for example should be allowed gain more overnight than say a flyweight.

walshb · 20-03-2012 2:40pm

RiseToTheTop wrote: »

The weigh in system is crazy.

2 fellas could officially be 150lbs (for example) yet one fighter could put on 16lbs before the fight and the other fighter not. That is a weight division apart! The 150lbs fighter might as well fight a Super Middleweight who does not put on weight after the weigh in.

And in the case of Sergio and Floyd, IF Sergio got to 150, I am sure his frame and body and natural size would allow him to gain at least 10 lbs come fight night, but conversely, Floyd's frame and body size would not be as comfortable or natural with 10 plus lbs added on. This is why to me, along with Sergio's skills, the fight is not one that Floyd can threaten in.

colly10 · 20-03-2012 2:40pm

Henno30 wrote: »

WBC are apparently going back to same day weigh-ins this summer, with a 10% overweight allowance.

Sounds like a joke of a proposal, that means a guy can weigh in at 154 for a light welterweight fight so the likes of Canelo could win a title at 140, not surprising with the WBC, there a joke of an organisation anyway

Edit: I see what they're doing, they'll have a weigh in the day before as usual. Then at 9.30 am on the day they'll weigh them again allowing a max of 10% increase. As the weigh in for the increase is early in the morning i'm not sure what affect this would have

walshb · 20-03-2012 3:33pm

colly10 wrote: »

Edit: I see what they're doing, they'll have a weigh in the day before as usual. Then at 9.30 am on the day they'll weigh them again allowing a max of 10% increase. As the weigh in for the increase is early in the morning i'm not sure what affect this would have

That sounds mad. I mean, a 10 percent increase for a 140 lb man is 14 lbs. That is allowed at 0930 hrs on fight day? The increase should be a certain amount gained just before they enter the ring, say an hour before. This increase shoudl be in line with the weight divisions.

Big Ears · 20-03-2012 3:59pm

walshb wrote: »

That sounds mad. I mean, a 10 percent increase for a 140 lb man is 14 lbs. That is allowed at 0930 hrs on fight day? The increase should be a certain amount gained just before they enter the ring, say an hour before. This increase shoudl be in line with the weight divisions.

It is the same protocol as has been used by the IBF for quite some time now, plenty of fighters have been stripped for being overweight at the 2nd day weigh-in.

Not sure it's a good idea really, if anything it discourages fighters from rehydrating correctly, rather than encouraging them to move to a more natural weightclass.

walshb · 20-03-2012 4:18pm

Big Ears wrote: »

It is the same protocol as has been used by the IBF for quite some time now, plenty of fighters have been stripped for being overweight at the 2nd day weigh-in.

Not sure it's a good idea really, if anything it discourages fighters from rehydrating correctly, rather than encouraging them to move to a more natural weightclass.

So, they are allowed a ten percent increase (overnight) at 0930 hrs on fight day? And, are they then allowed to be any weight when they enter the ring, which would be at least 10 hrs after 0930 hrs. That sounds plain bonkers to me.

Surely this 10 percent allowance should be a hell of a lot closer to fight time as opposed to 0930 hrs on fight day. Ridiculous.

walshb · 20-03-2012 4:24pm

Big Ears wrote: »

Not sure it's a good idea really, if anything it discourages fighters from rehydrating correctly, rather than encouraging them to move to a more natural weightclass.

But, surely gaining 14 lbs say for a 140 lb man in 12-14 hrs, (weigh in 1 at 1900-2100 day 1 and weigh in 2 at 0930 the next day) is a whole lot of gain. That's a massive allowance for 12-14 hrs of time difference. A lot of rehydration. I wonder did even Ricky Fatton weight 154 lbs for many of his LWW fights at fight time, let alone at 0930 on fight day

Big Ears · 21-03-2012 12:46am

walshb wrote: »

So, they are allowed a ten percent increase (overnight) at 0930 hrs on fight day? And, are they then allowed to be any weight when they enter the ring, which would be at least 10 hrs after 0930 hrs. That sounds plain bonkers to me.

Surely this 10 percent allowance should be a hell of a lot closer to fight time as opposed to 0930 hrs on fight day. Ridiculous.

I don't believe the IBF one has always been at a set time of 09:30 or anything like that, but fighters are reweighed the day of the fight, and it is a considerable amount of time before the bout. HBO also reweigh fighters on fight night sometimes for their own purposes.

Maybe, but again would that encourage fighters not to rehydrate properly ?

walshb wrote: »

But, surely gaining 14 lbs say for a 140 lb man in 12-14 hrs, (weigh in 1 at 1900-2100 day 1 and weigh in 2 at 0930 the next day) is a whole lot of gain. That's a massive allowance for 12-14 hrs of time difference. A lot of rehydration. I wonder did even Ricky Fatton weight 154 lbs for many of his LWW fights at fight time, let alone at 0930 on fight day

Yep it is a lot, but Gatti went from 140 lbs up to 160 when he fought Gamache. Now this may have not been at 09:30, but then again a lot of weigh ins take place earlier than 19:00-21:00, 36 hour beforehand weigh ins are not uncommon now days, which imo isn't right, but that's the nature of the game as it is.

RiseToTheTop · 21-03-2012 12:57am

No guessing what nationality Macklin is in the eyes of the British Media now :rolleyes:

barney4001 · 21-03-2012 10:49am

Probably the sensible weigh in time would be on the day of the fight say 11 am or 2 pm

Martinez Macklin March 17 MSG

Comments