How much should I be charged?

orchidsrpretty

Hi all, I am replacing my boiler. I have already got a new one and have been ringing around to get a price for a installation. Its going to be a straight forward job. The prices I have got range from 800 to 1100(inc VAT).
I was expecting to have to pay at most 400e.
Why are the charges so high? It will be a 1 day job, so 800e for 1 day of labour seems crazy to me.

I do admit I don't really have a clue about these things, can anyone inform me as to why the charges are so high?

Thanks.

Billy Bunting

Who said it would be a straight forward job ?? what boiler have you and what are you replacing with ??

orchidsrpretty

A number of plumbers who know my area and have dealt with boilers in my estate. When I asked how long it would take they say "well its a straight forward job-would take a day, that will be 800e, thanks".........

The old boiler is a vokera(sp) and the new one is a Worchester Greenstar Ri,

Thanks

gdavis

ask them are they gonna powerflush the heating system before installing boiler?!

Billy Bunting

OTT!!, i would imagine i would be happy with 400 for a days work, but i ain't seen the job.

orchidsrpretty

gdavis wrote: »

ask them are they gonna powerflush the heating system before installing boiler?!

Not sure if its the same thing but have been told the system will need to be bled. Have been ripped off so many times by tradesmen, I think they just see a person who hasn't a clue about anything and charge me accordling, unfortunatly this time I just don't have the cash to go along with it.

Stove Fan

Wow it sounds very expensive too me:eek: I would be happy with 200 a day but can't even find work.

400 a day I would be delighted:D I certainly think 800 a day is OTT even if it is a complicated job or takes longer. I say keep looking, there is a recession!!

Stove Fan:)

orchidsrpretty

Stove Fan wrote: »

Wow it sounds very expensive too me:eek: I would be happy with 200 a day but can't even find work.

400 a day I would be delighted:D I certainly think 800 a day is OTT even if it is a complicated job or takes longer than a week. I say keep looking, there is a recession!!

Stove Fan:)

Yeah maybe I am looking in the wrong places, I have been getting the numbers off the RGI site. Any recommendations for places I should be looking for numbers? Thanks

Joey the lips

You should not have bought the boiler yourself. It would have worked out cheaper for the installer as it would have been a service job and s.he could reclaim the vat

about 1000 euro i imagine the price to be for installiation

tayto lover

If someone does a days work, no matter how hard, and walks off with 200e in his pocket then its a nice little earner. That's a grand for 5 days -- nice lolly.

sullzz

tayto lover wrote: »

If someone does a days work, no matter how hard, and walks off with 200e in his pocket then its a nice little earner. That's a grand for 5 days -- nice lolly.

I dibt think itd be 200 euro on the pocket , what about tax , diesel , fittings abd pipe , etc

Billy Bunting

tayto lover wrote: »

If someone does a days work, no matter how hard, and walks off with 200e in his pocket then its a nice little earner. That's a grand for 5 days -- nice lolly.

Obviously not self employed or in business.

Billy Bunting

Joey the lips wrote: »

about 1000 euro i imagine the price to be for installiation

:eek:

Do you get a lot of work Joey

orchidsrpretty

Joey the lips wrote: »

You should not have bought the boiler yourself. It would have worked out cheaper for the installer as it would have been a service job and s.he could reclaim the vat

about 1000 euro i imagine the price to be for installiation

I was given the boiler, so I could still go ahead and get one off the installer but even then I am being quoted 1800-2500k which is way out of price range at the monent and I need to get it sorted asap. So if boilers are costing about 600(without VAT) I am getting charged 1200+ for an installation. Or am I missing something?

gdavis

1000 euro for installation joey???? does that include a powerflush?

gdavis

the system needs to be bled???? i think u r bein bled dry!!!

anuprising

joey is spot on at €1000 (800 plus vat )
thats for a proper job but wont be done in a day
cleansed and flushed ,condensate redrill flue ,repipe etc ,2 days to do it properly

sure the going rate to commission a condensing boiler is €150

bord sierra pay thier installers €450 so you can guess if you pay peanuts you get monkeys



edit - i should add that when you pay 800 that includes all the back up services you would expect from a professional ,call backs to check system after two weeks and a month ,plus any issue in the first year

pay a man a days wage to install it and i gaurantee there will be no back up service and could cost you more in the long run

Joey the lips

gdavis wrote: »

1000 euro for installation joey???? does that include a powerflush?

Every new boiler should include a power flush and any good plumber will know this. Especially the ones with fabricated exchangers. If the op is not happy with the price you know the rule of thumb...

3 QUOTES....

Stove Fan

I'm just staggered that you can get 800 euro to install an oil boiler.
In the UK around 8 years ago I used to fit brand new gas combi boiler heating systems in 2 or 3 bed terraces.
Either Glow worm 23 or for an extra £100 worcester 24I mains gas combi boilers and 7 rads with 6 trv's and upgrade the gas supply for around £1,500 all in for everything. Used to take around 5 days on my own in a two bed edwardian terraced house using all copper piping, lifting the floorboards and refitting the carpets etc.

I used to get around £400 out of the deal. There were others doing the same for around 1,750. There was massive competition in Birmingham in the UK and kept the prices low.

I used to buy my heatpack from; http://mrcentralheating.co.uk/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=125_124_130

There are great deals in the UK on some things compared to here.
I find the choice in things better, but way prefer to live here in a country area that I couldn't possibly afford to buy in the UK.


Stove Fan:D

Billy Bunting

That wee Tiger still running about in places.

I keep forgetting thats theres a price for a job and then theres a Dublin price for the job. :rolleyes:

The OP has these quotes from various plumbers for a straight forward days work, their words, i really can't see how their justified.

anuprising

how many seai jobs have you done billy ?

gdavis

thats fair enough joey if it includes powerflush,but i guarantee that a hell of a lot of lads would not be doing one

Billy Bunting

anuprising wrote: »

how many seai jobs have you done billy ?

Ah!! thats it, these guys were seai approved, justification.

Billy Bunting

There are guys around my manor who are washing windows to make a pound, they would cut it to the bone to get the job.

anuprising

nobody said that billy , it was a question designed to draw an answer to draw a conclusion

anuprising

Billy Bunting wrote: »

There are guys around my manor who are washing windows to make a pound, they would cut it to the bone to get the job.

tell them to get in touch with sierra/ bord gais , as I said they pay €450 ,even in your 'manor' .
they pay thier service guys 40 plus vat for a service so they pay 10 times that amount for a boiler install
everyone here goes on about a proper service costing €80 , so multiply by 10 and a proper install should be around € 800

Merch

anuprising wrote: »

joey is spot on at €1000 (800 plus vat )
thats for a proper job but wont be done in a day
cleansed and flushed ,condensate redrill flue ,repipe etc ,2 days to do it properly

sure the going rate to commission a condensing boiler is €150

bord sierra pay thier installers €450 so you can guess if you pay peanuts you get monkeys



edit - i should add that when you pay 800 that includes all the back up services you would expect from a professional ,call backs to check system after two weeks and a month ,plus any issue in the first year

pay a man a days wage to install it and i gaurantee there will be no back up service and could cost you more in the long run

Id prefer to pay them that when they call back myself, rather than hope they return after being paid, whats included in a powerflush that seems to make the extra cost? over flushing the system out normally?

tayto lover

"Power flush" sounds good but 600e extra for it sounds bad.

gdavis

a power flush is basically treating ur system with chemicals before flushing out system with a powerflush machine which ensures every rad and all pipework are cleared of sludge and iron oxide build up thus ensuring ur new boiler will be going on to a clean system which ensures u get most from ur boiler.it is usually a full days work as u have to flush each rad etc.

DGOBS

Most flushing machines do not have to be connected to each rad, usually at one point in the system, but each rad would be individually flushed (by closing the rest) and still takes about a day, pre-treating with chemicals as required a week or so before flushing is recommended, hot flush reduces flushing time by almost 50%.

If a new boiler is installed without flushing it will void the warranty from the majority of manufacturers!!!

gdavis

edited lol

JohnnieK

I'm always amazed when I hear of fellas installing boilers in one day. I could never do it in one day, maybe I'm too slow:D:D:D:D. I always powerflush the system before installation for 2 reasons. 1. Manufacturers recommendations, and 2 most of the systems are in s i t e.

If your getting a new boiler in where I live you would be off your head not to get your system flushed. The water is c r a p and most of the houses (and a lot of them are only 6/7 years old) the water is as black as the ace of spades.

Just recently started doing work for a guy who has 29 houses around me. More than half the boilers have dripping safety valves (I've replaced them all) and the previous company's answer was to install auto fill valves:(. Great you might think but now the systems are corroded and blocking rads and the boiler filters have to be cleaned nearly every second month. He wont give me the go ahead to powerflush them so If he is happy to keep giving me call out fee's to unblock rads and filters then that's his business.

Merch

JohnnieK wrote: »

I'm always amazed when I hear of fellas installing boilers in one day. I could never do it in one day, maybe I'm too slow:D:D:D:D. I always powerflush the system before installation for 2 reasons. 1. Manufacturers recommendations, and 2 most of the systems are in s i t e.

If your getting a new boiler in where I live you would be off your head not to get your system flushed. The water is c r a p and most of the houses (and a lot of them are only 6/7 years old) the water is as black as the ace of spades.

Just recently started doing work for a guy who has 29 houses around me. More than half the boilers have dripping safety valves (I've replaced them all) and the previous company's answer was to install auto fill valves:(. Great you might think but now the systems are corroded and blocking rads and the boiler filters have to be cleaned nearly every second month. He wont give me the go ahead to powerflush them so If he is happy to keep giving me call out fee's to unblock rads and filters then that's his business.

What part are you in? how much do you charge to do a powerflush and how long does it take, I think my system needs bled and flushed, I'm not getting a new boiler but maybe a powerflush will help prolong the life of it a bit.
When you say the water is crap, do you mean the supply water? or the stuff already in the heating system.
I assume any corrosion is from the insides of the rads/maybe the boiler, the copper pipes wont have any build up that contributes to this?

orchidsrpretty

I posted the job on onlinetrademans,ie and got a few quotes; none near the prices I was quoted on the phone, its now a two day job as the guy has recommended doing the powerflush thing. Price all in : 400e so I am very happy with that:)

Merch

I was debating whether to post here as I didnt want to seem to be trying to take over, but glad I did now as I've picked up a bit of information I didnt have before, especially with your last post @ Orchidsrpretty, regarding onlinetradesmans.ie, I'm terrible for remembering these things so I'll know to check my boards history when I need it again.
I'm guessing at that price, 150-200 is flush and 200-250 is fit, it gives me a a ballpark figure to start with.

DGOBS

150-200 for a flush is a joke, my chemical costs would be roughly 100! You get what you pay for, and as was said here recently, a boiler is only as good as the water flowing through it

JohnnieK

I wouldn't flush a system for €200. That wouldn't cover my labour for the day:D. That if there is a back boiler on the system and the non-return valve needs to be bridged out and so on. It takes a day to flush a system of up to 10 rads, then what if the system airlocks. There is loads to take into account.

There's also a good few "colleges" on onlinetradesman.ie not charging VAT when pricing which means no invoice/receipt and maybe back up.

DGOBS

Yeah, and someday they'll find the customer is the revenue!

Billy Bunting

I’m seriously interested in the popularity of the Powerflush these days. I mainly stick to service work but do half a dozen or so boiler changes a year, normally cushty one's! I must be really lucky because most of the systems I come across have been clean as a whistle because most installers over the past 10 yrs at least have been educated to use inhibitors, on an average 3 bed house I normally change the pump there and then, and stick in Fernox F3 a week before I do the work.
More serious problems such as patchy cold rads I call out a mate with his machine, kemco cf90, it takes him around 2 hours to put it all together and take it apart, he goes around each rad with his hammer drill and attachment, 15 minutes each rad, 8 rads = 2hrs, total 4 hrs, charges me €35/hr plus €20 for the machine, he ain’t vat registered:D.
I always thought he was cheap but he recons he’s doing these all day everyday and spreads the cost of the machine over 3 or 4 years, sounds to me like he’s making a good living even at these prices, maybe he has another charge for regular custards.

I Believe the MI/Passport ask's "Has the system been flushed?", not Powerflushed.

Marcanthony

Billy Bunting wrote: »

8 rads = 2hrs, total 4 hrs, charges me €35/hr plus €20 for the machine, he ain’t vat registered:D.
I always thought he was cheap but he recons he’s doing these all day everyday and spreads the cost of the machine over 3 or 4 years, sounds to me like he’s making a good living even at these prices, maybe he has another charge for regular custards.

Thats a decent honest lad that will not be effected by the recession.
Anybody charging anymore than 400 ( even allowing for company Over heads ect) should be on the mug shot part of crimeline.

Merch

DGOBS wrote: »

150-200 for a flush is a joke, my chemical costs would be roughly 100! You get what you pay for, and as was said here recently, a boiler is only as good as the water flowing through it

Well, I did ask how much , when an approx price didnt come up in reply, I could only go on the OPs price that they are getting for a flush and install.
It would be handy if domestic systems had a filter in the system (with a bypass) to catch and gather all this sludge/residue.

It makes me wonder though, at the cost of flushing :eek:, might it be as easy and effective to just change the rads if they have corroded that badly to create problems? assuming the boiler hasnt corroded too

Merch

Merch wrote: »

It makes me wonder though, at the cost of flushing :eek:, might it be as easy and effective to just change the rads if they have corroded that badly to create problems?

No, sludge has a sandy consistency and will settle at the lowest point or as the boiler has the smallest pipe rwork of a heating system the boiler can act like a filter trapping sludge.

Sludge is only found in systems that has not been properly maintained or has lost there inhibitor, there is no excuse in this day and age for a dirty system as inhibitor has been around for a long time, anybody who has a system power flushed should protect it with their life and maintain the levels of inhibitor over the years to prevent anymore drama.

Billy Bunting

Merch wrote: »

It makes me wonder though, at the cost of flushing :eek:, might it be as easy and effective to just change the rads

By the looks of it it would really depend on who you get to FLUSH your system.

Merch

Can you hire powerflush or similar equipment from hire centres in Ireland?

JohnnieK

Merch wrote: »

Can you hire powerflush or similar equipment from hire centres in Ireland?

There is a place in Tallaght called PRISMA that hire out the Sentinal Machine, after that I dont know

Merch

JohnnieK wrote: »

There is a place in Tallaght called PRISMA that hire out the Sentinal Machine, after that I dont know

Thanks, Id never have come across PRISMA otherwise, I looked up sentinel too, they have a load of products related to cleaning heating systems, I fairly sure that even B&Q sell their cleaning and inhibitor products, although Im sure they could be got elsewhere cheaper.
I'd prefer rent out something purpose built but I'd nearly considered making up a piece of equipment to pump out a system using an old domestic heating pump.

JohnnieK

Merch wrote: »

Thanks, Id never have come across PRISMA otherwise, I looked up sentinel too, they have a load of products related to cleaning heating systems, I fairly sure that even B&Q sell their cleaning and inhibitor products, although Im sure they could be got elsewhere cheaper.
I'd prefer rent out something purpose built but I'd nearly considered making up a piece of equipment to pump out a system using an old domestic heating pump.

Re: the domestic heating pump.

You wont get the pressure you need to clean. A domestic heating pump only circulates there is no real pressure behind it. You need some thing with a bit of umph.
Try putting Sentinal X400 into it first. Run it for a week or two normally and drain down completely You will notice the difference with the 400 in the system

Refill then with Sentinal X100

Merch

what quantity do the x400 and x100 come in? or should I use? anywhere better to buy it than B&Q, plumbers merchants/providers?

I think I will try that before hiring out equipment, having said that I've had a walk around and checking rads, have found no cold spots/areas on the rads.

Cheers for the advice.

Billy Bunting

Merch wrote: »

I think I will try that before hiring out equipment, having said that I've had a walk around and checking rads, have found no cold spots/areas on the rads.

Cheers for the advice.

Why are you wanting to POWERFLUSH your system when it doesnt need it, flush it if desired, use a cleanser, but you have no signs of needing a powerflush.

GASMANN

Marcanthony wrote: »

Thats a decent honest lad that will not be effected by the recession.
Anybody charging anymore than 400 ( even allowing for company Over heads ect) should be on the mug shot part of crimeline.

i dont agree, just wanted to let you know.

GASMANN

Marcanthony wrote: »

Thats a decent honest lad that will not be effected by the recession.
Anybody charging anymore than 400 ( even allowing for company Over heads ect) should be on the mug shot part of crimeline.

decent honest lad - not vat registered and you've a problem with somebody charging + €400 a day legit, where's the logic here ?