Gaming News

Benzino

nix wrote: »

People who play the majority of blizzard games have spent money on powerful machines to play their games. Playing games on their phone with rigs they have, just isn't something that would be done. For me anyway, I see playing mobile games over PC/console games as a massive waste of time in comparison and a massive step down also gameplay wise, the controls are tedious at best and they are just a massive hindrance on our phones battery life :pac:

That’s not a reason to not do mobile games. People buy powerful machines to play all sorts of games, not just Blizzard games. Blizzard never told people to do this nor did they ever make a promise/guarantee that all their games would be console/pc only. What about people who want to play the franchise on their commute, or during their lunch break at work, or when on holidays? What about people who don’t have a pc/console and can’t afford one? Screw them, eh?

There are millions of people who do like mobile games however and this is a very big game coming to their platform. Not all Blizzard games need to be aimed at you, they make plenty of games for you as it is.

nix wrote: »

So with that, fans would want Blizzard to be spending their resources on games for consoles/PC as it will be of a high quality, the kind of games they want to play, Not what blizzard want them to play, which will be bottom shelf gameplay at best in comparison and nothing more than a means for Blizzard to milk their customers with micro transactions. Cause lets face it, thats all mobile games are, an expensive distraction.

So nobody wants to play Diablo on mobile?

nix wrote: »

And for people who believe its a separate new team working on this, wake up, there is no way they wont have people with Diablo experience working on this title, it will be a massive money maker if executed properly and fans will be right to think its slowing down the progress time wise on the release of the next blizzard game.

Saying it’d slow down the release of Blizzard’s next game means nothing, it’s an assumption and one you can’t quantify with actual numbers (how long will it slow down). Should they stop working on WoW expansions as they slow down release of next game, imagine what the WoW team could make if they weren’t doing expansions!

nix wrote: »

They just expect their fan base to be as dumb and compliant as the EA/Ubi fan base. Lets hope they're wrong and that it turns into another battlefront 2 bite in the ass

Honestly, how is releasing a game of a very popular franchise on a platform that the majority (if not all) of their fan base have considered treating them as dumb and compliant?

gizmo

degrassinoel wrote: »

What it looks like is a reskin of an existing game, the characters, weapons, effects, skills, backgrounds, and movement are all a match and if not, they're so close to it as to be a complete knockoff of Diablo

Well yea, that's the funny part of all of this, there's been Diablo knockoffs and titles inspired by the franchise on mobile for years, some of which have done fantastically well in other markets. Now Diablo itself is getting released and people are pointing out how similar it looks to these same titles. :pac:

Bambi wrote: »

It's possible that it will, they could hold off on releasing a proper Diablo follow up so they can milk this mobile nonsense for as much as possible.

It's possible, sure. But excluding the Chinese markets, Diablo 3 and Reaper of Souls sold a combined 30m copies so there's definitely substantial audiences for both. That's aside from the fact that Immortal will probably be filled to the brim with a level of micro-transactions which aren't deemed acceptable to Western audiences so I can't see it doing nearly as well outside of China et al.

Dyr

Benzino wrote: »

Honestly, how is releasing a game of a very popular franchise on a platform that the majority (if not all) of their fan base have considered treating them as dumb and compliant?

It's probably because the majority of their customers don't want to play Diablo on their phones but they do want a new Diablo on PC



It's fairly straightforward in fairness, you tell your existing customers that you're releasing a product they don't want but not releasing a product they do want, they'll become vexatious.



It takes a certain amount to willful incomprehension not to understand it

degrassinoel

gizmo wrote: »

Well yea, that's the funny part of all of this, there's been Diablo knockoffs and titles inspired by the franchise on mobile for years, some of which have done fantastically well in other markets. Now Diablo itself is getting released and people are pointing out how similar it looks to these same titles. :pac:

I'd be laughing with ye if the same company was not hired to make the game :P

gizmo

degrassinoel wrote: »

I'd be laughing with ye if the same company was not hired to make the game :P

That kinda makes sense though, no? Their established partner in China has an engine and infrastructure that's ready to be adapted into a Diablo game, it's an easy call to make on their side.

And to be fair, while Crusaders of Light may be mechanically similar to Diablo in many respects, it's not as blatant in its "inspiration" as Gameloft's Dungeon Hunter 5 is to both it and Heroes of the Storm.

nix

CatInABox wrote: »

Blizzard has close to 5000 employees, they're not a one team studio, and haven't been for years. Entirely possible that members of the Diablo team have transferred over, but the idea that the main team is working on this, a mobile game, is a bit silly in my opinion. It's also not really going to slow down development of any main game either, the number of people transferred over would be small, with NetEase doing most of the grunt work.

Not saying they are, but they will have some of the Diablo Directors involved, to say none of them are and its an all fresh team is a bit far fetched to me..

Benzino wrote: »

That’s not a reason to not do mobile games. People buy powerful machines to play all sorts of games, not just Blizzard games. Blizzard never told people to do this nor did they ever make a promise/guarantee that all their games would be console/pc only. What about people who want to play the franchise on their commute, or during their lunch break at work, or when on holidays? What about people who don’t have a pc/console and can’t afford one? Screw them, eh?

I'm pointing out why the fans are unhappy blizz are doing this instead of say, Diablo 4, or another D3 expansion. I dont actually care, I've learned nothing is sacred in any money making industry, so dont let stuff like this bother me anymore, i just roll eyes and laugh.

Also, if you can afford a phone that would be powerful enough to play this, you can afford a PS4/Xbox/Switch.

So nobody wants to play Diablo on mobile?

Oh im sure there is, is there more that dont want it? I think their recent youtube trailers up/down votes can answer that in regards to people that care about the game

Saying it’d slow down the release of Blizzard’s next game means nothing, it’s an assumption and one you can’t quantify with actual numbers (how long will it slow down). Should they stop working on WoW expansions as they slow down release of next game, imagine what the WoW team could make if they weren’t doing expansions!

Same can be said about it not affecting it and the Wow argument is just weak.

Honestly, how is releasing a game of a very popular franchise on a platform that the majority (if not all) of their fan base have considered treating them as dumb and compliant?

I already touched off this, their fans can play their games on more powerful machines, and them making a mobile game isnt because they want to reach the mobile market, they want to liquidate their fans pockets with micro transaction trash like gaming ala candy crush and clash of clans, thats why..

If they release a Diablo game with no hidden costs, Cool! Thats great, but we all know thats not what this will be :pac:

Benzino

Bambi wrote: »

It's probably because the majority of their customers don't want to play Diablo on their phones but they do want a new Diablo on PC



It's fairly straightforward in fairness, you tell your existing customers that you're releasing a product they don't want but not releasing a product they do want, they'll become vexatious.



It takes a certain amount to willful incomprehension not to understand it

Oh I didn't realise nobody wanted a mobile Diablo. I must have missed the survey.

nix

Benzino wrote: »

Oh I didn't realise nobody wanted a mobile Diablo. I must have missed the survey.

If there was a survey, Blizzard would just delete the results anyway :P

gizmo

nix wrote: »

Not saying they are, but they will have some of the Diablo Directors involved, to say none of them are and its an all fresh team is a bit far fetched to me..

I don't think anyone would say there will be no involvement from Blizzard, more likely there'll be some design oversight and production support on their end with NetEase responsible for the lion's share of actual implementation. To use a current and non-mobile example, it'd be like Avalanche Studios handling RAGE 2 rather than id Software.

nix wrote: »

If they release a Diablo game with no hidden costs, Cool! Thats great, but we all know thats not this will be :pac:

The chances of this happening are miniscule. I found it extremely telling that the inventory was disabled in the playable demo of Immortal at Blizzcon.

Dyr

Benzino wrote: »

Oh I didn't realise nobody wanted a mobile Diablo. I must have missed the survey.

Oh I think it's fair to say the majority of their customers ( i.e. people who play Diablo in all it's incarnations) don't want a mobile game.


I know you had to change "customers" to "nobody" in order to make a cogent point but even at that, Blizzard can by all means chase another audience and risk alienating their current one. Good luck with that.

Benzino

nix wrote: »

I'm pointing out why the fans are unhappy blizz are doing this instead of say, Diablo 4, or another D3 expansion. I dont actually care, I've learned nothing is sacred in any money making industry, so dont let stuff like this bother me anymore, i just roll eyes and laugh.

Also, if you can afford a phone that would be powerful enough to play this, you can afford a PS4/Xbox/Switch.

I don’t care either I just find it funny how entitled gamers are, I mean they even have a petition going to have the game canned haha.

Comparing the cost of a phone to a console is hardly a fair compression, phones have a use outside of gaming and a large part of the first world population would already have one.

nix wrote: »

Oh im sure there is, is there more that dont want it? I think their recent youtube trailers up/down votes can answer that in regards to people that care about the game

I wouldn’t gauge support for anything based on youtube likes. But even if you do, it still shows people want it, so whats the problem.

nix wrote: »

Same can be said about it not affecting it and the Wow argument is just weak.

I disagree the argument is weak, you either think working on multiple games slows down release of others or you don’t. You can’t really pick and choose based on the game been made. You may care more/less, but that doesn’t make the argument any more valid in my opinion.

nix wrote: »

I already touched off this, their fans can play their games on more powerful machines, and them making a mobile game isnt because they want to reach the mobile market, they want to liquidate their fans pockets with micro transaction trash like gaming ala candy crush and clash of clans, thats why..

If they release a Diablo game with no hidden costs, Cool! Thats great, but we all know thats not this will be :pac:

If they didn’t want to reach the mobile market, they wouldn’t be making a mobile game. And of course they want to make money, it’s the primary objective of every for profit company.

I just find the whole thing funny and slightly embarrassed for those kicking up a fuss. It’s not even Blizzard’s first mobile game, they have been in the mobile market for a while now.

nix

Aye, but blizz fans dont see that, they have been waiting on Diablo news for aaaaaaages now, though not as long as the wait from D2 to D3

But dropping this at blizzcon without any other Diablo news reveal, was silly and they deserve all of this backlash. What they should have done first was reveal something to show they are working on a new expansion or diablo sequel, ANYTHING! even if its just one of those 5 second trailers that just reveals the name of the title in production, or even just hints at it.

Then drop the mobile crap :pac:

Mickeroo

I would have thought the mobile game has a different target audience to the full releases tbh. Pretty dumb of them to announce it at blizzcon though, anyone could have told them it would result in outrage.

Benzino

Bambi wrote: »

Oh I think it's fair to say the majority of their customers ( i.e. people who play Diablo in all it's incarnations) don't want a mobile game.

Ah ok, all future Diablo games should never try and appeal to a new audience. Got it.

Bambi wrote: »

I know you had to change "customers" to "nobody" in order to make a cogent point but even at that, Blizzard can by all means chase another audience and risk alienating their current one. Good luck with that.

I didn’t change anything, that was my point all along You seem to be taking this personally, so I will let you get back to your petition.

Benzino

nix wrote: »

Aye, but blizz fans dont see that, they have been waiting on Diablo news for aaaaaaages now, though not as long as the wait from D2 to D3

But dropping this at blizzcon without any other Diablo news reveal, was silly and they deserve all of this backlash. What they should have done first was reveal something to show they are working on a new expansion or diablo sequel, ANYTHING! even if its just one of those 5 second trailers that just reveals the name of the title in production, or even just hints at it.

Then drop the mobile crap :pac:

The announcement at the conference was stupid, but that's the only think I see Blizzard doing wrong (and even then, they are entitled to do it at their own conference).

Blizzard tend to take ages to make games, it's why they are so good. Just leave them to it. They haven't become a mobile company over night.

Dyr

Benzino wrote: »

Ah ok, all future Diablo games should never try and appeal to a new audience. Got it.

I didn’t change anything, that was my point all along You seem to be taking this personally, so I will let you get back to your petition.

I haven't played a Diablo game since II, none of this is personal to me. tbh I find the Blizzcon fandom thing a bit weird, I can understand being a fan of a game series but being a fan of a company is a bit weird

I just find it odd that you have to misinterpret or exaggerate what other people post to make a point. If you have to do that does it not occur to you that you might be on shaky ground?

nix

Benzino wrote: »

I disagree the argument is weak, you either think working on multiple games slows down release of others or you don’t. You can’t really pick and choose based on the game been made. You may care more/less, but that doesn’t make the argument any more valid in my opinion.

The WoW and Diablo teams are separate, the wow team is always working to make wow fresh and adding more content. So they are always trying to make them happy, which is expected with a subscription.

The Diablo team however, from all we know, is releasing a mobile game the majority of the Diablo players dont want, they wont stop playing D3 to play a mobile game.

Its been nearly 5 years since reaper of souls and all they have done since then really is put the same game on multiple platforms.. The additions to the actual game since then have been minuscule, which is terrible for a non competitive PVP style game, it needs new content to stay alive.

So the Diablo player base, 5 years of waiting for more content and all Blizzard have to show them is that they are releasing a similar dumbed down money sucking version of the same game for mobile.. :rolleyes:

Benzino

Bambi wrote: »

I haven't played a Diablo game since II, none of this is personal to me. tbh I find the Blizzcon fandom thing a bit weird, I can understand being a fan of a game series but being a fan of a company is a bit weird

I just find it odd that you have to misinterpret or exaggerate what other people post to make a point. If you have to do that does it not occur to you that you might be on shaky ground?

I find it odd that people can't understand they are trying to reach a new audience.

Benzino

nix wrote: »

The WoW and Diablo teams are separate, the wow team is always working to make wow fresh and adding more content. So they are always trying to make them happy, which is expected with a subscription.

The Diablo team however, from all we know, is releasing a mobile game the majority of the Diablo players dont want, they wont stop playing D3 to play a mobile game.

Its been nearly 5 years since reaper of souls and all they have done since then really is put the same game on multiple platforms.. The additions to the actual game since then have been minuscule, which is terrible for a non competitive PVP style game, it needs new content to stay alive.

So the Diablo player base, 5 years of waiting for more content and all Blizzard have to show them is that they are releasing a similar dumbed down money sucking version of the same game for mobile.. :rolleyes:

But we know that the game is been made by another developer, freeing up the Diablo team. Wasn't there like a 10 year wait after D2?

TitianGerm

nix wrote: »

If there was a survey, Blizzard would just delete the results anyway :P

Maybe Blizzard want to get a foothold on the Asian mobile market? Mobile gaming is huge over there.

nix

Benzino wrote: »

I find it odd that people can't understand they are trying to reach a new audience.

They do understand that, they are mad thats all they have been doing for the last 5 years :pac:

Whats next? Diablo for our microwave digital displays? Diablo top trumps? Diablo backgammon? :pac:

nix

Benzino wrote: »

But we know that the game is been made by another developer, freeing up the Diablo team. Wasn't there like a 10 year wait after D2?

Yes, and what a painful wait it was :mad:

However, with the resources they have now compared to then, its not necessary, or shouldn't be anyway.

Sonics2k

Benzino wrote: »

I find it odd that people can't understand they are trying to reach a new audience.

I think you've kinda answered it here. For reference, I always found Diablo to be okay. I'm not a die hard fan.

However, people have been waiting a new Diablo announcement for some time after Diablo 3 was all but abandoned by Blizzard in the last few years.

Blizzcon has always been for big announcements, new titles, new IP's, the Classic server announcement, Warcraft 3 Reforged, new expansions, new characters for Overwatch and so on.

All of this is a big deal to the fans of each game, and Diablo fans have been begging for new content or a new game for a long time now because their content is stale. Announcing a mobile game to Diablo fans was only ever going to have one result.

Ironically, had they announced a mobile game outside Blizzcon it would have been received much better.

gizmo

nix wrote: »

Yes, and what a painful wait it was :mad:

However, with the resources they have now compared to then, its not necessary, or shouldn't be anyway.

Blizzard still tend to take their time though, even when it comes to choosing when to announce new titles. Overwatch, for instance, took three years to develop and that was with reusing work they had already put into the then cancelled Titan project. At Blizzcon last year they showed some really interesting footage of how the game came together over the years. The first in-game video comes a little bit after the 24min mark if you want to skip through it.

Comparatively, Reaper of Souls came out in 2014 so I think it's fair to say we should be expecting the next mainline Diablo release soon enough.

nix

gizmo wrote: »

Blizzard still tend to take their time though, even when it comes to choosing when to announce new titles. Overwatch, for instance, took three years to develop and that was with reusing work they had already put into the then cancelled Titan project. At Blizzcon last year they showed some really interesting footage of how the game came together over the years. The first in-game video comes a little bit after the 24min mark if you want to skip through it.

Comparatively, Reaper of Souls came out in 2014 so I think it's fair to say we should be expecting the next mainline Diablo release soon enough.

Oh i know they take their time, im glad they do, but they usually tease us along the way. Which they havent even started doing, so the current 5 year wait could very well start being stretched much further :eek::pac:

Think its safe to say, it will be another year wait to blizzcon before they may reveal any other Diablo news

johnny_ultimate

nix wrote: »

They do understand that, they are mad thats all they have been doing for the last 5 years :pac:

Well, they’ve overtly said there are more Diablo projects in development - and said as much before this controversy - so I think it’s fair to say there is work on a new ‘core’ Diablo going on.

And remember... Diablo 3 was, what, almost a decade in development before release? It had substantial content released in 2014. Assuming that work on Diablo 4 is well underway, we could still be a good few years away from release. Big games and sequels are routinely in development for the best part of a decade these days... not all, but it’s clear Blizzard take their time with these things more than many others :pac:

Personally, I’m not a fan of the big, extended PR campaigns around games. I’d rather a developer just reveal the thing when it’s ready to be revealed. I mean, it’s nice to know Metroid Prime 4 is in development... but we’ve only seen a logo presented in a highly corporate setting, which is **** all to be frank. Sure, it gets fans excited... but I love it when Nintendo reveal something like Mario Odyssey and have the thing ready to go like less than a year later. The wait is less painful.

Development is long and complicated - particularly for the developers who have the luxury to take their time (Blizzard, Valve, Naughty Dog, Rockstar, Nintendo etc etc). I know people want a Diablo 4... but equally I’m sure no-one wants them to **** out a half-baked sequel just to meet consumer demand. It’ll come in good time, and hopefully be the better for it

nix

johnny_ultimate wrote: »

Well, they’ve overtly said there are more Diablo projects in development - and said as much before this controversy - so I think it’s fair to say there is work on a new ‘core’ Diablo going on.

And remember... Diablo 3 was, what, almost a decade in development before release? It had substantial content released in 2014. Assuming that work on Diablo 4 is well underway, we could still be a good few years away from release. Big games and sequels are routinely in development for the best part of a decade these days... not all, but it’s clear Blizzard take their time with these things more than many others :pac:

Personally, I’m not a fan of the big, extended PR campaigns around games. I’d rather a developer just reveal the thing when it’s ready to be revealed. I mean, it’s nice to know Metroid Prime 4 is in development... but we’ve only seen a logo presented in a highly corporate setting, which is **** all to be frank. Sure, it gets fans excited... but I love it when Nintendo reveal something like Mario Odyssey and have the thing ready to go like less than a year later. The wait is less painful.

Development is long and complicated - particularly for the developers who have the luxury to take their time (Blizzard, Valve, Naughty Dog, Rockstar, Nintendo etc etc). I know people want a Diablo 4... but equally I’m sure no-one wants them to **** out a half-baked sequel just to meet consumer demand. It’ll come in good time, and hopefully be the better for it

Yeah but the "Diablo projects" they are working on could just as likely be them remastering Diablo 1 and 2 and then bringing those remasters to console. So that vague notion of planning doesnt really tell us if they are in fact working on new content. Which i think is all the pissed off Diablo fan base is really pining for, not the release of the game, but just the confirmation that its been done, which is understandable in this day and age of gaming development.

I myself have all the time in the world, i have too many games to catch up on as it is :pac:

Former Diablo 2 producer stating what everyone already knows

https://ie.ign.com/articles/2018/11/05/diablo-2-producer-blizzard-doesnt-understand-gamers-anymore

gizmo

Fred The Red wrote: »

Former Diablo 2 producer stating what everyone already knows

https://ie.ign.com/articles/2018/11/05/diablo-2-producer-blizzard-doesnt-understand-gamers-anymore

Except Kern is, as per usual, full of ****.

The decision to enter the Chinese and even Mobile market wouldn't have come from Blizzard itself, it would have come from those above it. Even then, of the two people at the top of the company, one is one of the co-founders and the other has been in the industry for nearly 25 years and has worked his way up from QA. You don't do that unless you have a slight love of games, so the accusation that it isn't "made up of hard core gamers from top to bottom" anymore is nonsense. Blizzard also didn't say "now" they're working on multiple Diablo projects, they said it three weeks ago, here. And there wasn't a toxic gamer issue? Try taking a look at Wyatt Cheng's Twitter after the announcement, the people wanting folk fired over it and the project itself cancelled after the fact.

So no, Fred. He's not stating what everyone knows, he's pandering to people who think they know. There's plenty to criticise about the announcement without needing to make stuff up to do it.

EDIT: Unsurprisingly, there's also probably more to it. Jason Schreier, who has a knack for actually talking to devs, reported that there was actually an announcement for Diablo 4 pulled before BlizzCon. Blizzard themselves have since refuted it, however, there was this rather interesting tweet from the Diablo Community Manager also before the Convention which makes the situation even more intriguing.

Maxpfizer

Benzino wrote: »

I find it odd that people can't understand they are trying to reach a new audience.

Is the "new" audience for Diablo really there though?

I would think that if the loss of faith and goodwill from their existing audience outweighs the potential gains from the new audience then it's kind of not worth it long term.

I'd like to see how attempts to reach a new audience or to make things more accessible actually translate into success.

For sure there are billions of untapped dollars in the mobile market and obviously that's the driving factor behind reaching out to a new audience.

I don't think we should pretend that there isn't some kind of relationship between creators and their audience though.

Just the fact that they were able to gather such a huge crowd for the mere announcement of a game says a lot.

So look at it this way. They've gathered around their biggest fans into this hall or theater or whatever. Their existing audience.

Then the message is "guys, great news, we are trying to reach a new audience".

I think it's easy to see why the people gathered would be thinking "WTF?"