Minnesota Vikings????

kennyb3

Hulk Hands wrote: »

Thought yesterday was positive overall. The Chiefs are a good side and they were destroyed, the margin of victory didn't reflect the game whatsoever. Our D, without one of its most important components in Griffen, stuffed the Chiefs.

I really don't think they are. Even with Charles they were average and without him they are well below average. Smith has been very jittery this year and pulling it down way too early.

As i predicted on last page of this thread, we (the bears) would give them a good game and you should beat them comfortably. We beat them at arrowhead. The scored 10 offensive points, 0 in the second half.

I only saw your game on redzone so can't comment on it. Just wanted to point out your way overrating Kansas city. They've talent on defence but it hasn't turned up fully this year but their offence is pure awful right now.

Hulk Hands

Chiefs went off 5 point underdogs in Lambeau field, favs against the Broncos and 3 point underdogs against a team off a bye yesterday. The markets rate them as a very good team. I'd say they're in the 12-18 range, which is average I suppose when you think about it

Magico Gonzalez

Re Norv: Some of the play calling this week was pretty off. Hand offs to Peterson out of the shotgun which never ends well, running him into a brick wall all day. Sometimes looking for creative solutions ignores the obvious more pragmatic ways to win. Maybe it's more of a case that we are not really in shape for a Norv Turner offence. I'd like to see us get the basics down, I'd like to see more of Asiata too and less of Mckinnon. If the qb isnt firing on all cylinders lets focus on what he is doing well, if the rush blocking isn't in great shape then lets not run into brick walls with hand offs out of the shotgun. I dunno...I just don't see the players we have are in tune with the Norv offence.

D9Male

I read somewhere that AP ranks very lowly among NFL starting running backs this season on overall play (includes blocking, receiving, fumbles, etc.). It was before Week 6, but I doubt his ranking has improved much after yesterday.

Magico Gonzalez

D9Male wrote: »

I read somewhere that AP ranks very lowly among NFL starting running backs this season on overall play (includes blocking, receiving, fumbles, etc.). It was before Week 6, but I doubt his ranking has improved much after yesterday.

I dont know that those overall stats matter too much, he'll make big plays when he has the chance. Was he ever a good blocker? He's always been fairly poor there, same with the hands, there is always the chance one will pop loose. Those are things you can trade off for the big plays.

We're a better team with him in there, but we need to use him correctly.

kennyb3

Hulk Hands wrote: »

Chiefs went off 5 point underdogs in Lambeau field, favs against the Broncos and 3 point underdogs against a team off a bye yesterday. The markets rate them as a very good team. I'd say they're in the 12-18 range, which is average I suppose when you think about it

Yep and 10 points favs versus bears - all of which were wrong. They are being rated on last years team imho and the fact they are seen as tough and competitive. Special teams not as good as last year, defence not as good and offence just awful.

So far they've beaten the mighty Texans by 7 points. Again the bears are a 4-12 / 5-11 team and they put up 10 offensive points all game.

Magico Gonzalez

Can we beat the teams we're "supposed" to beat? A win against the Lions would be huge, 4-2 would be excellent.

Magico Gonzalez

4-2 it is, lions came out of the traps quickest but we figured them out and shut them down. Huge days from kendricks, diggs and a 300+ from teddy bridgewater.

Hulk Hands

BW is good again, wheyhey! Twitter is great fun during Vikings games I must say, some amount of vocal idiots

Not sure where the D was first Q but when they play like they did the rest of the game, legitimate top 5 group. Diggs looks a godsend. Entire wr corps looks nice now, 4 guys to come in and out, all of them comfortable outside or in the slot. Wish we'd go deep a little more, as with the Diggs TD today. Some amount of speed in that group. Rudolph too finally again showing the talent he flashed a few years back. Oline and safety across from Harrison still a mess, but the rests all looking very solid.

Just looking at the schedule, there's one slight upside to the Packers if they keep winning. We have them week 17, and if they have the no.1 seed sown up (a win vs Carolina will do it for them prob), then we'll likely be facing their backs ups. For us, likely to be an 8-9-10 win team bordering a wildcard spot, that could be huge. What looks like toughest game on the schedule could become very winnable

Magico Gonzalez

Hulk Hands wrote: »

BW is good again, wheyhey! Twitter is great fun during Vikings games I must say, some amount of vocal idiots

Not sure where the D was first Q but when they play like they did the rest of the game, legitimate top 5 group. Diggs looks a godsend. Entire wr corps looks nice now, 4 guys to come in and out, all of them comfortable outside or in the slot. Wish we'd go deep a little more, as with the Diggs TD today. Some amount of speed in that group. Rudolph too finally again showing the talent he flashed a few years back. Oline and safety across from Harrison still a mess, but the rests all looking very solid.

Just looking at the schedule, there's one slight upside to the Packers if they keep winning. We have them week 17, and if they have the no.1 seed sown up (a win vs Carolina will do it for them prob), then we'll likely be facing their backs ups. For us, likely to be an 8-9-10 win team bordering a wildcard spot, that could be huge. What looks like toughest game on the schedule could become very winnable

The vikings reddit thread usually goes into meltdown during the games.

Bears up next, another div win would be rocket fuel for our season.

D9Male

Great stuff. Really enjoyed the way we got to grips with the Lions offence. And kept steady on offence. Good game by Teddy, but I am not breaking out the champagne yet. Lots of QB's this season are going to look tip-top vs. the Lions.

Actually, a great game by Teddy. He did very little wrong. But I want to see it again and again.

I think 9-7 might get us a wild card, and it is achievable.

Actually, it should be the base aim for the season.

yorlum11

Yeah pretty good all round by the Vikes. We need to start quicker in games and put a few points on the board. Not gonna be playing the Lions every week. Also need Peterson 100+ yards per game. Skol Vikings!!!

Magico Gonzalez

yorlum11 wrote: »

Yeah pretty good all round by the Vikes. We need to start quicker in games and put a few points on the board. Not gonna be playing the Lions every week. Also need Peterson 100+ yards per game. Skol Vikings!!!

I dont mind when they score but we need to up that conversion rate in the red zone.

I suppose you'd need an OL to get that done.

D9Male

OL is poor, but looking at possible playoff contenders (Seahawks, Broncos, Packers, Giants, Eagles) we are not off the charts bad. Lots of bad lines there.

Magico Gonzalez

D9Male wrote: »

OL is poor, but looking at possible playoff contenders (Seahawks, Broncos, Packers, Giants, Eagles) we are not off the charts bad. Lots of bad lines there.

Not at all those have a 2nd year rookie QB in there.

Also, if you look at the Football Outsider OL stats, we are in the bottom bracket of run and pass blocking teams. Not many other playoff hopefuls that are in both those categories.

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/ol

Seattle's run blocking is pretty good, there pass blocking is poor but Wilson is pretty mobile.

Packers are mid table for pass blocking and frankly that's all that Rogers needs. Any more and you'd be spoiling him.

Giants have good pass protection, when their WR core gets back off IR then they are a serious threat in the air.

Even the Eagles, league worst at Run blocking as per Football Outsiders system have decent pass protection but I don't want to use the Eagles as a yardstick.

In fairness, i don't the run blocking is all the OL, would be nice to see Norv use Zach Line to block for AP but he won't go for it. Being in or near the bottom of these rankings really hampers the amount of plays Norv can call. Diggs, TB and AP are really keeping us in the race here. Stopping one of the 3 makes life tough, getting at 2 of that 3 and we're looking at lost games.

D9Male

Interesting post. I was just judging OL's of other teams by highlights and condensed games. Those stats give me a better perspective. I was using my list of teams as a positive. If those teams can perform with modest OL's, we are not an outlier. Having offensive playmakers is nice, too.

Hulk Hands

I love it, ****ing love it!! What a sweet way to finally win in Chi

D9Male

Great stuff. Watched Red Zone yesterday, so only just caught up on the game fully.

Three great plays on the equalising drive. The run from Teddy to get the first down in our own half was very, very clever. Then he lofted it up to Diggs, who made a great catch. Risky throw, but it was the time for a risky throw. However, the catch was brilliant. Then the TD was a great throw, and great yards after catch from Diggs.

Scruffy game overall. But everything went right with those final two drives and Chicago's drop on their final drive.

We are really in the hunt for a wild card now. A Packers implosion would be ideal, mind you. But looking at our games, the schedule is not that hard. Not easy, mind you, but 5 wins is possible.

Magico Gonzalez

Charles Johnson got Bridgewater out of jail with that catch, not a well placed throw. Risky!

Great win, but TB was not great, he finished really strongly but he was pretty average for most of the game. If he had a better day, picks out Mike Wallace when he was open for TDs then we win that more comfortably. Not sure what's going on in the Bears thread but our OL had them in hand, AP was dominating on the ground so I feel like we had the chance to get after what looks like a fairly flakey Bears 2ndary.

We wont have it so easy against Todd Gurley and the Rams nor the Raiders.

Bears suck, we win!

D9Male

I agree that Teddy was bad in the first half. Missed more than one open receiver.

And most of his big plays were 50/50 balls from which Diggs and Wallace made good catches. But all the same, he did a good job.

Gurley is a huge worry alright. His highlights reel looks very good and he is setting rookie records for both the franchise and the league.

But their passing offence is terrible, and given home advantage, I am more confident about this game than I was about yesterday. Vikings by a score. Amazing to think we could top our division by this time next week.

kennyb3

Magico Gonzalez wrote: »

Charles Johnson got Bridgewater out of jail with that catch, not a well placed throw. Risky!

Great win, but TB was not great, he finished really strongly but he was pretty average for most of the game. If he had a better day, picks out Mike Wallace when he was open for TDs then we win that more comfortably. Not sure what's going on in the Bears thread but our OL had them in hand, AP was dominating on the ground so I feel like we had the chance to get after what looks like a fairly flakey Bears 2ndary.

We wont have it so easy against Todd Gurley and the Rams nor the Raiders.

Bears suck, we win!

I think there was just some overreaction there. In a way we (Bears) threw away the game twice (the Langford drop and then Rolle not picking off that pass - or at very least knocking it away). Overall it was just a closely contested game that could of went either way.

Our defence is poor, especially the secondary (Amos aside). It's McPhee rushing the passer himself.

In that context I thought it was a poor enough performance from the Vikes. We compete but aren't very good overall. We've some nice players like Jeffrey & McPhee but too many truly awful ones.

D9Male wrote: »

I agree that Teddy was bad in the first half. Missed more than one open receiver.

And most of his big plays were 50/50 balls from which Diggs and Wallace made good catches. But all the same, he did a good job.

Good job? Come off it - he was poor - threw a terrible interception, should have been a 2nd one at the end with against any decent secondary. Missed open receivers and couldn't taken advantage of an awful secondary that's been exposed all year.

D9Male wrote: »

Gurley is a huge worry alright. His highlights reel looks very good and he is setting rookie records for both the franchise and the league.

But their passing offence is terrible, and given home advantage, I am more confident about this game than I was about yesterday. Vikings by a score.

I wouldn't worry so much about their offence as their defence, which is 2nd probably only to the Broncos for me. They could eat TB alive and have him running all night.

D9Male wrote: »

Amazing to think we could top our division by this time next week.

I know you're feeling optimistic after the win (as shown by the Bridgewater comments) but the Packers are best priced 1/12 for the division.

Magico Gonzalez

Kalil was pretty good again too.

Sendejo is a joke at this though. I can't see why Exum doesnt get a shot, or someone else.

Magico Gonzalez

ps..I dont think anyone is talking about winning the division, just that there is a small chance that in the short term we could top it.

I still think the best we can shoot for is 9-7 this year and a playoff spot. I'm ok with that, we're way ahead of the bears and lions in terms of our development. If we can get the run blocking into some sort of shape i'm not too worried about pass protection although I''m not optimistic we're going to be able to do much about it in the short term. Teddy is still a 2nd year QB and to be honest he's playing like one at times. I have no issues with that, it's a curve and he shows enough potential to be a franchise QB. So long as he keeps developing we stick with him. I would like to see someone play safety with Smith because thats costing us right now, Sendejo is terrible.

D9Male

I don't think it was Teddy's best game. In fact his performance had more holes than the Giants' secondary. And I am probably more bearish (fnarrr) than the rest of the lads on this thread when it comes to TB. But when it came down to it he made some big plays in the final. We have had our share of injuries this season, but we have a few offensive weapons now, and a Top 10 defence.

Of course I don't think we will win the division. That would require a Pack melt down. But it is possible we could be top this time next week.

We are one of the form teams in the NFL. Since the opening weekend, we are 5-1, with the loss by just a field goal to the 7-0 Broncos in Denver. We have a winnable slate of games remaining and things are looking up.

I can still see things going horribly wrong for us. But if you can't have a bit of hope when you're team is 5-2 when can you?

Hulk Hands

After the emotion of yesterday, can reflect a bit now. Comfortably the second worst performance of the season behind the SF game. I thought TB was garbage tbh. He did have games like that last year though where he was insanely poor at times, and always bounced back. I'll give him a pass. One thing about him is, he does give me confidence when the games on the line in 4 down territory. He generally seems to get it done in those scenario's, and that's a refreshing change from the Ponder era.

Defensive line was crap also. I think Shariff Floyd's probably a lot better player than most of us have realised. Just seems to be a lot less disruption when he's out. Griffen was in and out with injuries so another pass i suppose, they have been good this year in fairness. The Alshon Jeffrey stuff annoyed me no end. Rhodes shouldve been following him constantly for starters. Newman is a great addition but he doesnt have the skillset or physicality for someone as good as Jeffrey. Secondly its time for Rhodes to pull the finger out this year. He was beaten too much when he was covering AJ. Sandejo's muck but I think Exum wouldve got his chance by now if he could play. I wonder could Newman be converted into that spot on plays we need the 2 safeties and play Munnerlyn or Josh or even Waynes outside. Newman would surely have the savvy. I'm hoping Zimmer realises it's a problem though and changes things. It's a pity we can't play more 1 safety set but you're taking so much from Smith's game by making him hang back there.

On the plus, Blair Walsh is back, as is Kalil. Sherels is a little legend, Diggs is brilliant and Harrison is a god. Looking forward to the Rams, should be a classic close hard fought contest

Magico Gonzalez

I wonder if we can get a safety or some help on the O Line for Cordarelle Patterson.

He's done for us, I think he might raise his level for another team but for whatever reason it aint happening for him at the Vikings. Not sure how much of a draw he would be, hoping someone might take a punt on him.

Magico Gonzalez

...or maybe we'll do nothing! Trade deadline come and gone.

D9Male

Very tough game to call Sunday.

I think Rams offence versus our defence is a close call. IF we can stop Gurley, we should have the advantage, but that is a bit if. The Rams are useless through the air, so I think if we can do what none of the Rams' last four opponents has done (keep Gurley in check), we have a right chance.

It is our offence versus their defence that intrigues me. Sure they have some absolute beasts. But i am starting to get a little bit more optimistic that our offence is more varied now and that we will be able to move it through the air and via AP. We might be able to get more done with the ball than the Rams do.

I go for a win by a a few points, Field goal in the dying seconds preferably after a Teddy-led drive as the teams are tied at 13-13.

Magico Gonzalez

D9Male wrote: »

Very tough game to call Sunday.

I think Rams offence versus our defence is a close call. IF we can stop Gurley, we should have the advantage, but that is a bit if. The Rams are useless through the air, so I think if we can do what none of the Rams' last four opponents has done (keep Gurley in check), we have a right chance.

It is our offence versus their defence that intrigues me. Sure they have some absolute beasts. But i am starting to get a little bit more optimistic that our offence is more varied now and that we will be able to move it through the air and via AP. We might be able to get more done with the ball than the Rams do.

I go for a win by a a few points, Field goal in the dying seconds preferably after a Teddy-led drive as the teams are tied at 13-13.

I'll take another low scoring single TD or FG win any day! This and the Raiders game are the 2 games that can really shape our season, win both and we look good for some sort of playoff action, lose both and probably not. A 1-1 split and we'll need to turnover a few big teams that we might not have felt to confident about.

D9Male

Our schedule so far has been p1ss easy.

The rest of the schedule is very tough.

You're right. If we win those two games, we are 7-2, and I would say long odds on for a wild card.