Minnesota Vikings????

Joshua Jones

WTF?. I used to follow the NFL back in the early ninties when they showed it on C4. Loved watching the highlights of all the games. Supported the Vikings, Moon and Carter tearing it up. What happened?. How long have they been terrible?.

spank_inferno

Not long.

They were very very good 2 seasons ago, and traded haymakers with the Saints in a terrific NFC championchip game.

IIRC that was the end of Favre at the Vikings, the following season it didnt go so well.

As a packers fan I've never taken them for granted, I've seen them kick our ass too much

Joshua Jones

Its funny you mention the packers, the first live game I saw in over a decade was about a month ago on C4 late. Rothlesburger(or however you spell his name) ran the show. 6"4 and the feet of a ballerina lol. Loved seeing your man Danny from "Under the moon" presenting it. That American co comm would be great at an NFL quiz night.

Think the viks were 1-11 when I saw that game, nearly spat out me lemsip.

Paully D

The best thing about the NFL is that the draft system means they likely won't be terrible for long.

Joshua Jones

Paully D wrote: »

The best thing about the NFL is that the draft system means they likely won't be terrible for long.

How does it work?. Is it the worst teams get first draft pick or something?. Do the players not geta choice where to go?.

UnitedIrishman

Joshua Jones wrote: »

How does it work?. Is it the worst teams get first draft pick or something?. Do the players not geta choice where to go?.

Yep. Worst teams first so the Vikings will pick up a top college player this coming draft. Looks like it'll be someone like Kalil (who will help protect the QB). They weren't as bad as the record showed this year. Donovan McNabb was pretty terrible until midway through the season they decided to replace him with rookie Christian Ponder who done pretty well. Only lost their games by a couple of scores and they'll be stronger again next year IMO.

Players don't really get a choice but there's certain very rare cases where the player will refuse to play for a certain team (Eli and the Chargers for instance).

FreeOSCAR

Plus they are playing in a pretty poxy division with Rodgers Stafford and to a lesser extent Cutler. They will be doing well to get near the playoffs over the next couple of seasons.

Their best offensive player Adrian Peterson had a pretty bad cruciate ligament tear on week 16 so it's really unknown at what level he will come back at next year.

Kalil will be a great choice and a step in the right direction but for me they will be drafting around that same spot again next year. And maybe even for another QB

Hulk Hands

Like someone said, 2 years ago they were up there with the best in the league. Don't pay too much attention to the 3-13 record. They are nowhere near that bad. They lost most of their games this year by less than a touchdown, and a series of crucial injuries cost them a lot.

Basically the team at the moment has 2 critical areas which they are desperate in. In offence, it's the offensive line. They have the worst OL in the league. The one player who actually had the ability to be a decent player, was cut at the start of the year because he's a fat lazy slob. The rest are a mix of players with decent ability but a lack of dedication and ambition, and a couple with just a plain lack of ability. This part of the team handicaps the offence.

They have drafted a new QB, who despite what some who haven't paid close attention to him have said, has shown flashes of brilliance. He was apparently drafted too high, which some uneducated folk will always hold against him. He won the starter job about half way through this season, and has since combined the sublime with the downright terrible. Still, I would rather a rookie that made mistakes yet showed flashes of brilliance, than one who did things right yet looked distinctly average. The jury's still out, but there are promising signs for Ponders future. He has had a tough time because of the ridiculous OL he has played behind.

Behind him is the best running back in football, Adrian Peterson. He is another player handicapped by the terrible OL. Despite every fan agreeing that he is a far better player than when he was a rookie 5 years ago, he is still putting up similar numbers. While they are good, they are nowhere near what he should be averaging. Sometimes Vikings fans contemplate what AP could achieve behind a good OL like the Texans. Up on 2000 yards a season is no exaggeration, yet we will never find out unless the Vikes fix the OL.

In defence the secondary is the problem. It consists of a very good but old antoine winfield who was injured for the second half of the year, a moderately talented Chris cook who is more interested in breaking the law than football, and a bunch of scrubs who have no place in the NFL. While the Vikings have a very good pass rush (Jared Allen arguably the best DE in the league, robinson, Williams and Greenway excellent pros), their terrible secondary has let them down time and time again. They are good versus the run but terrible versus the pass. In a division with 3 excellent passing QBs, it's suicide.

For the future? Well get them 2 components sorted out and you honestly have a good playoff team. However, those 2 areas are so bad that it might take a couple of successful drafts to sort them. They may also need one good WR. No matter how Ponder turns out, AP is good enough to carry this offence, even in this pass happy league. However, the OL will need serious upgrades to give him some help. This team is also never gonna survive in their division without sorting the secondary. If AP, Allen, Greenway and Robinson are still playing to a high level in a couple of years, then this team will go places. But the next couple of drafts are crucially important

Joshua Jones

Must try and keep a closer eye on them next year, they've the best jersey in the league anyway so that's one thing I suppose lol.

Is the draft open to abuse like has it been known for a team not going to make post season throwing games to get a better draft pick?. Or is that unheard of.

UnitedIrishman

Joshua Jones wrote: »

Must try and keep a closer eye on them next year, they've the best jersey in the league anyway so that's one thing I suppose lol.

Is the draft open to abuse like has it been known for a team not going to make post season throwing games to get a better draft pick?. Or is that unheard of.

Not particularly because a) the players are playing for their jobs, b) the head coach is trying to keep his job and c) losing games means the fans don't turn up which means loss of money for the franchise. If the player isn't carrying their weight on a 1-15 team then they'll be replaced by someone better in the draft.

Richie90

I've seen plenty of people talking about Ponder. However when he picked up that hip injury Webb got a few snaps. I didn't get to see much of him but from what I saw I thought he looked pretty decent. Any chance that he could overtake Ponder or is there a major gap between them?

Hulk Hands

Richie90 wrote: »

I've seen plenty of people talking about Ponder. However when he picked up that hip injury Webb got a few snaps. I didn't get to see much of him but from what I saw I thought he looked pretty decent. Any chance that he could overtake Ponder or is there a major gap between them?

Webb is a serious athlete and will certainly make it in some respect in the league. I'm not sure it will be as a starting QB though. It's true that he did start to play at a higher level than Ponder down the stretch, but to my mind I think he was simply better suited playing behind the awful OL. He could use his great scrambling ability to get himself out of trouble and make positive plays. But he doesnt really have the accuracy in the passing game at this stage to be a starter. He is a very good option for the odd wildcat play however, and you can even line him up as a WR. Ponder is accurate but is inconsistent so far. As far as head office is concerned though, he's the future.

Joshua Jones

Was reading about Kalil, looks like he gonna go Rams though. Is yer man Claibourne as good?.

And just on the draft. Been hearing you can trade for your draft pick. So the Viks having third puts them in a good bargaining position. How does that work. Say the Giants wanted third pick, what would they offer the Viks. Players or just cash?. Seems like lots of clubs want RG3, what could the Viks expect?.

TaosHum

If the Vikes miss out on Kalil, then they gotta go with Blackmon IMO. I know there secondary is poor and they could do with a CB or S, but Ponder needs weapons and Blackmon is an unbelievable talent.

Hulk Hands

Joshua, a team wanting to trade upwards would offer the other team additional picks, or occasionally players. A likely deal this year would be the Redskins would swap first rounders with the Vikings (3 for 6). As compensation, the Redskins would also give up their 2013 first round pick.

What is likely to happen this year is either the Rams or the Vikings will trade downwards. The other will pick Kalil. Otherwise the Vikings will pick Claibourne or Blackmon. However I think the first scenario is more likely.

Joshua J

So how'd the draft go for the Viks?. Reasons to be optimistic?.

Jasondeans86er

Vikes did alright at the start and made some interesting calls later on in the draft, got Kalil after a great trade from 3rd pick to 4th pick for a few extra later draft picks with the browns then traded back into the 1st round to get a safety Smith with the ravans. got two wrs from the same college so could be interesting here is a full breakdown of the players. http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1165316-minnesota-vikings-2012-draft-assessing-each-draftees-chance-of-making-the-team/page/2 they have gone for the approach of players first rather than personalities they want everyone turning up to play rather than the ego.

Joshua J

I guess people were right saying last years results werent a true reflection on performance. Tried watching a few games only rocky performance was against the Redskins where we missed three red zone possessions in the first quarter but only came away with 9 points. Were poor 2nd and 3rd then rallied fourth but too little too late. Been impressed with Harvin, is he a little under-rated?. Never hear him mentioned much.

Joshua J

So have been trying to catch more games this season and managed to get the last three live. Oh where'd we be with a passing game. We should have the best play action in the league but Ponder has no faith in his WRs, rightly or wrongly. I think it was the recent packers game where Simpson musta dropped at least five catches and our WRs didn't complete till late in the 4th.

In saying that though, Ponder needs to keep hitting them, build their confidence up and get some rhythm, even if they drop then it's on them but we need a threat of a pass. Two redzone picks against the bears (or packers can't rem) few weeks back after AP dragging them up the field, two really bad plays. We miss Harvin too but every team gets injuries so shouldn't be an excuse.

AP has been an absolute animal. I've also been seriously impressed with Harrison Smith, looks like a bright future ahead.

D9Male

So basically I think we all get a feeling for an NFL team by strange routes.

For me, I got a tip on the Vikings to win the NFC back in 2012 at a very big price. I only had a tenner, but they unbelievably made the playoffs after a crazy run from Thanksgiving. I was sitting on a grand if they had navigated the playoffs, but no dice.

Ever since then, I have watched the ups and downs with interest. 2013's win in Wembley was brilliant, but the team always seemed to come out the wrong end of close games. Then last year seemed like nothing happened apart from Bridgewater settling in and Peterson saga.

I thought (pre-draft) that they are in good shape for this year. I think Detroit will struggle relative to last year, but the division is tough, especially if Chicago get their rear in gear.

So do we have any Vikings fans here?
I don't ever watch US college football, so I am relying on newspaper reports to tell me how they drafted. The additions in corner and WR look promising. Anybody got an opinion?
And what is the consensus for next season? I am going with 9-7, with an outside chance of a playoff place if Teddy smashes it.

Hulk Hands

I'm a fan yeah. Funnily enough given your story, I actually backed the to win the NFC at 33s e/w yesterday. They're going to be a very fashionable 'dark horse' choice this year. Its far more than a 3% shot in any case

The draft was more one with the future in mind. The Ponder pick aside, have been loving what Spielman has done in the draft in recent years. I think the team has a small chance of being very very good this year, but will need a of luck with injuries and BW to take a huge step. The defence could be excellent. A solid D line with further improvement from Everson Griffen and Shariff Floyd especially expected. Chad Greenway is a liability at one of the linebacker spots, but if Kendricks can play right away, they can get away with it through nickel formations with Captain Munnerlynn figuring to be a lot better this year back in that favoured role. The leaders of the D will be Anthony Barr who didnt get near enough credit for an insane rookie season. Incredibly excited about him. The excellent Harrison Smith being the other one. Presuming Rhodes keeps improving, a lot will depend on Waynes on the other side. Consensus seems to be that he's very raw and lacks certain coverage skills. You'd have to be optimistic given Zimmer's track record in that regard though. If injuries hold up im confident it'll be a Top 10 defense

Offense will make or break the season though. Im not as high on BW as some (I really like him, but talk of him being a future elite QB is nonsense at this stage), but if he can make a big step forward, and Peterson comes back to 80% of what he has been, and Mike Wallace settles, it could be very exciting. A lot of if's obviously. Wallace and Johnson should stretch the field finally, so would expect a decent year from Kyle Rudolph and hopeful something from Patterson. The worry is obviously the OL. Kalil's in final chance territory and there's no LG at the moment. Really wish they'd try to address that in FA. In the last 6/7 years, the one year we had half decent OL play, Peterson nearly broke the rushing record! If everything comes together, I could honestly envisage a very strong playoff run. Given the youth, lack of depth and general Vikings luck, another 6 win season is far more likely however

Magico Gonzalez

Another fan, spent a year in Minneapolis in the mid 90s, maintained an interest ever since without being particularly knowledgeable about the game. I get my updates from Daily Norseman. Kalil has had knee "maintenance" type surgery again this year, looks to be a busted flush. I'd be wary of how much we'll get out of Peterson but always thought he'd stay with us given his age profile and the fact that he'd attract negative press wherever he went. Goodell has his sites trained on him. If he falls out of line once he's out of the NFL. Would love to see us get to 9-7, breaking the .500 mark. Anything below 8-8 would be poor enough. Regardless of how good Teddy is or is not, if we lost him for a run of games we'd be in some hot water!

D9Male

Thanks lads, interesting points both.

I will try to keep a bit of an interest in this thread for the coming season. Beats all the chatter about the Pats and the Boys.

nasty_crash

whilst im a packers fan i have a soft spot for the vikes - met Rudolph, Smith and Sullivan in Croke park a couple of years back and i have to say they were awesome guys and i have liked them ever since.

I liked Vikes draft - they actually got some great value. Waynes has the potential to be an elite corner - and given Zimmers rep with training Corners he could be excellent playing along side rhodes. Kendericks was a top 3 ILB in the draft - to take him in the second round @ 13 was great - considering he was mocked at going end of round 1 with some. I think he could start on week 1 if he progresses fast enough replacing Greenway - who like AJ Hawk ex Packers has lost something over the last few seasons.

TJ Clemmings could be their pick of the draft - in the 4th - whilst there is medical issues im sure that they have done their research and he could be a huge player for them over the next 5-10 years.

Pairing those picks with the roster already there - with Peterson coming off a rest year (regardless of issues he must be itching to play - even at 30 with a full year off he will be refreshed and his body should be in a good place) - i would expect vikes to challenge for playoffs - looking at the schedule they have its quiet tough this year... 49ers, Cardinals, Falcons, Broncos all away - I think a great season would be 8-8 or 9-7 - but that will mean some big wins at home to push them to the playoffs

Vikings

nasty_crash wrote: »

whilst im a packers fan i have a soft spot for the vikes - met Rudolph, Smith and Sullivan in Croke park a couple of years back and i have to say they were awesome guys and i have liked them ever since.

I got a signed football from Sully that day.. good times! Asked them what they thought of the Jennings signing, that didn't last too long.

I think a lot of our success this year will depend on how AP gets back into things. An on form Adrian will relieve pressure from Teddy and allow him to develop without trying to carry the team on his back - hugely important for his and this teams future.

I'm a big Zimmer fan now, he's making all the right moves for me. The only area I'm concerned about is our OL. Kalil looked disinterested at best last year, and this year will be critical for his future in the NFL. He has a $6m cap hit this year that shoots to $11m in 2016. If he busts again this season (last season he was a bust) he likely won't finish out his contract here - and will find it hard to pick up a pay day elsewhere. With that in mind I have some hope there he will turn things around. Fusco signed a nice deal last season and got injured early on and missed most of the season.

If Fusco and Kalil come back on track and AP is his usual self we will challenge for the division.

Hulk Hands

Sceptical at first but love Zimmer now. Thought he might be some hard nosed old style coach, good motivator and no bs but lacking tactically and in innovation. However as you can see from Rhodes, Griffen and even Josh Robinson this past year, he an amazing developer of defensive players. The D was quietly competent last year and should make a big step up with the new pieces. Hopefully Norv can develop the offense the same way

Magico Gonzalez

Vikings wrote: »

I got a signed football from Sully that day.. good times! Asked them what they thought of the Jennings signing, that didn't last too long.

I think a lot of our success this year will depend on how AP gets back into things. An on form Adrian will relieve pressure from Teddy and allow him to develop without trying to carry the team on his back - hugely important for his and this teams future.

I'm a big Zimmer fan now, he's making all the right moves for me. The only area I'm concerned about is our OL. Kalil looked disinterested at best last year, and this year will be critical for his future in the NFL. He has a $6m cap hit this year that shoots to $11m in 2016. If he busts again this season (last season he was a bust) he likely won't finish out his contract here - and will find it hard to pick up a pay day elsewhere. With that in mind I have some hope there he will turn things around. Fusco signed a nice deal last season and got injured early on and missed most of the season.

If Fusco and Kalil come back on track and AP is his usual self we will challenge for the division.

I worry with Kalil that the knees are troubling him more than we know, had some sort of maintenance procedure the last 2 off seasons. OL is the worry anyway.

wonder if that giant polish guy (aiyegbuse?) will get special teams minutes. Some unit!

D9Male

AP is angling for a trade. Interesting times.

Magico Gonzalez

D9Male wrote: »

AP is angling for a trade. Interesting times.

Staying away from the OTAs, hardly a surprise and he can live with losing out on the money.

I still can't see anyone taking the risk on him, not sure he has made enough apologetic "I'm learning" noises, his knees and (for a rb) age count against him but then again it's AP. What position would we trade for? O Line?

D9Male

Has to be oline to protect Ted.

Magico Gonzalez

D9Male wrote: »

Has to be oline to protect Ted.

I'd nearly be looking for a starter and a solid prospect!

Magico Gonzalez

AP coming back to train this week in the OTAs. Agent Dogra will cop all the blame for the trade / leaving / retiring talk. As predicted, he'll be back in purple.

""I'm returning because I want to. I'm a part of this football team and I owe it to the guys I play with and to our coaches, I was planning on coming in this week, and I'm looking forward to getting back on the field. It's what I love to do."

One problem resolved, season probably still hinges on whether someone can step up and protect young TB.

D9Male

I think if they run the ball well, he will get the extra half a second on passing plays to enable him to excel.

Whether he does or not is a different kettle of ball games.

Itssoeasy

Magico Gonzalez wrote: »

AP coming back to train this week in the OTAs. Agent Dogra will cop all the blame for the trade / leaving / retiring talk. As predicted, he'll be back in purple.

""I'm returning because I want to. I'm a part of this football team and I owe it to the guys I play with and to our coaches, I was planning on coming in this week, and I'm looking forward to getting back on the field. It's what I love to do."

One problem resolved, season probably still hinges on whether someone can step up and protect young TB.

well he wasn't going anywhere else regardless of what he or his agent said.

Paully D

D9Male wrote: »

I think if they run the ball well, he will get the extra half a second on passing plays to enable him to excel.

Whether he does or not is a different kettle of ball games.

He will, he's going to be superb.

nasty_crash

tell you what... mike zimmer must be a legend! AP back is gonna be huge! All ye need is for the Oline to step up!! having AP in the backfield will keep the defense honest - and set them up as a run first team - giving teddy time on the ball - and wallace and patterson time to streak downfield

Could be playoff bound.....

Jasondeans86er

The Folks over at Last word on sports are doing a Mount Rushmore series for every NFL team. They just published the Vikings Mount Rushmore
http://lastwordonsports.com/2015/06/12/minnesota-vikings-mount-rushmore/

Do you guys agree? Who would you have

D9Male

So are we still optimistic? Zimmer is now 5-0 in pre-season games.

Seems like the off-season noises around Teddy and Peterson couldn't be better. Both of them look like they are fit enough and motivated enough to have good seasons.

I didn't see the game, but it sounds like Waynes did little to dispel the bad buzz around him in training camp.

Barr getting fit before Week 1 is crucial.

Any other thoughts?

Hulk Hands

I think Waynes will be ok. One blown coverage last night, but the rest we're good plays, he just made inexperienced mistakes to draw flags, stuff he's used to getting away with. Terrance Newman has been excellent in camp anyway so between him and Munnerlyn in the slot, hopefully Waynes wont have to see the field much in any case this year. Barr's a bit of a concern, need him certainly. Diggs looks a very exciting player, wouldnt be surprised to see him leapfrog Patterson in the pecking order

D9Male

Loadholt injury is not good news. Not good at all.

Just saw the highlights of the game against the Bucs. Nice to see some of Bridgwater's throws. Particularly while on the move.

Magico Gonzalez

A lot of pressure on Clemmings. I dunno, we'd have to pay a lot of money for Mathis who is really a guard to come in and play OT. I don't think zimmer or the owners will go for it, think they are gonna trust clemmings and whoever else is behind him on the depth chart.

It's a worry, but if Clemmings comes good we're OK. Big if !...

Loadholt is probably done at this stage having fought his way back from injury. Tough one for him to swallow.

Pre-season games are a minefield. results mean nothing when key guys are lost for the season.

nasty_crash

Clemmings was tracked as first round potential until he got a foot injury.... i think he will be a very capable replacement... its not like loadholt was elite! Its gonna be a bit of a change but i think will make a better line!

Magico Gonzalez

nasty_crash wrote: »

Clemmings was tracked as first round potential until he got a foot injury.... i think he will be a very capable replacement... its not like loadholt was elite! Its gonna be a bit of a change but i think will make a better line!

Loadholt would have been solid, right now we can only hope that a rookie lives up to his potential and that we were right that the stress fracture in his foot wont cause an issue.

It also exposes us to a serious issue if clemmings got hurt. He cant play every down on offence either. Given that we have question marks over Kalil and another rookie as back up to Clemmings (Austin shepherd) I'm nervous alright!


Maybe babatunde gets a practice squad spot after all....at RT.

Hulk Hands

I assume Brandon Fusco could do a job there, but they moved him over to LG in the first place because they thought Kalil needed help and nothing Kalil has done since has eased those worries. It's hard times alright, was the weakest area of the team to begin with

nasty_crash

the whole line will improve if kalil plays well! And he knows he has to with him playing the 4th year of his contract! I still think with the speed that vikes play - with ap back - and the screen passes that teddy likes he will have enough time in the pocket! But imagine if he got a bit more time with wallace going deep it could make for a savage season!

Point to note from the 2 vikes pre season games - Rudolph looks strong - and could thrive under turners offence!

Magico Gonzalez

Lets see what kind of workout Khalil Mack gives Kalil. Will be interesting.

Hulk Hands

Until Rudolph gets injured. Rudolph will have an amazing year if he ever stays healthy, seriously talented tight end, although lacking the flat out speed to be at the very top. I think ive given up on Patterson as a receiver. Will be disappointed if Diggs can't bypass him to WR4 at some stage. Wright has the slot receiver position wrapped up id imagine going on camp and pre season so far

Magico Gonzalez

Patterson looks to be a busted flush. If the coach goes and gets you extra help and you turn it down, you better have some sort of incredible camp. By all accounts, he didn't. Far from it.

nasty_crash

They can just write off patterson - when players like johnson can come in an excel with teddy under centre it makes no sense why patterson isnt doing it! He doesnt remember plays or routes so it must not be that important for him!! Pity cos he is fast!!

Magico Gonzalez

What's going on with Blair Walsh...getting worse and worse. You have to worry about a 2-6 FG record and a missed EP in pre-season.

Reading a few things that Mike Wallace has a bit to do before he convinces anyone, centre John Sullivan missing the last week with a back issue. There's a guy we do not need to be missing for too much time.

I'm definitely starting to get nervy here!

Magico Gonzalez

Patterson looking like he'll be running returns for special teams, I'm ok with that. Prob not time to give up on him at WR just yet but there is enough there not to have to worry about it too much.

Blair Walsh 2 from 3, not bad but the miss was within range. Question marks.

Yankey was pretty bad, which gives me no comfort given that Kalil, decent pre-season aside, is still a worry.