Introduce Non-resident Irish tax base

MadsL

As generation emigration is back, is it time to introduce a tax base to ensure emigrant workers contribute to Irish recovery?

My wife was an emigrant US citizen, now Irish naturalised citizen who continued to file for US taxes during the last ten years as she had some US income and was working in Ireland for which the US IRS wants to know about. Irish emigrants however pay no domestic portion of tax, nor are assessed for foreign income.

Is it time to introduce a small 'contribution tax' on foreign income earned outside the EU?

RichardAnd

No tax without representation. If ever emigrants were charged even a minor tax, they would have to be given full rights to vote in Irish elections an referendums over seas. I believe the US grants this right to its citizens and to attempt to levy tax without such a facility would be wrong.

That being said, I don't think Irish citizens should have to pay tax to the Irish state if they don't reside here. They would already be paying taxes in their adopted country so why should they be burdened with the price of services they can not even use? Perhaps a voluntary system could be set up that would allow an expatriate to vote in exchange for a very minor tax could work but I doubt many would avail of it.

In either case, the logistics would probably be quite complex.

n900guy

How about starting with allowing expatriates to vote like every other civilised country first and treat adult working citizens with respect, instead of trying to keep grabbing cash not just from the dwindling population of workers in Ireland but also those who chose or needed to emigrate.

The US treats it citizens as income generation units, and is the last place we should be emulating.

juan.kerr

Think how many generations we could go back - we could get millions of US citizens into the Irish tax system in one fell swoop.

Maybe tax the emigrants as they leave, like the Germans did in the late 30's.

And what about taxing dead people as well? We could probably dig them up and search the coffins it they refuse to pay.

Mother of God.

Manach

juan.kerr wrote: »

And what about taxing dead people as well? We could probably dig them up and search the coffins it they refuse to pay.

Funny you should mention that, as Spanish civil authorities in a bid to raise revenue are shortening the leases/increasing the levy on graves in certain cities.

ardmacha

Given the litany of excuses in the property tax thread, many people are unwilling to contribute to where they live, never mind where they don't live.

fat__tony

Im an Irish citizen. I consider myself to be a resident of Canada, Im on a 3 yr work permit here with a view to become a permanent resident within the next 18 months.

I work full time, I pay provincial and federal taxes as well as availing of the various public services. I don't live in Ireland,work in Ireland or avail of any of the services in Ireland. The only connection I have with the country is my family.

Why on earth should I have to pay a cent of tax to the Irish government OP?

If you're refering to ex-pats earning tax free salaries in the middle east then perhaps there is a good case to be argued but for someone like me? Absolutely ridiculous.

ArmaniJeanss

fat__tony wrote: »

Im an Irish citizen. I consider myself to be a resident of Canada, Im on a 3 yr work permit here with a view to become a permanent resident within the next 18 months.

I work full time, I pay provincial and federal taxes as well as availing of the various public services. I don't live in Ireland,work in Ireland or avail of any of the services in Ireland. The only connection I have with the country is my family.

Why on earth should I have to pay a cent of tax to the Irish government OP?

Well, the (very thin) logic would be that you still continue to receive the benefts of being an Irish citizen; the passport, not needing a Visa to visit certain countries, use of consular facilities, the ability to come back here any time and be able to legally work straight away.

So therefore you should continue to pay some nominal tax to us, or else you should rescind the benefits you are getting.

fat__tony

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

Well, the (very thin) logic would be that you still continue to receive the benefts of being an Irish citizen; the passport, not needing a Visa to visit certain countries, use of consular facilities, the ability to come back here any time and be able to legally work straight away.

So therefore you should continue to pay some nominal tax to us, or else you should rescind the benefits you are getting.

That really is stretching it to be honest but if it ever came to that then Id give up my passport and citzenship, (once I've obtained canadian citizenship of course). I have zero interest in returning to Ireland to work again, period.

I doubt if it will ever come to pass though. I think it's a ridiculous suggestion.

n900guy

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

Well, the (very thin) logic would be that you still continue to receive the benefts of being an Irish citizen; the passport, not needing a Visa to visit certain countries, use of consular facilities, the ability to come back here any time and be able to legally work straight away.

So therefore you should continue to pay some nominal tax to us, or else you should rescind the benefits you are getting.

You pay directly for the passport. There is a fee, you had over money, and bingo, your replaced/renewed Irish citizen passport. That is the free required to have a passport and avail of consular services and come back and work as you like (EU law).

What you want is people to supplement the €80 for passport and consular services (but no votigng) with another ~€10,000 a year to support a welfare class of rent supplement receiving jobless getting hundreds of euros a month for nothing.

Tell me what extra amount of services will be granted for upping the price of a passport from €80 to €10,000 plus per year?

MadsL

€10,000 plus per year?

Who suggested this figure?

Question: I am a U.S. citizen. If I leave the U.S. for good and start working abroad and pay the local taxes, do I still need to file my US tax return even if I don’t have US income? What happens if I don't?
Answer. A U.S. citizen or resident, you must file the U.S. tax return if you meet the filing requirements. You must report your world-wide income (even the income on which you paid the taxes in the foreign country). This applies to earned income (such as wages and tips and self employment income) and unearned income (such as interest, dividends, capital gains, pensions, rents, and royalties).

On your U.S. tax return, you will get your usual standard deduction and exemption deductions depending upon your filing status. Also, the U.S. has tax treaty with most of the countries, which means that on the income in other countries, you will get credit for the taxes paid in other countries.

This effectively means that if you work in a low-tax or zero-tax regime, you will be contributing more - the Middle-East scenario above. I can envisage a modest tax base on emigrant workers as a contribution towards the pension, health and other state benefits that they might receive on return to Ireland.

I would suggest that a high level of income be achieved before such a tax kicks in.

I find it odd that U2 are dispised for moving taxshelters, yet this suggestion of taxation sources from overseas is not more widely banded about.

I also fully agree that a postal vote system should be initiated for emigrees who wish to vote. The quote is "Taxation without representation is tyranny" just to be pedantic to the poster above..

As an expatriate myself, I do see the irony that I can return to the UK, not having paid a penny in tax since 1993, and yet still avail of healthcare services.

I also not the absurd discrepancy that a foreign-born national (likely resident and paying tax in Ireland for five years) applying for citizenship is charged 1125 euro, whereas by the 'granny rule' a passport application can be made by someone who has not contributed a cent to the State for the standard passport fee. They can then travel and avail of pension, healthcare and other state benefits. Seem very inequitable to me.

n900guy

MadsL wrote: »

Who suggested this figure?



I find it odd that U2 are dispised for moving taxshelters, yet this suggestion of taxation sources from overseas is not more widely banded about.

Why is moving the location of a company called a taxshelter? The company is no longer based in Ireland - it pays taxes elsewhere, right? Calling it a taxshelter when you really mean "paying tax at a different level as it is registered in a different country".

As an expatriate myself, I do see the irony that I can return to the UK, not having paid a penny in tax since 1993, and yet still avail of healthcare services.

You will be paying NI as soon as you return to work in the UK and thus entirely within reasonable grounds to get healthcare if you are now resident and paying NI in the UK. If you turn up in Netherlands, you will be paying health insurance here and also able to get healthcare from the start - because *you are now paying for it*.

MadsL

n900guy wrote: »

You will be paying NI as soon as you return to work in the UK and thus entirely within reasonable grounds to get healthcare if you are now resident and paying NI in the UK. If you turn up in Netherlands, you will be paying health insurance here and also able to get healthcare from the start - because *you are now paying for it*.

Not if I retire back to the UK to take advantage of the healthcare regime.....

ArphaRima

As an expat I find this suggestion offensive. In fact I heard that the Americans had to pay and I was offended on their behalf.

I know one American is rescinding his US citizenship over it.

contribution tax

WTF is that?? Do you mean charity tax?! Ireland is f*cked through no fault of mine. I made the decision to emigrate as I thought my career prospects were better elsewhere. Ireland is behind me.

Irish citizenship does not hold the same sway as US citizenship. If I get persecuted unfairly abroad, tough. If an American does, expect an aircraft carrier and a SEAL team to be parked off the coast of the offending nation.

Now if Ireland were to offer me the chance to pay PRSI in return for the safety of social services to fall back on; there's something.

Lets get this US tax filing while abroad straight.
If your living abroad and earned money abroad you are excluded.
If your working abroad but residing some of the time in the US you get taxed only on pay above 92,000 US Dollars.

http://www.irs.gov/businesses/small/international/article/0,,id=96822,00.html

Its really aimed at oil workers working for US multinationals in the Gulf doing 6 and 9 month stints.

I`m in Australia, working in mining and I bet the filthy politicians would love to get their hands on my hard earned cash. Alot of the Irish here are pissed at what went on at home like everyone else. Not only did alot of them lose their jobs but they had to emigrate to earn a living.

There is a definite line between the working holiday visa teens and early 20s and those 30+ who have a trade, experience, sponsorship or 4 yr business visas. I do believe alot would these people wouldnt be filing tax reports for Ireland and if necessary not renewing the passport. Returning home for Christmas doesnt require an Irish passport.

ardmacha

ardmacha wrote: »

Given the litany of excuses in the property tax thread, many people are unwilling to contribute to where they live, never mind where they don't live.

no they dont want to pay for the bloody banks or the crooked politicians
or pay for an overpaid public sector or an overinflated welfare state

mandrake04

Deleted User wrote: »

Lets get this US tax filing while abroad straight.
If your living abroad and earned money abroad you are excluded.
If your working abroad but residing some of the time in the US you get taxed only on pay above 92,000 US Dollars.

http://www.irs.gov/businesses/small/international/article/0,,id=96822,00.html

Its really aimed at oil workers working for US multinationals in the Gulf doing 6 and 9 month stints.

I`m in Australia, working in mining and I bet the filthy politicians would love to get their hands on my hard earned cash. Alot of the Irish here are pissed at what went on at home like everyone else. Not only did alot of them lose their jobs but they had to emigrate to earn a living.

There is a definite line between the working holiday visa teens and early 20s and those 30+ who have a trade, experience, sponsorship or 4 yr business visas. I do believe alot would these people wouldnt be filing tax reports for Ireland and if necessary not renewing the passport. Returning home for Christmas doesnt require an Irish passport.

Fucking oath why would I pay tax so the Irish government can hand it out as benefits to some immigrant.

ARGINITE

I pay enough tax as it is in the UK, if I had any more out goings I might as well move home and go on the dole!

Head The Wall

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

Well, the (very thin) logic would be that you still continue to receive the benefts of being an Irish citizen; the passport, not needing a Visa to visit certain countries, use of consular facilities, the ability to come back here any time and be able to legally work straight away.

So therefore you should continue to pay some nominal tax to us, or else you should rescind the benefits you are getting.

Thats some rubbish, every human has to be born somewhere and it's not your choice (it's your parents) so you are naturally a citizen of some country. How that country runs itself and what services it offers it's citizens is a completely different discussion.

maninasia

Give me the vote, then come back and talk to me!

srsly78

MadsL wrote: »

As generation emigration is back, is it time to introduce a tax base to ensure emigrant workers contribute to Irish recovery?

My wife was an emigrant US citizen, now Irish naturalised citizen who continued to file for US taxes during the last ten years as she had some US income and was working in Ireland for which the US IRS wants to know about. Irish emigrants however pay no domestic portion of tax, nor are assessed for foreign income.

Is it time to introduce a small 'contribution tax' on foreign income earned outside the EU?

Yes the americans have a crazy system where their government makes them file tax returns every year even if they emigrate. This is why wealthy americans (and other nationalities) renounce their citizenship and register with the Cayman Islands or Grenada / other place where you can buy a passport (helps if it's in the commonwealth too for travel purposes).

So the end result is: your tax will not hit the people you want it to hit.

maninasia

They also instituted this rule as they are a nation of immigrants, if you want to apply for citizenship you have to contribute if you are a high earner even if you are living in your native country.

Joe 90

In fact the idea of no taxation without representation is ass about face. It should be no representation without taxation. Only nett tax payers should be able to vote. That would sort out a lot of things.

ArphaRima

Only nett? tax payers should be able to vote

That is already the case. I was removed from the Voting Register around 2 months ago.
So. No taxation without representation it is.

sarumite

Joe 90 wrote: »

In fact the idea of no taxation without representation is ass about face. It should be no representation without taxation. Only nett tax payers should be able to vote. That would sort out a lot of things.

So no voting for Students, homemakers (I believe that is the 21st century PC term), those unemployed but genuinely looking for employment?

syklops

An emmigrant tax is really a stupid idea and completely unworkable.

With the current economic climate most potential emmigrants face one of two things, leave the country for work, or stay in the country on the dole. Imposing such a tax would make the decision even more money oriented - stay and get dole, leave and have to pay. Effectively paying for the people who choose to stay at home. Not happening amigo.

Manach

Given how poorly the government has spent tax money that has lead to this current economic situation - some improved form of oversight is needed. Who better to do that than the revenue generators from where the tax is generated.

On topic - If taxed, then they overseas Irish should have electoral representation.

LostinKildare

Deleted User wrote: »

Lets get this US tax filing while abroad straight.
If your living abroad and earned money abroad you are excluded.
If your working abroad but residing some of the time in the US you get taxed only on pay above 92,000 US Dollars.

http://www.irs.gov/businesses/small/international/article/0,,id=96822,00.html

Its really aimed at oil workers working for US multinationals in the Gulf doing 6 and 9 month stints.

I don't wish to draw this thread off-topic, but this is incorrect-- you've misread the IRS link, which is no surprise because the issue is very complicated.

If you are a US citizen living abroad all year (defined as 330 days+ in a consecutive 12-month period) then no you are not wholly excluded. But you do have the option of taking the Foreign Earned Income Exclusion, which excludes the first $92,900 (2011 limit) of income from taxes. You still have to pay tax on any balance above that limit, and if any of the income is from self-employment, you have to pay self-employment tax on that (Medicare, Social Security). But you may be able to offset any tax owed by taxes you've paid in your (foreign) locality if there is a tax treaty in place.

If you do not live abroad full-time then you are not eligible for that $92,900 exclusion, and things get more complicated.

It's also worth pointing out that even if you owe no tax in a year, you still are required to file a tax return.

who the fug

Love if they brought this in, and see what idiot would be landed with calling me.

It would be deadly fun altogether

who the fug

Also OP


Your effing mess, you pay for it

Joe 90

sarumite wrote: »

So no voting for Students, homemakers (I believe that is the 21st century PC term), those unemployed but genuinely looking for employment?

Don't forget PS employees and politicians.

murphaph

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

Well, the (very thin) logic would be that you still continue to receive the benefts of being an Irish citizen; the passport, not needing a Visa to visit certain countries, use of consular facilities, the ability to come back here any time and be able to legally work straight away.

So therefore you should continue to pay some nominal tax to us, or else you should rescind the benefits you are getting.

If the right to vote was a core right amongst that lot, then I'd be ok paying some token tax for it.

It should be an opt-in system though. Taxing people just for being Irish (effectively what this would be, as passports already cost a fare few bob as it is and must cover their costs) would be grossly unfair. A vote would have to be a minimum entitlement, as would the right to claim social welfare upon returning to Ireland

syklops

Come to think of it, im already paying an emmigrant tax. Everytime I have to get a plane to see my family.

sarumite

Joe 90 wrote: »

Don't forget PS employees and politicians.

So the only people you want voting are those on middle to higher incomes who work in the private sector? Perhaps we could have an incremental system so that those who pay more taxes get more votes as well?

Joe 90

sarumite wrote: »

So the only people you want voting are those on middle to higher incomes who work in the private sector? Perhaps we could have an incremental system so that those who pay more taxes get more votes as well?

Or a cap on total tax paid?

MadsL

who the fug wrote: »

Also OP


Your effing mess, you pay for it

How is it MY mess?? You know nothing about my circumstances, in fact I rented the whole 15 years I was in Ireland, paid tax and advised others to rent as the housing market was overvalued and going to crash and campaigned against overdevelopment of Dublin and destruction of Heritage properties to feed the property frenzy. I was demonised as a nay sayer most of the time - two former colleagues are now deep (50%+) in negative equity, despite me advising strongly not to buy.

I have since emigrated. I won't be back, however many emigrants will return and doubtless will expect a certain level of public services. If you leave the country sucking taxpayers dry, where will the economic activity come from to maintain those services. I agree emigrees should have the vote, question is - would you be prepared to pay for it?

eire4

fluffer wrote: »

As an expat I find this suggestion offensive. In fact I heard that the Americans had to pay and I was offended on their behalf.

I know one American is rescinding his US citizenship over it.

WTF is that?? Do you mean charity tax?! Ireland is f*cked through no fault of mine. I made the decision to emigrate as I thought my career prospects were better elsewhere. Ireland is behind me.

Irish citizenship does not hold the same sway as US citizenship. If I get persecuted unfairly abroad, tough. If an American does, expect an aircraft carrier and a SEAL team to be parked off the coast of the offending nation.

Now if Ireland were to offer me the chance to pay PRSI in return for the safety of social services to fall back on; there's something.

An American living abroad only has to pay taxes on earned income above $91,500 based on 2011 numbers. Also income earned from dividends, interest, rental income, capital gains are not taxed or included in the above number so really you have to be making a pretty big number to actually get taxed as an American living abroad. I might also add that like every other EU country an American living abroad has the right to vote unlike an Irish citizen.

who the fug

MadsL wrote: »

How is it MY mess?? You know nothing about my circumstances, in fact I rented the whole 15 years I was in Ireland, paid tax and advised others to rent as the housing market was overvalued and going to crash and campaigned against overdevelopment of Dublin and destruction of Heritage properties to feed the property frenzy. I was demonised as a nay sayer most of the time - two former colleagues are now deep (50%+) in negative equity, despite me advising strongly not to buy.

I have since emigrated. I won't be back, however many emigrants will return and doubtless will expect a certain level of public services. If you leave the country sucking taxpayers dry, where will the economic activity come from to maintain those services. I agree emigrees should have the vote, question is - would you be prepared to pay for it?

This is a mess that those who stayed created and to go after people who left in the eighties for a dig out is a bit rich.


Who voted Bertie in three times
Who voted to join the Euro thus funding the piss up

Not my hangover, so not paying

As to going back, you be a having a giraffe.

ArphaRima

eire4 wrote: »

An American living abroad only has to pay taxes on earned income above $91,500 based on 2011 numbers. Also income earned from dividends, interest, rental income, capital gains are not taxed or included in the above number so really you have to be making a pretty big number to actually get taxed as an American living abroad. I might also add that like every other EU country an American living abroad has the right to vote unlike an Irish citizen.

Well the Americans I know would all earn well in excess of 200k basic so it does affect them. Highly educated and highly motivated individuals.
America is now losing them as a result of bad policy. Incidentally the one who is already dropping his citizenship is Irish-American so it will be to Ireland's gain.
Until we f€ck it up too.

MadsL

the one who is already dropping his citizenship is Irish-American

Wow, I'd really council him otherwise, he ain't getting a blue passport in future without some battle. I believe in holding as many passports as possible.

ArphaRima

I believe in holding as many passports as possible.

I would love to hold a number of passports as I live abroad but I would temper that view with any requirement for tax payment or national service.

I would hate to pay 10's of thousands of dollars a year for the limited benefit of dual/multiple nationality.

I would also not welcome the idea of having to partake in compulsory national military service (more common/likely than you'd think);even worse be called upon to fight a war for a country I have little affiliation with.

Also the benefits of nationality decrease the more you have. Eg an Irish-Irish would have more sympathy and support diplomatically than an Irish/Iranian if They were to be arrested in Lebanon for example on dubious charges.
->There was a story of an American of Thai descent arrested recently for lese-majeste(insulting the king). He made comments online while he was home in the US and they arrested him on entry to Thailand at the airport. He's facing years in a Thai jail. It stirred up diplomatic/journalistic circles but can you imagine the comparable outrage had been a "typical" Brad from California?

As for advising my American acquaintance - he's more than aware of the consequences.

jank

sarumite wrote: »

So no voting for Students, homemakers (I believe that is the 21st century PC term), those unemployed but genuinely looking for employment?

An interesting idea, but sounds absurd doesn't it? Now how about the emmigrant who worked and paid taxes all his working life in his place of birth, gets 0 say in anything to do with Ireland once he steps on that plane or boat, even though he STILL might be paying taxes there. Absurd right?

murphaph

jank wrote: »

An interesting idea, but sounds absurd doesn't it? Now how about the emmigrant who worked and paid taxes all his working life in his place of birth, gets 0 say in anything to do with Ireland once he steps on that plane or boat, even though he STILL might be paying taxes there. Absurd right?

So true. I'm in that boat (pun intended): paid taxes for years and still paying income tax on certain income in Ireland. Irish citizen, no vote. Great little country.

It suits the political classes that emigrees have no vote. People need to understand that.

Do people realise that even if they just go on hoiday for 2 weeks to Spain and happen to be there during an election, that they too will be disenfranchised of their democratic right to vote? That's how afraid of postal voting the political classes are.

In Germany if you're going on holidays you just tell them and they send you a special set of coloured envelopes, so you can vote anonymously through the post.

Ireland has postal voting for some select few (army, Gardai, embassy staff and registered disabled), but not ordinary voters, because then the questions would be asked: why can't I use the postal vote system after I've emigrated?!

eire4

murphaph wrote: »

So true. I'm in that boat (pun intended): paid taxes for years and still paying income tax on certain income in Ireland. Irish citizen, no vote. Great little country.

It suits the political classes that emigrees have no vote. People need to understand that.

Do people realise that even if they just go on hoiday for 2 weeks to Spain and happen to be there during an election, that they too will be disenfranchised of their democratic right to vote? That's how afraid of postal voting the political classes are.

In Germany if you're going on holidays you just tell them and they send you a special set of coloured envelopes, so you can vote anonymously through the post.

Ireland has postal voting for some select few (army, Gardai, embassy staff and registered disabled), but not ordinary voters, because then the questions would be asked: why can't I use the postal vote system after I've emigrated?!

A vald point. It is in the political establishments interest to continue to deny Irish born citizens living abroad the right to vote. Lets face it once again we are seeing so many of our young leaving in droves and the establishment are terrified of who they might vote for due to the fact that so many are leaving because they have no prospects at home.

professore

n900guy wrote: »

How about starting with allowing expatriates to vote like every other civilised country first and treat adult working citizens with respect, instead of trying to keep grabbing cash not just from the dwindling population of workers in Ireland but also those who chose or needed to emigrate.

The US treats it citizens as income generation units, and is the last place we should be emulating.

Why the hell should people who are not living here have any say in how the country is run???? If we allowed emigrants to vote, FF would still be in power !

If you want to pay tax then fair enough, but it should be a fair whack to entitle you to vote, not some token amount.

Ireland has a HUGE expatriate population as a percentage of it's indigenous population compared to the "civilized" countries you refer to. It would completely skew the elections in favour of the gombeen politicians who throws the best shindigs in New York / Vancouver / Sydney at the taxpayers expense.

MadsL

professore wrote: »

Why the hell should people who are not living here have any say in how the country is run???? If we allowed emigrants to vote, FF would still be in power !

If you want to pay tax then fair enough, but it should be a fair whack to entitle you to vote, not some token amount.

Ireland has a HUGE expatriate population as a percentage of it's indigenous population compared to the "civilized" countries you refer to. It would completely skew the elections in favour of the gombeen politicians who throws the best shindigs in New York / Vancouver / Sydney at the taxpayers expense.

Why not add an expatriate constituency, say 3 seats?

murphaph

professore wrote: »

Why the hell should people who are not living here have any say in how the country is run???? If we allowed emigrants to vote, FF would still be in power

It wasn't expats that returned them to power time and time again, despite it being common knowledge that they were a corrupt party. Expats may have actually looked at FF and said "wtf?"

n900guy

professore wrote: »

Why the hell should people who are not living here have any say in how the country is run???? If we allowed emigrants to vote, FF would still be in power !

Ireland's very unique position on postal voting for citizens (i.e., denying citizens the right to vote) may be contributing to the parish pump politics that prevails in the country.

Someone who is on a job for 3 months? Is this emigrating? A year? 10 years? 2 weeks? It doesn't matter - if you are not physically present in Ireland for even a day at the vote, even if you have paid taxes for decades, you are denied a postal vote. This is a normal right of citizenship for every other western democracy.

And yet we have people here ignoring democracy, but trying to grab the money. Sure fire way of making the population smaller...and smaller....as the years go by.

The matter comes down to:
- certain groups which maintain the status quo are allowed the postal vote
- most normal citizens are denied this
- postal voting of your country of citizenship while not resident is the the norm in western democracy
- a bunch of eejits reckon ignore the democracy "issue" and grab the money.

MysticalRain

An emigrant voting for FF would be the equivalent of a turkey voting for Christmas.

Does not compute...

jank

professore wrote: »

Why the hell should people who are not living here have any say in how the country is run???? If we allowed emigrants to vote, FF would still be in power !

If you want to pay tax then fair enough, but it should be a fair whack to entitle you to vote, not some token amount.

Ireland has a HUGE expatriate population as a percentage of it's indigenous population compared to the "civilized" countries you refer to. It would completely skew the elections in favour of the gombeen politicians who throws the best shindigs in New York / Vancouver / Sydney at the taxpayers expense.

Yes, because that last poll of Irish people who live abroard returned how many FF TD's? One, thats right, just the one FF TD would have been returned if ONLY the emigrant vote was included. So your logic is plan $hite.

{cant remember that link or website}

I would be of the firm belief that emigrants would vote far more in the national favor rather than the pot hole fixing Jackie Healy Rae types that always gets returned. Might be selfish of me but I would rather vote for the person who has the national interest at heart then say someone who opens a local community hall. Nothing wrong with community halls but the thing is we return TD's to the Dail because of many community halls built across the land while the national interest is left in the cold. We should be putting the national interest first, always.

Head The Wall

professore wrote: »

If you want to pay tax then fair enough, but it should be a fair whack to entitle you to vote, not some token amount.

By your logic everyone that pays tax here should have the vote i.e all the immigrants, aliens etc