Cris "Cyborg" Santos fails drug-test, banned for 1 year.

MrStuffins

As the title says

The California State Athletic Commission has suspended and fined Strikeforce women's featherweight champion Cristiane "Cyborg" Santos due to a failed drug test.

CSAC officials today announced the fighter tested positive for stanozolol metabolites following a Dec. 17 title defense at "Strikeforce: Melendez vs. Masvidal."

She's been suspended one year and fined $2,500, according to a release the CSAC emailed to MMAjunkie.com (www.mmajunkie.com). Her win over Hiroko Yamanaka has been overturned to a no-contest.

MMAjunkie.com is in the process of getting comment from Strikeforce officials and Santos' representatives.

"Our primary concern is for the health and safety of fighters," CSAC Executive Officer George Dodd stated. "Anabolic agents and other banned substances put not only the users of those agents at risk, but their opponents as well. The commission simply will not tolerate their use."

Santos (10-1 MMA, 3-0 SF) picked up her 11th straight win (and fifth straight in Strikeforce) with the 16-second knockout of Yamanaka, which came at Valley View Casino Center in San Diego. The bout, which marked a third straight title defense, served as the night's Showtime-televised co-headliner and was Santos' first bout in Strikeforce in 18 months following a contract dispute. As Santos has torn through competition (with nine knockouts in 11 career wins), she's often been dogged by steroid speculation, though she never previously failed a test.

Santos, who's widely regarded as the sport's top female fighter, earned a disclosed payday of $66,000 for the Dec. 17 fight.

Santos's provision of a urine sample was observed by a CSAC representative on the night of the fight, and the sample was sent to the World Anti-Doping Agency test facility at UCLA. Santos has the right to appeal the suspension of her license.

Link

Stephen_King

The CSAC should hang a sign over its door saying 'Abandon all hope ye who roid here'. They've caught over double the amount of fighters the NSAC has over the years-and I'd think the NSAC has sanctioned far more events. Either their testing is incredibly stringent (all for that) or there's something dodgy going on....

http://www.cagepotato.com/mma-steroid-busts-definitive-timeline/

MrStuffins

Dana White has said she'll be stripped of the belt but not only that, her failed test could've killed Women's MMA under Zuffa! (the 145 division at least)

http://mmajunkie.com/news/26856/strikeforce-noncommittal-on-cris-santos-future-white-says-belt-will-be-stripped.mma

dave1982

First thing i thought when i read it that's women's MMA ****ed

00benski

Think it was only a matter of time before they got her. Glad they did

Anybody with a brain in their head knew she was on something really.

Women's MMA is ruined. It's sad because they always have great fights.

El Guapo!

She always looked as if she was taking something. Glad she got caught.

I don't see how this could ruin womens mma though. Surely one woman being caught isn't the end of women in the sport. Just the same way if a man gets caught that isn't the end of the sport altogether.

Niall0

Dean09 wrote: »

She always looked as if she was taking something. Glad she got caught.

I don't see how this could ruin womens mma though. Surely one woman being caught isn't the end of women in the sport. Just the same way if a man gets caught that isn't the end of the sport altogether.

This could be good for women's mma because it levels the playing field again, I bet Gina Carano makes a comeback now. It seems like everyone was ducking cyborg and you can't blame them really she looked like she coould take a bunch of the men at 145. Maybe now the 145 division will be more competitive again.

Mr. Loverman

I've been reading steroid forums for years and it would lead me to believe she was just unlucky she ****ed up her cycling, rather than being one of the few fighters on something...

El Guapo!

Mr. Loverman wrote: »

I've been reading steroid forums for years and it would lead me to believe she was just unlucky she ****ed up her cycling, rather than being one of the few fighters on something...

But as a fighter she shouldn't be on cycles of anything in the first place.









By the way.................in before Mr.Stuffins says "SHABBA!" :pac:

Mr. Loverman

Dean09 wrote: »

But as a fighter she shouldn't be on cycles of anything in the first place.

Ah yeah of course, but professional sports are full of steroids.

El Guapo!

Mr. Loverman wrote: »

Ah yeah of course, but professional sports are full of steroids.

Yeah that's true. And that's why I think there should be random drug testing all year round and not just at the time of a fight.
I'm not sure if that'd work but it'd make it a much fairer playing field for everybody.

Mr. Loverman

Mr. Loverman wrote: »

Ah yeah of course, but professional sports are full of steroids.

It's true you can't laugh it off.

Killme00

00benski wrote: »

Think it was only a matter of time before they got her. Glad they did

Deleted User wrote: »

Anybody with a brain in their head knew she was on something really.

Dean09 wrote: »

She always looked as if she was taking something. Glad she got caught.

Lads, with your extensive knowledge of steroids, perhaps you can tell us who else is using steroids in modern mma?

dave80

Killme00 wrote: »

Lads, with your extensive knowledge of steroids, perhaps you can tell us who else is using steroids in modern mma?

It's easier to sus out the girls than the lads

dave80

Dean09 wrote: »

Yeah that's true. And that's why I think there should be random drug testing all year round and not just at the time of a fight.
I'm not sure if that'd work but it'd make it a much fairer playing field for everybody.

That's wat they do with Olympic athletes but they are still full of drugs cheats?

Killme00

dave80 wrote: »

It's easier to sus out the girls than the lads

ORLY?

dave80

Killme00 wrote: »

ORLY?

YES

kainer2

Stephen_King wrote: »

The CSAC should hang a sign over its door saying 'Abandon all hope ye who roid here'. They've caught over double the amount of fighters the NSAC has over the years-and I'd think the NSAC has sanctioned far more events. Either their testing is incredibly stringent (all for that) or there's something dodgy going on....

http://www.cagepotato.com/mma-steroid-busts-definitive-timeline/

I'm pretty sure California holds a lot more MMA events than Nevada. I'm pretty sure the same is probably true about boxing too.

But because of the casino influence Nevada would probably hold more "top draw" events

00benski

Killme00 wrote: »

Lads, with your extensive knowledge of steroids, perhaps you can tell us who else is using steroids in modern mma?

Dont be so Naive Killme00, steriod abuse is rampant all over the states, and most of the world in all professional sports ( MMA included ) so your prob best off losing the attitude, take a bit of your own advice back

Higher

Killme00 wrote: »

Lads, with your extensive knowledge of steroids, perhaps you can tell us who else is using steroids in modern mma?

1) JOSH BARNETT (The Beginning) Caught: 4/22/02, following his TKO victory over Randy Couture at UFC 36. Tested positive for: Boldenone, Nandrolone, and Fluoxymesterone

2) TIM SYLVIA Caught: 10/7/03, following his first-round knockout of Gan McGee at UFC 44. Tested positive for: Stanozolol


3) KIMO LEOPOLDO (Pt. 1) Caught: 8/16/04, following his TKO loss to Ken Shamrock at UFC 48. Tested positive for: Stanozolol


4) NATE MARQUARDT Caught: 8/15/05, following his unanimous decision win over Ivan Salaverry at Ultimate Fight Night 1. Tested positive for: Nandrolone


5) KIMO LEOPOLDO (Pt. 2) Caught: 7/20/06, two days before he was scheduled to fight Bas Rutten at WFA: King of the Streets. Tested positive for: Stanozolol


6) VITOR BELFORT Caught: 10/26/06, following his unanimous decision loss to Dan Henderson at PRIDE 32. Tested positive for: 4-Hydroxytestosterone


7) PAWEL NASTULA Caught: 10/26/06, following his submission loss against Josh Barnett at PRIDE 32. Tested positive for: Nandrolone


STEPHAN BONNAR Caught: 11/3/06, following his second unanimous decision loss to Forrest Griffin at UFC 62. Tested positive for: Boldenone
9) KIT COPE Caught: 1/25/07, following his submission via strikes loss to Rob McCullough at WEC 25. Tested positive for: Boldenone


10) JOHNNIE MORTON Caught: 6/13/07, following his 38-second knockout loss against Bernard Ackah at Dynamite!! USA. Tested positive for: Unspecified anabolic steroids. Morton’s pre-fight urine test came back as positive for a very elevated T/E (testosterone) ratio — 83.9, when the average for an athlete is 6.



11) ROYCE GRACIE Caught: 6/14/07, following his unanimous decision win over Kazushi Sakuraba at Dynamite!! USA. Tested positive for: Nandrolone


12) JORGE ORTIZ Caught: 6/26/07, following his TKO loss to Jesse Taylor at Total Combat 21. Tested positive for: Nandrolone


13) PHIL BARONI Caught: 7/7/07, following his technical submission loss to Frank Shamrock at Strikeforce: Shamrock vs. Baroni. Tested positive for: Boldenone and Stanozolol


14) SEAN SHERK Caught: 7/19/07, following his unanimous decision win against Hermes Franca at UFC 73. Tested positive for: Nandrolone


15) HERMES FRANCA Caught: 7/19/07, following his unanimous decision loss to Sean Sherk at UFC 73. Tested positive for: Drostanolone


16) ANTHONY TORRES Caught: 10/3/07, following his TKO loss to Jess Liaudin at UFC 75. Tested positive for: Boldenone. Torres was the first fighter to be caught by a UFC-administered steroid test.


17) BILL MAHOOD Caught: 10/15/07, following his submission via rib injury loss to Bobby Southworth at Strikeforce’s first Playboy Mansion show. Tested positive for: Drostanolone


18) ADAM SMITH Caught: 10/17/07, following his unanimous decision loss to Dewey Cooper at Strikeforce’s first Playboy Mansion show. Tested positive for: Nandrolone and Stanozolol — as well as cocaine and marijuana.


19) JASON WINTHERS Caught: 11/19/07, following his TKO loss against Richard Blake at Rebel Fights: Unleashed Fury. Tested positive for: Stanozolol and the veterinary steroid Trenbolone — as well as methadone and morphine. Sounds like somebody’s been partying with Adam Smith…


20) RUBEN VILLAREAL Caught: 11/28/07, following his TKO loss to Jimmy Ambriz at WCO: Kerr vs. Gavin. Tested positive for: 4-Hydroxytestosterone


21) DENNIS HALLMAN Caught: 11/29/07, following his submission win over Jeremiah Metcalf at Strikeforce: Four Men Enter, One Man Survives.

Tested positive for: Drostanolone and Nandrolone


22) ALEXANDER CRISPIM Caught: 11/29/07, following his unanimous decision win over Clint Coronel at Strikeforce: Four Men Enter, One Man Survives. Tested positive for: Desoxymethyltestosterone


23) CARINA DAMM Caught: 5/15/08, following her submission win over Sophie Bagherdai at Femme Fatale Fighting 4. Tested positive for: Nandrolone


24) ALEXANDRE NOGUEIRA Caught: 7/7/08, following his TKO loss to Jose Aldo at WEC 34. Tested positive for: Boldenone


25) ANTONIO SILVA Caught: 8/21/08, following his TKO win over Justin Eilers at EliteXC: Unfinished Business. Tested positive for: Boldenone


26) EDWIN DEWEES Caught: 8/21/08, following his TKO loss against Antonio Rogerio Nogueira at Affliction: Banned. Tested positive for: A massive amount of Nandrolone.


27) KIRILL SIDELNIKOV Caught: 3/3/09, following his TKO loss to Paul Buentello at Affliction: Day of Reckoning. Tested positive for: Stanozolol


28) KEN SHAMROCK Caught: 3/11/09, following his submission win over super-heavyweight tubbaguts Ross Clifton at WarGods: Valentine’s Eve Massacre. Tested positive for: 19-Norandrosterone, 19-Noretiocholanolone, and Stanozolol


29) JOSH BARNETT (The End) Caught: 7/21/09, 11 days before he was scheduled to fight Fedor Emelianenko in the main event of Affliction: Trilogy. Tested positive for: Drostanolone


30) COLE PROVINCE
Caught: 8/17/09, following his unanimous decision win over Fredson Paixao at WEC 42.
Tested positive for: Methasterone


31) CHAEL SONNEN
Caught: 9/18/10, following his submission loss to Anderson Silva at UFC 117.
Tested positive for: “A natural steroid”
Punishment: $2,500 fine and a one-year suspension from the CSAC.


32) VINICIUS QUIEROZ
Caught: 11/2/10, following his submission loss to Rob Broughton at UFC 120.
Tested positive for: Stanozolol.


33) Cris ‘Cyborg’ Santos (Strikeforce womans champ)
Caught: 1/6/12, was suspended after testing positive for stanozolol metabolites.




Then you had a steroid supplier list that had Shane Carwin's name on it, Brock Lesnar was in the past caught with steroids, Jeff Monson has openly admitted steroid use, Overeem is without doubt on them as well.

Barry.Oglesby

Putting a list of convicted cheats up doesn't prove that MMA is "full" of steroid cheats, it just shows that the testing system has caught people 33 times. That's 33 out of how many professional fighters? Put the same up for baseball, football, rugby and American football and the amount of guys using doesn't prove anything either.

I think largely with the whole steroid issue, the problem is that the average keyboard jockey has simply no concept of how much work and training it takes to be an elite level athlete or fighter, and since (I'm going to generalise horribly) they're likely not to have any understanding of what it takes to be extremely fit, it's much easier to be a cynic and call "steroids!" every time.

trev77

After that post I would presume that you have extensive knowledge of training UFC fighters?
As your average keyboard jockey I have none but I'd like to hear about your experience and how you know that steroid use is not common at the ELITE level.

Barry.Oglesby wrote: »

Putting a list of convicted cheats up doesn't prove that MMA is "full" of steroid cheats, it just shows that the testing system has caught people 33 times. That's 33 out of how many professional fighters? Put the same up for baseball, football, rugby and American football and the amount of guys using doesn't prove anything either.

I think largely with the whole steroid issue, the problem is that the average keyboard jockey has simply no concept of how much work and training it takes to be an elite level athlete or fighter, and since (I'm going to generalise horribly) they're likely not to have any understanding of what it takes to be extremely fit, it's much easier to be a cynic and call "steroids!" every time.

Barry.Oglesby

trev77 wrote: »

After that post I would presume that you have extensive knowledge of training UFC fighters?
As your average keyboard jockey I have none but I'd like to hear about your experience and how you know that steroid use is not common at the ELITE level.

If you show me where I said it wasn't common I'll send you my CV. But in any case you've completely missed the point which is that in the absence of a conviction, all sportsmen should be considered innocent until proven guilty.

Leo Dowling

Jaysus you wouldn't think she'd need anything like that. I've seen three of her fights and she basically just mangled her opponents and threw them around like rag dolls with little effort. I'd find it hard to believe that it was only due to being on PEDs. Sad really but I don't think there are any good fights for her out there anyways, Ronda Rousey might have been interesting but she's moved down in weight.

trev77

Ur right u didn't but your insinuation is that the average mma fan hasn't a clue whereas you know better. Now unless you have been training UFC fighters and maybe you have been then your opinion is only as valid as the next mans isint it?

Barry.Oglesby wrote: »

trev77 wrote: »

After that post I would presume that you have extensive knowledge of training UFC fighters?
As your average keyboard jockey I have none but I'd like to hear about your experience and how you know that steroid use is not common at the ELITE level.

If you show me where I said it wasn't common I'll send you my CV. But in any case you've completely missed the point which is that in the absence of a conviction, all sportsmen should be considered innocent until proven guilty.

Barry.Oglesby

trev77 wrote: »

Ur right u didn't but your insinuation is that the average mma fan hasn't a clue whereas you know better. Now unless you have been training UFC fighters and maybe you have been then your opinion is only as valid as the next mans isint it?

Well I suppose from one point of view, given that I don't actually sit in the room or manage UFC guys training, then yes. On the other hand I do train athletes in my day job and I have seen first hand the effects of PEDs on performance, so perhaps I have a better insight into what the human body can do.

But if you're determined to undermine my opinion then fire away.

trev77

I wouldn't doubt your knowledge of the body seeing as that's your job but that isint whsts being debated. What is being debated is the extent of ped usage st the highest level in mma and wernt you first to undermine others when you have just admitted that you are as likely to be as wrong as the "average keyboard jockey".

Barry.Oglesby

trev77 wrote: »

I wouldn't doubt your knowledge of the body seeing as that's your job but that isint whsts being debated. What is being debated is the extent of ped usage st the highest level in mma and wernt you first to undermine others when you have just admitted that you are as likely to be as wrong as the "average keyboard jockey".

I think you're a bit confused here, or haven't read my posts well enough.

To summarise, I said that all athletes should be innocent until proven guilty, and that people on keyboards generally lack the frame of reference required to understand the effects of PEDs, and as such should probably err on the side of "I don't know" rather than saying they are rampant in sport.

trev77

If you can show me where you have said any of that in your iriginsl post then you will have a full apology because what you said there does not sound arrogant or cocky and does not put down the average fan that comes on here for a bit of debate without being put down.
Also below is not a summary. It's a complete re write

To summarise, I said that all athletes should be innocent until proven guilty, and that people on keyboards generally lack the frame of reference required to understand the effects of PEDs, and as such should probably err on the side of "I don't know" rather than saying they are rampant in sport.[/Quote]

Barry.Oglesby

Barry.Oglesby wrote: »

Putting a list of convicted cheats up doesn't prove that MMA is "full" of steroid cheats, it just shows that the testing system has caught people 33 times. That's 33 out of how many professional fighters? Put the same up for baseball, football, rugby and American football and the amount of guys using doesn't prove anything either.

I think largely with the whole steroid issue, the problem is that the average keyboard jockey has simply no concept of how much work and training it takes to be an elite level athlete or fighter, and since (I'm going to generalise horribly) they're likely not to have any understanding of what it takes to be extremely fit, it's much easier to be a cynic and call "steroids!" every time.

There's my original post. I haven't been saying this again and again as I was trying to reword it for you. Now if you think that sounds arrogant or cocky, or that I was trying to put anyone down, then I think you need to develop some thicker skin.

trev77

Barry.Oglesby wrote: »

Barry.Oglesby wrote: »

Putting a list of convicted cheats up doesn't prove that MMA is "full" of steroid cheats, it just shows that the testing system has caught people 33 times. That's 33 out of how many professional fighters? Put the same up for baseball, football, rugby and American football and the amount of guys using doesn't prove anything either.

I think largely with the whole steroid issue, the problem is that the average keyboard jockey has simply no concept of how much work and training it takes to be an elite level athlete or fighter, and since (I'm going to generalise horribly) they're likely not to have any understanding of what it takes to be extremely fit, it's much easier to be a cynic and call "steroids!" every time.[/

Yup very different to your "summary".
Now you say that the average keyboard jockey has simply no concept of how much work and training it takes to be an elite level athlete or fighter.
From this it sounds as if you do have experience training elite level fighters?
Do u train elite level fighters?
If you do your entitled to undermine the average keyboard jockey.

Killme00

00benski wrote: »

Dont be so Naive Killme00, steriod abuse is rampant all over the states, and most of the world in all professional sports ( MMA included ) so your prob best off losing the attitude, take a bit of your own advice back

What attitude? Is sensationalist a word, if it was I would say you have what it takes to write for the News of the World.

Killme00

Overeem is without doubt on them as well.

Isn't speculation about drug use also against the forum charter?

In either case, due to the sheer volume of moronity abound in this forum, the conversation about steroids won't get very far.

El Guapo!

Killme00 wrote: »

Lads, with your extensive knowledge of steroids, perhaps you can tell us who else is using steroids in modern mma?

I never claimed to have extensive knowledge of steroids. I have very little knowledge of steroid use since I have never used them and I know personally of only one person who has used them.

In my post I simply said she looked like she was taking something. And I based that purely on looks alone. She always has a very ripped and muscular physique for a woman compared to other female fighters. And her voice always seemed deep for a woman.

But I always gave her the benefit of the doubt as these things could al be just the way she is made up genetically. As Barry rightly said, all proffesional athletes are innocent until proven guilty when it comes to things like this. And it's the job of the athletic commission to do the investigations...not us.

All I meant by my post was that when I heard that she tested positive I wasn't as surprised as I would've been if it was another fighter.

Barry.Oglesby

Trev, if that is your real name... you can continue to read whatever you want into my posts if you like, but I think what I said is clear enough and no one else seems to have been either offended or has misunderstood. I've also explained my stance and my experience in more detail than I usually care to, but your bit between your teeth seems to be the fact that I don't train elite level fighters, which I plainly don't, but you seem to want to get me to say that. So I can only assume you want to take this opportunity to try to get at me in some way so here you are:

I just got pwned on the interwebs by Trev77 because I don't train anyone in the UFC.

Thanks,

Barry

Killme00

Dean09 wrote: »

I never claimed to have extensive knowledge of steroids. I have very little knowledge of steroid use since I have never used them and I know personally of only one person who has used them.

In my post I simply said she looked like she was taking something. And I based that purely on looks alone. She always has a very ripped and muscular physique for a woman compared to other female fighters. And her voice always seemed deep for a woman.

But I always gave her the benefit of the doubt as these things could al be just the way she is made up genetically. As Barry rightly said, all proffesional athletes are innocent until proven guilty when it comes to things like this. And it's the job of the athletic commission to do the investigations...not us.

All I meant by my post was that when I heard that she tested positive I wasn't as surprised as I would've been if it was another fighter.

So, Abs and a deep voice equals steroid use. Like I said, moronity is abound.

the drifter

Barry.Oglesby wrote: »

I just got pwned on the interwebs by Trev77 because I don't train anyone in the UFC.

Thanks,

Barry

That should so be your sig

El Guapo!

Killme00 wrote: »

So, Abs and a deep voice equals steroid use. Like I said, moronity is abound.

I don't think what I said was moronic in any way.
It's well known that steroid use can cause increased levels of testosterone in the body which can result in the deepening of the voice.
To me, she has a deep voice for a woman, and as I said she also has an incredibly ripped physique for a woman.
I never said thats a definite indicator of steroid use. I simply said that I wasn't shocked to hear the news.

trev77

My point is that as someone that doesn't train elite fighters you shouldn't undermine other peoples opinions on this matter

Barry.Oglesby

trev77 wrote: »

My point is that as someone that doesn't train elite fighters you shouldn't undermine other peoples opinions on this matter

EDIT: No not going to be drawn on that actually. Best of luck with the rest of the "debate"

00benski

Barry.Oglesby wrote: »

I think you're a bit confused here, or haven't read my posts well enough.

To summarise, I said that all athletes should be innocent until proven guilty, and that people on keyboards generally lack the frame of reference required to understand the effects of PEDs, and as such should probably err on the side of "I don't know" rather than saying they are rampant in sport.

dont want to start an argument but i do know plenty about ped's and have Friends who for many years have been cylcling on and off, who i might add are perfectly healthy and fit people.

Yes there is an extremly high amount of people who dont use these drugs, but to put your body through some of the training ELITE athlets do, many times a day would be impossible on the human body without the help of some sort of edge.

00benski

And my take on things would be most of these commission's dont have the money or the resources to test all these atlethes and i belive if they did then we would be seeing an awful lot more being cought and more people would realise.

MrStuffins

00benski wrote: »

dont want to start an argument but i do know plenty about ped's and have Friends who for many years have been cylcling on and off, who i might add are perfectly healthy and fit people.

Yes there is an extremly high amount of people who dont use these drugs, but to put your body through some of the training ELITE athlets do, many times a day would be impossible on the human body without the help of some sort of edge.

Wait, what?

Did you just imply that all elite athletes are on PEDs?

MrStuffins

trev77 wrote: »

My point is that as someone that doesn't train elite fighters you shouldn't undermine other peoples opinions on this matter

Dude, I don't coach football in the Premier League, but i know most footballers aren't on drugs. Your arguments don't really have too much logic to them in fairness.

There's a massive difference between Barry O saying "You can't prove PEDs are widespread" and you saying "You can't prove they're not". The onus of proof is NOT on the person to prove PEDs are not being used, it's up to the person making the claim that they are to prove that they are.

Like this comment here:

Higher wrote: »

Overeem is without doubt on them as well.

Unless the poster has something to back himself up with, he shouldn't be saying things like this.

00benski

MrStuffins wrote: »

Wait, what?

Did you just imply that all elite athletes are on PEDs?

Hardly, this is not the case. MrStuffins and forgive my Phrasing of my last post

MrStuffins

00benski wrote: »

Hardly, this is not the case. MrStuffins and forgive my Phrasing of my last post

Then what are you trying to say exactly?

00benski

MrStuffins wrote: »

Dude, I don't coach football in the Premier League, but i know most footballers aren't on drugs. Your arguments don't really have too much logic to them in fairness.

There's a massive difference between Barry O saying "You can't prove PEDs are widespread" and you saying "You can't prove they're not". The onus of proof is NOT on the person to prove PEDs are not being used, it's up to the person making the claim that they are to prove that they are.

Like this comment here:



Unless the poster has something to back himself up with, he shouldn't be saying things like this.

Ah come on MrStuffins, the guys body type over the years has been long and Lanky,(Ectomorph) for him to put on the size he has in such a short amount of time, all muscle mass is certainly not from eating horse meat and training his ass off to think so its naive

trev77

MrStuffins wrote: »

trev77 wrote: »

My point is that as someone that doesn't train elite fighters you shouldn't undermine other peoples opinions on this matter

Dude, I don't coach football in the Premier League, but i know most footballers aren't on drugs. Your arguments don't really have too much logic to them in fairness.

There's a massive difference between Barry O saying "You can't prove PEDs are widespread" and you saying "You can't prove they're not". The onus of proof is NOT on the person to prove PEDs are not being used, it's up to the person making the claim that they are to prove that they are.

Like this comment here:

Higher wrote: »

Overeem is without doubt on them as well.

Unless the poster has something to back himself up with, he shouldn't be saying things like this.

I think you missed my point mr stuffins, my point is that none of us know what the level of ped use is at the elite level of mma because nobody on this forum are involved with fighters of that level and because of that barrys opinion is only as valid as any body else's rather then and I did take offence to this "the average keyboard jockey"

00benski

What im trying to say is, as ive said in posts already. STERIOD use is rampant at the top end of Sports and this includes MMA, Rugby, american football, baseball, athletics ect. Im not insinuating that all atlethes are on them. But there is a hell of a lot and i dont know why you would think not.

Logical Fallacy

00benski wrote: »

Ah come on MrStuffins, the guys body type over the years has been long and Lanky,(Ectomorph) for him to put on the size he has in such a short amount of time, all muscle mass is certainly not from eating horse meat and training his ass off to think so its naive

Okay, not to sound like a total dick but i see a lot of people making this argument about Overeem.

Here are my thoughts on it.

Yes, Overeem has put on weight but to call him previously long and lanky is a bit misleading. Yes, he was not carrying as much muscle back then but he still had incredibly full muscle bellies and low muscle insertions. Go back to Overeem Vs Shogun and the majority of people with any real knowledge of building the human physique would agree that Overeem had incredible potential for size.

Secondly it's not really a short amount of time...it's been 4 years. His last LHW fight was June 2007. That is a long time to add mass, especially if you consider Overeem's well documented struggle with maintaining his body for Light heavy weight. He was basically unable to eat or weight train to his potential in order to stay in that weight category.

Thirdly, there are certain obvious side effects of the majority of PED's that would be available to someone at Overeem's level the most obvious of which is the old back acne issue. Saw one thing for Overeem, the guy doesn't show any signs of it.

Fourth, i've noticed a lot of people saying he is probably on HGH on the internet, yet once again the main physical side effects of said substance don't seem to be manifesting...predominantly further growth of the jaw and skull and distension of the waistline and stomach due to internal organ growth.

Now, i'm not saying he is or is not on drugs, i am simply pointing out that at the moment, beyond the fact that he is big...there is no real evidence for the claim that he is, as the majority of points raised can be easily and logical argued against.

Finally, from personal experience, the second you get even remotely big and strong the average Joe Soap thinks you are on steroids. Myself and a former training partner were repeatedly asked were we on steroids in pretty much every gym we trained in when we were both clean as a whistle...so i guess i am trying to say is that the simple idea that someone who eats a lot and trains hard and can get a lot bigger because of it seems to be lost on a lot of people.