2011 Census enumerator edited 'my religion' when collecting my form

28064212

Deleted User wrote: »

That's what the "no religion" option was for. Religion implying an organised religion of course.

Is Scientology an organised religion or a cult? Is Buddhism an organised religion or a set of beliefs? Wicca? Paganism?

And what was the freetext area for, if not to encompass beliefs that aren't covered in the other boxes?

Deleted User wrote: »

If you have a problem with the census forms then write a letter to the CSO or your TD. The census is an extremely important document and should be filled out properly. Otherwise we can't rely on the data collected and that effects things such as whether or not parts of Swords are in one electoral district or another and what provisions should be made for expanding populations.

I have no problem with it. I have a problem with someone calling for prosecution based on something so incredibly ill-defined and individual as religion.

Deleted User wrote: »

Jedi has a plain definition. In fact it is a registered trademark. Therefore when anyone puts it down on the census form that is the plain understanding of the word that someone should take from it. I can't put down that I have 11 children and then decide that the number 11 isn't actually the number that people think it is but rather my way of making the important social point that the Government has underfunded childcare in this country. Words have meanings and Jedi has a very well defined one.

Catholicism has an even more well-defined and narrow meaning than Jedi. Are we going to prosecute the "a la carte" Catholics?

28064212

28064212 wrote: »

Is Scientology an organised religion or a cult? Is Buddhism an organised religion or a set of beliefs? Wicca? Paganism?

And what was the freetext area for, if not to encompass beliefs that aren't covered in the other boxes?

Jedi isn't a belief. It's a registered trademark. It's the equivalent of putting Coca Cola in there.

28064212 wrote: »

I have no problem with it. I have a problem with someone calling for prosecution based on something so incredibly ill-defined and individual as religion.

It is ill-defined and it is incredibly personal. However one can reasonably assume that commercially designed fictional entities (and don't get cynical about other organised religions as that is just a straw man, "Jedi" comes exclusively from the commercial realm and there is a qualitative difference between it and organised religions) fall outside that remit. Beyond that the person who puts it down, even if they are doing it to make a social point, is consciously lying which is, after all, the fundamental element of the offence.

28064212 wrote: »

Catholicism has an even more well-defined and narrow meaning than Jedi. Are we going to prosecute the "a la carte" Catholics?

Catholic isn't a registered trademark. There is also more than one type of Catholicism. Whether the person who doesn't believe in the trinity also thinks he is a Catholic doesn't matter for the purposes of the offence so long as he honestly believes that he is a Catholic. The offence isn't one of theological ambiguity, it's one of consciously providing misleading information on the census form.

By the by I am an atheist personally and care not a jot for the Catholic Church however I do believe in civic responsibility and lying on an extremely important form that does little more than help in the better planning for our future needs is something that should be looked down on sternly and, given it is an offence, punished accordingly.

MagicSean

28064212 wrote: »

Is Scientology an organised religion or a cult? Is Buddhism an organised religion or a set of beliefs? Wicca? Paganism?

And what was the freetext area for, if not to encompass beliefs that aren't covered in the other boxes?


I have no problem with it. I have a problem with someone calling for prosecution based on something so incredibly ill-defined and individual as religion.


Catholicism has an even more well-defined and narrow meaning than Jedi. Are we going to prosecute the "a la carte" Catholics?

It comes down to what you believe you are. If you think you are a catholic because you have a baptismal cert even though you dont practice and you put that down then it is not a lie because you believed it to be true. But you would have a hard time convincing a judge you believe you are Jedi and that you were being honest when you wrote it down. I'm sure you would have a lot of ways of trying to convince him but I doubt you would be successful.

Tayla

Deleted User wrote: »

Jedi isn't a belief. It's a registered trademark. It's the equivalent of putting Coca Cola in there.

No it isn't actually, Coca cola don't have a church.

Tayla

Tayla wrote: »

No it isn't actually, Coca cola don't have a church.

There are churches and then there are churches. The Church of Arthur Fonzarelli was pretty good in Family Guy, I think I'll follow that.

In all seriousness though this isn't actually a debate about the merits of one ridiculous belief in fairy stories over another. It's about whether or not putting Jedi down on the census form would be considered a falsehood by a reasonable person and, in all fairness, it would.

Jedi is a brand, not a religion. Just because some people take it way too seriously does not lend credibility to the "religion" it just denigrates the credibility of the people who profess it.

May the Force be with you.

Tayla

Deleted User wrote: »

In all seriousness though this isn't actually a debate about the merits of one ridiculous belief in fairy stories over another. It's about whether or not putting Jedi down on the census form would be considered a falsehood by a reasonable person and, in all fairness, it would.

The thread itself is about the enumerator abusing their position.

Deleted User wrote: »

Just because some people take it way too seriously does not lend credibility to the "religion"

I feel the exact same way about the Catholic church though, I don't find it credible at all, I don't want to say too much about it as I do not want to offend people but to me it's incredibly insulting that someone would say that the Catholic religion is a proper religion and will not allow people to claim that Jedi is their own. I just don't think people here have the right to say that these people are clearly lying and so therefore lying.

If someone decided to take the beliefs of the Jedi church seriously then is it really such a bad way to live your life?


I don't consider myself a Jedi by the way but there wouldn't have been enough room on the census form for me to explain what exactly I do believe in.

MagicSean

Tayla wrote: »

The thread itself is about the enumerator abusing their position.



I feel the exact same way about the Catholic church though, I don't find it credible at all, I don't want to say too much about it as I do not want to offend people but to me it's incredibly insulting that someone would say that the Catholic religion is a proper religion and will not allow people to claim that Jedi is their own. I just don't think people here have the right to say that these people are clearly lying and so therefore lying.

If someone decided to take the beliefs of the Jedi church seriously then is it really such a bad way to live your life?


I don't consider myself a Jedi by the way but there wouldn't have been enough room on the census form for me to explain what exactly I do believe in.

It's not about how ridiculous it would be to follow the jedi beliefs. It's about wether you are being honest if you were to write Jedi as your religion on a legal document.

Jesus Shaves

MagicSean wrote: »

It's not about how ridiculous it would be to follow the jedi beliefs. It's about wether you are being honest if you were to write Jedi as your religion on a legal document.

A court would never be able to prove whether you were honest or not if you wrote JEDI
Same as any religion

MagicSean

darokane wrote: »

A court would never be able to prove whether you were honest or not if you wrote JEDI
Same as any religion

I would say a district court judge would be easily persuaded you were lying. They don't often like playing games. It may get overuled in a higher court eventually.

Jesus Shaves

MagicSean wrote: »

I would say a district court judge would be easily persuaded you were lying. They don't often like playing games. It may get overuled in a higher court eventually.

District court judges are a joke
You can choose to have your case heard in a circuit court anyway, A jury would laugh if something like this ever came to trial

dvpower

MagicSean wrote: »

I would say a district court judge would be easily persuaded you were lying. They don't often like playing games. It may get overuled in a higher court eventually.

I'm not aware of any global register of religions, and the standard defiitions are very loose, so it might be very difficult for a court to rule that Jediism isn't one.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jediism
http://www.jedichurch.org/

MagicSean

darokane wrote: »

District court judges are a joke
You can choose to have your case heard in a circuit court anyway, A jury would laugh if something like this ever came to trial

You think so? It's a very religious country so a jury may not consist of people who find it amusing to have their beliefs mocked.

dvpower

MagicSean wrote: »

You think so? It's a very religious country so a jury may not consist of people who find it amusing to have their beliefs mocked.

What beliefs are being mocked by someone identifing as a Jedi?

Edit: Why does a Jury have to come into this anyway?

Jesus Shaves

MagicSean wrote: »

You think so? It's a very religious country so a jury may not consist of people who find it amusing to have their beliefs mocked.

That is why the right of appeal is a good thing, it wont be a religious country for much longer

Tayla

MagicSean wrote: »

I would say a district court judge would be easily persuaded you were lying. They don't often like playing games. It may get overuled in a higher court eventually.

If anyone was ever prosecuted over lying on census forms it would be over material facts, such as if you said your home had 400 bedrooms etc.

They would never ever in a million years prosecute for lying about your religion. In the OP's situation the enumerator would be more likely to get prosecuted as they are the one who was tampering with the form

MagicSean wrote: »

You think so? It's a very religious country so a jury may not consist of people who find it amusing to have their beliefs mocked.

No, it's not a very religious country, out of everyone I know not one person under the age of 60 goes to mass except for at christenings, weddings etc.

How exactly is saying you're a jedi mocking someone elses religious views?

This thread actually deserves a Jedi face palm

lestat21

This is an international phenomena that started in protest against the religion affiliation question on the census form, but my friend put it on his form because he is a huge star wars fan... I would act agree with him and say he has every right to put JEdi down, after all scientology's apparently a religion!!

As a historian and a mathematican, I think all stats should be included to give an overall picture of Irish society! and no ones answer should be changed especially the religion question which is such a subjective and personal area.

Some stats I robbed off Wikipedia...

In England and Wales 390,127 people (almost 0.8%) stated their religion as Jedi on their 2001 Census forms, surpassing Sikhism, Judaism, and Buddhism, and making it the fourth largest reported religion in the countries.[14] In the 2001 Census 2.6% of the population of Brighton claimed to be Jedi. The percentages of religious affiliations were:

• Christian: 70.0%
• No religion: 14.7%
• Chose not to respond: 7.8%
• Muslim: 3.1%
• Hindu: 2.1%
• Jedi: 0.7%

It was confirmed prior to the census that citizens were not liable for a fine in relation to question 10 (on religion).[15] This was based on section 1(2) of the Census (Amendment) Act 2000,[16] which amended section 8 of the Census Act 2000 to state that "no person shall be liable to a penalty under subsection (1) for refusing or neglecting to state any particulars in respect of religion". The change in the law was implemented by The Census (Amendment) Order 2000[17] and The Census (Amendment) Regulations 2000.[18]

Jedi was assigned its own code in the United Kingdom for census processing, the number 896.[19] Officials from the Office for National Statistics pointed out that this merely means that it has been registered as a common answer to the "religion" question and that this does not confer on it the status of official recognition. John Pullinger, Director of Reporting and Analysis for the Census, noted that many people who would otherwise not have completed a Census form did so solely to record themselves as Jedi, so this joke helped to improve the quality of the Census. The Office of National Statistics revealed the total figure in a press release entitled "390,000 Jedis there are".[20]

dvpower

lestat21 wrote: »

The Office of National Statistics revealed the total figure in a press release entitled "390,000 Jedis there are".

You have to admire their sense of humour

Victor

knird evol wrote: »

With all these moral dilemas I think you should ask yourself
the simple question 'what would Luke Skywalker have done'?

I don't know, but Han would have shot him under the table.

Our man in Havana

darokane wrote: »

District court judges are a joke
You can choose to have your case heard in a circuit court anyway, A jury would laugh if something like this ever came to trial

District courts are for people who have no money to defend themselves against vindictive police and state agencies.

For real justice you need the chap in a wig.

FreudianSlippers

I think this thread has run its course and then gone wildly off topic. Anyone have a good reason it should continue?

Mr. Presentable

MrStuffins wrote: »

How did he know his religion isn't Jedi?

Did he pay his jedi tax? No? Clear as day, so.

zuroph

FreudianSlippers wrote: »

I think this thread has run its course and then gone wildly off topic. Anyone have a good reason it should continue?

Yoda appeared to me in a dream and told me "stay open it must"

Our man in Havana

An aside. Has anyone been ever prosecuted for this type of thing?

Tayla

Our man in Havana wrote: »

An aside. Has anyone been ever prosecuted for this type of thing?

I don't think so, I think the only prosecutions have been for people who didn't fill it out at all.

Personally If it had been me who was there when the enumerator had came to collect mine and she had quizzed me on aspects of the form I would have told her to forget about collecting it and that some other person would have to collect it.

lestat21

Tayla wrote: »

I don't think so, I think the only prosecutions have been for people who didn't fill it out at all.

Personally If it had been me who was there when the enumerator had came to collect mine and she had quizzed me on aspects of the form I would have told her to forget about collecting it and that some other person would have to collect it.

U can prosecute someone for not filling in the religion question?? That seems very medieval... What is their thinking behinnd prosecuting people over one lil question on the census form?

Tayla

lestat21 wrote: »

U can prosecute someone for not filling in the religion question?? That seems very medieval... What is their thinking behinnd prosecuting people over one lil question on the census form?

Sorry for the confusion, I think they only prosecute if you don't fill in any of the form at all!

oppenheimer1

gj777 wrote: »

Hi,
I know what some are thinking already and yes: it's the 'Jedi thing' ...BUT what I wrote on my form is not the point - I was just informed that when the enumerator collected our form back last April, they opened it up, checked that section and actually scribbled out my entry because I wrote Jedi. Apparently he mumbled 'we don't allow that anymore' or something!

Are they allowed to do this? I would be surprised if this is not an invasion of privacy of some kind. Honestly I'm not sure if we are even legally obliged to fill the census out at all, but if we are then surely the provided info can't be edited by anyone other than the person who's name is at the top of the page? From the signed declaration I believe we must be accurate - so surely that doesn't give the right to anyone to dispute my entries with out discussion, especially the only subjective entry: what religion I consider myself?

This is really an academic concern about what the enumerator can do with forms, I'm not concerned with whether one is actually a practising member of whatever faith and so what one 'should' write on the forms. Which is basically related to why I put Jedi on my forms.
If anyone cares about why I do it I can tell them, but that's not my point here.
I'm not trying to defend religious practice or establish Jedi as anything, I'm just shocked that apparently the enumerator knows what religion I am and has the right to correct how I represent myself.
I can understand that the counters might get a bit sick of it, but that's not my problem. To me the Jedi thing is a kind of alternative to a typical vote abstention or vote spoiling, and I should have the right to do that ...right?

Anyone have any insights into this?

Thanks all, live long and... wait, no.

Edit: according to the census.ie site, yes we're legally obliged to complete the form.

Why did you put Jedi on the form? To abstain you could have chosen not to answer the question, or ticked the no religion box.

Jesus Shaves

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

Why did you put Jedi on the form? To abstain you could have chosen not to answer the question, or ticked the no religion box.

Why would he do that if his religion is JEDI?

MagicSean

darokane wrote: »

Why would he do that if his religion is JEDI?

If his religion was really Jedi then he could put that. But it obviously wasn't.

Victor

Our man in Havana wrote: »

An aside. Has anyone been ever prosecuted for this type of thing?

Realistically, I can only see the likes of the occupiers of large buildings, e.g. a boarding school being prosecuted for failure to complete or third parties for damage, theft or other interference.

oppenheimer1

darokane wrote: »

Why would he do that if his religion is JEDI?

If his religion was Jedi then of course he should have put it down. He did state in his OP that he answered the question in that way to register an abstention/protest (against what, who knows?). The fact is he has stated he has a religious belief when he most likely doesn't have one. His lie on the form has corrupted the statistic. The question wouldn't be asked if it wasn't important.

If he is willing to lie and make a declaration of truth for this, can the rest of the data on his form be trusted to be accurate. Sure wouldn't it also be a great protest/laugh to say he was an African traveller with a PhD that lives in a 40 room house?

He should be prosecuted and fined. The census is too important for pricking about and acting the bollocks with. I have a very low opinion of the OP, much lower now that he went to the CSO and possibly lost the enumerator the chance to work on the census again. All for what - the ability to make a false declaration. I hope you're proud of yourself.

Tayla

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

If he is willing to lie and make a declaration of truth for this, can the rest of the data on his form be trusted to be accurate. Sure wouldn't it also be a great protest/laugh to say he was an African traveller with a PhD that lives in a 40 room house?

That is ridiculous, the state could prove he wasn't African, that he didn't have a PHD and that his house didn't have 40 rooms. The state cannot mind read, they do not know that that in his head he doesn't believe in Jedi as a religion.

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

He should be prosecuted and fined. The census is too important for pricking about and acting the bollocks with.

The exact same thing can be applied to the enumerator who tampered with the census form.

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

I have a very low opinion of the OP, much lower now that he went to the CSO and possibly lost the enumerator the chance to work on the census again.

If that's what has lost the enumerator their job then perhaps they shouldn't have tampered with the answers. It is a job which has very strict rules, the enumerator should have known not to scribble it out.

oppenheimer1

Tayla wrote: »

That is ridiculous, the state could prove he wasn't African, that he didn't have a PHD and that his house didn't have 40 rooms. The state cannot mind read, they do not know that that in his head he doesn't believe in Jedi as a religion.

The states belief is irrelevant. He stated in his OP that he did it as a protest. Just because the state cannot prove that you are lying is no justification for actually lying on the form.

The exact same thing can be applied to the enumerator who tampered with the census form.



If that's what has lost the enumerator their job then perhaps they shouldn't have tampered with the answers. It is a job which has very strict rules, the enumerator should have known not to scribble it out.

The forms also need to be filled out truthfully. Something which wasn't done by the OP. Two wrongs don't make a right ( however in this case they did actually correct the data) but you should at least acknowledge that it was also wrong to lie or misrepresent himself on the census.

I find it ironic that the OP sought to have the rules enforced when he didn't abide by them. Hypocrisy.

Tayla

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

Just because the state cannot prove that you are lying is no justification for actually lying on the form.

I think that anyone who wants to lie about their religion should be allowed to lie if they so wish, would there be such a big deal if someone said they were protestant and they weren't?

Also the fact that the state used CACI to aid the census completely justifies people writing whatever they want to me!

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

The forms also need to be filled out truthfully. Something which wasn't done by the OP. Two wrongs don't make a right but you should at least acknowledge that it was also wrong to lie or misrepresent himself on the census.

You should at least acknowledge that if the enumerator does not get the chance to do the job again that it was her own fault instead of trying to make the OP feel like he is the one to blame.

Tayla

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

I find it ironic that the OP sought to have the rules enforced when he didn't abide by them. Hypocrisy.

Yes and doesn't the same apply to the enumerator, she tried to change the OP's answer because she decided that he broke the rules, she then broke the rules herself.

oppenheimer1

Tayla wrote: »

I think that anyone who wants to lie about their religion should be allowed to lie if they so wish, would there be such a big deal if someone said they were protestant and they weren't?

Also the fact that the state used CACI to aid the census completely justifies people writing whatever they want to me!

There is no justification for lying on the census. Anyone that does doesn't deserve to be taken seriously as an individual.

You should at least acknowledge that if the enumerator does not get the chance to do the job again that it was her own fault instead of trying to make the OP feel like he is the one to blame.

The enumerator was trying to improve the quality of the raw data that was to be presented for analysis. Liars like the OP, waste census staff resources as the form has to be manually processed. They also corrupt the statistics. The OP was to blame. If he had answered truthfully this situation would never have arisen. Also if he had let sleeping dogs lie and allowed the truthful answer to remain on the form, this situation would also never have arisen. All I can see is that the enumerator misunderstood the guidelines for dealing with bullshit answers and difficult individuals. The enumerators job is tough enough as it is without people intentionally making life more difficult for them.

oppenheimer1

Tayla wrote: »

Yes and doesn't the same apply to the enumerator, she tried to change the OP's answer because she decided that he broke the rules, she then broke the rules herself.

But she correctly spotted the wrong answer, as the OP stated he did this as a protest, not out of any true belief in Jedi. The OP should have protested to the enumerator at the time but didn't.

The OP has admitted to lying on an official document so does he now have any credibility?

Tayla

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

There is no justification for lying on the census. Anyone that does doesn't deserve to be taken seriously as an individual.

:rolleyes: Oh come on, that's a bit of a dramatic statement. The Catholic church don't deserve to be considered a religion considering their past actions but yet they are but yet someone tells a little white lie on the census form and they don't deserve to be taken seriously as an individual.....alrighty!

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

The enumerator was trying to improve the quality of the raw data that was to be presented for analysis.

I don't care what she was trying to do, it's against the rules which you seem to be fond of.

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

Liars like the OP, waste census staff resources as the form has to be manually processed.

Well if the government haven't yet adjusted the system to allow for the Jedi response then where the hell have they been? This is gaining momentum worldwide and the UK has assigned Jedi it's own code to enable processing, if the Irish government can't do similar then it's their own fault if they have to manually process forms.

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

They also corrupt the statistics. The OP was to blame. If he had answered truthfully this situation would never have arisen. Also if he had let sleeping dogs lie and allowed the truthful answer to remain on the form, this situation would also never have arisen.
All I can see is that the enumerator misunderstood the guidelines for dealing with bullshit answers and difficult individuals. The enumerators job is tough enough as it is without people intentionally making life more difficult for them.

The census director himself that people who wanted to call themselves witches or Jedi could not be stopped, perhaps the enumerator was asleep during that part of their training because no doubt the question came up!

Tayla

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

But she correctly spotted the wrong answer, as the OP stated he did this as a protest, not out of any true belief in Jedi. The OP should have protested to the enumerator at the time but didn't.

The OP has admitted to lying on an official document so does he now have any credibility?

It wasn't a WRONG answer.
It's a voluntary question, the director also said that "If people really want to express their religious affiliation in a particular way, they're within their rights to do so."

oppenheimer1

Tayla wrote: »

It wasn't a WRONG answer.
It's a voluntary question, the director also said that "If people really want to express their religious affiliation in a particular way, they're within their rights to do so."

It was a wrong answer. The OP stated he answered that way as a protest, not that he was actually Jedi.

The correct answer in his case would have not to give an answer at all or to tick no religion.

It is that simple.

Tayla

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

It was a wrong answer. The OP stated he answered that way as a protest, not that he was actually Jedi.

The correct answer in his case would have not to give an answer at all or to tick no religion.

It is that simple.

The directors comments never said anything about actually having to believe in the Jedi religion.
There are no rules to stop people from writing Jedi.

It's that simple.

oppenheimer1

Tayla wrote: »

:rolleyes: Oh come on, that's a bit of a dramatic statement. The Catholic church don't deserve to be considered a religion considering their past actions but yet they are but yet someone tells a little white lie on the census form and they don't deserve to be taken seriously as an individual.....alrighty!

This thread is not about the rights or wrongs of the Catholic Church. This is not a little white lie as you might think, it is lying on an official document. I stand by my remark that liars don't deserve to be taken seriously.

I don't care what she was trying to do, it's against the rules which you seem to be fond of.

Protecting the integrity of the census data is part of the job of the enumerator. The change was made in front of the OP at which point he could have intervened. I do not trust the Ops version of events anyway as he has freely admitted to lying on official documents. He has no credibility.

Well if the government haven't yet adjusted the system to allow for the Jedi response then where the hell have they been? This is gaining momentum worldwide and the UK has assigned Jedi it's own code to enable processing, if the Irish government can't do similar then it's their own fault if they have to manually process forms.

The Jedi response is hand written so automated machine generally cannot be used to process the answer, either here or in the UK. The short code which the UK uses is for the data processing after visual verification.




The census director himself that people who wanted to call themselves witches or Jedi could not be stopped, perhaps the enumerator was asleep during that part of their training because no doubt the question came up![/QUOTE]

oppenheimer1

Tayla wrote: »

The directors comments never said anything about actually having to believe in the Jedi religion.
There are no rules to stop people from writing Jedi.

It's that simple.

There are. The census is meant to be filled out in good faith and truthfully. The OP has stated that the answer was given in protest, not that because he was Jedi. I have already explained to you the correct answer for "protesting". It is that simple.

I would have no problem with him giving the answer as Jedi if he were one, but he isn't. If everyone engages in these "white lies" as you call them, then the census becomes a worthless expensive exercise.

But hey as long as the OP had his fun thats all that matters. To hell with the census and its integrity.

Tayla

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

This thread is not about the rights or wrongs of the Catholic Church. This is not a little white lie as you might think, it is lying on an official document. I stand by my remark that liars don't deserve to be taken seriously.

It's a voluntary question, the director said people could write Jedi if they wished.

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

Protecting the integrity of the census data is part of the job of the enumerator. The change was made in front of the OP at which point he could have intervened. I do not trust the Ops version of events anyway as he has freely admitted to lying on official documents. He has no credibility.

I don't think tampering with forms is protecting the integrity of the census. I don't trust any of the data collected by that particular enumerator because she has been proven to tamper with forms, She also has no credibility.

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

The Jedi response is hand written so automated machine generally cannot be used to process the answer, either here or in the UK. The short code which the UK uses is for the data processing after visual verification.

The government expected this answer, if they want to make life difficult for themselves when they have a simple solution then that's really their problem isn't it?

15,000 Czechs chose Jedi in their last census, Stanislav Drapal, deputy head of the statistical office said “We included this option despite a fierce debate over whether it’s serious or not. But it’s not up to statisticians to say what is or is not a religion,”

oppenheimer1

Tayla wrote: »

It's a voluntary question, the director said people could write Jedi if they wished.

Of course they could write it if they wished provided it is an accurate description.

Tayla

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

There are. The census is meant to be filled out in good faith and truthfully. The OP has stated that the answer was given in protest, not that because he was Jedi. I have already explained to you the correct answer for "protesting". It is that simple.

I would have no problem with him giving the answer as Jedi if he were one, but he isn't. If everyone engages in these "white lies" as you call them, then the census becomes a worthless expensive exercise.

You don't make the rules, the director didn't say you actually had to be a Jedi.This is a voluntary question, Personally I think that the Jedi answer says a lot about peoples thoughts on religion and in particular the Catholic church so the state should consider the changing attitudes of the people .

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

But hey as long as the OP had his fun thats all that matters. To hell with the census and its integrity.

It lost it's integrity when they decided to use CICA to conduct it!

Apologies, I have been quoting the UK directors comments as it was printed in the Irish independent with no reference to it being the UK census.

MagicSean

At the end of the census you sign a legal declaration to say you filled the form out to the best of your knowledge and belief. Do you think that someone who rights Jedi as a protest against the catholic church is staying true to that declaration when they are not in fact a Jedi at all.

Tayla

Tayla wrote: »

It lost it's integrity when they decided to use CICA to conduct it!

If this were true then any company using an IBM computer would lack integrity.

As for the rest of your posting, it's all nonsense really. The entire matter here is really quite simple:

1. Do you have a statutory obligation to tell the truth on the Census form? Yes

2. Does the person referred to in the OP actually believe that he is a "Jedi"? No, he admits it was a form of protest only and not a statement of religious belief

3. Does giving a knowingly false answer on a Census form constitute an offence? Yes

4. Therefore, did the OP, who admits to wilfully giving an answer on the Census form which he knew was untrue, commit an offence? Yes

Now, it doesn't really matter if Jedi is more or less of a fairy story than Christianity or Buddhism or whatever. That's a red herring of an argument. It's like arguing over whether it's ok to steal Kit Kats because they're tastier than Mars bars and therefore the temptation is higher. It's an irrelevant consideration. The only actual considerations are the mindset of the person filling out the form and the veracity of the answer.

As for the enumerator, she did not alter the form in secret. She attempted to clarify the answer with the person's knowledge. There was no intent to deceive, unlike the OP, or to further a social agenda, also like the OP, but rather an attempt to do her job properly to ensure the data was as accurate as possible. Enumerators have a terrifically tough job and, while reasonably remunerated, do so under less than ideal working conditions. While her course of action was admittedly beyond her scope of authority it had none of the hallmarks of dishonesty or misfeasance unlike the OP who clearly attempted to abuse a critical social document for his/her own social agenda or amusement.

Jesus Shaves

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

If his religion was Jedi then of course he should have put it down. He did state in his OP that he answered the question in that way to register an abstention/protest (against what, who knows?). The fact is he has stated he has a religious belief when he most likely doesn't have one. His lie on the form has corrupted the statistic. The question wouldn't be asked if it wasn't important.

If he is willing to lie and make a declaration of truth for this, can the rest of the data on his form be trusted to be accurate. Sure wouldn't it also be a great protest/laugh to say he was an African traveller with a PhD that lives in a 40 room house?

He should be prosecuted and fined. The census is too important for pricking about and acting the bollocks with. I have a very low opinion of the OP, much lower now that he went to the CSO and possibly lost the enumerator the chance to work on the census again. All for what - the ability to make a false declaration. I hope you're proud of yourself.

In fairness religion is a joke anyway so i reckon he put a perfectly acceptable answer
If you feel that highly about it i think maybe you should report him to the census police