2011 Census enumerator edited 'my religion' when collecting my form

gj777

Hi,
I know what some are thinking already and yes: it's the 'Jedi thing' ...BUT what I wrote on my form is not the point - I was just informed that when the enumerator collected our form back last April, they opened it up, checked that section and actually scribbled out my entry because I wrote Jedi. Apparently he mumbled 'we don't allow that anymore' or something!

Are they allowed to do this? I would be surprised if this is not an invasion of privacy of some kind. Honestly I'm not sure if we are even legally obliged to fill the census out at all, but if we are then surely the provided info can't be edited by anyone other than the person who's name is at the top of the page? From the signed declaration I believe we must be accurate - so surely that doesn't give the right to anyone to dispute my entries with out discussion, especially the only subjective entry: what religion I consider myself?

This is really an academic concern about what the enumerator can do with forms, I'm not concerned with whether one is actually a practising member of whatever faith and so what one 'should' write on the forms. Which is basically related to why I put Jedi on my forms.
If anyone cares about why I do it I can tell them, but that's not my point here.
I'm not trying to defend religious practice or establish Jedi as anything, I'm just shocked that apparently the enumerator knows what religion I am and has the right to correct how I represent myself.
I can understand that the counters might get a bit sick of it, but that's not my problem. To me the Jedi thing is a kind of alternative to a typical vote abstention or vote spoiling, and I should have the right to do that ...right?

Anyone have any insights into this?

Thanks all, live long and... wait, no.

Edit: according to the census.ie site, yes we're legally obliged to complete the form.

psychward

gj777 wrote: »

Thanks all, live long and... wait, no.

You may have meant :

May the force be with you

Response: And also with you


Seriously I think the census is legally compulsory. Many people have a problem with this.

coylemj

psychward wrote: »

You may have meant :

May the force be with you

Response: And also with you

No, the response is now 'and with your spirit' - changes to the liturgy implemented recently. Get with the program or pick a different religion!

MadsL

No, the response is now 'and with your spirit' - changes to the liturgy implemented recently. Get with the program or pick a different religion!

They changed the mass to include "May the force be with you" :eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:


Oh, wait...

MrStuffins

It's Jan 2012.

Maybe he thought you were taking the piss because you were handing in your census form 8 months late!

coylemj

gj777 wrote: »

Are they allowed to do this? I would be surprised if this is not an invasion of privacy of some kind. Honestly I'm not sure if we are even legally obliged to fill the census out at all, but if we are then surely the provided info can't be edited by anyone other than the person who's name is at the top of the page? From the signed declaration I believe we must be accurate - so surely that doesn't give the right to anyone to dispute my entries with out discussion, especially the only subjective entry: what religion I consider myself?

It goes something like this:

They decide on a breakpoint for religion meaning that if something like 99% (the breakpoint) of the population falls into (say) 12 different religions (plus atheists) then they make a decision that everyone who doesn't tick one of those 12 religions and who doesn't tick 'none' is categorised as 'other', you obviously fall into this category.

The alternative is that they would have to deal with 101 different religions which would increase the expense of processing the census returns and it would produce a list of religions as long as your arm with only a handful of people claiming allegiance to each of them. Statistically this data would be worthless as clearly (using your case as an example) very few of them would be bona fide religions in the accepted meaning of the word.

They have to draw the line somewhere and you were below it so I suspect the enumerator changed your religion from 'Jedi' to 'Other'.

Is it a breach of privacy? Hardly, since the forms will be locked away for 100 years.

oppenheimer1

gj777 wrote: »

Hi,
I know what some are thinking already and yes: it's the 'Jedi thing' ...BUT what I wrote on my form is not the point - I was just informed that when the enumerator collected our form back last April, they opened it up, checked that section and actually scribbled out my entry because I wrote Jedi. Apparently he mumbled 'we don't allow that anymore' or something!

Are they allowed to do this? I would be surprised if this is not an invasion of privacy of some kind. Honestly I'm not sure if we are even legally obliged to fill the census out at all, but if we are then surely the provided info can't be edited by anyone other than the person who's name is at the top of the page? From the signed declaration I believe we must be accurate - so surely that doesn't give the right to anyone to dispute my entries with out discussion, especially the only subjective entry: what religion I consider myself?

This is really an academic concern about what the enumerator can do with forms, I'm not concerned with whether one is actually a practising member of whatever faith and so what one 'should' write on the forms. Which is basically related to why I put Jedi on my forms.
If anyone cares about why I do it I can tell them, but that's not my point here.
I'm not trying to defend religious practice or establish Jedi as anything, I'm just shocked that apparently the enumerator knows what religion I am and has the right to correct how I represent myself.
I can understand that the counters might get a bit sick of it, but that's not my problem. To me the Jedi thing is a kind of alternative to a typical vote abstention or vote spoiling, and I should have the right to do that ...right?

Anyone have any insights into this?

Thanks all, live long and... wait, no.

Edit: according to the census.ie site, yes we're legally obliged to complete the form.

He knows you're not Jedi and therefore lied when you signed the form at the back stating it was completed in honesty and truth. You were taking the piss with the census, which depends on honesty of all participants to make it worthwhile.

If you wanted to abstain why didn't you tick the box "none/no religion"? Would that not have been the honest answer?

MrStuffins

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

He knows you're not Jedi and therefore lied when you signed the form at the back stating it was completed in honesty and truth. You were taking the piss with the census, which depends on honesty of all participants to make it worthwhile.

If you wanted to abstain why didn't you tick the box "none/no religion"? Would that not have been the honest answer?

How did he know his religion isn't Jedi? Who is the enumerator to decide the beliefs of the invidual citizen?

What if I was to take someone's form and say "Hang on.... Catholic? You believe that a man in the sky sent his son back to earth 2000 years ago who became a zombie and proceeded to walk on water and perform miricles? Ballocks! I'm changing this!"?? Would you still disagree then?

How do you know it was the enumerator?

On a sidenote the Census is actually a vital element of any democracy since representation is based on population and proper provision of services and the drafting of social policies are, in a large part, influenced by census data. Acting the bollox and putting "Jedi" down for your religion and then getting all full of righteous indignation when the CSO ignore your bull**** answer is pretty lame.

Cliffs: Fill in the form properly.

MrStuffins

MrStuffins wrote: »

How did he know his religion isn't Jedi? Who is the enumerator to decide the beliefs of the invidual citizen?

What if I was to take someone's form and say "Hang on.... Catholic? You believe that a man in the sky sent his son back to earth 2000 years ago who became a zombie and proceeded to walk on water and perform miricles? Ballocks! I'm changing this!"?? Would you still disagree then?

Strawman says what?

coylemj

MrStuffins wrote: »

How did he know his religion isn't Jedi? Who is the enumerator to decide the beliefs of the invidual citizen?

What if I was to take someone's form and say "Hang on.... Catholic? You believe that a man in the sky sent his son back to earth 2000 years ago who became a zombie and proceeded to walk on water and perform miricles? Ballocks! I'm changing this!"?? Would you still disagree then?

It's about statistics, it is not a judgement on the merits or otherwise of individual religions.

If you don't fall into the top 99% (including atheists) then you are 'other', end of story.

Victor

Oh, its it possible that people are winding you up?

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

He knows you're not Jedi and therefore lied when you signed the form at the back stating it was completed in honesty and truth.

It is an offence to tamper with a census form.

johnnyskeleton

Victor wrote: »

It is an offence to tamper with a census form.

what about where you don't physically tamper with it but use a Jedi mind trick to make the enumerator do it? I think the OP should be aware that it was not the enumerator who wanted it to be changed, it was the Jedi council.

So, probelms has he with this issue, with them he should take it up.

MagicSean

Victor wrote: »

Oh, its it possible that people are winding you up?It is an offence to tamper with a census form.

And also an offence to lie on it isn't it?

28064212

MagicSean wrote: »

And also an offence to lie on it isn't it?

Depends on how you define the terms "religion" and "Jedi" (and "lie" I guess). The Jedi religion can be taken as a declaration of no or other religion, but you're specifically pointing out the inherent flaw in the system.

But the most important part...

MrStuffins wrote: »

It's Jan 2012.

gj777

Well, I took the (massive) effort of emailing the cso about this to see what would happen and I received a reply:
---
In response to your email regarding Question 12 - religion - on the census
form, there have been a number of internet campaigns urging the public to
write the term “Jedi” on their Census form as their religion. The “Jedi”
census campaign also got attention in the media. Our Census enumerator
would have been aware of this. In the circumstances our enumerator should
have asked you to clarify your religion and got you to amend your census
form if necessary. We have checked your Census form and we can see that the
enumerator struck through “Jedi” but has not asked you to put in an
amendment. I must apologise for the Enumerators lack of diligence. As a
result of your email we have reinstated Jedi as your response on your
Census form.

Thank you for taking time to contact us,

Kind regards
......
Census Field Management
Swords
Co Dublin

---

So it seems that the enumerator was in fact wrong to 'correct' my entry without my permission. I replied and expressed my appreciation for respecting my right to represent myself as I choose. I also pointed out that how I came influenced to the decision is not really relevant (I've only ever heard of this thing through word of mouth anyway, and I'm sure there's an online campaign or two for other religions).

Again, the merits of entering Jedi as a religion is not my point here - some seem to be hung on that aspect. Whether it's a valid religion or not is a debate that belongs in a philosophy post. In my humble opinion it's as valid as any other entry (part of the reason I put it in, and I'm not an atheist btw). If anyone is bothered debating that aspect with me I'm up for a laugh. Either way, for this topic, assume that being a member of a religion called Jedi is valid and isn't dishonest - sorry if I wasn't clear the first post.

If I am 'seriously', 'acting the bollox' with a question on the form that is disputable then fine, any reasonably minded enumerator can go ahead and change my form without my permission, circumstances allowing. e.g. if they are running late and I wrote the wrong door number on my address for example, they can clearly see I made an error. Or if I wrote Buckingham palace or other such bolxry. But since religion is a gaping wide grey area, then editing without consulting is bolxry in the first.
Also if the cso don't want to count the 'minority religious groups' for logistical or bugetry reasons, then why have an option to provide the info at all? I wouldn't hold it against them if they left it as an 'Other' tickbox without the blank line, especially if ninty something % fall in the rest of the groups. Additionally what parts of the info they count and how they evaluate it after it's collected is not under my control (I'm not really an 'every Sunday' Jedi), so if they want to ignore it in the end there's not much I can do. It's the audacity of 'correcting' what is acceptable and what isn't that has me ranting.

In any case, it may seem trivial to some, but I'm a fan of little moral victories; taking care of the details means the big picture takes care of itself. I'm sure the christians had a hard time getting accepted when they were being asked the same thing not too long ago. Atleast Jedi's have their book made into a decent film

Victor

gj777 wrote: »

We have checked your Census form and we can see that the
enumerator struck through “Jedi” but has not asked you to put in an
amendment.

How do they know its you? They aren't allowed disclose individual information on a census form.

Tayla

When they came to collect my families census form the enumerator started reading through it and quizzing my OH on his answers. She actually didn't mention anything about the fact that Jedi was written on it but started questioning him on other aspects.

Who do they think they are?

Victor

Victor wrote: »

How do they know its you? They aren't allowed disclose individual information on a census form.

The CSO just changed a Census answer based on someone emailing them and then they went and checked the physical form out of the million or so they received and changed it?

I'm not necessarily doubting that she's telling the truth just I'd be pretty annoyed if the CSO did that.

Victor

Deleted User wrote: »

.. then they went and checked the physical form ...

No, they looked at the scanned image on their computer.

MagicSean

Well done op. you've probably ensured that enumerator doesn't get hired next time around just so you can have a laugh with your census. I hope the attention you've brought on yourself results in your prosecution for lying on your form.

28064212

MagicSean wrote: »

Well done op. you've probably ensured that enumerator doesn't get hired next time around just so you can have a laugh with your census. I hope the attention you've brought on yourself results in your prosecution for lying on your form.

The enumerator shouldn't be hired again if they think it's ok to change someone else's census answers

MagicSean

28064212 wrote: »

The enumerator shouldn't be hired again if they think it's ok to change someone else's census answers

Sure, and the op should be prosecuted for lying on the form.

28064212

MagicSean wrote: »

Sure, and the op should be prosecuted for lying on the form.

How has he lied? The question on religion is entirely self-defined. If the OP could be prosecuted for lying, so could every single "Catholic" who doesn't go to mass anymore

Jesus Shaves

I put "I follow the beliefs and teachings of the great Darren"
I didn't lie

MagicSean

28064212 wrote: »

How has he lied? The question on religion is entirely self-defined. If the OP could be prosecuted for lying, so could every single "Catholic" who doesn't go to mass anymore

A catholic will have been baptised into the religion so that's not really a good comparison.

MagicSean

darokane wrote: »

I put "I follow the beliefs and teachings of the great Darren"
I didn't lie

How did you even fit that in?

28064212

MagicSean wrote: »

A catholic will have been baptised into the religion so that's not really a good comparison.

So now people who were baptised will be prosecuted for not answering Catholic, since there's no way to actually leave the RCC?

Jesus Shaves

MagicSean wrote: »

How did you even fit that in?

tiny writing

MagicSean

28064212 wrote: »

So now people who were baptised will be prosecuted for not answering Catholic, since there's no way to actually leave the RCC?

Yes there is. You can say "I'm not going to be Catholic" and there you have it. Just so were clear here. I have no problem with someone claiming they are Jedi if they do believe in the force and the presence of mediclorians. However when mindless sheep put it down as some kind of rebellion against nothing but harm the overall benefit of the census.

28064212

MagicSean wrote: »

Yes there is. You can say "I'm not going to be Catholic" and there you have it.

So you self-define yourself as not Catholic. What if you still go to mass at Christmas time, or for weddings, funerals and baptisms? If you put down atheist, are you lying then? What if you don't believe in God, but have been baptised, are you lying when you say Catholic?

The question is the only one on the census that is entirely defined by the person answering it. It is impossible to lie on it.

MagicSean wrote: »

Just so were clear here. I have no problem with someone claiming they are Jedi if they do believe in the force and the presence of mediclorians. However when mindless sheep put it down as some kind of rebellion against nothing but harm the overall benefit of the census.

You're assuming the Jedi answer means they follow the Jedi way as depicted in the Star Wars film. To many, the Jedi answer is a statement that they believe asking a self-defined question in a census is irrelevant, or that it is inherently flawed. That is, those are the central beliefs of their 'religion'

Thephantomsmask

MagicSean wrote: »

A catholic will have been baptised into the religion so that's not really a good comparison.

Babies are hardly asked to provide consent before having water doused upon them so people generally aren't entering the religion by choice and unfortunately, one cannot leave once joined due to the Vatican removing the ability to excommunicate.

MagicSean

28064212 wrote: »

So you self-define yourself as not Catholic. What if you still go to mass at Christmas time, or for weddings, funerals and baptisms? If you put down atheist, are you lying then? What if you don't believe in God, but have been baptised, are you lying when you say Catholic?

The question is the only one on the census that is entirely defined by the person answering it. It is impossible to lie on it.


You're assuming the Jedi answer means they follow the Jedi way as depicted in the Star Wars film. To many, the Jedi answer is a statement that they believe asking a self-defined question in a census is irrelevant, or that it is inherently flawed. That is, those are the central beliefs of their 'religion'

Catholicism is a system of beliefs based on the belief in some sort of deity.

What you describe as Jedi is a political view.

Thephantomsmask wrote: »

Babies are hardly asked to provide consent before having water doused upon them so people generally aren't entering the religion by choice and unfortunately, one cannot leave once joined due to the Vatican removing the ability to excommunicate.

Parents are assumed to make decisions for their children. That is why children are able to have surgery and medical treatment without their doctors being prosecuted for assault. You cannot leave a church because you don't belong to them, it is a belief system only.

28064212

MagicSean wrote: »

Catholicism is a system of beliefs based on the belief in some sort of deity.

What you describe as Jedi is a political view.

What's the deity of Buddhism? Scientology? You don't have to look very hard for 'religions' that stretch that definition.

The answer to the religion question is entirely self-defined. Any answer is correct (as well as no answer)

Thephantomsmask

MagicSean wrote: »

Parents are assumed to make decisions for their children. That is why children are able to have surgery and medical treatment without their doctors being prosecuted for assault. You cannot leave a church because you don't belong to them, it is a belief system only.

You posted that catholics are baptised in response to somebody asking could a catholic be prosecuted for lying for not attending mass versus someone lying for "choosing" Jedi. Parents make decisions for their children so yes, a lot of catholics are members by their parents choice, not THEIR choice as I said so your post that the two were not a fair comparison is flawed, the majority of catholics had their faith, or lack there of, forced upon them. You will also find that the Vatican considers all baptised catholics, whether lapsed or self defining as another religion, to still be members of the church. All avenues of defection from the catholic church were removed by the Vatican ergo people cannot officially renounce a faith that was forced upon them. I can claim I am an atheist all I want but according to the fella over in Rome I'm still one of them.

Tayla

MagicSean wrote: »

Just so were clear here. I have no problem with someone claiming they are Jedi if they do believe in the force and the presence of mediclorians.

That doesn't make sense because an awful lot of people who write down Catholic as their religion do not believe in it at all, yet you're saying you should only write yedi down if you actually believe in the force etc, do you not have a problem when Catholics only in name choose Catholic as their religion, do they not have to actually believe in it just because you and the state consider it to be a 'proper' religion?

I don't even know if there's a name for what I currently believe in, yet we're supposed to choose a religion that fits into their group of acceptable religions?

MagicSean wrote: »

However when mindless sheep put it down as some kind of rebellion against nothing but harm the overall benefit of the census.

Mindless sheep...a bit like when people who are Catholic only on the census form or when it comes to christening their babies so that they can have a day out.

MagicSean

28064212 wrote: »

What's the deity of Buddhism? Scientology? You don't have to look very hard for 'religions' that stretch that definition.

The answer to the religion question is entirely self-defined. Any answer is correct (as well as no answer)

They may stretch the definition but they still fall under it. The belief that a census question is wrong does not fall under any possible definition of religion.

Thephantomsmask wrote: »

You posted that catholics are baptised in response to somebody asking could a catholic be prosecuted for lying for not attending mass versus someone lying for "choosing" Jedi. Parents make decisions for their children so yes, a lot of catholics are members by their parents choice, not THEIR choice as I said so your post that the two were not a fair comparison is flawed, the majority of catholics had their faith, or lack there of, forced upon them. You will also find that the Vatican considers all baptised catholics, whether lapsed or self defining as another religion, to still be members of the church. All avenues of defection from the catholic church were removed by the Vatican ergo people cannot officially renounce a faith that was forced upon them. I can claim I am an atheist all I want but according to the fella over in Rome I'm still one of them.

Who cares what the fella over in Rome thinks? If you do then maybe you should consider wether you have in fact fully renounced your faith.

From a legal perspective, if you were charged with lying on the census by saying you were a Catholic when but you never go to mass then a baptismal cert would be a strong defense. If you were charged with lying by saying you were not a Catholic even though you were baptised then you could easily point to your lack of practice as a show of you no longer being a Catholic. On the other hand, if we were charged with lying by saying you were a Jedi then the only proof you could provide would be your Star Wars collection which, as Thepahntommask has pointed out, would not be acceptable as the Jedi religion has apparently got no connection to Star Wars.

Tayla wrote: »

That doesn't make sense because an awful lot of people who write down Catholic as their religion do not believe in it at all, yet you're saying you should only write yedi down if you actually believe in the force etc, do you not have a problem when Catholics only in name choose Catholic as their religion, do they not have to actually believe in it just because you and the state consider it to be a 'proper' religion?

I do have a problem with it. It's a much more legally defensible claim though.

Tayla wrote: »

I don't even know if there's a name for what I currently believe in, yet we're supposed to choose a religion that fits into their group of acceptable religions?

Agnostic

Tayla wrote: »

Mindless sheep...a bit like when people who are Catholic only on the census form or when it comes to christening their babies so that they can have a day out.

yes, exactly like that.

Tayla

MagicSean wrote: »

Agnostic

I love how you just presume that without any facts at all about what I actually believe in.

MagicSean wrote: »

yes, exactly like that.

Glad you agree!

Tayla

Tayla wrote: »

I don't even know if there's a name for what I currently believe in, yet we're supposed to choose a religion that fits into their group of acceptable religions?

Therefore Jedi was a lie since you, by your own admission, aren't practicing a faith identifiable by the moniker "Jedi".

Tayla

Deleted User wrote: »

Therefore Jedi was a lie since you, by your own admission, aren't practicing a faith identifiable by the moniker "Jedi".

Mine didn't say Jedi, my partners did and who gave the enumerator the right to read through it and start questioning parts of it.

MagicSean

Tayla wrote: »

Mine didn't say Jedi, my partners did and who gave the enumerator the right to read through it and start questioning parts of it.

We've established the enumerator was wrong and he'll probably be fired. We're discussing the legality of lying about your religion on the form now.

Tayla

MagicSean wrote: »

We've established the enumerator was wrong and he'll probably be fired. We're discussing the legality of lying about your religion on the form now.

Oh are we? You've decided that the thread is to take this new course have you? Unbelievable!!

Well i'm still discussing the fact that the enumerator breached my partners privacy and started quizzing him on questions she had no right to know the answer to.

28064212

Deleted User wrote: »

Therefore Jedi was a lie since you, by your own admission, aren't practicing a faith identifiable by the moniker "Jedi".

What if Tayla defines the belief:

Tayla wrote: »

I don't even know if there's a name for what I currently believe in, yet we're supposed to choose a religion that fits into their group of acceptable religions?

as their interpretation of the Jedi religion?

Can you give me a definition of "Catholic" that covers every person that put down Catholic on the census? I'll knock off the obvious ones first:

• Belief in any sort of deity
• Goes to mass
• Baptised

None of that list are a requirement to put down Catholic on the census form

MagicSean

Tayla wrote: »

Oh are we? You've decided that the thread is to take this new course have you? Unbelievable!!

Well i'm still discussing the fact that the enumerator breached my partners privacy and started quizzing him on questions she had no right to know the answer to.

What do you want to discuss about it? It's already been dealt with. The census people wrote back saying the enumerator was in the wrong.

28064212 wrote: »

What if Tayla defines the belief:

as their interpretation of the Jedi religion?

Why would she do that when that is not a religion?

28064212 wrote: »

Can you give me a definition of "Catholic" that covers every person that put down Catholic on the census? I'll knock off the obvious ones first:

• Belief in any sort of deity
• Goes to mass
• Baptised

None of that list are a requirement to put down Catholic on the census form

Exactly. There is no requirement to put down Catholic. That does not mean there is a right to put down whatever you want.

28064212

MagicSean wrote: »

Why would she do that when that is not a religion?

Define religion (a definition that won't make a sizable minority liable to be fined based on their census answers)

MagicSean wrote: »

Exactly. There is no requirement to put down Catholic. That does not mean there is a right to put down whatever you want.

You misunderstood what I said. What definition of Catholic covers every person who put down Catholic in the census?

28064212

28064212 wrote: »

Define religion (a definition that won't make a sizable minority liable to be fined based on their census answers)

It's what the person reasonably and with good faith believes themselves to be for the purposes of the question.

No person could reasonably believe themselves to be a Jedi therefore anyone putting down that answer would prima facie be guilty of an offence.

Obviously that's just my own opinion of what a reasonable test for it would be but I think it satisfies all the necessary criteria.

28064212

Deleted User wrote: »

It's what the person reasonably and with good faith believes themselves to be for the purposes of the question.

No person could reasonably believe themselves to be a Jedi therefore anyone putting down that answer would prima facie be guilty of an offence.

You're making the same assumption I pointed out earlier in the thread, assuming that "Jedi" means believing in the tenets stated in the Star Wars films. Instead, it can just be a belief that a question on religion in the census is absurd, or that it's just another word for a particular subset of agnostics, or that people should be allowed state whatever religion they want.

zuroph

Deleted User wrote: »

It's what the person reasonably and with good faith believes themselves to be for the purposes of the question.

No person could reasonably believe themselves to be a Jedi therefore anyone putting down that answer would prima facie be guilty of an offence.

Obviously that's just my own opinion of what a reasonable test for it would be but I think it satisfies all the necessary criteria.

My personal religious belief is that we all add to a "force" with prayer and faith, and that that "force" rewards/aids us when we need it most, a sort of collective share pot of support, to be dipped into as needed. Now, I also believe that everyones religious belief is their own personal belief and is intrinsically different from person to person. But I cant fit all that in the box, so "Jedi" would be the closest fit.

Consider the Catholic church no longer let people leave, pending a policy review, anyone who was catholic but now considers themselves atheist, could also be deemed to be lying, depending on whether you give the catholic church any right to hold onto "ownership" of the person.

knird evol

With all these moral dilemas I think you should ask yourself
the simple question 'what would Luke Skywalker have done'?

Tayla

MagicSean wrote: »

What do you want to discuss about it? It's already been dealt with. The census people wrote back saying the enumerator was in the wrong.

I'm not the OP, this is a seperate issue but related to the theme of the thread which is basically the enumerators abusing their position. The enumerator who picked up the census form quizzed my partner on his answers, including the medical answers.

MagicSean wrote: »

Why would she do that when that is not a religion?

To you it's not, to some it is, I could argue that the Catholic church isn't a religion either but here is not the place for it.

28064212

28064212 wrote: »

You're making the same assumption I pointed out earlier in the thread, assuming that "Jedi" means believing in the tenets stated in the Star Wars films. Instead, it can just be a belief that a question on religion in the census is absurd, or that it's just another word for a particular subset of agnostics, or that people should be allowed state whatever religion they want.

That's what the "no religion" option was for. Religion implying an organised religion of course.

If you have a problem with the census forms then write a letter to the CSO or your TD. The census is an extremely important document and should be filled out properly. Otherwise we can't rely on the data collected and that effects things such as whether or not parts of Swords are in one electoral district or another and what provisions should be made for expanding populations.

Religion is a thing whether you, I or Boba Fett like it or not. It's a reasonable question to ask because we believe in religious equality in this country (these days) and the free expression of that religion, something our President so excellently demonstrated at his inauguration, and in order to allow proper long term social planning we need to know who actually lives here and, among a great number of other things, what religious faith, or not, they believe in.

Jedi has a plain definition. In fact it is a registered trademark. Therefore when anyone puts it down on the census form that is the plain understanding of the word that someone should take from it. I can't put down that I have 11 children and then decide that the number 11 isn't actually the number that people think it is but rather my way of making the important social point that the Government has underfunded childcare in this country. Words have meanings and Jedi has a very well defined one.