Female bullies-why do so many women have to make others feel like crap?!

lir6777

I'm in my mid-20s and have to write to see whether I am the only female in the country who finds there is no sisterhood anymore?!
I've experienced a form of bullying which (in my opinion) only girls and women commit. It's subtle, easy to excuse, and doesn't make them look like obvious bullies- but none the less it is calculated, cruel and devastating to self-esteem- I'm talking about that woman who can't feel part of a female group of friends without ensuring there is one woman constantly left on the outside.
I have one particular person in mind here, but have experienced this bullying at the hands of another girl in my teens also. These people make plans for the group and 'forget' to invite one person; they will usually be nice to that person's face, but will do their best to keep them away from every event and outing. Despite confronting this woman last year about a particularly irrititating incident when I was not told about a meal for a friend who returned home after a year abroad, she continues to do this. She got pissed off when I approached her about that incident, telling her I was upset and wouldn't leave any one individual out the way she had. She ignored me for a week before sending a phony-sweet email explaining that it had been a misunderstanding- some excuse for a week's work!
I know people will say to stay away from her, and I do, but the problem is several of my friends are the people she invites to these things, so I end up missing out a lot. Sadly, although I've never caused any sort of row, when I have mentioned to these friends that I was not invited to x event, they pretty much refuse to talk about it, presumably not wanting to take sides.
Now, I'm an adult, and fully aware that I need to work on my own issues so that this woman can't affect me this way- that's a work in progress!! But my question is, do other women find this happening to them? That one woman who appears so friendly and popular, but targets one person, probably in an attempt to boost her own sense of inclusion?! I could never knowingly let this happen to another person- it breaks my heart to see anyone left out. If this post either starts a discussion on the issue, or makes one person think twice before deciding whether or not to send that invitation to that one person, I'll be really happy.
'There's no 'i' in 'women'- but there's a 'w-e' '

sillyruby

yup for me i never experienced as a child or teenager but as an adult. someone i considered my friend , it took a long time to realise what she was doing as i dismissed it for ages. Girls can be very calculated, vicious and subtle in their actions in the end i did confronted her in public and she no longer had to hide behind the nice exterior. In the end i completely cut her off and blanked her i wouldnt engage her no matter what she said. In the end she disappeared out of my life thank goodness!

lir6777

sillyruby wrote: »

yup for me i never experienced as a child or teenager but as an adult. someone i considered my friend , it took a long time to realise what she was doing as i dismissed it for ages. Girls can be very calculated, vicious and subtle in their actions in the end i did confronted her in public and she no longer had to hide behind the nice exterior. In the end i completely cut her off and blanked her i wouldnt engage her no matter what she said. In the end she disappeared out of my life thank goodness!

Good for you for confronting her. It's sad how false girls can be- it makes it hard to trust anyone once you've experienced this kind of two-facedness. The more people like you and I confront them, the better- in my case, the person would hate to be considered a bully, but that's what she is and pointing out hurtful actions might wise her up!

sillyruby

to be honest i strongly believe in karma, iv encountered her twice since and its fair to say karma came back to bite her big time she couldnt even meet my eye and hid from me out of embarrassment!

lisasimpson

sillyruby wrote: »

to be honest i strongly believe in karma, iv encountered her twice since and its fair to say karma came back to bite her big time she couldnt even meet my eye and hid from me out of embarrassment!

me too. well done for standing up see how far that behaviour will get her in the next ten years. i think in 20s woman can get worse tbh. i had one experience where i had a so called friend who wouldnt keep quite about someone i was seeing (it was new and a work place thing) she kept passing comments making things really obvious once i told her to go tell people there was nothing to talk about when we finished she rounded on me and went telling people i was blaming her for the split. same girl also outted someone she use to work with

Storminateacup

Why are you crying about not being invited somewhere and if you dislike the way this woman treats you then why don't you organise something where you don't need an invitation?

Women are bitchy, no doubt but I will admit to being baffled as to why adults label being left out of an event as "bullying". It's definately not nice and not something that nice people would do but why would you want to associate with someone like that anyway? It's a harsh reality but a certain person might not like you and might not want to hang out with you, and while that's not a nice feeling, is it really bullying?

MissFlitworth

Maybe I've been very lucky with my friends but I have genuinely never had anything like that happen. Not since I was in my teens when we were all a bit mental with hormones and general teenage paranoia about not being cool or what have you.

Having said that I wouldn't hang out with all my friends all at once. It would be very rare for our entire 'group' to go out together (mainly because it's a group made up loosely of lots of different little groups who might have feck all in common bar a very close friendship with one person)

It'd be fairly normal to meet up with a couple of them for coffee and some more for dinner. I'm going away in May for a bit with 2 of my friends, we haven't invited the entire group of people we'd be mutual friends with because if you do that you end up basically needing to hire a mini bus! Also, I'd have groups of friends who wouldn't necessarily get on with each other, just because they're very different people who I've met at different times in my life. I also have friends who are truly lovely people but experience has taught me that I will not enjoy doing certain things with them. Same as I don't get invited to go to festivals when people are going, I'm a terrible festival goer

That was a bit waffley, guess what I was getting at is that it's not always bullying or exclusion when you aren't invited along to everything a group of people are doing. Unless, of course, the whole group heads out to do something together and you're deliberately excluded, which sounds like what's happening in your case.

lir6777

Storminateacup wrote: »

Why are you crying about not being invited somewhere and if you dislike the way this woman treats you then why don't you organise something where you don't need an invitation?

Women are bitchy, no doubt but I will admit to being baffled as to why adults label being left out of an event as "bullying". It's definately not nice and not something that nice people would do but why would you want to associate with someone like that anyway? It's a harsh reality but a certain person might not like you and might not want to hang out with you, and while that's not a nice feeling, is it really bullying?

I understand your point (but for the record- I never used the word crying!). To me, this is bullying because it's not honest or straight- it's conveying to someone that you dislike them in a very very indirect manner. And in my experience, when a friend asks why you didn't attend a party or meal, and you have to respond that you weren't told about it, that's pretty embarrassing. But that's just my opinion.
I absolutely agree- I definitely don't want to hang out with this person after all this, but why can't women be honest or direct rather than being backhanded and bitchy. It would be so much easier!

Storminateacup

It might be embarrasing but that's your issue and not someone elses, it's not nice, it's indirect, it's petty and rude but bullying? I'm not sure.

In secondary school - I had a friend (from primary school) who used to have her mom go into the principal accusing people of bullying, because she was being "excluded". Her best friend in secondary school was called into the office and accused of bullying her as she was not invited to the cinema one weekend.

This made people cautious of being her friend, and she did go through most of secondary school with no real close friends, and being bullied (really bullied, and not just excluded). As she was my friend, I'd do my best to defend her, often having people turn on me.

However, at the end of 6th year - I was 17 years old, I went out with my friends to a festival that was in my town. We went to the park, drinking of course, and had forgot to text my friend back (she wanted to meet up and see the fireworks) and when I went to the park to see the fireworks she was there with her parents. I was drunk but not drunk enough to go over to speak to her as I knew her mom would freak out. I said hello and kept walking on.

The next morning (a month away from my 18th birthday) my mom recieved a call from this girls mom accusing me of being badly reared and being a bully, leaving her out and upsetting her.

It was never my intention and i had always went out of my way to invite her to things despite her being uncool and disliked by my friends.

I can guarantee you after that phonecall she was left out of a lot more things.

gcgirl

Because they are assholes with low self esteem who are trying to buck up the low confidence in themselves, these women are toxic avoid completely

Kiera

gcgirl wrote: »

Because they are assholes with low self esteem who are trying to buck up the low confidence in themselves, these women are toxic avoid completely

Agree. My boss is an insecure, passive aggressive bully. She's been pulled up and warned over it before. These people have nothing else going on in their lives and get kicks out of trying to make people unhappy. The trick here is to ignore them. They get tired pretty quick and you can see the frustration in them when you're not bothered by their actions anymore.

I've even seen it here on boards where they post about their insecurities then go and attack another woman in a different thread and call them the names they have just posted about themselves. Pure toxic.

Dudess

In my experience this sort of person is rare, thankfully. I'm not being smart but I don't understand extreme views like there's possibly no sisterhood anymore.

lir6777

Storminateacup wrote: »

It might be embarrasing but that's your issue and not someone elses, it's not nice, it's indirect, it's petty and rude but bullying? I'm not sure.

In secondary school - I had a friend (from primary school) who used to have her mom go into the principal accusing people of bullying, because she was being "excluded". Her best friend in secondary school was called into the office and accused of bullying her as she was not invited to the cinema one weekend.

This made people cautious of being her friend, and she did go through most of secondary school with no real close friends, and being bullied (really bullied, and not just excluded). As she was my friend, I'd do my best to defend her, often having people turn on me.

However, at the end of 6th year - I was 17 years old, I went out with my friends to a festival that was in my town. We went to the park, drinking of course, and had forgot to text my friend back (she wanted to meet up and see the fireworks) and when I went to the park to see the fireworks she was there with her parents. I was drunk but not drunk enough to go over to speak to her as I knew her mom would freak out. I said hello and kept walking on.

The next morning (a month away from my 18th birthday) my mom recieved a call from this girls mom accusing me of being badly reared and being a bully, leaving her out and upsetting her.

It was never my intention and i had always went out of my way to invite her to things despite her being uncool and disliked by my friends.

I can guarantee you after that phonecall she was left out of a lot more things.

Wow you definitely had your fingers burned- that sounds awful, who wouldn't resent being misunderstood the way you were when you tried to be her friend.
I assure you, I've never made a huge issue of this in that manner- the only confrontation was by me, direct to the girl in question and private (as well as completely civil- no screaming phone calls!). It was never a case of crying wolf- accusing multiples of bullying like in your girl's case suggests a whole other issue to me.
We definitely have different opinions on what is bullying and what isn't, but I admire that you risked your own popularity to stand up for that girl- most teenagers wouldn't do that and I am sorry she didnt seem to see you for the friend you were.

Handsome Bob

Storminateacup wrote: »

Why are you crying about not being invited somewhere and if you dislike the way this woman treats you then why don't you organise something where you don't need an invitation?

Women are bitchy, no doubt but I will admit to being baffled as to why adults label being left out of an event as "bullying". It's definately not nice and not something that nice people would do but why would you want to associate with someone like that anyway? It's a harsh reality but a certain person might not like you and might not want to hang out with you, and while that's not a nice feeling, is it really bullying?

It sounds a little bit more complicated than that though. The OP is being excluded from events involving her friends by one person. If there's an issue between two people within a group, they should be big enough to put those differences a side for the sake of the entire group.

There are people within my circle of friends that I don't really have time for, but I would never make them feel as if they're not welcome as they have real friends within the group, people that they depend on.

No one individual should be allowed to dictate things like that.

Kadent

I don't think I have many female friends to speak of, they still scare me in large groups
I do have a few "fairweather" female friends which means it rarely gets personal and they are just people we might meet for drinks or a meal or something that doesn't involve friendship kind of dynamics. I have one female friend I feel I can trust and it's probably because she's hitting fifty and I can slag her about the menopause

lir6777

Handsome Bob wrote: »

It sounds a little bit more complicated than that though. The OP is being excluded from events involving her friends by one person. If there's an issue between two people within a group, they should be big enough to put those differences a side for the sake of the entire group.

There are people within my circle of friends that I don't really have time for, but I would never make them feel as if they're not welcome as they have real friends within the group, people that they depend on.

No one individual should be allowed to dictate things like that.

Cheers for that- yes you're spot on, it's just the one girl, so it's only when she organises things that problems arise! There was never any issue between us, no row or dispute, perhaps I'm just not her cup of tea but, like you said Handsome Bob, it's not cool to make someone uncomfortable for that. We're a group of friends who all went to school together so can't see the reasoning behind her behaviours myself!

Marzipan85

lir6777 wrote: »

I admire that you risked your own popularity to stand up for that girl

have to say i'm cynical about this viewpoint! then again i'm woefully unpopular.

lir6777

Marzipan85 wrote: »

have to say i'm cynical about this viewpoint! then again i'm woefully unpopular.

Haha- very honest!:o

Marzipan85

the problem you mention definitely happens within my small group of friends. last thing i can think of is a chunk of people not being invited on a weekend away. a lot of the time i just brush it off though, because groups are going to split up to do different things anyway. i just try to be independent-minded, and think of maybe the next thing i'd like to organise i.e. something i definitely won't be left out of!

saa

Everyone knows bullying is not acceptable but our sisters have been brainwashed to think that putting us down is in our best interest.

As if its a womans duty to remind other women of how they a piece of clothing does nothing for them, they might want to start thinking about finding a man, they should really get their roots done.

Bullies are people who have been hurt and usually lack in confidence if all of us were nicer to each other perhaps less women would have to stoop so low to bully another.

LegacyUser

Is that passive-aggressive subtle force of exclusion bullying?

I honestly think that is hard to answer.

But, I certainly know how it feels to be on the receiving end of that same treatment, OP.

The first time when it hit me was when I was excluded from a new years' eve party held in one of our extended group of friends' houses on that night and was left at a loose end with every one of my other friends invited to that party.
That continued throughout college, when a small group of them went on the J1 visa thing together to America, and I was not invited to join their group.

By then I had enough and emigrated. A few years later I came back to Ireland, in a crisis situation, and turned to a couple of members of said group. By this stage, they were successful, in relationships, and seemed to be queen bee of a a social standing that is hard to describe, just that they had many, many female friends whom, I suspect, longed to be just like them; they were calm, fun, social, extremely good with people and whatever they did and it seemed like they had power. Some kind of social power, which extended into their lives in every aspect. They could be warm women, but ultimately, extremely judgemental, and if someone fell short of they type of person they felt reflected them, I heard the scathing remark of 'She's not my kind of woman'....

And that's all it would take for someone to be excluded. Someone who used to be friends with so many around the table to which she is not now invited. Just a dissaproving nod or comment like that.

How on earth can it considered to be bullying? Yet, it happens in our society everyday, at every level where there are people anxious in 'getting on' and moving upwards. It has always been rife amongst women.

Acacia

Don't know if it's much to do with sisterhood, just with some women being b1tches. Witnessed it a lot throughout my life, mostly at school, but its continued right up to now.

Most recently, I've seen it with one of my own former friends... she liked to have a big group of other women around her all the time. Some of these girls didn't like each other, but had to hang around together because she was the mutual friend. She liked to pick one girl to be friendly with for awhile (when you were 'in', she would post loads on your fb page, and you'd share in-jokes in front of other people to show how close she was to you) and one girl or maybe two who were out of favour (usually for not doing what she wanted, when she wanted) who were left out of conversations, nights out, on the receiving end of passive-aggressive comments,etc. It was all pretty juvenile stuff, but when it was my turn to be the unfavoured one it felt horrible, and looking back on it, it was a sort of bullying,

Funny enough, it was her who decided to cut me out of her life. I was pretty upset at the time, but reflecting on it, I'm probably better without that kinda mindgame crap.

gcgirl

Tzeital wrote: »

Is that passive-aggressive subtle force of exclusion bullying?

I honestly think that is hard to answer.

But, I certainly know how it feels to be on the receiving end of that same treatment, OP.

The first time when it hit me was when I was excluded from a new years' eve party held in one of our extended group of friends' houses on that night and was left at a loose end with every one of my other friends invited to that party.
That continued throughout college, when a small group of them went on the J1 visa thing together to America, and I was not invited to join their group.

By then I had enough and emigrated. A few years later I came back to Ireland, in a crisis situation, and turned to a couple of members of said group. By this stage, they were successful, in relationships, and seemed to be queen bee of a a social standing that is hard to describe, just that they had many, many female friends whom, I suspect, longed to be just like them; they were calm, fun, social, extremely good with people and whatever they did and it seemed like they had power. Some kind of social power, which extended into their lives in every aspect. They could be warm women, but ultimately, extremely judgemental, and if someone fell short of they type of person they felt reflected them, I heard the scathing remark of 'She's not my kind of woman'....

And that's all it would take for someone to be excluded. Someone who used to be friends with so many around the table to which she is not now invited. Just a dissaproving nod or comment like that.

How on earth can it considered to be bullying? Yet, it happens in our society everyday, at every level where there are people anxious in 'getting on' and moving upwards. It has always been rife amongst women.

They sound like the plastics off Mean Girls

coffee_cake

saa wrote: »

As if its a womans duty to remind other women of how they a piece of clothing does nothing for them,

In all fairness, the way some girls and women go out, I do wonder would nobody take them aside and have a quiet word

I... don't think I have any idea what the OP is on about. (edit: I'm not saying it doesn't happen, I'm saying I have zero experience of it)
The stories about the carry-on I read in here and in PI sometimes just really make me wonder

Chinafoot

bluewolf wrote: »

In all fairness, the way some girls and women go out, I do wonder would nobody take them aside and have a quiet word

It all comes down to intention though. There's a huge difference between a friend having a quiet word to say that your top is too tight, for example, and someone who comments on your clothes to simply put you down.

I'm quite surprised at the replies that don't see this type of exclusion as a form of bullying. It's not about someone just not wanting to hang out with you - that's a ridiculously simplistic view tbh. As another poster pointed out, when it comes to a group like the OPs example, it is wrong for one person to dictate who can and can't be there. To exclude one person in this way is a very pointed attempt to make that person feel like crap.

I had it in a work situation a few years ago. I disagreed with a co-worker's opinion on something, no harsh words spoken or anything, just a general difference of opinion and from that point on I was excluded where I would previously have been included. If I said hello to her I was ignored. Lunch arrangements were made in front of me and I wasn't invited but literally everyone else was. On one delightful occasion I was standing talking to another colleague and this woman came over, completely interrupted our conversation, ignored me and said "Oh Anne, we're all heading over to the pub for lunch. You're coming yes?" She then looked me up and down, very pointedly and walked away. If I was saying anything in casual conversation to other people while she was there I was smirked at or a snide comment would be made to someone else within my earshot. She also spend a lot of time badmouthing me to other co-workers and telling them that I was refusing to speak to her and she had done nothing wrong. Unfortunately a few people still have a negative opinion of me because of this. Now this is textbook "bullying in the workplace" so I don't see how similar carry-on in a social environment is seen as the person being excluded overreacting.

I totally get that some people do cry "bully!" very easily, but that doesn't mean it doesn't go on. I went to an all-girls school and some of the stuff that went on was horrendous. In my honest opinion, girls bullying girls is far worse than what I've seen amongst blokes. It can be so insidious and it can can go on for an incredibly long time. I'm 28 years old and from the age of 13 I was pretty much harrassed on a daily basis in school by a group of girls 2 years ahead of me. To this day, when I see those girls I get filthy looks, snide comments, the pointing and laughing crap. They've even done the whole walk past and accidentally-on-purpose shove into me in the pub. It's pathetic behaviour and while it certainly doesn't have the same effect on me now at 28 as it did at 13, they're still intending to upset me and make me feel like crap. Their behaviour is that of a bully, plain and simple.

Storminateacup

Yes, while I agree with you that is bullying, the act of exclusion? Not so much.

I can honestly say, I am a pretty direct person. If I dislike someone, Im not going to act as if we're friends. If Im organising a night out or cinema or something, Ill ask people who I like being around. If there's someone else that wants to invite someone, that's fair enough as long as it's a public place, invite who you like. But I personally wouldn't ask someone I barely knew or had little time for because life is too short to surround yourself with people you barely tolerate. Similarly should they organise something and not ask me, I'm not going to be bothered by it because it's doubtful I'd have went.

Also, to the girls who get into a relationship and forget they had a life beforehand. You're organising a party a night ou or a day shopping, you ask them to come and each time you recieve a different excuse. Eventually, you'll stop asking them because really, why bother? Why bother when they don't make an effort to come out and you know they're going to decline and besides, eventually you're bound to not want them there anyway.
Those girls are usually the first to get offended..
"Thanks for the invite"
- why would we invite you? ..you never come, ever.
"it would still be nice to be asked".

:rolleyes:

Chinafoot

Storminateacup wrote: »

Yes, while I agree with you that is bullying, the act of exclusion? Not so much.

I can honestly say, I am a pretty direct person. If I dislike someone, Im not going to act as if we're friends. If Im organising a night out or cinema or something, Ill ask people who I like being around. If there's someone else that wants to invite someone, that's fair enough as long as it's a public place, invite who you like. But I personally wouldn't ask someone I barely knew or had little time for because life is too short to surround yourself with people you barely tolerate. Similarly should they organise something and not ask me, I'm not going to be bothered by it because it's doubtful I'd have went.

Again, you're missing the point in that it's all about the intention behind the exclusion. In your example there is no malice behind your actions because presumably you don't have people in your close group of friends that you don't like. Not inviting someone you barely know is not the same as excluding someone to make them feel shít. In the OP's example there appears to be a closer group of people where one girl is trying to exclude her from her other friends. In my workplace example the intention of the exclusion was to make me feel like crap. Exclusion can be a very powerful form of bullying.

Storminateacup wrote: »

Also, to the girls who get into a relationship and forget they had a life beforehand. You're organising a party a night ou or a day shopping, you ask them to come and each time you recieve a different excuse. Eventually, you'll stop asking them because really, why bother? Why bother when they don't make an effort to come out and you know they're going to decline and besides, eventually you're bound to not want them there anyway.
Those girls are usually the first to get offended..
"Thanks for the invite"
- why would we invite you? ..you never come, ever.
"it would still be nice to be asked".

:rolleyes:

No idea what any of that has to do with the topic at hand tbh as that situation is not in any way comparable to what the OP is talking about.

lir6777

Chinafoot wrote: »

Again, you're missing the point in that it's all about the intention behind the exclusion. In your example there is no malice behind your actions because presumably you don't have people in your close group of friends that you don't like. Not inviting someone you barely know is not the same as excluding someone to make them feel shít. In the OP's example there appears to be a closer group of people where one girl is trying to exclude her from her other friends. In my workplace example the intention of the exclusion was to make me feel like crap. Exclusion can be a very powerful form of bullying.



No idea what any of that has to do with the topic at hand tbh as that situation is not in any way comparable to what the OP is talking about.

Yeah you're right, in the case where people aren't invited because they're not really known to the person, that is not bullying in my opinion. In my case it's one person in a group of people who all went to school together, and she is being sickly sweet to my face, then planning meals and nights out and 'forgetting' to text me. This is bullying in my own opinion, as the intention is to make another person feel left out or hurt- just because it's not physical or very obvious to others, does not make it less nasty.

IvyTheTerrible

OP, what I don't understand about your situation is that you say you are being excluded from group events by this one person. Why don't you ask one of your other friends to let you know about events? It seems clear this girl doesn't like you (I'm not sure if I'd class it as bullying) but if these other girls are your friend, why is it not them asking you to events rather than just her?

lir6777

IvyTheTerrible wrote: »

OP, what I don't understand about your situation is that you say you are being excluded from group events by this one person. Why don't you ask one of your other friends to let you know about events? It seems clear this girl doesn't like you (I'm not sure if I'd class it as bullying) but if these other girls are your friend, why is it not them asking you to events rather than just her?

I know what you're saying- but as I stated in a couple of previous posts, the problem only arises when it's something she organises (most of us set things up, taking it in turns, and taking full responsibility for letting all people know when we are arranging something). So the problem is that everyone assumes that she does the same as everyone and lets everyone know. And as I said, others are fairly reluctant to get involved- probably because they, like so many people here, don't believe there's any big deal in this.

IvyTheTerrible

lir6777 wrote: »

I know what you're saying- but as I stated in a couple of previous posts, the problem only arises when it's something she organises (most of us set things up, taking it in turns, and taking full responsibility for letting all people know when we are arranging something). So the problem is that everyone assumes that she does the same as everyone and lets everyone know. And as I said, others are fairly reluctant to get involved- probably because they, like so many people here, don't believe there's any big deal in this.

Ah I missed that. Well. She either sounds not very nice, or that she is not very keen on you. So you are probably better off not going to events which she has organised (cos I suppose if she is organising then she is probably the centre of attention...). Could you start organising more events/nights out yourself?