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What do you tell your kids?

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    #92
    Turtwig
    Registered Users Posts: 26,578 ✭✭✭✭Turtwig


    mcmoustache wrote: »
    That reads like a piece of poetry. Quite beautiful, actually.

    Just thought I'd mention it. Carry on.

    Uh oh. Dades hates poetry. :p


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    #93
    speaking
    Closed Accounts Posts: 148 ✭✭speaking


    mcmoustache wrote: »
    It's easy for an adult to be a bit more sensitive to the delusions of older people and keep their mouth shut when they hear nonsense. Kids, on the other hand, not so much..

    Thats where the parenting comes in I suppose.
    You can't really blame them either. You can't exactly tell them, "Kids, people are wrong all the time but it's rude to correct them, even when they are retardedly wrong."

    No, but you can say something like this "its rude to butt into other peoples when they are are chatting in the supermarket"

    Then again, maybe you could say, "I know Grandad believes in rubbish but don't tell him because he might be upset."

    Instilling a respect for a grandparent from an early age would probably help a child realize that rubbishing the grandparents deeply held convictions in front of them is probably not the most tactful thing to do. If a child is wise enough to understand that religious superstition is a load of rubbish, he/she is probably wise enough to realise that disrespecting there grand parents is out of line too.
    I'm not sure really but I think it would be hard to teach a kid about which bull**** should be tolerated and which shouldn't.

    Kids should tolerate pretty much everything from their grand-parents, but then again I may be a traditionalist. Call me an old school atheist if you like.


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    #94
    Mark Hamill
    Registered Users Posts: 7,771 ✭✭✭Mark Hamill


    speaking wrote: »
    Also I have noticed from fellow atheists with children on this thread that they take great pride in where there three or four year old undermines old people religious beliefs or butts in to other people conversations in supermarkets.

    Its great that they are free thinking reasoned kids I am all for that, but there's also the simple issue of children having a little manners.

    If someone has a belief that a four year old can undermine then the manners of that four year old should be the last thing they think of changing.


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    #95
    speaking
    Closed Accounts Posts: 148 ✭✭speaking


    Bannasidhe wrote: »
    Neither my son or my grandchildren would ever interrupt someone conversation - I am very strict on manners - but if some one (of any religion) makes some 'Holy God/Little baby Jesus' comment to them, and they reply that they do not believe in 'Holy God/ Little baby Jesus' then yes. I am proud of them for standing up for what they believe in and declaring that without fear- no matter how old they are!

    Its not a dig at you if you did not mention this in any post. SO I am not talking about you.
    Age does not give one a free pass to pass one's religious mumbo jumbo onto children.

    Very true.


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    #96
    speaking
    Closed Accounts Posts: 148 ✭✭speaking


    Mark Hamill wrote: »
    If someone has a belief that a four year old can undermine then the manners of that four year old should be the last thing they think of changing.


    Yes a four year old can undermine, it may not be their intention but it can be what happens.

    And I am really taking about the parents proud reaction to a child rubbishing their grandparents deeply held religious beliefs, not really the actions of the child.

    A child is a product of their upbringing alright.


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    #97
    Bannasidhe
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 19,219 Mod ✭✭✭✭Bannasidhe


    speaking wrote: »
    Its not a dig at you if you did not mention this in any post. SO I am not talking about you.

    .

    speaking - did someone eat your cake? You seem determined to have a go at people.

    My son aged 9 at the time opened the door to find a priest standing there asking for the dues. My son had never encountered this phenomenon having grown up in England. He misheard the priest and thought he asked for the 'Jews' - son had many Jewish friends whose families had been wiped out in the Holocaust so the phrase 'I've come for the Jews' had meaning to him, 'come for the dues' was meaningless - he politely asked the priest to wait and came to tell me about the priest looking for the Jews. I laughed and said 'no love, he wants the dues - money. Just tell him we are not Catholic.'
    Son trotted back to the door and said 'Sorry Father, we arn't Catholic.' Priest replied 'Well God bless you anyway'.

    I was very proud of my 9 year old son when I heard him say ' Excuse me Father, but what exactly do you mean by 'anyway'?'

    I still am that he had the courage to question the implied insult and he did so very politely.


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    #98
    mcmoustache
    Registered Users Posts: 7,236 ✭✭✭mcmoustache


    speaking wrote: »

    Instilling a respect for a grandparent from an early age would probably help a child realize that rubbishing the grandparents deeply held convictions in front of them is probably not the most tactful thing to do. If a child is wise enough to understand that religious superstition is a load of rubbish, he/she is probably wise enough to realise that disrespecting there grand parents is out of line too.

    I'm not too sure about this. Knowing that an idea is rubbish is quite easy. Understanding the social norms regarding what's allowed to be corrected and what isn't is a bit trickier. Then again, I don't think it's too hard to teach a kid to keep schtum when Grandpa goes on about god or that nig-nog on the football team.
    speaking wrote: »

    Kids should tolerate pretty much everything from their grand-parents, but then again I may be a traditionalist. Call me an old school atheist if you like.

    I'm not sure if I agree or disagree. Honestly, it's a bit of a pickle. I'd probably lean towards making the kid know that Grandads opinions on things are wrong but we don't say anything because he doesn't know any better. It depends on the grandad too. Not all of them are intellectually deficient.


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    #99
    Mark Hamill
    Registered Users Posts: 7,771 ✭✭✭Mark Hamill


    speaking wrote: »
    Yes a four year old can undermine, it may not be their intention but it can be what happens.

    I don't think you understood what I meant.
    speaking wrote: »
    And I am really taking about the parents proud reaction to a child rubbishing their grandparents deeply held religious beliefs, not really the actions of the child.

    No, you are trying to distract from the fact that someone was undermined by a child by saying the child shouldn't be encouraged to do that. If someone has a belief that a four year old can undermine then they really should reconsider the belief, regardless of how well mannered the child was in doing so.
    speaking wrote: »
    A child is a product of their upbringing alright.

    Hence people are so proud that their four year old can point out when an adult is wrong.


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    #100
    mcmoustache
    Registered Users Posts: 7,236 ✭✭✭mcmoustache


    speaking wrote: »
    And I am really taking about the parents proud reaction to a child rubbishing their grandparents deeply held religious beliefs, not really the actions of the child.

    I think this comes under, "Funny things kids say". Did you laugh in when you saw the guy's wig grabbed by the kid in "Look who's talking"? While the baldy was upset, it's always hilarious when an innocent kid smashes through the bullshít that an adult wouldn't.


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    #101
    speaking
    Closed Accounts Posts: 148 ✭✭speaking


    Bannasidhe wrote: »
    speaking - did someone eat your cake? You seem determined to have a go at people.

    Dades is that not an example of attacking the poster?

    It happens to be an image of a baby getting its head sliced open. Its sick.

    What other images of children being ued for parody purposes in cakes would you draw the line at??
    My son aged 9 at the time opened the door to find a priest standing there asking for the dues. My son had never encountered this phenomenon having grown up in England. He misheard the priest and thought he asked for the 'Jews' - son had many Jewish friends whose families had been wiped out in the Holocaust so the phrase 'I've come for the Jews' had meaning to him, 'come for the dues' was meaningless - he politely asked the priest to wait and came to tell me about the priest looking for the Jews. I laughed and said 'no love, he wants the dues - money. Just tell him we are not Catholic.'
    Son trotted back to the door and said 'Sorry Father, we arn't Catholic.' Priest replied 'Well God bless you anyway'.


    I still am that he had the courage to question the implied insult and he did so very politely.

    Interesting story.


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    #102
    Bannasidhe
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 19,219 Mod ✭✭✭✭Bannasidhe


    mcmoustache wrote: »
    I'm not too sure about this. Knowing that an idea is rubbish is quite easy. Understanding the social norms regarding what's allowed to be corrected and what isn't is a bit trickier. Then again, I don't think it's too hard to teach a kid to keep schtum when Grandpa goes on about god or that nig-nog on the football team.



    I'm not sure if I agree or disagree. Honestly, it's a bit of a pickle. I'd probably lean towards making the kid know that Grandads opinions on things are wrong but we don't say anything because he doesn't know any better. It depends on the grandad too. Not all of them are intellectually deficient.

    My father is a racist and a homophobe - he's not that fond of Protestants either.

    I had no problem with my son challenging the old bigot. In fact, my issue was with my father spouting his hate filled bile to my son. I don't see why saying 'granddad, I'm not a Catholic' in response to hearing his grandfather 'lay down the law' and demand my unbaptised son make his communion is not acceptable.


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    #103
    MagicMarker
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 32,865 ✭✭✭✭MagicMarker


    speaking wrote: »
    What has a sick picture of a child (cake) having its head sliced open got to do with the Pope.

    Why can you just not find both images issues sick. They are.
    Speak for yourself, I think it looks delicious. Mmmmmmm


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    #104
    Bannasidhe
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 19,219 Mod ✭✭✭✭Bannasidhe


    speaking wrote: »



    Interesting story.

    True story.

    BTW how is asking why you are attacking people an insult?

    0r did the italics around the word story mean something other then implying I am a liar?


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    #105
    speaking
    Closed Accounts Posts: 148 ✭✭speaking


    Mark Hamill wrote: »
    I don't think you understood what I meant.

    No I understood.

    No, you are trying to distract from the fact that someone was undermined by a child by saying the child shouldn't be encouraged to do that. If someone has a belief that a four year old can undermine then they really should reconsider the belief, regardless of how well mannered the child was in doing so.

    A four year old can undermine a grand parent if they are rude to them. I mean being disrespectful rather than undermining really, but its a pedantic point.

    Obviously it not the child's intent but the disrespect occurs. Its good parenting that nips this kind of thing in the bud.

    We will just have to agree to disagree.
    Hence people are so proud that their four year old can point out when an adult is wrong.

    Its having an understanding of when to point things out and when NOT to point things out that would make me more proud of my kids as a parent. Again we will have to just agree to disagree.


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    #106
    speaking
    Closed Accounts Posts: 148 ✭✭speaking


    MagicMarker wrote: »
    Speak for yourself, I think it looks delicious. Mmmmmmm


    Do you think any act of depravity against a child depicted in a cake like this is okay??

    Where would you draw the line?

    After all it is only a cake.

    No harm there.


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    #107
    Sonics2k
    Registered Users Posts: 8,239 ✭✭✭Sonics2k


    speaking wrote: »
    Do you think any act of depravity against a child depicted in a cake like this is okay??

    Where would you draw the line?

    After all it is only a cake.

    No harm there.

    Yeah basically. I've seen them in the shape of ejaculating penises, a womans breasts (can get those in tesco actually) and a whole load more.

    It's a cake. Calm down.


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    #108
    kylith
    Registered Users Posts: 17,736 ✭✭✭✭kylith


    speaking wrote: »
    Oh now I see, watching a baby in the shape of a cake have its head sliced open, now thats so funny I really can see there the nuanced humor all right.

    Maybe a few of my fellow atheists are playing a little to much 18 rated playstation games me thinks,

    Its called dehumanization not to find that image sick.

    But see I am probably too stupid to understand the nuance in that.

    Where do we stop folks?
    You do know that people make cakes like this to celebrate the birth of babies, right, and that's probably what that cake was for? God-fearing people, even. It's just a slightly creepy cake, probably bought by American christians more than by atheists. Cakewrecks.com has a whole section of them.


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    #109
    branie
    Registered Users Posts: 1,429 ✭✭✭branie


    So, do you give ther facts of life, instead of saying they were found under a head of cabbage or, in my family, you came from god's pocket?


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    #110
    speaking
    Closed Accounts Posts: 148 ✭✭speaking


    Sonics2k wrote: »
    Yeah basically. I've seen them in the shape of ejaculating penises, a womans breasts (can get those in tesco actually) and a whole load more.

    It's a cake. Calm down.

    I am not talking about any image I am talking about any image of a child/baby being tortured abuse defiled etc.

    Do you think any image of a child being tortured abused defiled in a cake like this is okay?

    Other images as you describe are not part of my question. I note however that despite my question being directly related to children, you give examples not relating to children.

    Its a cake depicting a adult cutting into a babys skull. Now, that adult must though it was funny enough to make the cake or buy it somewhere. That same adult along with others thought it would be funny to stand around and laugh about cutting into the skull.

    And another adult thought it was funny to video it and put it on the net.

    Post modern subtle humor its not.


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    #111
    speaking
    Closed Accounts Posts: 148 ✭✭speaking


    kylith wrote: »
    You do know that people make cakes like this to celebrate the birth of babies, right, and that's probably what that cake was for? God-fearing people, even. It's just a slightly creepy cake, probably bought by American christians more than by atheists. Cakewrecks.com has a whole section of them.

    its the act of cutting a baby's head like that that freaks me out. Not the cake. its the act of posting it on a forum to make a stupid point that freaks me out. its the complete lack of understanding that this image is dehumanizing.


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    #112
    Dades
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 25,558 Mod ✭✭✭✭Dades


    speaking wrote: »
    Dades is that not an example of attacking the poster?
    Well it was really more of a question? Its hardly in the same league as the post I quoted before.


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    #113
    Sonics2k
    Registered Users Posts: 8,239 ✭✭✭Sonics2k


    speaking wrote: »
    I am not talking about any image I am talking about any image of a child/baby being tortured abuse defiled etc.

    Do you think any image of a child being tortured abused defiled in a cake like this is okay?

    Other images as you describe are not part of my question. I note however that despite my question being directly related to children, you give examples not relating to children.

    Its a cake depicting a adult cutting into a babys skull. Now, that adult must though it was funny enough to make the cake or buy it somewhere. That same adult along with others thought it would be funny to stand around and laugh about cutting into the skull.

    And another adult thought it was funny to video it and put it on the net.

    Post modern subtle humor its not.

    Actually, as it's a cake I have no problem with it.

    What I do have is those who abuse images of sick or malformed children on the likes of Facebook to get lots of extra attention.

    This whole "Like if you think she's gorgeous, comment for one prayer to God" bullshít things are -completely- offensive to me. They use -real- children to get extra friends, likes and increase their e-peens. That is sick and offensive.

    A picture of a cake in the shape of a child is nothing more than a twisted joke.


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    #114
    Mark Hamill
    Registered Users Posts: 7,771 ✭✭✭Mark Hamill


    speaking wrote: »
    No I understood.

    If you understood then you would not be blathering on about respect.
    speaking wrote: »
    A four year old can undermine a grand parent if they are rude to them. I mean being disrespectful rather than undermining really, but its a pedantic point.

    Obviously it not the child's intent but the disrespect occurs. Its good parenting that nips this kind of thing in the bud.

    We will just have to agree to disagree.

    Its hard to agree to disagree when we aren't talking about the same things. It is not disrespectful to undermine someone, to point out why they are wrong in a simple, compelling way. It is disrespectful to treat them like glass brained idiots that can't take the honest questioning of a young child.
    But thats besides my point. Disrespectful or otherwise, if you believe in something that a four year old can undermine, then you really need to re-evaluate that thing, before you complain about the four year old.
    speaking wrote: »
    Its having an understanding of when to point things out and when NOT to point things out that would make me more proud of my kids as a parent. Again we will have to just agree to disagree.

    Kids should never be afraid to point things out. And adults should never be afraid to be criticised by a child, not if they have any conviction in what they say. If someone is afraid of their grand kids contradicting them then maybe they should shut up around their grand kids.


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    #115
    Mark Hamill
    Registered Users Posts: 7,771 ✭✭✭Mark Hamill


    speaking wrote: »
    Do you think any act of depravity against a child depicted in a cake like this is okay??

    The cake doesn't depict an act of depravity against a child, it is a cake in the shape of a sleeping child.


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    #116
    speaking
    Closed Accounts Posts: 148 ✭✭speaking


    Sonics2k wrote: »
    Actually, as it's a cake I have no problem with it.

    What I do have is those who abuse images of sick or malformed children on the likes of Facebook to get lots of extra attention.

    This whole "Like if you think she's gorgeous, comment for one prayer to God" bullshít things are -completely- offensive to me. They use -real- children to get extra friends, likes and increase their e-peens. That is sick and offensive.

    Absolutely your right its very offensive. But nothing what so ever to do with what I am talking about.
    A picture of a cake in the shape of a child is nothing more than a twisted joke.

    Again you are missing my point. it is the act of cutting through the skull in this way. It is a very specific and vivid image. It is dehumanizing and sick.

    maybe I just don't get it. Call me thick or over sensitive. its a creepy and sick clip.


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    #117
    speaking
    Closed Accounts Posts: 148 ✭✭speaking


    Mark Hamill wrote: »
    The cake doesn't depict an act of depravity against a child, it is a cake in the shape of a sleeping child.

    True but the act of slicing through the skull like that does depict and act of depravity?? It looks sick, Creepy, nasty juvenile. Its horrible. Now you can say its just a person cutting into a cake, taking the piss out of the cake more than actually anything else, but posting it on the net, the adults looking on, the vividness of the image, it actually becomes something more, or actually something that it actually is.

    Mark again we will have to agree to disagree.


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    #118
    Mark Hamill
    Registered Users Posts: 7,771 ✭✭✭Mark Hamill


    speaking wrote: »
    I am not talking about any image I am talking about any image of a child/baby being tortured abuse defiled etc.

    Do you think any image of a child being tortured abused defiled in a cake like this is okay?

    One year my nephew got a birthday cake with an edible photo of himself printed on it. He took great joy in slicing through it (and sticking his fingers in it). Was he torturing himself?
    The cake, and the gif are not images of a baby being defiled or tortured. They are cake. Stop pretending to be offended.


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    #119
    speaking
    Closed Accounts Posts: 148 ✭✭speaking


    Mark Hamill wrote: »
    One year my nephew got a birthday cake with an edible photo of himself printed on it. He took great joy in slicing through it (and sticking his fingers in it). Was he torturing himself?
    The cake, and the gif are not images of a baby being defiled or tortured. They are cake. Stop pretending to be offended.

    They are a gif of an adult cutting off a babys head in a cake as an act of humor, Presumably. That is what it is. Where is the humor?

    Why are trying to equate two completely different things as the same.

    The context of both is completely different so there is no analogy. They are completely different scenarios.

    The image as it is depicted in that manner is disgusting creepy nasty.

    For those of you who think this image is funny that's fine. I appreciate your view but for me its deeply creepy it that context. its an appalling image.


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    #120
    Mark Hamill
    Registered Users Posts: 7,771 ✭✭✭Mark Hamill


    speaking wrote: »
    Why are trying to equate two completely different things as the same.

    The context of both is completely different so there is no analogy. They are completly different scenarios.

    They are both cakes were slicing through the images of children are necessary to eat the cake, so I fail to see the difference. You are choosing to be offended.
    speaking wrote: »
    The image as it is depicted in that manner is disgusting creepy nasty.

    Its creepy, but only the first time, when you might not immediately realise its a cake. After that? I don't see why it would continue to be creepy.


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    #121
    speaking
    Closed Accounts Posts: 148 ✭✭speaking


    Mark Hamill wrote: »
    They are both cakes were slicing through the images of children are necessary to eat the cake, so I fail to see the difference. You are choosing to be offended.

    In your case a child sliced through a picture of himself anddid not intentionally slice directly through his head in a direct attempt to be a sick and deprived.


    2. the were adults slicing through a baby's head.

    3. I take it the nine year old in your case was not juvenile enough to take a digital image and put on the net in an act of "humor".

    Its creepy, but only the first time, when you might not immediately realise its a cake. After that? I don't see why it would continue to be creepy.

    Its the act of adults thinking it funny to slice through a cake in that manner thats the sick part cant you see that.

    If any adult I knew sliced though a cake in an image of a child like the one in question I would seriously question there cop on morally would you not?? I would at least look at them and think funny man (read sick fuvk)

    Thats me finished with this for a while.

    If I am the only person who finds the image disturbing. So be it.

    Out of here for good.


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