Life on the dole

scamalert

CuriousG
were you kicked out of home at age of 17 or decided to work instead of studying?

I have been unemployed for a few months now, and the first time I will be going out for a drink (literally A drink, as in one) in those months will be next week - at my boyfriend's expense, not my own.

Because of this point i think any person should be completely taken off the dole if this is on your priority list no1.Its such culture where people cant think of anything better to spend or enjoy their time then drinking,add few smokes,sex,junk food and why bother for a job (i exaggerated the last sentence a bit but thats true for most. )

Turtwig

scamalert wrote: »

CuriousG
were you kicked out of home at age of 17 or decided to work instead of studying?

I have been unemployed for a few months now, and the first time I will be going out for a drink (literally A drink, as in one) in those months will be next week - at my boyfriend's expense, not my own.

Because of this point i think any person should be completely taken off the dole if this is on your priority list no1.Its such culture where people cant think of anything better to spend or enjoy their time then drinking,add few smokes,sex,junk food and why bother for a job (i exaggerated the last sentence a bit but thats true for most. )

Wow way to totally not get her point. Those weren't a list of priorities. They were just a list of counter points.

CuriousG

scamalert wrote: »

CuriousG
were you kicked out of home at age of 17 or decided to work instead of studying?

I have been unemployed for a few months now, and the first time I will be going out for a drink (literally A drink, as in one) in those months will be next week - at my boyfriend's expense, not my own.

Because of this point i think any person should be completely taken off the dole if this is on your priority list no1.Its such culture where people cant think of anything better to spend or enjoy their time then drinking,add few smokes,sex,junk food and why bother for a job (i exaggerated the last sentence a bit but thats true for most. )

I was 'politely asked' to leave home when I was lucky enough to be offered a job and accommodation at 17 (when I was already working at the same time, for absolutely **** money, over half of which I gave back to my parents), three weeks after doing my exams. My family were REALLY struggling, and the only people that got presents for XMAS in my house were my two little brothers, who are both under 8, definitely no luxuries there. I think I maybe got a tenner for my 18th birthday off my parents, I didn't complain at that one bit, because for god sakes, we weren't bloody rich like you're trying to make out. I practically brought up my siblings because my parents were working their asses off at not very good paying jobs to keep us afloat, I hadn't much choice but to leave. That said, both of my parents have been working since they were 16 paying taxes, and are now in their forties after not claiming a penny back. I was hoping to go onto college that Sept, but it just did not happen, thanks to many factors, number one being money. A three bedroomed house for a growing family of six is not very practical, and I did not sign on the dole till two years after that, what is your point? I would have went to the college in the morning if circumstances allowed.

I literally only mentioned the drink thing first, because the was one of the most highlighted points in this. Obviously, you completely missed what I was trying to say there that it is NOT true the it is a priority for people on the dole, rather, it is a very rare treat, unlike what most of you tar it as. Well done.

I don't smoke, I have not gotten a take away in I don't know how long (I would be that way regardless of being on the dole, just personal preference) I think I have already highlighted my efforts for getting a job, not that I have to do so for you or anyone except SW, but I threw it in to prove a point. I literally have owned the same three pairs of jeans for the last two years, and I got new ones last week....... Cast offs from my relative, and that was like bloody christmas to me, because I didn't have to walk around looking like a tatty tramp in ripped jeans anymore. I limit food to 20e a week, which is grand thanks to Aldi, but taking into consideration esb (I don't have sky, or any tv channels, just a portable tv given to me when I moved out that was in the attic.) and rent, along with things such as printing cvs, household things, etc. there is nothing left for the luxuries you are convinced unemployed people have.

It's people like you that are the reason for some people in this world who cannot take being on the dole for fear of being ashamed, and end their lives, or pretend they are going to work everyday rather than be seen as signing on (which I know a few who have done that) etc. You have obviously never hit a hard patch in your life, and I hope someday you do. You'll eat your words by the bucketload.

I don't think a person as ignorant as you has the right to judge anyone, on the dole or otherwise. I could go on and tell you a lot more things people like me and others have to deal with being on the dole, but I don't think it would even get through to your thick skull regardless...

scamalert

CuriousG I dont judge you or anyone on the dole,I have family members on the dole and can see the effects of degrading from day to day with little to no hope in finding a job :cool: But also i know people that use every advantage of dole/child benefit/rent allowance /heating ,while im busting my head for 10h job with minimum wage and 0 future of advancing in career.Guess that's where the anger stems for most people towards the ones on the dole.Even more in this climate its the employers that use this advantage to rather drop 3 jobs on one person instead of hiring someone as it is in place where i work and i believe many more,and yet government decides most stupidest decisions and plans to get people working for free.So if theres anyone to blame are those who put whole economy into recession.

CuriousG

scamalert wrote: »

CuriousG I dont judge you or anyone on the dole,I have family members on the dole and can see the effects of degrading from day to day with little to no hope in finding a job :cool: But also i know people that use every advantage of dole/child benefit/rent allowance /heating ,while im busting my head for 10h job with minimum wage and 0 future of advancing in career.Guess that's where the anger stems for most people towards the ones on the dole.Even more in this climate its the employers that use this advantage to rather drop 3 jobs on one person instead of hiring someone as it is in place where i work and i believe many more,and yet government decides most stupidest decisions and plans to get people working for free.So if theres anyone to blame are those who put whole economy into recession.

Sounded very judgemental to me, and if your family has it as hard as most other people do, you should know better than to rant at people for having 'luxuries' - it could not be further from the truth.

Of course there are people that take advantage, those people aren't exclusive to the dole, they are everywhere in life.

j1d2c3

Obviously there are those that struggle with what they're paid and those that are paid far too much. Of the real(not internet) cases I've seen the vast majority can afford a fairly lavish lifestyle without any real motivation to seek work.

tonymantana

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tiSDF1bT59A

dave24dub

j1d2c3 wrote: »

Obviously there are those that struggle with what they're paid and those that are paid far too much. Of the real(not internet) cases I've seen the vast majority can afford a fairly lavish lifestyle without any real motivation to seek work.

nonsense!! i was working for years as an electrican and im unemployed now like most others in my trade and the the dole rate is barely enough to keep the car going never mind living lavishly!!

srsly78

"Sure the dole is barely enough to pay my mortgage..."

arctictree

Its the high minimum wage that has really screwed up this country. I know lots of farmers that would hire many many workers if they were a bit cheaper. Instead people languish on the dole and employers cant create jobs.

srsly78

Noone will work for lower wages since the dole is so high.

arctictree

srsly78 wrote: »

Noone will work for lower wages since the dole is so high.

Surely, those lads on dole of €100 a week would work for €250 a week if allowed?

CuriousG

arctictree wrote: »

Surely, those lads on dole of €100 a week would work for €250 a week if allowed?

250 a week seems like millions to me, I remember when I done my FAS course I was getting 190 a week. I felt like the richest person going then, and if it wasn't for saving up that allowance, I wouldn't be living in an apartment now, because I had to pay for that deposit out of my own pocket (and obviously my boyfriend paid too) on 190.

In general, people on 188 may be nice and comfy, but not all of us have that, so bear it in mind before tarring us with the same brush.

J Mysterio

Esri criticise imf after new report shows you are not better off on the dole.

http://m.rte.ie/news/2012/0927/esri-says-welfare-data-misinterpreted.html

j1d2c3

dave24dub wrote: »

nonsense!! i was working for years as an electrican and im unemployed now like most others in my trade and the the dole rate is barely enough to keep the car going never mind living lavishly!!

Then obviously as I mentioned too, you're one of the those who are struggling. I don't know you, I was speaking about people I do. For example, one friend, while on the dole was able to go to south africa for two and a half weeks with Dole savings. I consider that kind of lifestyle lavish.

super_furry

j1d2c3 wrote: »

Then obviously as I mentioned too, you're one of the those who are struggling. I don't know you, I was speaking about people I do. For example, one friend, while on the dole was able to go to south africa for two and a half weeks with Dole savings. I consider that kind of lifestyle lavish.

Your friend obviously isn't using the dole for his day to day living and expenses and has a secondary income.

j1d2c3

super_furry wrote: »

Your friend obviously isn't using the dole for his day to day living and expenses and has a secondary income.

No secondary income, had rent allowance, After day to day could afford to save enough for the holiday. Similar I presume to the guy earlier in thread who saved his to go to Australia. I'm not saying people in general aren't struggling to get by on the dole, I'm just referring to people I know. I'm not purporting to be an expert on the matter just relaying information I'm aware of on the matter.

bryaner

arctictree wrote: »

Its the high minimum wage that has really screwed up this country. I know lots of farmers that would hire many many workers if they were a bit cheaper. Instead people languish on the dole and employers cant create jobs.

Surley you jest!! Farmers would have workers living in sheds at -16c for €1.00 a day if they had a chance, thank fcuk for min wage..:rolleyes:

arctictree

arctictree wrote: »

Its the high minimum wage that has really screwed up this country.

No, it's not. I wish you'd just think before you type. It can't be that difficult.

arctictree wrote:

I know lots of farmers that would hire many many workers if they were a bit cheaper. Instead people languish on the dole and employers cant create jobs.

STOP THE PRESSES!

This just in: business owners would have more workers if they could get away with paying them practically nothing.

You don't say! The reason for this is the workers wouldn't have the law to protect them from exploitation. It's only in the last century or two that 'employment' has stopped being synonymous with 'slavery'.

Your attitude sounds like you feel as though employers are entitled to have workers doing their bidding. That's not how it works. It's through the work of the ordinary employees that the boss earns far more. I work hard and - while I don't see a cut of this lavish salary - I expect a fair compensation for my time, effort and skill; enough for me to be rewarded for what I put in by enjoying my free time.

The only reason anyone ever argues against a minimum wage is so employers can reap more profits and shunt the workload onto their bigger, lower-paid workforce. Sounds far more selfish and parasitic than a disillusioned, uneducated person claiming the dole. You must see the irony in making this argument and then accusing people on the dole (not very much money) of 'languishing' (which I don't think means what you think it means).

CruelCoin

Deleted User wrote: »

Your attitude sounds like you feel as though employers are entitled to have workers doing their bidding. That's not how it works.

Well actually yes it is.

Employment at its core works on the principle of: Labour in, Money out.

It is up to the employer to dictate what work gets done, not the other way around.

Turtwig

CruelCoin wrote: »

Well actually yes it is.

Employment at its core works on the principle of: Labour in, Money out.

It is up to the employer to dictate what work gets done, not the other way around.

Good luck setting up a productive and innovative company with that philosophy.

charlemont

srsly78 wrote: »

Noone will work for lower wages since the dole is so high.

cost of living is so high..

CruelCoin

CruelCoin wrote: »

Well actually yes it is.

Employment at its core works on the principle of: Labour in, Money out.

It is up to the employer to dictate what work gets done, not the other way around.

No, an employer only 'dictates' so long as their workers go along with it. The workforce of a company - or a section thereof - can refuse to do whatever they want.

I presume now you're thinking 'and the employer can sack them all'.

Of course, and then they can watch their business collapse as nothing gets done.

cloud493

I can't imagine anything worse than being on the dole. I'm very lucky to have a job obivously, and I put away whenever possible, don't waste it all if possible, just in case, I can invest in things that might come in handy future.

Gauss

It's a shame people think the minimum wage protects the vulnerable. It doesn't the exact opposite, it causes poverty. On the surface you'd think it is good but the world isn't always that simple.


http://mises.org/daily/6097/The-Crippling-Nature-of-MinimumWage-Laws

fryup

cloud493 wrote: »

I can't imagine anything worse than being on the dole. I'm very lucky to have a job obivously.

really how about starving to death in sub-Saharan africa

Greentopia

Gauss wrote: »

It's a shame people think the minimum wage protects the vulnerable. It doesn't the exact opposite, it causes poverty. On the surface you'd think it is good but the world isn't always that simple.


http://mises.org/daily/6097/The-Crippling-Nature-of-MinimumWage-Laws

It does not cause poverty, it protects people from it. But then I don't expect you to agree if you back up your argument with a link to an anarcho-capitalist website.
I'm on another American website for crafters-Ravelry.com, where there are threads about how sh1t life is for low paid workers in that country-especially those in the service industries like retail, waitressing in restaurants... some of them are paid as little as $2 an hour minimum wage (depending in what State they live) and they have to make up the rest in tips.
Many of them have to work 2 and 3 jobs just to put food on the table and have inadequate or NO health insurance meaning they are in a very vulnerable and insecure position financially and are open to abuse and exploitation by employers.

Is that the situation you'd like to see in Ireland? I certainly wouldn't. Minimum wage laws are there to protect workers from the kind of exploitation I read about on Ravelry and to ensure people have a living wage. Perhaps you might like to try a stint yourself working for peanuts, grovelling for tips in insecure employment like those people before you spout anarcho-capitalist propaganda.

Greentopia

[QUOTE=cloud493;80995860]I can't imagine anything worse than being on the dole. I'm very lucky to have a job obivously, and I put away whenever possible, don't waste it all if possible, just in case, I can invest in things that might come in handy future.[/QUOTE]

You're either not thinking this one through or you lead a very sheltered life! I can think of plenty of things way worse than life on the dole.

I was on the dole for quite a while before my current 'portfolio' working situation-self employment and part-time working.
I have a few friends on the dole. I don't personally think it's a fulfilling life by any means and wouldn't want to be on it again but I never felt humiliated or demeaned on it. I have a right to draw the dole if I need it so I don't allow people who know nothing about my life and circumstances to dictate how I feel about my life.

I have two (single, it must be said) close friends who are on it for years-one for about 15 years! because they can't live on what they earn and they manage ok. In fact they both go off on holidays and trips away to far flung places like Mexico every few months and European capitals every few weeks.
* cue howls of indignation and horror from the gainfully employed here :pac:

It doesn't bother me what they do with their dole, it's not my business and I don't begrudge them their relatively easy lives. They have different priorities and interests in life to most people and travel is important to them so good luck to them.

cloud493

Or, I don't want to take hand outs.

areyawell

I currently touch myself a lot more than I used to when I was working!