Dutch Scientists Develop Airborne H5N1 (Flu)

TeddyTedson

Will it be ready by this time next year I wonder? If we get past 2012, I think everything will be okay:)

Guill

http://news.sky.com/home/world-news/article/16133898

A Dutch laboratory claiming to have developed a deadly strain of bird flu wants to publish its research, sparking fears that terrorists could use the information.

Scientists at the Erasmus Medical Centre in Rotterdam say they have been able to mutate the H5N1 virus so that it can be transmitted through the air.
Until now it was thought it could be transmitted between humans only via close physical contact.

If you create something this deadly and it goes into a global pandemic the mortality and cost to the world could be massive.

Senior scientific adviser to the US government

The Netherlands team, led by virologist Ron Fouchier, carried out the research to find out how easy it is to genetically mutate the virus into a highly-infectious airborne human flu.
Mr Fouchier said in a statement they discovered that transmission of the virus was possible between humans "and can be carried out more easily than we thought".
"In a laboratory, it was possible to change the H5N1 into a virus... that can easily be spread through the air. This process could also happen naturally," he said.
Mr Fouchier argues that any knowledge gained could be vital in the development of new vaccines.



But critics fear it could escape from the laboratory and spread, or that terrorists could use the research to replicate it.
Others have questioned the appropriateness of the work being carried out in a university instead of a secure military facility.
The findings of the study had been due to be published in the American Journal of Science, but the US National Science Advisory Board for Biosecurity is now deciding whether to block it.

A senior scientific advisor to the US government is quoted by The Independent as saying: "The fear is that if you create something this deadly and it goes into a global pandemic the mortality and cost to the world could be massive.
"The worst-case scenario here is worse than anything you can imagine."
About 60% (over 350 people) of those infected with the H5N1 strain of bird flu have died but its spread has been limited because it is not passed easily between humans.
A second independent team of scientific researchers at the universities of Wisconsin and Tokyo, led by Yoshihiro Kawaoka, carried out similar work and found similar results showing how easy it would be to create.

Seriously, are there not enough things out there that can wipe us off the planet without developing more???

An then to want to make the results public?? Kim Jong un would have a field day!

Logical Fallacy

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056489755

pragmatic1

I'd say theres worse things being grown in my boxer shorts.

AlmightyCushion

Guill wrote: »

http://news.sky.com/home/world-news/article/16133898




Seriously, are there not enough things out there that can wipe us off the planet without developing more???

We develop them so that we can study and learn from them so that if they or something like them infects the population we can react to them quicker and better.

smash

It's not exactly true, our body temp is too low for bird flu even though it has killed people, so scientists added a protean and introduced it to ferrets to see what would happen. It adapted itself and became air born. They're now in a position to try and come up with a vaccine in case it evolves in nature to attack humans.

Thrill

I'm sure they have it securely stored away.

*Coughs*

Chuck Stone

That makes me sick.





Literally.

Eathrin

Laboratory experiments like this have gone wrong in too many films for me to feel comfortable about this.

sebastianlieken

too many people anyway.

thin the herd a little.

no harm.

hooradiation

Guill wrote: »

http://news.sky.com/home/world-news/article/16133898




Seriously, are there not enough things out there that can wipe us off the planet without developing more???

An then to want to make the results public?? Kim Jong un would have a field day!

It's nothing that couldn't happen naturally anyway and really what we need to be, above all else, is massively ignorant of possible variants in diseases and never perform anything remotely approaching proactive work because the public get in a tizzy.

But what the hell - Who's for a nice bout of hysteria?

Killer Pigeon

So the virus gives you wings?

smash

Killer Pigeon wrote: »

So the virus gives you wings?

We already know you have it anyway.

Not very conspicuous.

youtube!

sebastianlieken wrote: »

too many people anyway.

thin the herd a little.

no harm.

Well just put yourself forward first.

sebastianlieken

Killer Pigeon wrote: »

So the virus gives you wings?

No, that's red bull

the virus give's you good hardy case of the dead.


"killerpigeon" as a user name.... suspicious...

TeddyTedson

Don't believe the hype. This "killer flu" would probably kill 1 in 1000.
Anyway, we need to control the global population a bit so this is just natures way of leveling things out.

sebastianlieken

TeddyTedson wrote: »

Don't believe the hype. This "killer flu" would probably kill 1 in 1000.

6.8 million people. yeah screw it, that's nothing! :rolleyes:

Eathrin

TeddyTedson wrote: »

Don't believe the hype. This "killer flu" would probably kill 1 in 1000.
Anyway, we need to control the global population a bit so this is just natures way of leveling things out.

How is manufacturing virus' natures way of leveling things out?

I'm almost certain you wouldn't find animals up to the likes.
Imagine a few mad elephants committing mass murder on their fellow race, doesn't happen:P

Guill

I understand that we can possibly use these strains to pre-empt natural mutations but i think these developments should be kept undr lock and key, publishing the data to me is crazy. What wouls happen if Iran or North Korea figured out how to make an Atom bomb??

Doctor Jimbob

Guill wrote: »

I understand that we can possibly use these strains to pre-empt natural mutations but i think these developments should be kept undr lock and key, publishing the data to me is crazy. What wouls happen if Iran or North Korea figured out how to make an Atom bomb??

To be honest, if they managed to make an atom bomb from data on a flu virus, I'd just be impressed.

Guill

Doctor Jimbob wrote: »

To be honest, if they managed to make an atom bomb from data on a flu virus, I'd just be impressed.

Me too... haha

sebastianlieken

Cian A wrote: »

How is manufacturing virus' natures way of leveling things out?

I have to go against the grain on this one. Humans are a product of nature, therefore anything we do is a natural process. doesn't matter what we do, it's ultimatly a natural process.

look at it this way, The modern human environment is changing much more rapidly than humans can conventionally evolve. But as they say, "nature will always find a way", and in this case, human evolution has effectivly been outsourced, into our own hands. Removing the appendix, corrective laser eye surgery, and soon genetic manipulation etc.

BUT the downside to this is, with all this maintenance of life, a balance needs to exist where "the weak" are thinned from the populus. With so many people on the planet, it's only natural that in some way or form, through whichever means, the fittest of the species survive over the weaker ones. first principles can't be changed.

Eathrin

sebastianlieken wrote: »

I have to go against the grain on this one. Humans are a product of nature, therefore anything we do is a natural process. doesn't matter what we do, it's ultimatly a natural process.

look at it this way, The modern human environment is changing much more rapidly than humans can conventionally evolve. But as they say, "nature will always find a way", and in this case, human evolution has effectivly been outsourced, into our own hands. Removing the appendix, corrective laser eye surgery, and soon genetic manipulation etc.

BUT the downside to this is, with all this maintenance of life, a balance needs to exist where "the weak" are thinned from the populus. With so many people on the planet, it's only natural that in some way or form, through whichever means, the fittest of the species survive over the weaker ones. first principles can't be changed.

Then surely by that logic everything is natural.
I wouldn't call humans destroying an animal's habitat natural, yet we are both products of nature.
Destroying our planet by pollution is natural because we are products of nature?

I see where you're coming from of course but it's a debatable point.

sebastianlieken

ach I know some people wouldn't agree. understandable of course.

I think though, that in the grander scheme of things, everything is natural yeah.

except justin bieber... he's just an anomoly.

Guill

sebastianlieken wrote: »

I have to go against the grain on this one. Humans are a product of nature, therefore anything we do is a natural process. doesn't matter what we do, it's ultimatly a natural process.

look at it this way, The modern human environment is changing much more rapidly than humans can conventionally evolve. But as they say, "nature will always find a way", and in this case, human evolution has effectivly been outsourced, into our own hands. Removing the appendix, corrective laser eye surgery, and soon genetic manipulation etc.

BUT the downside to this is, with all this maintenance of life, a balance needs to exist where "the weak" are thinned from the populus. With so many people on the planet, it's only natural that in some way or form, through whichever means, the fittest of the species survive over the weaker ones. first principles can't be changed.

But how do we know that these mutated strain will be representative of a possibel future mutated strain?

Have we preempted the mutation or created a diferent mutation?

stinkle

Guill wrote: »

But how do we know that these mutated strain will be representative of a possibel future mutated strain?

Have we preempted the mutation or created a diferent mutation?

that's a good question, it might all be a fuss about nothing. The thing is, influenza virus in particular has a high mutation rate, which is why there's a whole industry around flu vaccines and usually a big fuss every year regarding the dominant strain that year.

There isn't just one mutation every year though, and of course some mutations can end up being detrimental to the virus. But if a particular mutation (e.g. new virus strain can be transmitted via the air) ends up being beneficial to the virus, then the viruses with that mutation will survive longer than their "rivals", and will replicate and persist, becoming the "dominant strain". Due to their high mutation rate though, they'll evolve again and again in this cycle. The ability to be transmitted more easily is something to be concerned about.

Viruses can't survive on their own, they need a host to survive in. Therefore the more people/pigs/birds/whatever they can infect, the better FOR THE VIRUS. So if this H5N1 mutant can get to more hosts than the regular H5N1 (which is totall possible if this mutation were to occur naturally), then it can theoretically do more damage as opposed to one that can only be transmitted by close contact with infected individuals.

From a scientific perspecitive, A) it's very important that we know that H5N1 could evolve in this way, however unlikely that may be and knowledge is power, now that the scientific community is aware of this, efforts can be made to develop vaccines and antivirals against this particular strain. There's no point in this one lab in the Netherlands keeping this info to themselves, by publishing it it means that more people can have an input into how vaccines and treatments should best develop. Why do you think the H5N1 vaccines and drugs were so quick on the market? Scientists weren't caught be surprise by this "new" strain, there must have been a huge amount of work done on this previously obscure flu strain, which facilitated the development of treatments, which were then scaled up when it became a potential pandemic

TeddyTedson

sebastianlieken wrote: »

6.8 million people. yeah screw it, that's nothing! :rolleyes:

Would it not be 7 by your logic at this stage?

Nothing will happen, it's probably not even true. :rolleyes: