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Property tax to be passed onto tenants? No thanks.
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This notion that tenants have that all landlords are some type of fat cat property developers out to screw tenants and who are responsible for the current problems is a joke. Newsflash - landlords are regular people too.
My wife and I are a young couple. We bought a small 1 bed apartment 6 years ago. The plan was to live there for a couple of years then sell it and move on when we were ready to start a family. Didn't quite work out.
Sorry but you shouldn't have believed the hype about getting on the property ladder at all costs.
I have to say I know a fair few landlords who have many multiple houses.
After starting with one they decided post 2001/2002 to start leveraging their existing property and that interest only mortgages could make them millionaires when they eventually sold.
And for a while they were millionaires on paper, but once the tide went out they have left there sitting holding onto their genitals wailing about it is so hard to survive, how they were misled and even asking where is their bailout.
Well tough sh** is my reply.Had to move out 3 years ago and in with the inlaws because with job losses etc we could no longer afford the mortgage.
The rent we get is less than half the mortage repayment.
We have the PRTB expenses
We have the BER cert expenses
We even have the fookin "Non Principal Residency" tax because even though we don't own another property, it's still not our principal residence because we no longer live there.
We bend over backwards to keep our tenants happy whenever they have an issue.
So I'm sorry, but I'm not a big fat cat property developer who screwed over all you poor tenants in the boom years, and yes, I do think the household charge should be passed on to residents / tenants, just like a TV licence. I for one certainly won't be paying it (apart from going halves on the house we're currently in).
You will pay it.
You might be able to pass on some or all of the cost to the tenants through rent increase, but you are liable for this tax.
Oh btw there is no law that states you can demand or get rent to cover all your costs.
It as someone mentioned, like demanding wage increases to meet your outgoings....
This is the problem when communists like Labour get into power. The folks that voted for them are to blame for this tax, and they will be the ones paying for it.
Oh dear God what planet are you if you think that anyone in Labour is a communist.
Perhaps you have spent too long listening to republican shock jock radio over there in the sun in Arizona. :rolleyes:well said.
what seems to be the problem from where im standing is that the imf have outlined it as a 'property tax' and enda kenny has said its a 'household charge' and this is why there is so much confusion...?
I think this is exactly the point.
The IMF wanted an ongoing annual tax on property and Kenny has tried to sell this to people by claiming it is a tax on local services.
Hence landlords claim it should be paid by the tenants and not the owners.
I think there should be a property tax on peoples' personal home and then another higher property tax on investment/rental property, both of which are liable to be paid by the property owner.
You pay one or other on a property and not both since you can't totally rent your personal home.
Landlords can attempt to pass on these costs if the market allows it.
Then there should be separate water charges, refuse charges, etc that like electricity, gas, tv are payable by whoever is living in a property.
Of course in Ireland once again we have made a balls of this.
Make no mistake there are hefty property taxes coming and to make a dent in the debts/deficit there is a damm good chance it will be a lot bigger than 100 or 200 a year.Thank you, finally some sense! Was thinking the same thing! Doesn't matter, the market will always dictate the price of rent. People getting their panties in a bunch. My real concern is if this 100 is just the beginning, we need to keep our eyes & ears open to that and not this blank vs blank nonsense again.
You do know we need to shave another 4/5 billion off our deficit ?
Where do you expect the taxes to come from ?Completely agree. Landlords who think that they can pass these taxes onto tenants are living in a dream world.
These taxes will be raised every year - following on from the logic of some people here, that means that rents will rise?
That is a crazy notion -the fundemantals in the economy have not changed, tenants, like landlords have and will continue to have falling disposable income and rising costs of living.
This year it's 100 euro, what about when it reaches 600 per year? Do landlords think that they can continue passing these taxes on?
Ultimately this will force those accidental landlords who can to try and offload their properties, this will also effect house prices and investors coming into the property market will factor in these costs as well as buying property at a fraction of boom prices.
They will then rent them out undercutting those who are keeping the rental market artificially high, basing rents on mortgage repayments rather than market rates.
Excellent post.0 -
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Ray Palmer wrote: »Not really it is the reality. I have stated before that I current rent the place out cheaper to a long term tenant, the government are making this situation untenable. As you pointed before the tenant is not doing any favours for the LL or vice versa it is a business.
I am actually breaking the law by renting it below the market rate due to bad wording by the law makers.
Now I have heard everything!!!!
roflol!
Reminds me of Monopoly.. go to jail!0 -
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Ray Palmer wrote: »What do you think tax is if it is not sharing your wealth? You are assuming it is a loss that LL make just becasue there is an increase. I didn't increase my rent every opportunity but in future I will. Maybe it won't be for a few years but it is swings and roundabouts. No more mister nice guy.
I think we are all feeling just a little angry at the economic situation, that's normal. But I'm sure if one has good tenants they'll want to keep up a good relationship with them. Even from purely a business perspective €100 vs. good up keep of the property? I don't know, I'd be more worried about the value of the property. But also at some time if it means having to increase rent to keep up with the market value then that's what they'll have to do.
Anyway I'm just curious (in a morbid sort of way, it is after all money going out) as to how this new tax will progress and if they are telling us everything about it. 0 -
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One hundred euro to start with
Once the system is streamlined, database sorted and staff up to date they will jack it up.
Maybe two hundred, maybe six hundred, who knows?
Anyway, the market will sort this out.
I'm met my landlord once, he has multiple properties, about fifteen I think. Professional landlord, gets things repaired promptly and is easy to deal with.
Now as for some haphazard amateur landlords, they're the ones I've had issues with. . Some people just are not cut out for it, it's not as simple as watching the rent lodged on internet banking and ignore the tenant.
Not a clue what they're doing. And also not open to rent reductions, I recognize they are under more pressure that professional landlords who bought over a decade ago.
But if they ask me for this property tax I'd laugh at them and then ask do they do think it's worth losing a long term tenant over a small sum as this?
Just one month's vacancy, even two weeks vacancy on most any flat would wipe out that increase0 -
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Ray Palmer wrote: »What do you think tax is if it is not sharing your wealth? You are assuming it is a loss that LL make just becasue there is an increase. I didn't increase my rent every opportunity but in future I will. Maybe it won't be for a few years but it is swings and roundabouts. No more mister nice guy.
I beleive the 2004 tenancy act uses the term "market rate" overly which effectively meant that you could not charge above nor below. It was actually on this forum that people insisted this was the way it stands legally. Haven't read through the law in a while but been told that by a lawyer too as I didn't beleive it either. So apparently legally you can't rent residential property below the market rate. I have no problem accepting it isn't true and ignore it anwya as they would never charge for it
Did I miss something??? 0 -
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