Are you going to pay the household charge? [Part 1]

DoesNotCompute

Red/C Poll indicates that 61 per cent of householders liable for the charge said they would pay it, while 39 per cent saying they would not.


http://www.thejournal.ie/over-half-a-million-have-paid-the-household-charge-401012-Mar2012/


To paraphrase Emperor Palpatine, soon the Rebellion will be crushed and you will all be one of us.

xflyer

hondasam wrote: »

Who should we have voted for? you really think they would have changed everything?

FF had to go but really I think everyone hoped/expected that FG/Lab would do a better job than they're doing.

But they've shown themselves hopelessly out of their depth and not up to the job. Not entirely unexpected.

They are well on their to becoming even more unpopular than FF. Kenny is, as I feared, not up to the job. That's why there was an attempt to oust him by FG. They were right. He needs to go. As for Gilmore, his credibility is shot. Eventually the Labour grass roots won't be able to take anymore of this. Labour is likely to go the way of the Green party.

lugha

hondasam wrote: »

Who should we have voted for? you really think they would have changed everything?

The ULA and Sinn Fein were putting forward the stance (and it certainly was a moral one, sort of!) that the people didn't cause the problem (not entirely true IMO) so therefore they should not have to pay to fix it.

Alas, most people realized that when you are spending 20 billion pa more than you take in you need to deal with that problem in a more pragmatic way, regardless of whether you were responsible or not.

So answer your question though, no, the alternative of SF or ULA would not have changed everything....

Actually they would! They would have made things immeasurably worse! :P

seamus

goz83 wrote: »

hmmmm. Interesting. Increase by 50%, suggesting circa 45% compliance and then doubling in 7 days, suggesting 90% compliance. You must live with black francis in fantasy land.

You might want to go to school. 50% increase = 45%. Doubling = 60%.

tayto lover

drdeadlift wrote: »

Whats black francis going to do when this thread is done and dusted??

He is going into a "Hold Your Breath" contest in anticipation of a new tax being introduced to replace the failed Household Tax. The new tax is to be called the "Last Gasp Tax"

The record in the Hold Your Breath contest is 7 days and the current holder is Hulk Hogan who has been holding his breath all week to no avail,

xflyer

Really there real evidence of delusion here. Claiming victory with 40% or 50% of payments is hilarious. No matter how you spin it, if hundreds of thousands of people are refusing to pay despite the lies the threats and propaganda then it's a defeat for this lame duck government.

On Sunday morning this government will have to face reality and so will you.

donegal_road

black francis wrote: »

That ship has sailed.

nothing is impossible, if you put your mind to it you can do anything you want.

hondasam

xflyer wrote: »

FF had to go but really I think everyone hoped/expected that FG/Lab would do a better job than they're doing.

But they've shown themselves hopelessly out of their depth and not up to the job. Not entirely unexpected.

They are well on their to becoming even more unpopular than FF. Kenny is, as I feared, not up to the job. That's why there was an attempt to oust him by FG. They were right. He needs to go. As for Gilmore, his credibility is shot. Eventually the Labour grass roots won't be able to take anymore of this. Labour is likely to go the way of the Green party.

I agree FF had to go but we have replaced them with the same tbh. I voted for them because they were the only option we had and I thought Enda Kenny and Eamon Gilmore might make some changes but alas I should have know better. Politicians are there for one reason and one reason only to look out for themselves and fcuk the people who elected them.

Buford Tannen

xflyer wrote: »

Really there real evidence of delusion here. Claiming victory with 40% or 50% of payments is hilarious. No matter how you spin it, if hundreds of thousands of people are refusing to pay despite the lies the threats and propaganda then it's a defeat for this lame duck government.

On Sunday morning this government will have to face reality and so will you.

They'll probably wheel out dopey varadkar and his big dopey face,he seems to like the limelight since he got into power

prinz

hondasam wrote: »

What is Universal Social Charge for? The problem here is not every citizen is paying that either.

It's used for going into the government coffers. Are you under the impression that if we weren't paying to recapitalise the banks everything would be rosy? The country would still be billions in debt every year.

goz83

black francis wrote: »

Maybe we could have an election every couple of weeks so we can let all the anger out of our systems and turf out one crowd and repleace them with another.

Still not going to change the underlying problems - There's a big hole in our funding.

There are two holes.

1) The one wasting all our money. It's the same hole that the highest public servants get paid from and the same hole corrupt political pensions are paid from. Seal that hole and I would be much happier to pay this tax.

2) The hole in your face. You really just can't keep it shut even when a valid point is made. If a government gets elected, based on promises, they should be held to it. It is simply not good enough for them to be allowed to continue their terms and claim their handsome pensions when they realise they are not getting back into office. It seems that's the aim. Get elected, get into power and take what you can and run.

goz83

seamus wrote: »

You might want to go to school. 50% increase = 45%. Doubling = 60%.

You might want to check your grammar then.

30% increased by 50% = 45%. Double 45% = 90% and I am sure not even you are that thick to miss that little error, even if you did intend the "double" to be 30% X2.

stevedublin

tayto lover wrote: »

It should have been called the Red C Poll of Foxrock obviously.

People don't get to live in Foxrock by being cowardly or stupid.

seamus

goz83 wrote: »

You might want to check your grammar then.

30% increased by 50% = 45%. Double 45% = 90% and I am sure not even you are that thick to miss that little error, even if you did intend the "double" to be 30% X2.

Actually you might want to check your reading
I'm perfectly happy that the "doubling" referred to in that sentence clearly refers to the subject which is "that figure" of 30%.

I'm sure not even you are that thick to misinterpret what I said, that badly.

Annabella1

http://www.irishtimes.com/letters/

I think the first letter listed is very sensible written by a barrister/solicitor who seems to know what he is talking about...

psychward

prinz wrote: »

It's used for going into the government coffers. Are you under the impression that if we weren't paying to recapitalise the banks everything would be rosy? The country would still be billions in debt every year.

Are you under the impression that if everyone paid this unfair tax then everything would be rosy ? The country would still be billions in debt every year thanks not only to the bloodsucking banks but also due to the kind of people who not only bend over for the banks but who also bend over for the household charge rip off. I have found on my travels that it is usually only the vested interests who have paid the household charge and done so immediately. In fact any survey of who paid what and when would give a good map of the Republics tiny cabal of inbred vested interests.

mikom

Formosa wrote: »

Thread title: "Are you going to pay the household charge?"

I'll leave the attention seeking pontificating to 9000+ posts saddos.

You really know how to cut me to the core.

The poll is there for a reason.
Attention seeking........ Posting your response to the poll and nothing else is the definition of this.
No wonder the country is inefficient.

constitutionus

DoesNotCompute wrote: »

Red/C Poll indicates that 61 per cent of householders liable for the charge said they would pay it, while 39 per cent saying they would not.


http://www.thejournal.ie/over-half-a-million-have-paid-the-household-charge-401012-Mar2012/


To paraphrase Emperor Palpatine, soon the Rebellion will be crushed and you will all be one of us.

yes the polling companies.

the guys that didnt see NICE 1 LISBON 1 and the citizenship referendum coming.



hate to break this to ya lads but when posh people push their microphones into the faces of people with politically incorrect opinions the people involved lie !

unless you can figure out a way they missed 8 out of 10 people in the citizenship one .



oh and 40% non payment would be disasterous for the gov.

the paperwork and court time taken to tackle that would be immense.

prinz

psychward wrote: »

Are you under the impression that if everyone paid this unfair tax then everything would be rosy ? The country would still be billions in debt every year thanks not only to the bloodsucking banks but also due to the kind of people who not only bend over for the banks but who also bend over for the household charge rip off..

Yes it is the people who pay their taxes that put the country in the red. Makes perfect sense boss. I never said anything would be rosy, merely pointing out the stupidity of claiming Irish people are being particularly hard done by in terms of taxes, or that we can't pay anymore taxes/charges than we do. It's even more ironic when people moan about emigration when the countries people seem to be flying off to left, right and centre also have local government taxes and charges.

psychward wrote: »

I have found on my travels that it is usually only the vested interests who have paid the household charge and done so immediately. In fact any survey of who paid what and when would give a good map of the Republics inbred vested interests.

Lol, yes. Enough said.

goz83

seamus wrote: »

at least 30% of people are now registered with one day to the deadline. That figure will increase by at least 50% over the next 72 hours and will double in the next 7 days.

Looks like the "No" side are done.

Seamus, ShameUs, Seamus. Read it slooooowly. will increase by 50% AND will double over 7 days. I now see where the "yes" side are falling down. Sure the government don't know the number of houses in Ireland, so I am being unfair to expect you to get a little calculation right. I'm truly sorry. Hopefully your €100 will go toward some very special community care for you. You make me want to pay.....but then I realise the money will not go on services as the government claim. And who in their right minds would believe the government now? Oh yes, the "yes" side. How sore is yer arse?

tayto lover

stevedublin wrote: »

People don't get to live in Foxrock by being cowardly or stupid.

or not paying their Household Tax

seamus

goz83 wrote: »

Read it slooooowly. will increase by 50% AND will double over 7 days.

I think you need some reading comprehension classes:

"That figure will increase by at least 50% over the next 72 hours and will double in the next 7 days."

That figure = subject

Both of the "will" statements refer to the subject. As in, "That figure...will double in the next 7 days". This is OT anyway, I'm not going to bother debating an offtopic point with someone who can't grasp a simple sentence (or admit when they're wrong). If I said, "and then will double", you would be correct. But I didn't.

Funny how no-one else read my statement that way, isn't it goz?

xflyer

Annabella1 wrote: »

http://www.irishtimes.com/letters/

I think the first letter listed is very sensible written by a barrister/solicitor who seems to know what he is talking about...

So you and he actually think near enough a million people in this country will be getting a criminal record and fines for non payment. You really think that?

He is merely stating the legal position with the law as it stands now and very much a worst case scenario.

In any case this is all irrelevant. We've been constantly fed the distortion by the media, particularly the government station RTE that the huge numbers of non payers is all to do with confusion over how to pay, reluctance to pax tax, that it's unaffordable, that you can't pay it at that post office.

This ignores the essential fact, most people who aren't paying are doing so deliberately to send a message to Hogan, Kenny, Gilmore and rest of them. Most of us are not left wingers. Just ordinary citizens who've had enough of being treated like serfs as we watch our country being humiliated and broken by foreign countries and bankers.

It's a message from the voters.

Frank Black

goz83 wrote: »

2) The hole in your face. You really just can't keep it shut even when a valid point is made. .

you know, you probably shouldn't come on to threads like this of you can't handle people refuting your points.

No need to be so precious.

Micky Dolenz

Mod

goz83, Refrain from baiting or be banned.

Fair warning.


Flaming will result in thread bans.

dvpower

xflyer wrote: »

So you and he actually think near enough a million people in this country will be getting a criminal record and fines for non payment. You really think that?

Neither he nor Annabella1 suggested anything of the sort.

CATHAL MALONE, B.C.L. wrote:

Sir, – Not only do those refusing to pay the household charge expose themselves to potential fines of up to €2,500, and a criminal record (John Sugrue, March 29th), but they also face complications regarding the title to their houses themselves.

Section 8 of the Local Government (Household Charge) Act 2011 states, in part, that “[a]ny household charge, late payment fee or late payment interest due and unpaid by an owner of residential property shall . . . be and remain a charge on the property to which it relates”.

In layman’s terms, this means that the property will be difficult to sell until and unless the charge, and any late payment fees and interest, are paid in full by the owner. Furthermore, those who claim that they will pay the charge “over their dead bodies” are, in a way, more right than they know.

In this regard, section 7 of the same Act provides that the executor of a person who passes away while still owing the household charge must pay the charge (and any penalties and interest due as a result) from the estate of that deceased person. These are all matters to be factored in when deciding whether to register for the charge before Saturday’s deadline. – Yours, etc,

Frank Black

xflyer wrote: »

This ignores the essential fact, most people who aren't paying are doing so deliberately to send a message to Hogan, Kenny, Gilmore and rest of them. Most of us are not left wingers. Just ordinary citizens who've had enough of being treated like serfs as we watch our country being humiliated and broken by foreign countries and bankers.

It's a message from the voters.

Hmmm, and what's the best way for us to escape the clutches of these foreign countries and bankers?

Continue to borrow from them at the current rate to fund the running of this country?

Or balance our budget ASAP and then tell them to write down our unfair debt burden?

lugha

xflyer wrote: »

This ignores the essential fact, most people who aren't paying are doing so deliberately to send a message to Hogan, Kenny, Gilmore and rest of them.

We can only speculate yet as to why people are not paying. And given that it takes more effort (and money!) to comply than it does to rebel, it is a bit of stretch to suggest the single reason that you suggest.

Quite a few more will in fact pay it by the deadline (it looks like more than 50% at this stage). Many people are quite likely adopting a wait and see (will it collapse) approach, which is quite sensible given the minimal late fee. Even those that have definitively decided not to pay are doing so for a myriad of reasons.

To imply that more than half the country are too half-witted to understand that impalpable measures (of which this is merely one) have to be taken to deal with a massive budget deficit is frankly, depressing, and IMO, untrue.

Hogan/Kenny/the banks can “f**K right off” is certainly a grand slogan but some of us prefer to deal with reality.

hondasam

prinz wrote: »

It's used for going into the government coffers. Are you under the impression that if we weren't paying to recapitalise the banks everything would be rosy? The country would still be billions in debt every year.

No I'm not under that impression at all. It does not change the fact the household charge is unfair and we should not be asked to pay another charge.
I have said if they left it at €100 for the next five years I would have no problem paying. I want to know how much they will expect me to pay next year. This idea of paying for the size of your house is not on either.

stevedublin

dvpower wrote: »

Neither he nor Annabella1 suggested anything of the sort.

Yes he did, its in the first sentence (2nd line) of the letter you quoted!