Are you going to pay the household charge? [Part 1]

dvpower

Me wrote:

I'm equally pissed off at the incompetence, corruption and waste.

Izzy Skint wrote: »

well, all i can say is with an attitude like that, this country is going to hit the wall within a few years...if not sooner!

M'kay

MightyBouche

dxhound2005 wrote: »

One little item you overlooked there. The incompetent fools are handing you over (or did in the past) €1700 per year tax free for each of your children.

Izzy Skint wrote: »

well, all i can say is with an attitude like that, this country is going to hit the wall within a few years...if not sooner!....this waste, corruption etc. can not go on if we want to save this little country....this is our chance to say ENOUGH, otherwise it's business as usual for our government.....our government need to put their own house in order first, and fast....oh, and standing up for it's own people would also be nice....what are the odds on that happening??........night all...

You avoided the above. I'm not surprised, seeing as it really doesn't suit your purposes.

Izzy Skint

wprathead wrote: »

individualism lives on

what????.....there are thousands like me.....muppet

dvpower

goz83 wrote: »

Oh and i'm just waiting for the idiot who makes the joke about contraception. Anyone? dvpower maybe? Yeah they tax those too.

Nah. Nothing springs to mind.

alastair

BarackPyjama wrote: »

*sigh*

It's a pre-cursor to a property tax that will cost people €1,500 or €2,000 a year or thereabouts. Depending on the value of your home.

or €300, or €600, if the Irish Times reports are accurate - but feel free to highlight the top end figures that wouldn't apply to most.

heyjude

dvpower wrote: »

the revenue from the Household Charge is ringfenced for local authority funding, including paying staff wages, so you can rest assured about where your €100 - €150 will go.

You say that it is ring fenced so we can rest assured where revenue from the Household Charge will go, but The National Pension Reserve Fund was to quote their website "established in April 2001 to meet as much as possible of the costs of Ireland's social welfare and public service pensions from 2025 onwards", however then it says "Under the National Pensions Reserve Fund and Miscellaneous Provisions Act 2009, the Commission is also required to make investments in credit institutions, as directed by the Minister for Finance where, having consulted the Governor of the Central Bank and the Financial Regulator, he decides such direction as is required, in the public interest".

So initially when the National Pension Reserve Fund was set up in 2001 it was meant to meet the costs of pensions from 2025, but then the law was changed in 2009 and it was used for other purposes. See http://www.nprf.ie/home.html

As this proves, ringfencing means nothing, the government can move the goalposts anytime it likes. Wasn't Income Tax originally introduced to fund a war ? Governments can changes the rules, they have changed the rules and they will continue to change the rules. Ringfencing means nothing.

MightyBouche

BarackPyjama wrote: »

*sigh*

It's a pre-cursor to a property tax that will cost people €1,500 or €2,000 a year or thereabouts. Depending on the value of your home.

You think that this little "movement" will stop that tax? It won't.

If only, if only I could just not pay any tax I didn't personally agree with. Oh how wonderful that would be. Unfortunately, here in reality, the world does not work that way.

BarackPyjama

alastair wrote: »

or €300, or €600, if the Irish Times reports are accurate - but feel free to highlight the top end figures that wouldn't apply to most.

I'd imagine council tax figures in the UK would be a good benchmark to work from.

BarackPyjama

MightyBouche wrote: »

You think that this little "movement" will stop that tax? It won't.

If only, if only I could just not pay any tax I didn't personally agree with. Oh how wonderful that would be. Unfortunately, here in reality, the world does not work that way.

I pay more than enough tax already. We've lived without this one for 100 years, we can live without it now.

MightyBouche

Izzy Skint wrote: »

what????.....there are thousands like me.....muppet

Resorting to petty insults when you have no argument only serves to worsen the already terrible image that the "don't register, don't pay" people have in the eyes and minds of the average Irish person.

BarackPyjama

MightyBouche wrote: »

Resorting to petty insults when you have no argument only serves to worsen the already terrible image that the "don't register, don't pay" people have in the eyes and minds of the average Irish person.

The 'average' Irish person seems to have made the decision not to pay this charge. So far anyway. So don't profess to speak for the average Irish person.

MightyBouche

BarackPyjama wrote: »

I pay more than enough tax already. We've lived without this one for 100 years, we can live without it now.

No, I'm sorry, you're delusional. We're in a situation now that we haven't been in, in the last 100 years. Different times containing different situations require different measures. If you think that you won't be paying more tax over the next few years, you are sorely mistaken.

With any hope, in future the taxes will just be taken at source so the petty and economically challenged can't stand in the way of the country's recovery.

mconigol

Are you people still here?

Not getting dizzy yet?

alastair

heyjude wrote: »

Ringfencing means nothing.

If your premis is that subsequent laws might change current ones, then, yep, ehh I guess. The reality is that the household charge will only last a year or two, and that there's sod all reason to believe that anyone will revisit the act before the next (and publicly debated) act for the subsequent property tax, is entered into law.

alastair

BarackPyjama wrote: »

I'd imagine council tax figures in the UK would be a good benchmark to work from.

Why? As we all know, you get additional services for your UK rates.

MightyBouche

BarackPyjama wrote: »

The 'average' Irish person seems to have made the decision not to pay this charge. So far anyway. So don't profess to speak for the average Irish person.

At, yet another sliver of delusion.

What you mean to say is that the average Irish house owner has made the decision not to pay yet. Average merely due to the numbers involved although I would imagine we'll see more than 50% will have paid by the deadline.

Average Irish house owner != average Irish person.

goz83

MightyBouche wrote: »

the petty and economically challenged can't stand in the way of the country's recovery.

So delete your second account and stand out of the way. I am always suspicious when someone with only a few posts comes in so strongly supporting a particular persons view.

alastair

BarackPyjama wrote: »

I pay more than enough tax already. We've lived without this one for 100 years, we can live without it now.

We had rates until the 70's.

mickydoomsux

goz83 wrote: »

This payment helps to keep our little island full of youth. If only all the youth of a generation didn't have to fly to Australia, that would be great!

Look at Germany...they have a career culture and many people don't have children. Those who do, often just have one. Compare this to the average Irish family. Career driven states = less children.

Oh and i'm just waiting for the idiot who makes the joke about contraception. Anyone? dvpower maybe? Yeah they tax those too.

Yeah, look at stupid Germany, the powerhouse economy of the EU that's bucking the recessionary trend and keeping us afloat. Why would we want to be anything like them?

Also it's been pretty much proven at this stage that most of the young people leaving the country are doing so by choice and the figures aren't really that high anyway. More populist twaddle.

goz83

alastair wrote: »

We had rates until the 70's.

Yeah, we did, but our bins were collected too for those rates among a few other "services".

M cebee

MightyBouche wrote: »

The only certain thing, in such a case, is that the "peasants" remain "peasants", regardless of the outcome.

is that you phil

wp_rathead

Izzy Skint wrote: »

what????.....there are thousands like me.....muppet

don't think you grasp the concept "individualism"

look if we are to get up in arms over something its state of the mental health services, the lack of social workers being employed, no services for people under the care of state when they reach 18, cut backs in Homeless services, inhumane and over crowding conditions of prison etc.

but no, get on ye're high horse about paying 100 because it affects you directly.

now don't get me wrong, its sickening having to pay this charge- but in the grand scheme of things its far down the long list of "what the **** is wrong with this country"

MightyBouche

goz83 wrote: »

So delete your second account and stand out of the way. I am always suspicious when someone with only a few posts comes in so strongly supporting a particular persons view.

What? Stand out of the way? If you've read anything I've posted, you'd see that it's those opposing this charge that I believe to be standing in the way. I don't believe I've lent favour to anyone or their opinion in this thread.

bgrizzley

.

BarackPyjama

MightyBouche wrote: »

If you think that you won't be paying more tax over the next few years, you are sorely mistaken.

I won't be paying it nor will I be eligible for it, of that I can assure you.

MightyBouche wrote: »

With any hope, in future the taxes will just be taken at source so the petty and economically challenged can't stand in the way of the country's recovery.

As I have said before, I have no problem paying additional taxes to aid with the country's recovery. Provided that it's coupled with sensible curtailment of any bloated areas of public and civil spending.

I also have a major problem with tax on a personal property which increases year on year as the government see fit. Such a tax means I will more than likely never purchase a property in this country. Mind you, if it's a tax that actually shows the people that pay it some kind of tangible returns then maybe. Although the way funds are managed at a public level here make me think that the desire to purchase a home in Ireland, for me anyway, will dissipate very quickly with the introduction of further such taxes.

MightyBouche

wprathead wrote: »

don't think you grasp the concept "individualism"

look if we are to get up in arms over something its state of the mental health services, the lack of social workers being employed, no services for people under the care of state when they reach 18, cut backs in Homeless services, inhumane and over crowding conditions of prison etc.

but no, get on ye're high horse about paying 100 because it affects you directly.

now don't get me wrong, its sickening having to pay this charge- but in the grand scheme of things its far down the long list of "what the **** is wrong with this country"

The non-payment of this only serves to worsen your above mentioned issues also, a fact the NIMBY or self-serving (or individualist, as you put it) crowd seem to want to ignore...until they need said services, of course.

goz83

mickydoomsux wrote: »

Also it's been pretty much proven at this stage that most of the young people leaving the country are doing so by choice

It has? Proven where? Do you consider "force" to be a run out of the country with a hand gun held to ones head? Yes, people indeed went by choice. But most made the "choice" because they had no prospect of work and/or no belief that the situation would change in the medium term. Or maybe people who like to work for a living and contribute their fair and just share should just stay on the dole queue and hope enda and phil and the rest of the gang sort out the mess created by the other corrupt sh1tes.

alastair

goz83 wrote: »

Yeah, we did, but our bins were collected too for those rates among a few other "services".

Unlike now, when they provide no services, you mean? Local authorities could afford to provide bin collections without charge when they had proper funding - like rates. Copping out of your property tax obligations won't do anything to help provision of local services.

alastair

BarackPyjama wrote: »

As I have said before, I have no problem paying additional taxes to aid with the country's recovery. Provided that it's coupled with sensible curtailment of any bloated areas of public and civil spending.

:rolleyes:

I will gladly pay you Tuesday, for a hamburger today.

MightyBouche

goz83 wrote: »

It has? Proven where? Do you consider "force" to be a run out of the country with a hand gun held to ones head? Yes, people indeed went by choice. But most made the "choice" because they had no prospect of work and/or no belief that the situation would change in the medium term. Or maybe people who like to work for a living and contribute their fair and just share should just stay on the dole queue and hope enda and phil and the rest of the gang sort out the mess created by the other corrupt sh1tes.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2012/0317/breaking1.html

I'm sure you'll twist that to suit your own agenda, however it certainly backs up what Michael Noonan said not so long ago. At the moment, emigration from Ireland certainly is a lifestyle choice.