Are you going to pay the household charge? [Part 1]

Cantona's Collars

dvpower wrote: »

I missed that report. Specifically which laws are they wanting to change?

It'll be on 9pm news,just caught it on news earlier,was hard to concentrate on it with a 3 yr old running riot.The gist is they want access to ESB,Revenue and other bodies to find out who's living where so they can apply the charge.

dxhound2005

zerks wrote: »

It'll be on 9pm news,just caught it on news earlier,was hard to concentrate on it with a 3 yr old running riot.The gist is they want access to ESB,Revenue and other bodies to find out who's living where so they can apply the charge.

Which wouldn't be news to anyone who has read the legislation. Section 14. pages 16/17 deals with Data Protection and Exchange.


http://www.oireachtas.ie/documents/bills28/bills/2011/7411/b7411s.pdf

dvpower

zerks wrote: »

It'll be on 9pm news,just caught it on news earlier,was hard to concentrate on it with a 3 yr old running riot.The gist is they want access to ESB,Revenue and other bodies to find out who's living where so they can apply the charge.

He seems to be saying that their working with the Data Protection commissioner, and that is going well, but if there are issues, then they're willing to introduce additional legislation.

He is certainly not for turning - that much is clear.

Cantona's Collars

dxhound2005 wrote: »

Which wouldn't be news to anyone who has read the legislation. Section 14. pages 16/17 deals with Data Protection and Exchange.


http://www.oireachtas.ie/documents/bills28/bills/2011/7411/b7411s.pdf

You just excluded 99% of the population,ie. the ones who haven't read this legislation.Some people have waayy too much time on their hands to be able to trawl through legislation.The majority rely on the news & media for this info.

Biggins

dxhound2005 wrote: »

Which wouldn't be news to anyone who has read the legislation. Section 14. pages 16/17 deals with Data Protection and Exchange.

http://www.oireachtas.ie/documents/bills28/bills/2011/7411/b7411s.pdf

I wonder how there are going to get around the EU directive 95 46 EC:

2. This Directive shall not apply to the processing of personal data:

in the course of an activity which falls outside the scope of Community law, such as those provided for by Titles V and VI of the Treaty on European Union and in any case to processing operations concerning public security, defence, State security (including the economic well-being of the State when the processing operation relates to State security matters) and the activities of the State in areas of criminal law;

http://www.dataprotection.ie/viewdoc.asp?m=&fn=/documents/legal/6aii-1c.htm#4

Transparency

The data subject has the right to be informed when his personal data is being processed. The controller must provide his name and address, the purpose of processing, the recipients of the data and all other information required to ensure the processing is fair. (art. 10 and 11)

Data may be processed only under the following circumstances (art. 7):

* when the data subject has given his consent

* when the processing is necessary for the performance of or the entering into a contract

* when processing is necessary for compliance with a legal obligation

* when processing is necessary in order to protect the vital interests of the data subject processing is necessary for the performance of a task carried out in the public interest or in the exercise of official authority vested in the controller or in a third party to whom the data are disclosed

* processing is necessary for the purposes of the legitimate interests pursued by the controller or by the third party or parties to whom the data are disclosed, except where such interests are overridden by the interests for fundamental rights and freedoms of the data subject. The data subject has the right to access all data processed about him. The data subject even has the right to demand the rectification, deletion or blocking of data that is incomplete, inaccurate or isn't being processed in compliance with the data protection rules. (art. 12)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Data_Protection_Directive#Legitimate_purpose

---

Push their luck and hope no one challenges them on it?
Wouldn't be the first time for an Irish government!

dvpower

zerks wrote: »

You just excluded 99% of the population,ie. the ones who haven't read this legislation.Some people have waayy too much time on their hands to be able to trawl through legislation.The majority rely on the news & media for this info.

If you're planning to defy the law, its probably a good idea to read it first.

Cantona's Collars

dvpower wrote: »

If you're planning to defy the law, its probably a good idea to read it first.

Ye quote so much of it in this thread all I need do is read ye're posts.Saves wading through the irrelevant bits;)

D_murph

Of course he is going to be coming out strong. He is hardly going to make it look like he is giving up on it yet. That will come after the end of the month when very few will have paid .

Slick50

dvpower wrote: »

The Revenue currently have the power to make an attachment order on the authorisation of a Principal Officer in the Collector General's office, without any court order. Its quite an inexpensive process.

I see big Phil is still threatening people who don't register, with court action. Perhaps you can forward him a link to this legislation, and save the country some cash like the good patriot you are. Seeing as it's too much trouble to post it here.

I hope he can at least stick to his word on this, and not extend the deadline, so we can knock this thing on the head sooner rather than later.

I notice RTE, have changed their tune slightly too, quoting these figures registered would represent X ammount of €millions, rather than numbers paid.

alastair

robbie7730 wrote: »

Ok now you have confirmed your thinking is away with the fairies. You have actually said that most home owners are wealthy.

They have wealth in their property - sure. That's usually how these things work.

Bruthal

alastair wrote: »

They have wealth in their property - sure. That's usually how these things work.

Not really. There is no wealth in having a single property to use as a home. you keep saying there is, but dont say how.

And i want to know how for the owner, not the government and the handy locked down target rubbish that you say a house is. Its probably hard for you to speak about it in terms of home owners and not from the FG point of view though.

paddy147

I wonder if all the Pro FG/Labour heads here bothered to read the full page article today in the Irish Mail on Sunday about all the FG back bench TDs and councilers saying that the household charge wont stick and is a shambles.

Even the secretary general admitted that she didnt know how many people who registered so far,where actually exempt and that she hadnt a clue how people could be reeled in over non payment,as the system is in a complete state at the moment.

Did any of you read on how Phil Hogan and Joan Burton have allready had to do big climb downs and u-turns with regards their threats and actions.





So then,are all you Enda fans still in denial then??????



Oh and DV Power,Im still waiting an answer from you.

Typical that you keep avoiding me and hiding over the issue I put to you,many times so far.

dvpower

Slick50 wrote: »

I see big Phil is still threatening people who don't register, with court action.

'cos it's against the law not to register, doh!

dvpower

paddy147 wrote: »

I wonder if all the Pro FG/Labour heads here bothered to read the full page article today in the Irish Mail on Sunday ...

*** snigger ***

paddy147

dvpower wrote: »

*** snigger ***

So what then,the various FG back bench TDs and councilers are all telling lies then??

The secretary general is telling lies then?

The MOS paper has made that all up then???

You know better than them???:rolleyes::rolleyes:


I love your silly little replies to all that I have put to you and asked you about.I love how you seem to be in total denial and are pure ignorant too.

You really would do well sitting on the FG front bench sniffing Endas ar5e,with the rest of those muppets.




PS=Quote my entire post or else fcuk off and dont bother here any more.

Bruthal

dvpower wrote: »

'cos it's against the law not to register, doh!

Its against the law to drive at 130kph, but thats a different law of course.

The_Thing

Biggins wrote: »

I wonder how there are going to get around the EU directive 95 46 EC:

They'll probably hand over another few billion when nobody's looking.

I wonder if Government Ministers have to register?? I know they are all exempt from paying, but do they have to register?

I just saw the above comment posted in response to theJournal.ie's latest household charge article - is there any truth in this?

Biggins

paddy147 wrote: »

I wonder if all the Pro FG/Labour heads here bothered to read the full page article today in the Irish Mail on Sunday about all the FG back bench TDs and councilers saying that the household charge wont stick and is a shambles.

Even the secretary general admitted that she didnt know how many people who registered so far,where actually exempt and that she hadnt a clue how people could be reeled in over non payment,as the system is in a complete state at the moment.

Did any of you read on how Phil Hogan and Joan Burton have allready had to do big climb downs and u-turns with regards their threats and actions.

So then,are all you Enda fans still in denial then??????

Oh and DV Power,Im still waiting an answer from you.

Typical that you keep avoiding me and hiding over the issue I put to you,many times so far.

dvpower wrote: »

*** snigger ***

People can snigger at the paper and oft times rightly so, by that don't change the facts behind the story often!

The actual news-report to read: http://img198.imageshack.us/img198/3271/img739.jpg

OPINION: http://img641.imageshack.us/img641/6045/img740o.jpg

howamidifferent

The_Thing wrote: »

I just saw the above comment posted in response to theJournal.ie's latest household charge article - is there any truth in this?

No, thats not true. Its a misconception based on the wording which says properties vested in a minister are exempt. This does not mean their homes, it means public buildings and offices etc owned by state bodies...

Slick50

dvpower wrote: »

'cos it's against the law not to register, doh!

Back to playing obtuse again. And you crying about people selectively quoting you.

Slick50 wrote:

dvpower wrote: »

The Revenue currently have the power to make an attachment order on the authorisation of a Principal Officer in the Collector General's office, without any court order. Its quite an inexpensive process.

I see big Phil is still threatening people who don't register, with court action. Perhaps you can forward him a link to this legislation, and save the country some cash like the good patriot you are. Seeing as it's too much trouble to post it here.

How about responding to the bit highlighted in bold, seeing as you won't post a link, like you so often seek from others.

Biggins

The_Thing wrote: »

They'll probably hand over another few billion when nobody's looking.

Like "a promissory note payment of 3.1 billion euros in March." ?
(Around the 30th I think)

http://www.sovereignindependent.com/?p=33906

Yep, March 31st : http://www.politics.ie/forum/economy/183077-no-promissory-note-change-reason-government-distancing-treaty-vote-2.html

DoesNotCompute

paddy147 wrote: »

I wonder if all the Pro FG/Labour heads here bothered to read the full page article today in the Irish Mail on Sunday about all the FG back bench TDs and councilers saying that the household charge wont stick and is a shambles.

Ah, the bastion of high brow discussion and fine reporting.

Biggins

DoesNotCompute wrote: »

Ah, the bastion of high brow discussion and fine reporting.

While The Mail is a crap paper at times - I take it then you dispute the figures and the statements of the current state of play?

If so, which parts do you dispute - or are you will just to have a go at the paper in too simplification at avoiding decent rebuffing what it over all has reported?

The fact is that FG and Labour have made a complete farce, a complete fcuk-up of the situation.
12%+ so far have paid by the last figures released just VERY recently - and by any standards, thats a complete additional balls-up!

Freddie59

alastair wrote: »

How much did the government spend on your car? Nope - me neither - and yet you're presumably paying tax on the thing year after year.

Doesn't even BEGIN to compare. That tax is a given. This proposed immoral tax in order to pay off private banking debt is completely different. Again an astonishing lack of understanding by you.

The interesting thing is that if the Govermnent reduced the CS/PS wages by just €10 for each one, it would bring in €152m per year. Imagine. The ones causing the deficit actually paying for it.

Then do the same with SW. And so it goes on..

This is very basic math and household budgeting. A child in 1st class could manage this. But our "Government"? No.

delw

howamidifferent wrote: »

No, thats not true. Its a misconception based on the wording which says properties vested in a minister are exempt. This does not mean their homes, it means public buildings and offices etc owned by state bodies...

not having a dig at you howamidifferent but thats b****x IMO,it's just covering their arses when it's changed to "the property tax" & the goverment wont have to pay a cent

Freddie59

gerryo777 wrote: »

Big Phil's getting desperate now.
Threatening all sorts of gestapo tactics.
This will only make people more determined not to pay this tax.
Keep it up folks,

DON'T REGISTER / DON'T PAY

He sure is. Imagine - attempting to change the very legislation which was designed to protect our data and privacy. So that he can railroad an immoral tax. FFS it really is getting better by the day.

Freddie59

alastair wrote: »

How much did the government spend on your car? Nope - me neither - and yet you're presumably paying tax on the thing year after year.

And you seem to have no problem with people who were provided with houses by the state being exempt. Your "logic" truly defies belief.

DoesNotCompute

Biggins wrote: »

While The Mail is a crap paper at times - I take it then you dispute the figures and the statements of the current state of play?

If so, which parts do you dispute - or are you will just to have a go at the paper in too simplification at avoiding decent rebuffing what it over all has reported?

The fact is that FG and Labour have made a complete farce, a complete fcuk-up of the situation.
12%+ so far have paid by the last figures released just VERY recently - and by any standards, thats a complete additional balls-up!

It's a tabloid - it has a tendency to blow things out of proportion. That's not to say that there may be criticisms from the TDs quoted in the article.

With regards to the facts and figures, the LGMA have observed with the NPPR tax, a surge in registrations/payments in the final weeks before the deadline, and they are observing just that happening now with the Household Charge.

EDIT: link - http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/increase-in-numbers-registering-for-household-charge-543786.html

Biggins

DoesNotCompute wrote: »

It's a tabloid - it has a tendency to blow things out of proportion. That's not to say that there may be criticisms from the TDs quoted in the article.

PLEASE point out the things that are wrong.

Their OWN TD's are giving out about how things by FG have been handled over all - that should tell you something!

And yet again in FURTHER example, yet again TD's - cabinet ministers - and FG members are apparently even giving out out how other things too are being done by Noonan and co - even pissing off the EU: http://img252.imageshack.us/img252/9561/img743.jpg

DoesNotCompute wrote: »

With regards to the facts and figures, the LGMA have observed with the NPPR tax, a surge in registrations/payments in the final weeks before the deadline, and they are observing just that happening now with the Household Charge.

So even IF they double up from 12% to 24% - would you call that a FG and Labour success of the process they have screwed up?

Biggins

DoesNotCompute wrote: »

...EDIT: link - http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/increase-in-numbers-registering-for-household-charge-543786.html

So 25% increase of 12% that have paid we can assume, is what?

Yea, some increase!

Quote from one posted on that news report:

They had around 15% signed up last week, so 25% increase on that only puts it up to around 18% or 19%.

Or

Dont ya just love the spin!!!!! a 25% increase on 12% = an extra 3% which is still bad but they are trying to put a spin on it to make it sound better. How come these reports never state the amount of households that have NOT yet paid/registered i.e 1.34Million !!!