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Are you going to pay the household charge? [Part 1]

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    #4802
    M cebee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,431 ✭✭✭M cebee


    il wait esp considering some tds are advocating, non payment

    hopefully there will be a overthrow


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    #4803
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    M cebee wrote: »
    il wait esp considering some tds are advocating, non payment

    hopefully there will be a overthrow

    Oh yeah, an 'overthrow'. Great idea...

    Then when this new regime comes into power, and there's no way to borrow from the international markets - who do you think they're gonna come looking for money off? Yes, you. And you can be damn sure they'll be looking for a lot more than 100 euro.


    The sense of entitlement in this thread is astounding. As for those TD's advocating non-payment - they should be thrown in jail for inciting people (very very stupid people) to break the law.


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    #4804
    tayto lover
    Registered Users Posts: 51,492 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    Rojomcdojo wrote: »
    Oh yeah, an 'overthrow'. Great idea...

    Then when this new regime comes into power, and there's no way to borrow from the international markets - who do you think they're gonna come looking for money off? Yes, you. And you can be damn sure they'll be looking for a lot more than 100 euro.


    The sense of entitlement in this thread is astounding. As for those TD's advocating non-payment - they should be thrown in jail for inciting people (very very stupid people) to break the law.

    Are those who pay entitled to their Stamp Duty back.
    Europeans don't pay Stamp Duty.


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    #4805
    gurramok
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,992 ✭✭✭✭gurramok


    tayto lover wrote: »
    Are those who pay entitled to their Stamp Duty back.
    Europeans don't pay Stamp Duty.

    Why? They abided by the law at the time which stipulated stamp duty be paid on the purchase of a house.

    If you disagreed with this tax like you do now, why would one have bought a house at the time paying the stamp duty? Double standards.


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    #4806
    tayto lover
    Registered Users Posts: 51,492 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    gurramok wrote: »
    Why? They abided by the law at the time which stipulated stamp duty be paid on the purchase of a house.

    If you disagreed with this tax like you do now, why would one have bought a house at the time paying the stamp duty? Double standards.

    I bought my HOME to raise my family there.
    Stamp Duty was already in then so I could not buy without paying it.
    I can and will refuse this unjust Tax though.

    What services will people receive for this charge by the way ?


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    #4807
    tayto lover
    Registered Users Posts: 51,492 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    M cebee wrote: »
    il wait esp considering some tds are advocating, non payment

    hopefully there will be a overthrow

    This Tax will not succeed.


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    #4808
    gurramok
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,992 ✭✭✭✭gurramok


    tayto lover wrote: »
    I bought my HOME to raise my family there.
    Stamp Duty was already in then so I could not buy without paying it.
    I can and will refuse this unjust Tax though.

    What services will people receive for this charge by the way ?

    You could have rented.

    As you are against unjust taxes like stamp duty and property tax\househaold charge, it calls into question your ethics of not paying taxes when you did.

    You just didn't say no at the time, you paid up.


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    #4809
    squod
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,704 ✭✭✭squod


    Rojomcdojo wrote: »
    Oh yeah, an 'overthrow'. Great idea...

    Tis grand.
    Rojomcdojo wrote: »

    Then when this new regime comes into power, and there's no way to borrow from the international markets - who do you think they're gonna come looking for money off? Yes, you. And you can be damn sure they'll be looking for a lot more than 100 euro.

    There's now way now! Noonan denying a second ''bail-out'' is a sure sign we will get one.
    Rojomcdojo wrote: »
    As for those TD's advocating non-payment - they should be thrown in jail for inciting people (very very stupid people) to break the law.

    If you want justice, Cowen gets jail first. Then the rest of his co-conspirators.
    Disagreeing with a ridiculous law. What next? Should we just go back and declare the earth to be flat?


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    #4810
    Frank Black
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,296 ✭✭✭Frank Black


    tayto lover wrote: »
    Are those who pay entitled to their Stamp Duty back.
    Europeans don't pay Stamp Duty.


    Seems to be your main issue Tayto - the amount of Stamp Duty you paid?

    You freely gave this money over to the Goverenment at the time and now you feel a bit stupid at having done so?

    You sound like a child - 'Give me my Stamp Duty back!'

    Guess what - the money is gone so you won't get it back, it's been blown by the previous Govt on a bloated public service. You really only have yourself to blame - you need to 'man up' and accept responsibilty for your actions which have contributed to our current problems.


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    #4811
    dvpower
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,183 ✭✭✭dvpower


    tayto lover wrote: »
    Stamp Duty was already in then so I could not buy without paying it.
    Would you have evaded Stamp Duty if you could have gotten away with it?
    Do you evade other taxes and charges?


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    #4812
    Trevor Kent
    Registered Users Posts: 124 ✭✭Trevor Kent


    No Issue with paying the stamp duty when I bought my house, or VRT on my car when I bought it, I knew they were going to be there when making the decision to purchase. I DO have an issue with paying this household charge. If it was for water rates, id pay (prob much more). If it was for bin collection id pay (prob much more again). What services are we going to receive for this €100? Local services apparently.... wonder will that money go to the councillor who lives an Auz, yet still holds his seat in the local council and gets his €80 a week? Or to the councillors who have voted to keep him there.

    Someone said in a post earlier on why didnt you rent instead of buy? Well I might have if I knew they were going to bring in this tax.
    Bottom line is i am NOT going to pay what is effectively rent on my own house. And please stop saying its only €100 like it will never go up.


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    #4813
    Bruthal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,422 ✭✭✭✭Bruthal


    black francis wrote: »
    Seems to be your main issue Tayto - the amount of Stamp Duty you paid?

    You freely gave this money over to the Goverenment at the time and now you feel a bit stupid at having done so?

    The expert twisting of words again.

    Double taxation is the issue there. You really do see your own meanings to others posts.


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    #4814
    Frank Black
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,296 ✭✭✭Frank Black


    robbie7730 wrote: »
    The expert twisting of words again.

    Double taxation is the issue there. You really do see your own meanings to others posts.


    Double taxation?
    Is that like when you pay PAYE and PRSI on your salary and then buy a car and pay VAT and VRT on that and then pay a motor tax every year - or is that quintuple taxation?


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    #4815
    Bruthal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,422 ✭✭✭✭Bruthal


    dvpower wrote: »
    Would you have evaded Stamp Duty if you could have gotten away with it?
    Do you evade other taxes and charges?

    How is that relevant. If the no side paid every tax liability up to now, will you then accept the objections to this tax? If not, then your question is meaningless.


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    #4816
    Bruthal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,422 ✭✭✭✭Bruthal


    black francis wrote: »
    Double taxation?
    Is that like when you pay PAYE and PRSI on your salary and then buy a car and pay VAT and VRT on that and then pay a motor tax every year - or is that quintuple taxation?

    I was explaining the likely meaning of another posters post before your usual twisting.

    Motor tax again, you were fed up of that comparison yesterday, even though you raised it. And do so again today.

    No dog licence today?


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    #4817
    Bruthal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,422 ✭✭✭✭Bruthal


    gurramok wrote: »
    You could have rented.

    As you are against unjust taxes like stamp duty and property tax\househaold charge, it calls into question your ethics of not paying taxes when you did.

    You just didn't say no at the time, you paid up.

    Why are home owners the target, rather than every adult in the country? Im just curious, what extra money do they have that non home owners dont have?


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    #4818
    drdeadlift
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,189 ✭✭✭drdeadlift


    Rojomcdojo wrote: »
    Oh yeah, an 'overthrow'. Great idea...

    Then when this new regime comes into power, and there's no way to borrow from the international markets - who do you think they're gonna come looking for money off? Yes, you. And you can be damn sure they'll be looking for a lot more than 100 euro.


    The sense of entitlement in this thread is astounding. As for those TD's advocating non-payment - they should be thrown in jail for inciting people (very very stupid people) to break the law.

    There is no regime coming to power.


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    #4819
    Frank Black
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,296 ✭✭✭Frank Black


    robbie7730 wrote: »
    Why are home owners the target, rather than every adult in the country? Im just curious, what extra money do they have that non home owners dont have?


    Probably the same reason that dog owners are the target of a dog license fee.


    Happy now?


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    #4820
    Bruthal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,422 ✭✭✭✭Bruthal


    black francis wrote: »
    Probably the same reason that dog owners are the target of a dog license fee.


    Happy now?

    I was happy before your answer francis. And happy and amused after it.

    But just to ammuse me even further, what are the alternatives to owning a dog, if a person wants one for say,,, 10 years, rent one?


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    #4821
    Ghandee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,653 ✭✭✭Ghandee


    robbie7730 wrote: »
    I was happy before your answer francis. And happy and amused after it.

    But just to ammuse me even further, what are the alternatives to owning a dog, if a person wants one for say,,, 10 years, rent one?

    Take your neighbours dog for a walk.

    Francie's going down with the sinking ship Robbie.

    Leave him to it. :rolleyes:


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    #4822
    seamus
    Registered Users Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    robbie7730 wrote: »
    what are the alternatives to owning a dog
    Not owning one.


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    #4823
    Bruthal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,422 ✭✭✭✭Bruthal


    seamus wrote: »
    Not owning one.

    That was actually my point.

    With houses, owning or renting is the options. One pays a charge, the other doesnt. But they all need a house.

    Dogs, owners pay a €20 yearly licence. Non dog owners dont need a dog. Thats the point. So the comparison by francis is nonsence.


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    #4824
    dvpower
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,183 ✭✭✭dvpower


    robbie7730 wrote: »
    How is that relevant. If the no side paid every tax liability up to now, will you then accept the objections to this tax? If not, then your question is meaningless.
    I'm trying to ascertain the reasons for non paying this tax, that mark it out from other taxes.

    I'm wondering if its just that there is a perception that this tax is easy to evade so tax evaders will attempt to evade any tax they can.


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    #4825
    Frank Black
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,296 ✭✭✭Frank Black


    robbie7730 wrote: »
    I was happy before your answer francis. And happy and amused after it.

    But just to ammuse me even further, what are the alternatives to owning a dog, if a person wants one for say,,, 10 years, rent one?


    The only alternatives to owning a dog if you really want one, but don't want to pay the fee, are to either choose not to own one, or to choose not to pay the fee.

    I suppose you could come up with a third alternative, which would be to mount a campaign of civil disobedience on the basis that a dog tax was inherently unfair and didn't distinguish between different types of dogs. And besides, you bought the dog from a registered breeder and paid VAT on the purchase, so the dog tax is a form of double taxation, and there's a guy down the road, who's minding a dog for a friend who's on holidays and he's getting all the benefits of having the dog, but is not subject to any of the dog license fee. And obviously the dog license is going up next year, everyone knows that. Give me back the VAT I paid on my dog purchase, and I might just consider paying, or if I knew the fee was going to pay for dog ammenities and not to pay of the debts of bankers and developers who've brought this country to it's knees - oh Christ, the unfairness of it all!

    Then you could have local protest marches and release songs on youtube and all that.


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    #4826
    seamus
    Registered Users Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    robbie7730 wrote: »
    With houses, owning or renting is the options. One pays a charge, the other doesnt. But they all need a house.
    If a person renting out a residential property feels aggreived at paying this charge, they are free to increase the rent to compensate for it. Landlords also pay a lot of other charges for a property which they don't use.

    The property's existence is continuous. The renter's is not. Therefore it makes more sense to charge the property, not the renter.

    I fail to see the issue. Local services need to be paid for. Which makes more sense - trying to gather a list of people living in an area and charging them individually, or compiling a list of properties and charging the properties directly?


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    #4827
    dvpower
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,183 ✭✭✭dvpower


    robbie7730 wrote: »
    Non dog owners dont need a dog. Thats the point.
    And a very good one too.:pac:


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    #4828
    Bruthal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,422 ✭✭✭✭Bruthal


    black francis wrote: »
    The only alternatives to owning a dog if you really want one, but don't want to pay the fee, are to either choose not to own one, or to choose not to pay the fee.

    You are the one making the comparisons. The point is, if you choose not to own one, you dont need to actually have the use of one.

    Not everyone needs a dog. Everyone needs a home to live in. But only the ones that bought one, are targeted, as if they in some way use more services, or have more money.

    And the fees are vastly different. Bring in a property tax that equals the dog licence fee, and you can then make your comparisons, even though they are still completely different.
    I suppose you could come up with a third alternative, which would be to mount a campaign of civil disobedience on the basis that a dog tax was inherently unfair and didn't distinguish between different types of dogs. And besides, you bought the dog from a registered breeder and paid VAT on the purchase, so the dog tax is a form of double taxation, and there's a guy down the road, who's minding a dog for a friend who's on holidays and he's getting all the benefits of having the dog, but is not subject to any of the dog license fee. And obviously the dog license is going up next year, everyone knows that. Give me back the VAT I paid on my dog purchase, and I might just consider paying, or if I knew the fee was going to pay for dog ammenities and not to pay of the debts of bankers and developers who've brought this country to it's knees - oh Christ, the unfairness of it all!
    You could of saved yourself typing that nonsence. People just choose to not own a dog, and as such, dont have a dog, dont need to live in a dog, or in fact, have any connection to a dog.
    Then you could have local protest marches and release songs on youtube and all that.
    You could pretend i put no songs on youtube, or went on any marches. Or maybe you realise, i actually did neither. No action is exactly whats needed for the no side.


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    #4829
    Bruthal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,422 ✭✭✭✭Bruthal


    dvpower wrote: »
    And a very good one too.:pac:

    Funny you say that, and francis thanks it. He brought it up. So dont forget to thank him back there for his well spotted comparison.


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    #4830
    rOBeRt frETt
    Registered Users Posts: 159 ✭✭rOBeRt frETt


    Shenshen wrote: »
    It's €100, that's around €8.33 a month.

    I'm finding it absolutely baffling how people can get worked up over this, yet will happily spend as much on a single drink on a night out....

    Get a grip. Seriously.

    Great, will you pay mine so btw it might be ever so slightly more next year- and for the rest of your life

    Your logic is this- wow people have no problem spending their own money on THEMSELVES !!!! Geez like c'mon people seriously


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    #4831
    ebbsy
    Registered Users Posts: 6,737 ✭✭✭ebbsy


    The percentage of people who have not paid yet is so high that its likely to be around half, would you say ?


This discussion has been closed.
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