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Are you going to pay the household charge? [Part 1]

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    #4772
    Bruthal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,422 ✭✭✭✭Bruthal


    squod wrote: »

    Bank owns my house, I don't rent and the head of a household is another legal minefield. It must have taken an accomplished bunch of ejits to pen this law.

    The bank actually does not own the home legally though. The home owner owns it. They just have an outstanding debt secured on it, which happens to be the mortgage that bought it.


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    #4773
    gurramok
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,992 ✭✭✭✭gurramok


    squod wrote: »
    Householders* have until March 31 to register and the Government has warned that those who fail to pay up will be summoned to court.

    I wonder if those who refuse to pay will be splashing out 100 quid on a suit for their court appearances :D


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    #4774
    Ghandee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,653 ✭✭✭Ghandee


    black francis wrote: »
    No, I'm sugegesting that you've been unable to prove your contention that the Household Charge is significantly more 'discriminatory' than other forms of taxation.
    I suspect ye already know you've lost the argument on this point, which is why you're attempting to make the argument about something different.
    black francis wrote: »
    Better than "good girl :rolleyes:", I suppose.

    Your like a little frightened animal that's been backed into a corner now tbh.

    I think you should give it up now Francis. Your argument is over now.


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    #4775
    Slick50
    Registered Users Posts: 1,062 ✭✭✭Slick50


    Beubeu wrote: »
    Dont get me wrong there, as i am not here to judge you or anyone else but you dont have to buy to live somewhere. Rent is acceptable too (actually renting a property makes way more economical sense than buying nowadays, even during the celtic tiger).

    Renting may be acceptable to you, but I didn't fancy spending my life paying for somebody elses property. If renting makes so much sense, why were so many people buying buy to let properties.
    Beubeu wrote: »
    Banks are probably robbers but we signed their papers and were delighted to get mortgage that we knew we wont be able to pay.

    Speak for yourself, I didn't.
    Beubeu wrote: »
    Its sad that people with kids have to suffer but I dont think that property taxes is the core of our problems right now.

    It may not be, but it is not necessary to tax a persons home. They can find other ways that doesn't put an implied threat on your home.


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    #4776
    dvpower
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,183 ✭✭✭dvpower


    Slick50 wrote: »
    Why do you think they are not giving a break down of the registered figures, re: those registering and actually paying, and those registering to claim a waiver.
    No idea. I expect a full breakdown to be made available in due course.
    Do you think Joe Higgins has some secret back channel to the data?
    Slick50 wrote: »
    Also, "considerate" TD's going around exempt estates encouraging people to register. Would they not be doing better trying to encourage people liable to pay, to register and do so?
    I've already given my view on this a good number of pages back.
    Am Chile wrote: »
    Todays story reads many pensioners are afraid if they refuse to pay the household tax they will be evicted from their homes and placed into state care, so Il repeat what I said in my last post the goverment have sunk a new low Intimidating eldery people like this.

    Where exactly have the government said or insinuated that elderly people "will be evicted from their homes and placed into state care"?


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    #4777
    Frank Black
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,296 ✭✭✭Frank Black


    Ghandee wrote: »
    Your like a little frightened animal that's been backed into a corner now tbh.

    Hang on, let me guess.

    A sheep?



    It was a sheep wasn't it?


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    #4778
    Ghandee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,653 ✭✭✭Ghandee


    gurramok wrote: »
    I wonder if those who refuse to pay will be splashing out 100 quid on a suit for their court appearances :D

    How many times?

    Its nothing to do with how much, its to do with it being unfair.


    If the govt came out, told us honestly that the true destination of the cash was in fact to pay back banking debts, perhaps their wouldn't be so much opposition.

    Secondly, if they gave us some assurances that once we paid up, they would abolish all of the various charges we pay for at present (fire/ambulance, waste collection, tolled roads, extortionate motor tax, impending metered water etc etc) their wouldn't be so much outrage either.


    Why should we pay twice? Why?

    I asked this to the local FG representative who called to my door last Fri, urging me to register even though my whole estate is exempt, he stuttered and murmured like a half wit, turned on his heels, and sheepishly toddled off out of my drive way.


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    #4779
    squod
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,704 ✭✭✭squod


    robbie7730 wrote: »
    The bank actually does not own the home legally though. The home owner owns it. They just have an outstanding debt secured on it, which happens to be the mortgage that bought it.

    No, no they do own it. If what you're saying is correct, there'd be no need for a mortgage contract. The title deeds are with the bank, not me.


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    #4780
    gremha
    Closed Accounts Posts: 98 ✭✭gremha


    To be honest, I (& I suspect most people) wouldn't be adverse to paying this charge under the following conditions (or similar):

    1. The money is solely used for support of local services and accounts are published each year to prove this.
    2. It's payable on a monthly basis.
    3. Everybody pays. EVERYBODY. No exclusions.
    4. It's index linked & only raises with inflation.

    I'd actually be happy to pay several multiples of it per year under the above conditions, if it meant I didn't have separate billing for rubbish etc. Unfortunately none of the above will happen so for that reason, I'm not going to pay.


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    #4781
    Frank Black
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,296 ✭✭✭Frank Black


    squod wrote: »
    No, no they do own it. If what you're saying is correct, there'd be no need for a mortgage contract. The title deeds are with the bank, not me.

    They're held by the Bank.

    Your name is on them though.


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    #4782
    Bruthal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,422 ✭✭✭✭Bruthal


    gurramok wrote: »
    I was at the vending machine today and spotted packets of Tayto and King side by side. Guess which packet I bought? :D :pac:

    Monster munch id say, with them big smiley faces.


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    #4783
    Ghandee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,653 ✭✭✭Ghandee


    black francis wrote: »
    Hang on, let me guess.

    A sheep?



    It was a sheep wasn't it?

    Lol, your gas.


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    #4784
    gerryo777
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,216 ✭✭✭gerryo777


    robbie7730 wrote: »
    Monster munch id say, with them big smiley faces.
    Probably popcorn like the ones you get at the cinema, you know, not very substantial and full of hot air!:D


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    #4785
    Bruthal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,422 ✭✭✭✭Bruthal


    squod wrote: »
    No, no they do own it. If what you're saying is correct, there'd be no need for a mortgage contract. The title deeds are with the bank, not me.

    You are the legal owner. The mortgage contract is the contract to say you agree to pay the loan back in the agreed time frame, and that the property is secured on it. And are committed to going ahead with the purchase.

    Your name is on the deeds. A court hearing is needed for the bank to repossess the home if you default. If they owned the house, they could simply tell you to leave.


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    #4786
    tayto lover
    Registered Users Posts: 51,492 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    black francis wrote: »
    Better than "good girl :rolleyes:", I suppose.

    What ??? You are a female !!! Why not Frances then ? Genuinely did not know that.


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    #4787
    Ghandee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,653 ✭✭✭Ghandee


    tayto lover wrote: »
    What ??? You are a female !!! Why not Frances then ? Genuinely did not know that.

    No Tayto, he's 'having a go' at me.
    I presume he's male.


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    #4788
    Frank Black
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,296 ✭✭✭Frank Black


    tayto lover wrote: »
    What ??? You are a female !!! Why not Frances then ? Genuinely did not know that.

    No, I'm a bloke.

    Quote was in reference to a previous post by everyones favourite sexist, Ghandee.


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    #4789
    cloptrop
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,923 ✭✭✭cloptrop


    If people dont pay itll be just twice as dear next year to allow for the cost of recouping the paople that dont pay.
    Its like the tough uncle ripping up the parking fine then going and paying it once he gets the threatening letter. This is all that will happen, 95 per cent of people will rush out and pay it once they get the first threatening letter.
    Id love some form of revolution in this country but itll never happen , even if we stormed the dail and physically booted Enda Kenny out the next election Fianna Fail would be voted back in , nobody will go far left or right , they just wanna complain.


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    #4790
    tayto lover
    Registered Users Posts: 51,492 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    lividduck wrote: »
    And replace them with what?
    SF, a party that condems in the Republic (or Down Here, as they prefer to call my country) the policies that it pursues in government in Northern Ireland? Or Independents, like we really need Lowery, the Healy raes, and Ming the Muppet in power.
    Im no fan of FF?FG/or the Labour, but their is no alternative to those three at the moment, unless someone wants to start a new centre right party.

    I have asked that question many times of my friends. Some suggested S.F. and the Left together and when I suggested that they would be useless at running the economy the general answer was "Sure can they be any worse than the crowd of "yes men" we have at the minute, sure isn't Angela our real Taoiseach". At least S.F. would stand up and fight.
    People are giving up hope and have little faith in Fine Gael/Labour too.


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    #4791
    Ghandee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,653 ✭✭✭Ghandee


    cloptrop wrote: »
    If people dont pay itll be just twice as dear next year to allow for the cost of recouping the paople that dont pay.
    Its like the tough uncle ripping up the parking fine then going and paying it once he gets the threatening letter. This is all that will happen, 95 per cent of people will rush out and pay it once they get the first threatening letter.
    Id love some form of revolution in this country but itll never happen , even if we stormed the dail and physically booted Enda Kenny out the next election Fianna Fail would be voted back in , nobody will go far left or right , they just wanna complain.

    Listen.

    It will keep going up and up and up every year regardless.



    Don't fool yourself otherwise.


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    #4792
    cloptrop
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,923 ✭✭✭cloptrop


    I say let Germany take over , they seem sound enough.


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    #4793
    tayto lover
    Registered Users Posts: 51,492 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    gurramok wrote: »
    I wonder if those who refuse to pay will be splashing out 100 quid on a suit for their court appearances :D

    They will have plenty of time to choose one then. There will be such a backlog that the courts could not keep up. This is a battle the Govt cannot win if the "Don't Pay" side stick it out. It will be reversed at the next election.


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    #4794
    Slick50
    Registered Users Posts: 1,062 ✭✭✭Slick50


    dvpower wrote: »
    Do you think Joe Higgins has some secret back channel to the data?

    No, I think he has made a reasonable assumption that a percentage of those who have registered, did so to claim a waiver. If it was an insignificant percentage, I think they would be publishing it.
    dvpower wrote: »
    I've already given my view on this a good number of pages back.

    Your not always so averse to repeating yourself.
    dvpower wrote: »
    Where exactly have the government said or insinuated that elderly people "will be evicted from their homes and placed into state care"?

    The whole idea of telling people that if they don't pay this tax that is "due on their homes" they face penalties and fines, possibly court appearances, is a threat. It is perfectly understandable that elderley people would fear the worst, after spending the larger part of their working lives paying for their homes. It casts a shadow of doubt on what was, and should be security.

    That is also why it is the owner, rather than the tenant who is liable.

    It is disgraceful.


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    #4795
    zumi
    Registered Users Posts: 26 ✭zumi


    Here's a little song for the non believers, Share and enjoy!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9OvSGEGPVoE&feature=youtu.be


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    #4796
    dvpower
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,183 ✭✭✭dvpower


    Slick50 wrote: »
    The whole idea of telling people that if they don't pay this tax that is "due on their homes" they face penalties and fines, possibly court appearances, is a threat.
    Let me get this straight. You think that telling people that the tax is "due on their homes" is akin to telling them that they "will be evicted from their homes and placed into state care"?


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    #4797
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    zumi wrote: »
    Here's a little song for the non believers, Share and enjoy!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9OvSGEGPVoE&feature=youtu.be

    I actually thought that this thread couldn't get any stupider.


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    #4798
    dvpower
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,183 ✭✭✭dvpower


    zumi wrote: »
    Here's a little song for the non believers, Share and enjoy!
    A campaign song. Excellent.
    Was it your own work?


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    #4799
    dvpower
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,183 ✭✭✭dvpower


    Rojomcdojo wrote: »
    I actually thought that this thread couldn't get any stupider.
    This thread goes all the way to minus 1.


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    #4800
    zumi
    Registered Users Posts: 26 ✭zumi


    Just a little something I picked up on the "Campaign Against Household cnd Water Taxes" Facebook page. Rojo'll be humming it all day tomorrow now.... Its a grower =)


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    #4801
    Slick50
    Registered Users Posts: 1,062 ✭✭✭Slick50


    dvpower wrote: »
    Let me get this straight. You think that telling people that the tax is "due on their homes" is akin to telling them that they "will be evicted from their homes and placed into state care"?

    No, I meant....
    Originally Posted by Slick50
    The whole idea of telling people that if they don't pay this tax that is "due on their homes" they face penalties and fines, possibly court appearances, is a threat.


This discussion has been closed.
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