Are you going to pay the household charge? [Part 1]

namloc1980

dvpower wrote: »

I can't tell the future, but one option might be to get an attachment order on your income.
Or a simple court order.

The cost in terms of time and money wise of obtaining such an order through the courts would be far in excess of the household charge. Now imagine the administrative work involved in trying to obtain 100k of these orders and every court in the land would be dealing exclusively with household charge cases for many many years.

Am Chile

dxhound2005 wrote: »

Not one TD from Fine Gael, Labour or Fianna Fail has come out against the tax. I'm not sure about Sinn Fein's TD's but the party position is that people should not defy the law. The campaign is just the Socialist Party and Independents who have to be for more spending and against taxation to have any hope of being re-elected. And various other fringe Marxist types intent on disrupting capitalism. If this is the sort of representation you expect to be around in the long term to look after the interests of private property I think you will be disappointed.

While not one td from those parties may of come out against the tax, some councilers from other parties actually have and backed non payment of the household tax.

Local Fianna Fáil declared publicly not to pay

http://www.carlow-nationalist.ie/tabId/369/itemId/14023/Protesters-picket-council.aspx#.T1-CHB153iY.facebook

dvpower

namloc1980 wrote: »

The cost in terms of time and money wise of obtaining such an order through the courts would be far in excess of the household charge. Now imagine the administrative work involved in trying to obtain 100k of these orders and every court in the land would be dealing exclusively with household charge cases for many many years.

An attachment order would be pretty simple to process and enforce.
if you haven't paid your property tax for a number of years and it does increase, as expected, year by year, your going to end up with a pretty big liability. An attachment order would be very cost effective.

As I said - your picking a very risky strategy.

dxhound2005

Am Chile wrote: »

Fast forward to 15 Minutes into the video, you will hear Sinn Feins position.

Pearse Doherty said he is not advocating that people should not pay. But if they didn't pay he would back them (without saying how).

The most likely alternative government which could be formed if this one falls would include Sinn Fein. Would they make it a condition that the Household Charge / Property Tax would be abolished? The only way I have to judge them is that they did absolutely nothing in the North to abolish domestic rates.

Ghandee

dxhound2005 wrote: »

Not one TD from Fine Gael, Labour or Fianna Fail has come out against the tax. I'm not sure about Sinn Fein's TD's but the party position is that people should not defy the law. The campaign is just the Socialist Pa

rty and Independents who have to be for more spending and against taxation to have any hope of being re-elected. And various other fringe Marxist types intent on disrupting capitalism. If this is the sort of representation you expect to be around in the long term to look after the interests of private property I think you will be disappointed.

I find it hard to believe that someone with the amazing ability like yours, that can magically produce links to various 'facts and statistical figures' such as you, shouldn't be clear on how Sinn Fein felt about the household charge.

February 24, 2012

Sinn Féin spokesperson on environment, community and local government Brian Stanley TD has welcomed UNITE's decision today to oppose the household charge.

Speaking after UNITE’s executive made its decision today Deputy Stanley said:

“This is the second major union to come out publicly in the last week against this charge. UNITE’s opposition follows a similar decision by SIPTU.

“This is a double blow to the government. But the Labour Party in particular must take heed as both UNITE & SIPTU are affiliated to the Labour Party.

“Sinn Féin now looks forward to other unions coming out in support of the campaign against Household Charges.

“It is time for the Minister Hogan to admit he got it wrong and to reverse the charge and to reinstate local government funding.” ENDS

Full article here.

http://www.sinnfein.ie/contents/22639

Now you know.

LETHAL LADY

I havent paid it yet, but I reckon the KGB type fella on the news tonight may have a lot of people running scared.

Ghandee

dxhound2005 wrote: »

Pearse Doherty said he is not advocating that people should not pay. But if they didn't pay he would back them (without saying how).

The most likely alternative government which could be formed if this one falls would include Sinn Fein. Would they make it a condition that the Household Charge / Property Tax would be abolished? The only way I have to judge them is that they did absolutely nothing in the North to abolish domestic rates.

Lol....

Changed your tune......

dxhound2005

Ghandee wrote: »

I find it hard to believe that someone with the amazing ability like yours, that can magically produce links to various 'facts and statistical figures' such as you, shouldn't be clear on how Sinn Fein felt about the household charge.




Full article here.

http://www.sinnfein.ie/contents/22639

Now you know.

The party line is that people should not defy the law. As articulated here by Aengus O'Snodaigh.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2011/1215/householdcharge.html

Sinn Féin's Aengus Ó Snodaigh has said he will not encourage people to refuse to pay the new household charge because he will not be able to help them if they find themselves faced with fines or imprisonment in the future.

Deputy Ó Snodaigh said he personally will not pay the charge, but he does not want people left in the lurch if they do not understand the consequences of their action.

dxhound2005

Ghandee wrote: »

Lol....

Changed your tune......

I have no idea what you mean.

Am Chile

LETHAL LADY wrote: »

I havent paid it yet, but I reckon the KGB type fella on the news tonight may have a lot of people running scared.

He may Intimidate some people, but he won,t Intimidate a lot of other people. public meetings have being going on around the country the last five months, poeple know the goverment are gonna try every scare tactic they can think of to get people to register and pay the household tax.

golfwallah

namloc1980 wrote: »

Well you tell me what they will do?

Well, it won't be the end of civilization as we know it, quite yet. And the courts won't be crammed with non-payers, either.

All that will happen, according to Household Charges online site is:

The owner of the property will become liable to Late Payment Fees and Interest.

After that " Furthermore, both the €100 charge and any accumulated late payment fee will be a charge against the property concerned and will continue to be such for twelve years after the charge or late payment penalties concerned became due. Any Household Charges or late payment penalties due on a residential property will have to be discharged, in full, before a transfer or sale of the property can be completed".

See also link attached: https://www.householdcharge.ie/Faq.aspx#fk1

cloptrop

I didnt even bother reading the thread , just burned me house dwn , **** them , thats saved me 8.33 a month until I buy another house .
Whos laughing now Enda you ****wit.

mikom

golfwallah wrote: »

Well, it won't be the end of civilization as we know it, quite yet. And the courts won't be crammed with non-payers, either.

All that will happen, according to Household Charges online site is:

The owner of the property will become liable to Late Payment Fees and Interest.

After that " Furthermore, both the €100 charge and any accumulated late payment fee will be a charge against the property concerned and will continue to be such for twelve years after the charge or late payment penalties concerned became due. Any Household Charges or late payment penalties due on a residential property will have to be discharged, in full, before a transfer or sale of the property can be completed".

See also link attached: https://www.householdcharge.ie/Faq.aspx#fk1

The late fee charges are just 42 Euro for the first year.
Keep calm and carry on..............Just bide your time folks.
See what happens by the next budget.

Let the others kneel before Zod if they wish.

Am Chile

90 % still haven,t paid or registered in donegal

http://www.donegaldaily.com/2012/03/14/cant-pay-couldnt-be-bothered-to-pay-donegal-snub-to-household-charge/

cloptrop

Am Chile wrote: »

90 % still haven,t paid or registered in donegal

http://www.donegaldaily.com/2012/03/14/cant-pay-couldnt-be-bothered-to-pay-donegal-snub-to-household-charge/

They will do though , they just leave it untill the last minute so they can talk about how tough they are, its a donegal thing ,

Am Chile

cloptrop wrote: »

They will do though , they just leave it untill the last minute so they can talk about how tough they are, its a donegal thing ,

You think?

DONEGAL'S population has grown by 13,663 people in the last five years, according to Census 2011. The preliminary report shows that the county's population has grown from 147,264 in 2006 to 160,927 today

http://www.inishowennews.com/011DonegalCensus308.htm

Good luck gettting 90% out of 160,927 to register for the household tax in the next two weeks.

RiseToTheTop

What will the goverment do if the vast majority of people don't pay?

The government say they will impose fines, but that is not practical is 80% of people don't pay.

D_murph

RiseToTheTop wrote: »

What will the goverment do if the vast majority of people don't pay?

$hit their pants .

The government say they will impose fines, but that is not practical is 80% of people don't pay.

Exactly and they will spend the next 20 years (and a lot more money that they would have collected if everyone paid) trying to track down everyone.

On another note, I do reckon they are crapping it over this right now. If we beat them on this (and it looks more than likely at this stage) then we will have shown the whole country what to do the next time they try to bring in something like this. Kinda like blooding a hunting dog .

They have a lot more to lose on this than the €160M euro, thats for sure so be prepared for at least another wave or 2 of lies and BS in order to try and scare you into paying.

We have them by the balls now, time to squeeze .

TwoShedsJackson

At a penalty of €10 a month I'm quite happy not to pay - and as for a judgment being reserved against the property, who gives a damn? I'm over 70k in negative equity so I'm not exactly trembling at the prospect of having a judgment for a couple of hundred euro registered against it.

Dubit10

Not paying and neither are most of my workmates.

Bruthal

gurramok wrote: »

Perhaps you prefer a sky high income tax rate to make up for the selfish don't tax my home brigade??

Earlier you were saying its a paltry €100. Now its a sky high tax?

Which is it?

gurramok

robbie7730 wrote: »

Earlier you were saying its a paltry €100. Now its a sky high tax?

Which is it?

Ah, Mr. Wordsman again. Note the word perhaps in response to the other poster.

we CHOSE not to pay property tax and to fund the maintenance of our infrastructure through higher direct and indirect taxation and HAVE done since 77.

So far you robbie7730 have not presented any ideas on how to replace a property tax.

Ghost Buster

Perhaps off topic but treat me like the simpleton i am:
How does my (or anybodys) 100 euro help the economy? This is 100 which is in a sealed unit namely 'Ireland'. If I dont give it away in tax i will spend it elsewhere and HEY PRESTO it is still in the economy either way. The fact that my wages come from the good auld tax payer as it is then i am simply passing money back and forth between myself and The Govt. Surely the only money which helps is money from outside of Ireland.
Please note the 'simpleton' disclaimer when replying.
:P

golfwallah

RiseToTheTop wrote: »

What will the goverment do if the vast majority of people don't pay?

The government say they will impose fines, but that is not practical is 80% of people don't pay.

Simple computer program to calculate penalties and fines - it's not unprecedented or rocket science.

If it remains unpaid, there will be a charge on your property when it comes to be transferred (on sale, death, etc.) - "You will require a Certificate of Discharge when selling/transferring ownership of a property".

Again, won't cause the court system to be clogged up or the fall of the Government.

mikom

golfwallah wrote: »

Simple computer program to calculate penalties and fines - it's not unprecedented or rocket science.

Like the one for the second home tax.
The one that the local authorities have given up on.........

HUNDREDS of people are likely to escape the tax on second homes after the authorities admitted it is too expensive and time consuming to pursue those who have refused to pay it.
The Department of the Environment admitted resources were not available to pinpoint the identities of those dodging the €200-a-year non-principal private residence (NPPR) charge.
A spokesman said it would be a costly and time-consuming task to correlate information from land registry records -- a task beyond the capabilities of most cash-strapped county councils.


http://www.independent.ie/national-news/hundreds-escape-secondhome-tax-2913935.html

smash

gurramok wrote: »

So far you robbie7730 have not presented any ideas on how to replace a property tax.

It wouldn't need to be introduced if the motor tax and VRT was never changed. Household tax will bring in 170m, in 2009 alone the government lost 700m in VRT even without taking motor tax into consideration.

Bruthal

gurramok wrote: »

Ah, Mr. Wordsman again. Note the word perhaps in response to the other poster.

O right so, im a wordsman now. Well, the "perhaps" word would be a suggestion of an alternatibe to have a sky high income tax, instead of a paltry property tax.

And just in case you are having difficulty reading other posts, which has been suggested more than once yeaterday, here it is simplified...

If the property tax is paltry, why would a sky high income tax be needed as an alternative? The word "perhaps" does not answer that. After all, the property tax is going to come out of peoples income. Read slowly now, before coming back with your silly "wordsman" replies, when you wont read others posts properly.

So far you robbie7730 have not presented any ideas on how to replace a property tax.

It is not about replacing it, its not in fully yet. The thread is asking will we pay the property tax. What is my answer, if you have read the whole thread?

gurramok

robbie7730 wrote: »

O right so, im a wordsman now. Well, the "perhaps" word would be a suggestion of an alternatibe to have a sky high income tax, instead of a paltry property tax.

And just in case you are having difficulty reading other posts, which has been suggested more than once yeaterday, here it is simplified...

If the property tax is paltry, why would a sky high income tax be needed as an alternative? The word "perhaps" does not answer that. After all, the property tax is going to come out of peoples income. Read slowly now, before coming back with your silly "wordsman" replies, when you wont read others posts properly.

You obviously didn't read. Its paltry for 2012 which is the year we're discussing.
The other poster was discussing the future and rightly it will have to go up as after all the deficit has to be narrowed. It works perfectly in nearly every other country in Europe, why not here. If not implemented out of greed by a section of naysayers, income tax will have to be raised to plug the hole.

robbie7730 wrote: »

It is not about replacing it, its not in fully yet. The thread is asking will we pay the property tax. What is my answer, if you have read the whole thread?

You will pay it, I don't think you are of the type that likes breaking the law.

golfwallah

mikom wrote: »

Like the one for the second home tax.
The one that the local authorities have given up on.........

How do you know they will do the same thing for Household Charges?

There is a lot more at stake this time and there's more than one way to skin a cat.

But I guess time will tell, determination of the Government, outcome of the referendum on the EU, etc.

dvpower

mikom wrote: »

Like the one for the second home tax.
The one that the local authorities have given up on.........

The compliance rate for the NPPR was very high, so moving to proactive enforcement on the remainder probably isn't a priority.

The question was what would they do if 80% didn't pay the household charge - that's a completely different ball game.