General Star Trek thread

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118101194#Comment_118101194

Did, then threatened more afterwards (AFAIR)

Worf is also on thin ice, with regards to carrying out the order. You can even see that he knew it was a bogus order, yet still fired

https://youtu.be/XGcAbI-4_io

No matter what way you put it, there is no excuse for creating/threatening a refugee crisis through ethnic cleansing.

This was all to satisfy Ben's hurt pride. This was worse than his actions in In The Pale Moonlight, this implicated his crew.

Eddington won, no two ways about it.

pixelburp

The most ... bizarre aspect of that video, for me, is that its title is "This is why Sisko is the most badass captain". Jesus laddie, he sterilised a whole planet out of spite, and has clearly lost the plot; that isn't badass.

As an aside, I will never get tired of Avery Brooks' diction and approach to acting; that shouting style where it's like he's gasping for breath.

I know, I did laugh at the title.

Evade

To play Sisko's advocate for a minute, he didn't create a refugee crisis, he ended one. Because of <sci-fi reasons> the Cardassians Eddington used WMDs on and the Humans (and possibly other species) Sisko used WMDs on were able to swap planets with no ill effects once they did.

Was it still wrong? Yes. Was it a poorly written/executed idea? Yes.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118101899#Comment_118101899

He made a planet uninhabitable and was, honestly, going to do the same to others. One would assume that, based on Eddington's comments, each planet would have thousands of people.

Two wrongs don't make a right and Sisko had to betray Federation values to do so

Evade

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118102073#Comment_118102073

Uninhabitable for humans.

AMKC

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118102133#Comment_118102133

Exactly Cardassians or Romulans if they so wanted or Klingons or Vulcans or Bajorans could still go to that planet visit it and even live there.

I thought it was an excellently written episode but maybe not something a Starfleet officer should be doing. Picard never would have went this far or Janeway either but Kirk might have. Sisko however did. Some people think he is baddass because of that well good for them. I think he could have solved it better than doing what he did. By doing that he was saying it was OK for Eddington to have done what he did.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118102133#Comment_118102133

Wikipedia definition but matches other definitions...

Ethnic cleansing is the systematic forced removal of ethnic, racial, and religious groups from a given area, with the intent of making a region ethnically homogeneous.

It's a war crime. Not between 2 sovereign states but still an armed conflict.

Thousands of individuals. May be designated a Maquis planet but most of those were colony worlds, prior to that.

How many civilians, kids, non-combatants were on the planet? Did he check, did he care?

It was a terribly written episode but it got to air, in the middle of the DS9 run, so there we have it. Starfleet and the Federation either did not care or did not care to look at what happened.

It casts a very cold light over the ideals of the Federation

Evade

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118102490#Comment_118102490

I don't dispute it could be defined as ethnic cleansing but he didn't render the planet uninhabitable. Also by that definition Picard attempted a little Starfleet sanctioned ethnic cleansing in Journey's End and succeeded at it in the Ensigns of Command.

JayRoc

It still pales in comparison (in my opinion) to what Janeway did to Tuvix. Disgusting.

The worst crime of all the captains.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118103504#Comment_118103504

Worse than abandoning her Salamander children on a strange planet

a_squirrelman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118103504#Comment_118103504

He was an abomination 😅

pixelburp

I never quite got the Tuvix accusation; even if this new creature was a sapient, it was born from two separate sapients joined without their consent. "Needs of the many" to me would dictate that the restoration of current, existing lives trumped the days-old existence of a galactic fluke.

Sad Professor

Yeah I thought Tuxiv was one of Janeway’s finer moments. Making a difficult decision which, as I recall, everyone but the doctor agreed with even if they didn’t say it.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118105308#Comment_118105308

They were dead. They died in a transporter accident

Stark

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118105005#Comment_118105005

I'm sure the fact that he was creepy and ugly looking AF made the decision a lot easier 🙂 Would probably have been made even easier again if they found a way to get just Tuvok back while sacrificing Neelix in the process.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118105960#Comment_118105960

I'm pretty sure Janeway would have taken that option. It was all about saving Tuvok

Evade

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118106009#Comment_118106009

Which is ironic considering Tuvix seemed to be better at Tuvok's job than Tuvok.

AMKC

Look who turns up in this new film,

https://youtu.be/Xif8QHeMPak

Good to see. He deserved and deserves more success.

AMKC

Also I see Colm Meaney was on Claire Byrne Live on Monday night via video link. Only just getting to watch it myself now but he is talking about climate change on it. He has a 16 year old daughter by the way.

Evade

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118115890#Comment_118115890

Who am I missing that's Star Trek related besides the Rock?

TheValeyard

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118101194#Comment_118101194

Totally did it. And threatened a second planet.

Lets not mention what he did to the Romulans.

He also punched Q

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118118571#Comment_118118571

It was pretty poor writing that he was willing to wipe out a while planet over his vendetta with a Maquis general but happily married unrepentant Maquis smuggler Kassidy

His beef with Eddington did involve him betraying Starfleet which she didn't do but I still don't buy it. Also how does someone so sympathetic to the Bajorans hate the Maquis so much

Rawr

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118119077#Comment_118119077

Because he betrayed his uniform!!! (Punches desk)

...but yea, it seemed a bit OTT to be like that to Eddington, especially when he was so mellow to one of his best mates doing the same earlier in the show.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118121483#Comment_118121483

But his bestie didn't trick him by serving under him, with Sisko blind to it.

It was pure ego driven rage

flazio

So did Sisko sow the seeds for The Burn? 🤔😝

Way back to my original point, In Sickbay, McCoy was in charge and Kirk respected that, By TNG onwards it's well established that the Chief Medical Officer overrules the captain on medical ethical issues, even if they're an Emergency hologram. I'm pretty sure this is based on real life military and naval procedures today. So it always bugged me whenever Archer overruled Phlox on certain issues, especially during the Xindi crisis. I mean even in the early lower rank days of Commander Sisko and junior grade Lieutenant Bashir, if Julien says Dax is unfit for an away mission, that's it. She stays in the infirmary. Not like Archer who risked giving Hoshi PTSD by taking her with him to hunt down the sphere against medical advice.

Evade

I think the Hoshi example is textbook desperate times call for desperate measures. How much PTSD would Hoshi have gotten being confined to a bed in sickbay while her planet goes boom?

AMKC

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118125025#Comment_118125025

Yes but Archer was trying to save Earth and the human race and needed Hoshi to do it. Also this was before the federation and maybe they did not have that protocol in place yet

Evade

I threw on the Way of the Warrior, Starship Down, and Rules of Engagement while I was doing something yesterday and today, those are three great episodes. I must have been in a bit of a Worf mood. Circling back to the does the Defiant have windows thing from a few weeks ago when rewatching Starship Down I think the Mess Hall set does have windows but they're covered over like the side windows in the runabout cockpit.

Rawr

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118129368#Comment_118129368

I think the Defiant mess hall had portals, but they were usually sealed. They had done a very good job making the Defiant into a sort of space-submarine where even the crew quarters were essentially the equivalent of the windowless cabin you'd get on the inner deck of a budget car-ferry. Just somewhere to sleep while you weren't on duty. The polar opposite of the luxury cruiseliner that was the Enterprise D.