General Star Trek thread

TheValeyard

Suppose DS9 also had real life family dramas. Whole thing felt more natural.

breezy1985

pixelburp wrote: »

DS9 had the best character writing in Trek, hands down. So its solo adventures were nearly always Trek at its peak; Jake Sisko was a bit of a drip at times, but an infinitely better written and constructed character than Wesley ever was. It was also nice to watch a TV show where its father/teenage-son dynamic wasn't built on conflict or drama; they both loved and supported each other, even if they sometimes had different perspectives on topics.

Brooks was very clear when taking the role that it would be a loving and supportive relationship. Something got to do with not wanting to be like the stereotype black fathers common in TV at the time

Rawr

breezy1985 wrote: »

Brooks was very clear when taking the role that it would be a loving and supportive relationship. Something got to do with not wanting to be like the stereotype black fathers common in TV at the time

And to his credit, the Siskos are probably one of the more believable and heart-warming Father / Son relationships I've seen on television.

Kind of interesting that the most believable family dynamic I've seen on TV kicked off with the mother being killed by Cyborg monsters, peaked with a story about time-travel, and finished with the dad becoming a Space-God....

Makes you think....

AMKC

Rawr wrote: »

DS9.
An elderly Jake Sisko is telling the story of how he spent his life trying to save his father. You'd need a heart of stone not to be moved at least a little by that episode. If you haven't watched it before, do it now. "The Visitor" is DS9, and possibly Trek, at it's very best.

"All good things"part two when they are showing the characters time on the station always moves me but at the same time I think it could have been better like Quarks is terrible.

AMKC

https://www.facebook.com/groups/TrekVerse/permalink/1439829726382968/?sfnsn=mo

Evade

https://www.thetrekcollective.com/2021/06/heritage-auctions-offer-up-stunning.html?m=1

Lots of Star Trek establishing shot matte paintings up for auction soon. I'd love one of these but I doubt they'll be in my price range.

Justin Credible Darts

Evade wrote: »

https://www.thetrekcollective.com/2021/06/heritage-auctions-offer-up-stunning.html?m=1

Lots of Star Trek establishing shot matte paintings up for auction soon. I'd love one of these but I doubt they'll be in my price range.

been using those for a while now for some wallpaper backgrounds


10 of the first 11 images here are those paintings in the backgrounds


https://gazomg-trek-art.blogspot.com/search/label/RANDOM%20%231

Justin Credible Darts

oddly they left out the main Klingon one, plus my favorite of them all the Cardassian one that never appeared on screen

Need a Username

breezy1985 wrote: »

Brooks was very clear when taking the role that it would be a loving and supportive relationship. Something got to do with not wanting to be like the stereotype black fathers common in TV at the time

I didn’t know that.

What other TV shows at the time had this stereotype that he wanted to avoid?

Rawr wrote: »

And to his credit, the Siskos are probably one of the more believable and heart-warming Father / Son relationships I've seen on television.

Kind of interesting that the most believable family dynamic I've seen on TV kicked off with the mother being killed by Cyborg monsters, peaked with a story about time-travel, and finished with the dad becoming a Space-God....

Makes you think....

DS9 is best of the Trek shows after the Original.

Need a Username

I just happened upon a website called Hero Collector.

They are like DeAgostini - monthly magazine with part of a model kit in each or a die cast model. You can build the Doc Brown DeLoren, collect Batman chess pieces, etc.

They have very nice Star Trek die cast ship collections and I nearly subscribed to a few just now. Lucky I checked the FAQ section for that size of the ships and then realised the price of the subscriptions.

Yikes!!!

breezy1985

Need a Username wrote: »

I didn’t know that.

What other TV shows at the time had this stereotype that he wanted to avoid?

.

I don't know I was too young. Drunk, absentee or emotionally unavailable I assume

Need a Username

breezy1985 wrote: »

I don't know I was too young. Drunk, absentee or emotionally unavailable I assume

Too drunk when you read about it to remember or too drunk in the time period when the show was on to remember other shows?

pixelburp

Presumably, it was much like our own stories of yore, where the only "fathers and sons" tales told were those of drunken, abusive fathers within the tragedy of the "Povery Trap".

Evade

I think absenteeism was the main issue he was trying to avoid which is slightly ironic giving the end of DS9.

Need a Username

pixelburp wrote: »

Presumably, it was much like our own stories of yore, where the only "fathers and sons" tales told were those of drunken, abusive fathers within the tragedy of the "Povery Trap".

QUOTE=Evade;117417284]I think absenteeism was the main issue he was trying to avoid which is slightly ironic giving the end of DS9.[/QUOTE]

Those are common enough father types on TV though - for white people too.

I was just curious becasue I cannot recall any shows from the time other than Fresh Prince (was that years before though??) and Uncle Phil was a positive father figure.

pixelburp

That's missing the point: if the only time a demographic appears in a story is for a plot that amounts to "isn't it awful & tragic being X?", it marginalises and stereotypes. It's more pronounced and obvious to demonstrate with gay characters: fadó there were basically two ways gay people were allowed in scripts: either as the sassy, bitchy wingman to a female lead in a comedy, or someone dying of AIDs or suffering for being gay.

Hence why Stamets and Culber were heralded as such important figures: their orientation wasn't part of their being there in the plot. Their tragedy wasn't about whether they were gay. So same with Sisko: he was just a black man in charge, where his race wasn't part of the story (bar I think that one story where he was playing that writer in the past)

Need a Username

pixelburp wrote: »

That's missing the point: if the only time a demographic appears in a story is for a plot that amounts to "isn't it awful & tragic being X?", it marginalises and stereotypes. It's more pronounced and obvious to demonstrate with gay characters: fadó there were basically two ways gay people were allowed in scripts: either as the sassy, bitchy wingman to a female lead in a comedy, or someone dying of AIDs or suffering for being gay.

Hence why Stamets and Culber were heralded as such important figures: their orientation wasn't part of their being there in the plot. Their tragedy wasn't about whether they were gay. So same with Sisko: he was just a black man in charge, where his race wasn't part of the story (bar I think that one story where he was playing that writer in the past)

No I get the point - I was just wanting a reminder of what shows were on at the time that stereotyped black fathers, etc.

That episode was call Far Beyond the Stars I think and was one of the best. There was another episode where race was a part of the story - the episode where the Los Vegas holo program for some reason took on a story that would result in the permanent death of Vic Fontaine. Sisko didn’t know any to participate in it because of the time period.

Yes Staments and Culper’s relationship is not made to stand out for being gay. It is just normal. Funny though that it took Trek that long to bring in such characters - being gay on TV doesn’t even raise wyebrows anymore.

Or does it?

Justin Credible Darts

Need a Username wrote: »

Funny though that it took Trek that long to bring in such characters - being gay on TV doesn’t even raise wyebrows anymore.

Or does it?

In Trek it never mattered,
No one cared if stamets etc were/ are gay.


The issue with some is when it is done for ridiculous woke reasons to a character like seven for example., not sure if its done for simply attention purposes



It would not bother me if she was bisexual but it bugged me that she is now bi when she was clearly cast as straight in her entire time in voyager.

Evade

Need a Username wrote: »

There was another episode where race was a part of the story - the episode where the Los Vegas holo program for some reason took on a story that would result in the permanent death of Vic Fontaine. Sisko didn’t know any to participate in it because of the time period.

I hate that aspect of that episode. Sisko being so bent out of shape for a situation that happened 350+ years before he was born was just bad. The only good thing about it was everyone else pointing out how dumb it was.

Need a Username wrote: »

Yes Staments and Culper’s relationship is not made to stand out for being gay. It is just normal. Funny though that it took Trek that long to bring in such characters - being gay on TV doesn’t even raise wyebrows anymore.

Or does it?

If it's character who happens to be gay, no one really cares. Stamets and Culber are shockingly good examples of this considering how bad the rest of STD is. If it's a character for whom everything revolves around being gay that's just bad and reminds me of something Elton John said about Ellen a few years ago "Shut up already. We know you’re gay. Be funny."

Need a Username

Justin Credible Darts wrote: »

In Trek it never mattered,
No one cared if stamets etc were/ are gay.


The issue with some is when it is done for ridiculous woke reasons to a character like seven for example., not sure if its done for simply attention purposes



It would not bother me if she was bisexual but it bugged me that she is now bi when she was clearly cast as straight in her entire time in voyager.

It has always matter though. They never had a gay character. There was even that fuss that Lt. Hawk was supposed to be as gay in First Contact. The only time Trek ever entered those waters was in DS9 when Dax encountered a former Trill lover who was now a female like her herself. They used the fact that Trill were not supposed to continue passed relationships as being why the kids was taboo.

TNG never did it, nor Voyager or Enterprise.

So in fact Stamets and Culper are a big deal for Trek.

I lost interest in Voyager before the last two seasons. I have no recollection of Seven ever having a sexual or romantic relationship. The Seven I remember didn’t understand emotions, etc and kind of cyborg Spock so the Seven in Picard came as a complete surprise. And I’m no expert in this but if she was previously portray as straight and is now lesbian then isn’t that bisexual?

I have no issue with it but the way they did it was stupid. Just shoved in there at the end when they had every intention of a second season where a relationship could been shown to happen.

AMKC

Need a Username wrote: »

I just happened upon a website called Hero Collector.

They are like DeAgostini - monthly magazine with part of a model kit in each or a die cast model. You can build the Doc Brown DeLoren, collect Batman chess pieces, etc.

They have very nice Star Trek die cast ship collections and I nearly subscribed to a few just now. Lucky I checked the FAQ section for that size of the ships and then realised the price of the subscriptions.

Yikes!!!

That is Eaglemoss who make them Diecast ships. There is big ones and small ones you can buy. They are not cheap but are really well done.
They also do the Delorean and lots of other franchises as well like Battlestar Galactica Batman etc. I wish they would do B5 put I gues

Need a Username

AMKC wrote: »

That is Eaglemoss who make them Diecast ships. There is big ones and small ones you can buy. They are not cheap but are really well done.
They also do the Delorean and lots of other franchises as well like Battlestar Galactica Batman etc. I wish they would do B5 put I gues

Not cheap is right.

One of the Star Trek Universe Collection is $40 each month.

The ships loom lovely.

Babylon 5 would be great.

I found the site because they made a deal with Amazon for the ships from The Expanse.

Justin Credible Darts

Need a Username wrote: »

And I’m no expert in this but if she was previously portray as straight and is now lesbian then isn’t that bisexual?

I have no issue with it but the way they did it was stupid. Just shoved in there at the end when they had every intention of a second season where a relationship could been shown to happen.

I did not use the word lesbian though, I clearly stated bi..


To me its like..."oh wait we have no lgbt character...lets just make seven bi"


Imagine if that was picard they made bi...would be the same stupidity.

nyarlothothep

Working through Enterprise with the emphasis on work. It's really difficult to get through each episode, also dislike the set design, so gray and dark. You'd think they'd make a starship somewhat pleasant to be in given the long journey times and claustrophobia? The season 1 episodes are hokey and the temporal cold war is just a tired idea, time travel + war = good plot? meh. However, sometimes when they have a decent or ridiculous episode, it's watchable, for example Archer, Trip and random dude get attacked by the cum monster, Trip gets pregnant etc. Enterprise makes it really obvious why Battlestar Galactica was so popular in the 00s, it was a breath of fresh air.

AMKC

nyarlothothep wrote: »

Working through Enterprise with the emphasis on work. It's really difficult to get through each episode, also dislike the set design, so gray and dark. You'd think they'd make a starship somewhat pleasant to be in given the long journey times and claustrophobia? The season 1 episodes are hokey and the temporal cold war is just a tired idea, time travel + war = good plot? meh. However, sometimes when they have a decent or ridiculous episode, it's watchable, for example Archer, Trip and random dude get attacked by the cum monster, Trip gets pregnant etc.

Awe it's not that bad. The whole idea for the ship was that was similar to submarine designs of today. This is after all Starfleets first Warp 5 ship.
I much prefer Enterprise anydsy to Discovery. At least Enterprise looks like it belongs in the Star Trek Universe Discovery is just a mish mash of designs and terrible at that. All the familiar elements are in Enterprise like a warp core a bridge nacelles and bussed collectors as well as a deflector and the design is similar but more primitive to what will come after it. Earth was just using the little resources they had to build the ship. They did not yet have unlimited resources like later on when they are in the Federation to build luxury cruisers like the Galaxy class Enterprise.

AMKC

Need a Username wrote: »

Not cheap is right.

One of the Star Trek Universe Collection is $40 each month.

The ships loom lovely.

Babylon 5 would be great.



I found the site because they made a deal with Amazon for the ships from The Expanse.

You can buy ships separately or wait till there is deals on and then buy then. That's all I ever done. I find the site however more awkward ir clumsy to use now than when they started it.

pixelburp

7of9 being Bi doesn't bother me (and if anything a nice change of pace given Bi are kinda the forgotten letter in the acronym); what bothered me was the literal last-minute inclusion of a pairing that hitherto went unshown. But that last episode of Picard was just a big 'aul hot mess top to bottom, wouldn't pick 7of9's sexuality change as especially egregious. Orientation isn't something that always happens in puberty and perhaps as she got more used to the human experience, 7of9 realised her tastes weren't confined to hetero ones. And again, if Picard had bothered showing some evidence of this before the very last scene of episode 10, it wouldn't have caused such whiplash.

Stark

Was she even shown to have actual feelings towards men in "Voyager"? The whole Chakotay thing had all the chemistry of a homework assignment which is probably what is was. "Doctor told me I need to explore human romantic relationships. Chakotay has indicated a willingness to participate. Therefore I will use him to gain this knowledge and experience". I guess in the alternative future they end up married, not sure how valid that is.

Need a Username

Justin Credible Darts wrote: »

I did not use the word lesbian though, I clearly stated bi..


To me its like..."oh wait we have no lgbt character...lets just make seven bi"


Imagine if that was picard they made bi...would be the same stupidity.

My apologies. I have no idea how I made that mistake.

Disregard that part of my post

Need a Username

nyarlothothep wrote: »

Working through Enterprise with the emphasis on work. It's really difficult to get through each episode, also dislike the set design, so gray and dark. You'd think they'd make a starship somewhat pleasant to be in given the long journey times and claustrophobia? The season 1 episodes are hokey and the temporal cold war is just a tired idea, time travel + war = good plot? meh. However, sometimes when they have a decent or ridiculous episode, it's watchable, for example Archer, Trip and random dude get attacked by the cum monster, Trip gets pregnant etc. Enterprise makes it really obvious why Battlestar Galactica was so popular in the 00s, it was a breath of fresh air.

If it is work then it isn’t fun and no point watching.

I have done it myself - been watching a show and the clock then have to ask myself what I am doing.

It was the early days of space travel. I think the ship wasn’t claustrophobic enough.