General Star Trek thread

TheValeyard

AMKC wrote: »

I heard it was Q aka John De Lancie.

Clicked his fingers and two seasons done

Kiith

I still haven't watched Picard. Not sure what is putting me off it. Watched 2 of them, and just wasn't feeling it.

And i really don't like the idea of Q coming back. All Good Things was such a good way to end that ark, and i'm not sure i trust them to not **** it up.

breezy1985

Kiith wrote: »

I still haven't watched Picard. Not sure what is putting me off it. Watched 2 of them, and just wasn't feeling it.

And i really don't like the idea of Q coming back. All Good Things was such a good way to end that ark, and i'm not sure i trust them to not **** it up.

But All Good Things wasn't the end. The trial never ends

Kiith

Yeah i know, but still. I just hope they can do it justice.

_Kaiser_

Kiith wrote: »

Yeah i know, but still. I just hope they can do it justice.

Unfortunately, much like season one, it's likely to leave a sour taste I expect. It's still the same crew behind it as Discovery after all.

I won't be surprised if Q makes him "a real boy" again though.

Evade

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Unfortunately, much like season one, it's likely to leave a sour taste I expect. It's still the same crew behind it as Discovery after all.

I won't be surprised if Q makes him "a real boy" again though.

I read some alleged spoilers that should be taken with a mountain of salt but if true it'll be very bad.

Rawr

I'm living in some hope of Picard Season 2 being at least ok. But that hope is alas quite small.

Much of that hope is based on the slim possibility that they have learned from their mistakes and will try to write a better ending to this season compared to the mess they made of the end of Season 1.

That all said...I thought Season 3 of Discovery was going to be a proper soft-reboot of the series with corrections made to their mistakes. Instead they doubled down on all those mistakes and made the show barely worth watching.

I do also fear that a good season of Picard may be beyond the talents of Secret Hideout....unless maybe CBS is leaning on them to be less crap this time....

breezy1985

I can't wait for months of people who definitely will not like the new season of Picard coming on to forums to tell everyone how they really "hope they do it justice" or whatever.

Evade

breezy1985 wrote: »

I can't wait for months of people who definitely will not like the new season of Picard coming on to forums to tell everyone how they really "hope they do it justice" or whatever.

You know a lot of the people who don't like the current iterations of Star Trek actually do want them to be good right?

Evade

I've been playing along with this for the last few minutes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ko0fKuy8z2U

ilovesmybrick

Evade wrote: »

I've been playing along with this for the last few minutes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ko0fKuy8z2U

That's pretty good. Delighted with myself for knowing almost all the answers, then slightly sad about myself knowing all the answers!

Evade

ilovesmybrick wrote: »

That's pretty good. Delighted with myself for knowing almost all the answers, then slightly sad about myself knowing all the answers!

Same I only missed some TOS and Riker's dad's name.

breezy1985

ilovesmybrick wrote: »

That's pretty good. Delighted with myself for knowing almost all the answers, then slightly sad about myself knowing all the answers!

I was the best of nerds I was the worst of nerds

nyarlothothep

Rawr wrote: »

I'm living in some hope of Picard Season 2 being at least ok. But that hope is alas quite small.

Much of that hope is based on the slim possibility that they have learned from their mistakes and will try to write a better ending to this season compared to the mess they made of the end of Season 1.

That all said...I thought Season 3 of Discovery was going to be a proper soft-reboot of the series with corrections made to their mistakes. Instead they doubled down on all those mistakes and made the show barely worth watching.

I do also fear that a good season of Picard may be beyond the talents of Secret Hideout....unless maybe CBS is leaning on them to be less crap this time....

Not sure about laying the blame on just one person but Alex Kurtzman is apparently responsible for a lot of this hack writing and he's been pretty dismissive of what Trek used to be. I think the only solution would be to replace all the writers with Ronald D Moore, even if he went on another BSG trip with plans that weren't plans, mystical angels and cave people, it would still be better than this desecration of Trek.

DS9 was the way to go printed in bright neon letters. Rewatching it, it accomplishes everything Picard and STD sought to do yet failed. It is dark without being in your face, the characters and world are alive and it doesn't sacrifice these things for the "cool plot with all those twists that I just came up with" which is a staple of modern Hollywood blockbusters. Honestly STD and STP are more akin to Marvel movies in this respect. I only remember Section 31 from STD being a lame, clandestine superhero agency, in DS9 they're like the CIA from the Parallax View, genuinely creepy and downright eerie when compared to the Tal Shiar or Obsidian Order. They show humans up as absolutely the most dangerous and nastiest species in the quadrant. Sloan is like if Anton Chigurh was a spy, he is simply operating on another level. The episode where he uses Bashir to get Koval installed on the Continuing Committee was brilliant for this reason. And from Bashir's perspective it put me in the vibe of "being way in over your head", just like the paranoid, anxiety inducing atmosphere of the Parallax View. Contrast that with STD where it's just crash bang wallop followed by tedious plot exposition. DS9 is high art compared to these shows which pass for Trek.

I notice this with other shows. The Witcher tries to be Game of Thrones but goes immediately for the big set pieces, tedious plot exposition, excessive, shouty drama. Altered Carbon Season 2 failed because the writers disappeared up the proverbial of their own plot exposition at the expense of the characters. Further to that, the casting decisions are getting more and more vanilla. Why is Worf such a great character? Because Michael Dorn is a unique actor, no one will ever be Worf except Dorn. Ditto for Nog. Aron Eisenberg was a phenomenal actor and unconventional and he nailed that role. They need to hire less conventional actors and get strange and/or not quintessentially "Hollywood" people involved, even that would be an improvement; case in point, many a mediocre film was saved by Christopher Walken being Christopher Walken. I think it's not just a problem with Trek as a franchise but an industry wide one which Trek is operating in and has adapted to.

odyssey06

Norman Lloyd has died at the age of 106.

He played Professor Galen in Next Generation episode The Chase.

He is probably best known to television audiences for playing Doctor Daniel Auschlander on the drama series St. Elsewhere from 1982 through 1988.

Rawr

nyarlothothep wrote: »

Not sure about laying the blame on just one person but Alex Kurtzman is apparently responsible for a lot of this hack writing and he's been pretty dismissive of what Trek used to be. I think the only solution would be to replace all the writers with Ronald D Moore, even if he went on another BSG trip with plans that weren't plans, mystical angels and cave people, it would still be better than this desecration of Trek.

Excellent post. I am still operating under the sneaking suspicion that Kurtzman was involved in Lower Decks in name only. Either due to apathy on his part, or orders from CBS. It has all the trappings of a show run by Trek fans, and Kurtzman kind of comes across as a Star Wars "fan" (if at all) who was handed a Sci-fi franchise because someone probably thought "...you know, Star Trek? Star Wars? What's the difference? Make us a space-show Alex."

Part of my hope is that somehow CBS has paid attention to the fan reception to Lower Decks and will make Kurtzman's absence from productions a rule for all of the Trek shows under his name. It might go some way to improve a second season of Picard. But as you wrote, the whole industry at the moment kind of lends itself to the problems of current Trek. There's still talent out there, but it seems to be buried under an awful lot of hacks.

TheValeyard

I think its something a great deal of tv land is suffering from at the moment. They are afraid to take a chance or go down the quirky road. Much more likely to play the diversity game. Quirky characters suit certain roles brilliantly and you cant imagine anyone else playing them that way.
Like Heath Ledgers Joker, or even Peter Falk as Columbo, could not imagine anyone else in that role. And its something we will probably see again in like the 2009 Trek reboot, I felt the new cast did a great job in very well known roles.

H3llR4iser

ilovesmybrick wrote: »

That's pretty good. Delighted with myself for knowing almost all the answers, then slightly sad about myself knowing all the answers!

Yeah I knew about 90-95% of these.

On the other hand, I'm in a Star Trek based gaming organization and sometimes we have "Trivia nights". The lady who prepares the questions is...let's say another level entirely. She manages to find all these trivia facts that NOBODY freaking remembers, but once you hear the answer you go "ahhhh cr@p, yes!" even remembering the specific scene(s).

A Discord full of ST nerds, and there've been nights where 2 or 3 out of 20 questions were answered correctly

breezy1985

Rawr wrote: »

Excellent post. I am still operating under the sneaking suspicion that Kurtzman was involved in Lower Decks in name only. Either due to apathy on his part, or orders from CBS. It has all the trappings of a show run by Trek fans, and Kurtzman kind of comes across as a Star Wars "fan" (if at all) who was handed a Sci-fi franchise because someone probably thought "...you know, Star Trek? Star Wars? What's the difference? Make us a space-show Alex."

Part of my hope is that somehow CBS has paid attention to the fan reception to Lower Decks and will make Kurtzman's absence from productions a rule for all of the Trek shows under his name. It might go some way to improve a second season of Picard. But as you wrote, the whole industry at the moment kind of lends itself to the problems of current Trek. There's still talent out there, but it seems to be buried under an awful lot of hacks.

That's not a sneaking suspicion it's well known he had nothing to do with it other than having his name on it as exec producer of all CBS Trek. Its created by a guy named Mike McMahon who was involved in Rick and Morty.

Kurtzmann is going nowhere sadly as a the shows have been very popular so new Disco was the same as before and new Picard probably won't change much from season 1. Whatever about Disco I have given up there but I was happy with Picard if you just cut the silly big evil robot ending

Need a Username

Rawr wrote: »

Excellent post. I am still operating under the sneaking suspicion that Kurtzman was involved in Lower Decks in name only. Either due to apathy on his part, or orders from CBS. It has all the trappings of a show run by Trek fans, and Kurtzman kind of comes across as a Star Wars "fan" (if at all) who was handed a Sci-fi franchise because someone probably thought "...you know, Star Trek? Star Wars? What's the difference? Make us a space-show Alex."

Part of my hope is that somehow CBS has paid attention to the fan reception to Lower Decks and will make Kurtzman's absence from productions a rule for all of the Trek shows under his name. It might go some way to improve a second season of Picard. But as you wrote, the whole industry at the moment kind of lends itself to the problems of current Trek. There's still talent out there, but it seems to be buried under an awful lot of hacks.

Yes Lower Decks does have have all the signs of being written by fans which is why it is terrible and not funny.

AMKC

Need a Username wrote: »

Yes Lower Decks does have have all the signs of being written by fans which is why it is terrible and not funny.

I disagree. Out of the 3 series that have started over the last few year Lower Decks is my favourite and the most Star Trek. It is the one that has the most respect for the franchise we know and love from TNG, DS9 and Voyager.
Discovery has been a disaster and Picsrd held such promise but then failed to deliver. Hell they could not even at least but them on a proper trek ship. It did not have to be a big ship it could have been on Obert class or a Runabout for all zimI cared as long as it was Trek but what did they do the took a ship from some games franchise and said that will do. Can't think of the games now only ever played the first one and did not get that far in it maybe someone here knows the game. :P

Stark

Well they stole the finale scene from "Mass Effect" I think? (Not much of a gamer so might have the name wrong).

breezy1985

The finale and ship designs both had a Mass Effect feel and even some of the sound effects.

A guy named Eaves does all the ships now and his artistic style is the basis for all the Star Trek Online ships and I think Ent-E which are full of Mass Effect angles and colouring. With the odd exception they look like the kind of "wow cool" crap I would have drawn as a 10yo

Need a Username

AMKC wrote: »

I disagree. Out of the 3 series that have started over the last few year Lower Decks is my favourite and the most Star Trek. It is the one that has the most respect for the franchise we know and love from TNG, DS9 and Voyager.
Discovery has been a disaster and Picsrd held such promise but then failed to deliver. Hell they could not even at least but them on a proper trek ship. It did not have to be a big ship it could have been on Obert class or a Runabout for all zimI cared as long as it was Trek but what did they do the took a ship from some games franchise and said that will do. Can't think of the games now only ever played the first one and did not get that far in it maybe someone here knows the game. :P

Well I also disagree. It is just not funny.

My criticism of the Picard ship is that they never gave us a proper look at it outside and the technology is too advanced - it should be more beat up and used. The Millennium Falcon of Star Trek. Now it has “fix any problem” gadget. Other than that a great Star Trek show and very imaginative to move away fro a Starfleer ship.

Cookie_Monster

Need a Username wrote: »

Well I also disagree. It is just not funny.

My criticism of the Picard ship is that they never gave us a proper look at it outside and the technology is too advanced - it should be more beat up and used. The Millennium Falcon of Star Trek. Now it has “fix any problem” gadget. Other than that a great Star Trek show and very imaginative to move away from a Starfleet ship.

ENT was not a starfleet ship, nor was DS9. Hardly imaginative or original.
why should that ship be anything like the MF of star trek? It's just a random ship that we have no reason to care about, like a shuttle craft or similar.

Picard was not as bad as DIS but I'm also in no hurry to rewatch, it was very poor overall with a total mess of a plot that was all over the place.

And for the record LD is hilarious.

breezy1985

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

ENT was not a starfleet ship, nor was DS9. Hardly imaginative or original.
why should that ship be anything like the MF of star trek? It's just a random ship that we have no reason to care about, like a shuttle craft or similar.

Picard was not as bad as DIS but I'm also in no hurry to rewatch, it was very poor overall with a total mess of a plot that was all over the place.

And for the record LD is hilarious.

Ya on a technicality ENT was not Starfleet because there was no Starfleet yet but everything about it was "Starfleet" on show and in design and production. DS9 the same really


La Sirena crewed by civilians and a few former Starfleet and has no background crew which is a first for Star Trek


And LD is hilarious

pixelburp

Lower Decks' humour was not best in class when it comes to sitcoms, animated or not. I laughed and found it a funny show but a great many jokes also fell flat, or just came off merely OK. And being wrapped up in the Trek mythology, wouldn't be a comedy I'd recommend to everyone.

The character writing was top notch though, and like all good comedies, remembered to inject proper humanity and relatability into its cast. In fact, it's a reasonable comparison to note that both it and Discovery have main characters who are almost impossibly talented (with parents who are big cheese in the Federation); yet Lower Decks had the smarts to make her a rounded character who would fight the expectations of her status through being an intentional fúck-up and waster. None of this "my god it's sooooo emotional" overwrought writing Discovery is trapped into.

The holodeck episode, while a fun bag of easter eggs for those familiar with Trek movies, was - legitimately - some of the best character writing in a Star Trek TV show since the heyday of DS9. Mariner fighting a literal manifestation of a different version of herself was just *chefs kiss*

JayRoc

pixelburp wrote: »

Lower Decks' humour was not best in class when it comes to sitcoms, animated or not. I laughed and found it a funny show but a great many jokes also fell flat, or just came off merely OK. And being wrapped up in the Trek mythology, wouldn't be a comedy I'd recommend to everyone.

The character writing was top notch though, and like all good comedies, remembered to inject proper humanity and reliability into its cast. In fact, it's a reasonable comparison to note that both it and Discovery have main characters who are almost impossibly talented (with parents who are big cheese in the Federation); yet Lower Decks had the smarts to make her a rounded character who would fight the expectations of her status through being an intentional fúck-up and waster. None of this "my god it's sooooo emotional" overwrought writing Discovery is trapped into.

The holodeck episode, while a fun bag of easter eggs for those familiar with Trek movies, was - legitimately - some of the best character writing in a Star Trek TV show since the heyday of DS9. Mariner fighting a literal manifestation of a different version of herself was just *chefs kiss*

Good post.

I agree that while I ended up enjoying LD a lot, I never found it particularly funny, definitely not laugh out loud funny.

But the work they put into the characters, along with the constant gentle, irreverent-but-clearly-coming-from-an-affectionate-place sending up of all the various Star Trek tropes and cliches, made it for me.

Sad Professor

breezy1985 wrote: »

Ya on a technicality ENT was not Starfleet because there was no Starfleet yet but everything about it was "Starfleet" on show and in design and production. DS9 the same really

As I recall, the Ent-nx was a Starfleet but not Federation ship. Starfleet predated the Federation.

Evade

Sad Professor wrote: »

As I recall, the Ent-nx was a Starfleet but not Federation ship. Starfleet predated the Federation.

It was.

It was for too much like a Federation era Starfleet ship for me. Because of that it kind of implies all Federation Starfleet ship designs are mostly derived from human technology as opposed to a big collaborative effort.