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Was the Republican campaign justifiable?

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    #902
    Border-Rat
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 921 ✭✭✭Border-Rat


    Liam Byrne wrote: »
    What "anti-Nationalist" sentiments? The thread is about the IRA terrorism and murder campaign, and the IRA and their apologists don't have a monopoly on nationalism, even though they would like to pretend that they do.

    The detractors of the PIRA don't give a damn, not one iota about Nationalism or the 06 Counties. They do enjoy the pontification side, however. Like I said earlier, they want to point fingers but they don't want responsibility.
    As for the "west Brit" bull**** - well, anyone who resorts to that clichéd crap in order to try to diss differing views ends up basically saying that they don't want their views listened to, because they don't want to even acknowledge that decent people rightly abhor what the IRA stand for.

    Are you saying voters of Sinn Fein are not decent people? Thats a broad swipe at a huge portion of this Country? Or the Republic of Ireland - earned through IRA murder, is that an indecent entity?

    If you feel that strongly about it, how can you live under a State founded by the IRA?


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    #903
    Liam Byrne
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,163 ✭✭✭✭Liam Byrne


    Border-Rat wrote: »

    The detractors of the PIRA don't give a damn, not one iota about Nationalism or the 06 Counties. They do enjoy the pontification side, however. Like I said earlier, they want to point fingers but they don't want responsibility.

    Rubbish. I'm a proud detractor of the murderers, and you have absolutely no right or basis to pretend that I don't give a damn.

    Are you saying voters of Sinn Fein are not decent people? Thats a broad swipe at a huge portion of this Country? Or the Republic of Ireland - earned through IRA murder, is that an indecent entity?

    If you feel that strongly about it, how can you live under a State founded by the IRA?

    So you're allowed broad swipes and I'm not ? Typical blinkered crap from those who refuse to see the wood for the trees.

    Anyone who says that the IRA campaign was justified is condoning the murder of innocents; and since that excludes them from being called "decent" that's hardly my fault.

    I'm not responsible for events of nearly 100 years ago, but if I had been around I would still have objected to murdering innocent people. Do you expect a modern German to condone genocide just because they were born in Germany ? Next you'll be claiming that an American isn't entitled to non-racist views because their country was originally founded on and supported black slavery.

    I have no issues with nationalists.

    I have an issue with the subset of those who support and condone and excuse murder, just as I would have with a subset of ANY grouping who have the same views.

    And since that opinion is based on their mindset, you can't blame me for their choices.


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    #904
    junder
    Registered Users Posts: 2,706 ✭✭✭junder


    steddyeddy wrote: »
    Seanchai wrote: »
    Pathetic loyalist troll is pathetic.

    Its actually hilarious that he missed the point that this would be far more damaging to loylaists than to republicans.

    Only hilarious if I was a supporter of loyalists paramilitary. Personnly I am fully aware that all paramilitary groups are riddled with touts as for the articule I have read it, I thought considering the title of tbe thread it would be an interesting articule to be disscussed, and yes it's an articule not an expression of believe hence the link. Of course you know you have hit a nerve when the best response somebody can come up with it is 'loyalist troll'


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    #905
    junder
    Registered Users Posts: 2,706 ✭✭✭junder


    Border-Rat wrote: »
    Seanchai wrote: »
    Pathetic loyalist troll is pathetic.

    Just a word of warning; the moderators here detest Republicans and/or Nationalists. The likes of Fratton Fred can flame untill the cows come home without reprieve. Anyone aspiring to be a moderator here need not worry about acumen so much as affiliation/stance re: Anglo-American doctine/dogma.

    In short, don't give them an excuse.

    Wow I knew some republicans liked to play to the victim card in northern Ireland but on a Irish site that takes some beating


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    #906
    Border-Rat
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 921 ✭✭✭Border-Rat


    Liam Byrne wrote: »
    Rubbish. I'm a proud detractor of the murderers, and you have absolutely no right or basis to pretend that I don't give a damn.

    Oh, so you do give a damn? What was the best course of action for Catholics during the Pogroms? While you're at it, what should the Catholics of Ardoyne enclaves do if another UVF mob tries to burn them out this summer, then fires bullets at the Chapel they take shelter in?

    We're all ears.

    So you're allowed broad swipes and I'm not ? Typical blinkered crap from those who refuse to see the wood for the trees.

    Anyone who says that the IRA campaign was justified is condoning the murder of innocents; and since that excludes them from being called "decent" that's hardly my fault.

    So the people who gave Sinn Fein a mandate in the North are indecent people? How dare you.
    I'm not responsible for events of nearly 100 years ago, but if I had been around I would still have objected to murdering innocent people. Do you expect a modern German to condone genocide just because they were born in Germany ? Next you'll be claiming that an American isn't entitled to non-racist views because their country was originally founded on and supported black slavery.

    Then I take it you consider Michael Collins and all commemoration of the Irish War of Independence to be 'indecent'? Do you turn the TV off when nostalgic programming occurs?

    You won't be celebrating in 2016, I take it?

    Are you ashamed of your State? Simple answer, no need to be evasive, especially after beating your chest for several pages.
    I have no issues with nationalists.

    Oh, thats quite clear.
    I have an issue with the subset of those who support and condone and excuse murder, just as I would have with a subset of ANY grouping who have the same views.

    And since that opinion is based on their mindset, you can't blame me for their choices.

    Are Sinn Fein voters proponents of murder? You're bordering legal terroritory with your esteem-driven bile, buddy.


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    #907
    steddyeddy
    Registered Users Posts: 27,564 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    junder wrote: »
    Only hilarious if I was a supporter of loyalists paramilitary. Personnly I am fully aware that all paramilitary groups are riddled with touts as for the articule I have read it, I thought considering the title of tbe thread it would be an interesting articule to be disscussed, and yes it's an articule not an expression of believe hence the link. Of course you know you have hit a nerve when the best response somebody can come up with it is 'loyalist troll'

    To be honest I dont even think thats trolling. Your basically putting up something on christmas day which claims that the ira were in part British.

    Yes I know its a link and not your own words so ill comment on the part that is in your words.
    The ira, just another wing of British intelligence?

    Right lets go through your question. Basically the british were compliant in bombing their own cities in the uk and on the British mainland. They executed several loyalists and those suspected of aiding the british.

    The only reason I can think that the british would do this is that they wanted to remove northern ireland from the uk and what better way to do it than under the guise of republican terrorists.


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    #908
    Border-Rat
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 921 ✭✭✭Border-Rat


    junder wrote: »
    Wow I knew some republicans liked to play to the victim card in northern Ireland but on a Irish site that takes some beating

    There's no victimised mindset here. As I have said, Sinn Fein is now the second most popular party in Ireland. The people in this thread and their opinions are not reflective, thankfully of the people at large. If you really want to discuss unstable mentality, just google the words 'Unionist Fury'.


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    #909
    Liam Byrne
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,163 ✭✭✭✭Liam Byrne


    Border-Rat wrote: »

    So the people who gave Sinn Fein a mandate in the North are indecent people? How dare you.

    Why are you paraphrasing? I said that anyone who condones or excuses murder isn't decent. I don't care whether they are so-called nationalists, loyalists or any common thugs.

    If they don't condone or excuse murder then I have no logical reason to call them indecent.

    Do you think that those who murder innocents are decent?
    Then I take it you consider Michael Collins and all commemoration of the Irish War of Independence to be 'indecent'? Do you turn the TV off when nostalgic programming occurs?

    Asking lots of questions before answering any.
    You won't be celebrating in 2016, I take it?

    I won't, but not for any reason you're trying to imply. I won't celebrate a corrupt, greedy, backward, unethical and nudge-wink so-called "republic" in which incompetence and greed and excuses are rewarded.

    I have an issue with the subset of those who support and condone and excuse murder, just as I would have with a subset of ANY grouping who have the same views.

    And since that opinion is based on their mindset, you can't blame me for their choices.
    Are Sinn Fein voters proponents of murder? You're bordering legal terroritory with your esteem-driven bile, buddy.

    They are if they condone and excuse it. I don't know how stating that fact is "bordering legal territory"

    Don't know what "esteem-driven" is meant to mean, but anyone who condones murder has earned bile.


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    #910
    junder
    Registered Users Posts: 2,706 ✭✭✭junder


    Border-Rat wrote: »
    junder wrote: »
    Wow I knew some republicans liked to play to the victim card in northern Ireland but on a Irish site that takes some beating

    There's no victimised mindset here. As I have said, Sinn Fein is now the second most popular party in Ireland. The people in this thread and their opinions are not reflective, thankfully of the people at large. If you really want to discuss unstable mentality, just google the words 'Unionist Fury'.


    If sinn fein are so strong and apparently the second largest party, why the whines of bias from the moderators on this site?


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    #911
    Richard
    Registered Users Posts: 2,439 ✭✭✭Richard


    Border-Rat wrote: »
    There's no victimised mindset here. As I have said, Sinn Fein is now the second most popular party in Ireland. The people in this thread and their opinions are not reflective, thankfully of the people at large.
    Some of the people on this thread are reflective of Ireland at large, some aren't. Thankfully the moderate view seems to be prevailing.
    If you really want to discuss unstable mentality, just google the words 'Unionist Fury'.

    Some unionists get angry? Who knew?


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    #912
    Fratton Fred
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,567 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    Border-Rat wrote: »
    Just a word of warning; the moderators here detest Republicans and/or Nationalists. The likes of Fratton Fred can flame untill the cows come home without reprieve. Anyone aspiring to be a moderator here need not worry about acumen so much as affiliation/stance re: Anglo-American doctine/dogma.

    In short, don't give them an excuse.

    Aah, poor old Border Rat, the whole world is out to get you because they don't agree with the hate filled crap you come out with.


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    #913
    KeithAFC
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,239 ✭✭✭✭KeithAFC


    Richard wrote: »
    Some of the people on this thread are reflective of Ireland at large, some aren't. Thankfully the moderate view seems to be prevailing.



    Some unionists get angry? Who knew?
    They speak of Unionist fury. I can speak of Republican aggression. Same thing. Don't let that get in the way of some PUL bashing though.


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    #914
    steddyeddy
    Registered Users Posts: 27,564 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    KeithAFC wrote: »
    They speak of Unionist fury. I can speak of Republican aggression. Same thing. Don't let that get in the way of some PUL bashing though.

    Keith blame the english according to junder theres no such thing as republican aggression. Its really a front for the British secret service.


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    #915
    KeithAFC
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,239 ✭✭✭✭KeithAFC


    steddyeddy wrote: »
    Keith blame the english according to junder theres no such thing as republican aggression. Its really a front for the British secret service.
    No. Junder linked that some IRA men had links to the British secret service. Which is true. A lot of that involved spying on key IRA men. Like Martin Mcguinness who was an agent later in the troubles.


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    #916
    junder
    Registered Users Posts: 2,706 ✭✭✭junder


    steddyeddy wrote: »
    KeithAFC wrote: »
    They speak of Unionist fury. I can speak of Republican aggression. Same thing. Don't let that get in the way of some PUL bashing though.

    Keith blame the english according to junder theres no such thing as republican aggression. Its really a front for the British secret service.

    You mean according to a newspaper of which I am not the author


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    #917
    steddyeddy
    Registered Users Posts: 27,564 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    junder wrote: »
    You mean according to a newspaper of which I am not the author

    No but you asked the question
    The ira, just another wing of British intelligence?


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    #918
    steddyeddy
    Registered Users Posts: 27,564 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    KeithAFC wrote: »
    No. Junder linked that some IRA men had links to the British secret service. Which is true. A lot of that involved spying on key IRA men. Like Martin Mcguinness who was an agent later in the troubles.

    Then instead of thinking of catholics as the enemy why not send letters to the british government asking why did they not do more to stop the bombings? Would you not be annoyed at this?


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    #919
    junder
    Registered Users Posts: 2,706 ✭✭✭junder


    steddyeddy wrote: »
    junder wrote: »
    You mean according to a newspaper of which I am not the author

    No but you asked the question
    The ira, just another wing of British intelligence?


    Yes a question (admittedly a bit of a Tongue in cheek one) not a statement of beilef, hence the question mark


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    #920
    KeithAFC
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,239 ✭✭✭✭KeithAFC


    steddyeddy wrote: »
    Then instead of thinking of catholics as the enemy why not send letters to the british government asking why did they not do more to stop the bombings? Would you not be annoyed at this?
    There was obvious communication with the IRA in the later years of the troubles. But the same could be said for Loyalists. The Republican aggressors still had people who refused to talk to the British government and that is why attacks still happened.


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    #921
    junder
    Registered Users Posts: 2,706 ✭✭✭junder


    steddyeddy wrote: »
    KeithAFC wrote: »
    No. Junder linked that some IRA men had links to the British secret service. Which is true. A lot of that involved spying on key IRA men. Like Martin Mcguinness who was an agent later in the troubles.

    Then instead of thinking of catholics as the enemy why not send letters to the british government asking why did they not do more to stop the bombings? Would you not be annoyed at this?

    Ironically since you only ask the question in an attempt to get a rise, it is actully quote a very relevent question. Did the British government allow some bombing from the ira to go ahead just to protect a high ranking informer within it's ranks. How many people did scap finger as an informer to protect is own role as head of the nutting squad


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    #922
    Dr Galen
    Registered Users Posts: 7,373 ✭✭✭Dr Galen


    Border-Rat wrote: »
    Just a word of warning; the moderators here detest Republicans and/or Nationalists. The likes of Fratton Fred can flame untill the cows come home without reprieve. Anyone aspiring to be a moderator here need not worry about acumen so much as affiliation/stance re: Anglo-American doctine/dogma.

    In short, don't give them an excuse.

    This thread is not the place to be bring up any perceived grievances with the Moderation of this forum. There are places that you can do that though. This is something that you know well.

    Any more of this nonsense and you'll be taking a break from the forum.

    @everyone else

    Up til recently, this was an alright thread, but it appears it's on the slide. Instead of the usual practice of just locking it and letting the cycle start again, things may well be different this time, i.e. I'm just going to ban anyone who acts the maggot and leave those who can discuss and debate like adults to do so.

    Don't say you haven't been warned :)

    Ho Ho Ho

    DrG


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    #923
    steddyeddy
    Registered Users Posts: 27,564 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    junder wrote: »
    Yes a question (admittedly a bit of a Tongue in cheek one) not a statement of beilef, hence the question mark

    Fair enough my opinion on the article is it either changes the political situation in the north entirely, the british could have prevented more bombings or the article is up there with articles on roswell.


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    #924
    steddyeddy
    Registered Users Posts: 27,564 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    junder wrote: »
    Ironically since you only ask the question in an attempt to get a rise, it is actully quote a very relevent question. Did the British government allow some bombing from the ira to go ahead just to protect a high ranking informer within it's ranks. How many people did scap finger as an informer to protect is own role as head of the nutting squad

    Not attempting to get a rise from anyone im simply pointing out the implications of the artcle which I beleive is nonsense. Regarding the british government allowing the bombing to go ahead even on the british mainland I really find it hard to beleive.


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    #925
    junder
    Registered Users Posts: 2,706 ✭✭✭junder


    steddyeddy wrote: »
    junder wrote: »
    Ironically since you only ask the question in an attempt to get a rise, it is actully quote a very relevent question. Did the British government allow some bombing from the ira to go ahead just to protect a high ranking informer within it's ranks. How many people did scap finger as an informer to protect is own role as head of the nutting squad

    Not attempting to get a rise from anyone im simply pointing out the implications of the artcle which I beleive is nonsense. Regarding the british government allowing the bombing to go ahead even on the british mainland I really find it hard to beleive.


    I believe that in the ' real politik' anything is possible


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    #926
    steddyeddy
    Registered Users Posts: 27,564 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    junder wrote: »
    I believe that in the ' real politik' anything is possible

    Ah it doesnt matter at this stage Junder Happy christmas anyway.


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    #927
    junder
    Registered Users Posts: 2,706 ✭✭✭junder


    steddyeddy wrote: »
    junder wrote: »
    I believe that in the ' real politik' anything is possible

    Ah it doesnt matter at this stage Junder Happy christmas anyway.
    Happy Christmas and a peaceful, productive and above all safe new year to you to


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    #928
    Sunnyisland
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,562 ✭✭✭✭Sunnyisland


    It was a dirty terrible war/conflict and it will be years before the full truth shall come out from all sides.


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    #929
    Sunnyisland
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,562 ✭✭✭✭Sunnyisland


    On a slightly different note,Nuala O'Loan Northern Ireland's first police ombudsman has called for a single unified body to deal with all the unsolved crimes of the Troubles and arrest suspects even in cases that are decades old.O'Loan said dealing properly with Northern Ireland's recent violent past would undermine the justification for the armed campaigns by the Real IRA and other dissident terror groups.

    http://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=northen%20irelands%20ivistagatied%20o%20loan&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CEQQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.guardian.co.uk%2Fuk%2F2011%2Fdec%2F26%2Fnorthern-ireland-police-ombudsman1&ei=wKz5Tu_aBYKJhQfY6IykCA&usg=AFQjCNGVddZA_oXPhpUi_GxWE6wcGNIfjA


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    #930
    Noreen1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,654 ✭✭✭Noreen1


    realies wrote: »
    On a slightly different note,Nuala O'Loan Northern Ireland's first police ombudsman has called for a single unified body to deal with all the unsolved crimes of the Troubles and arrest suspects even in cases that are decades old.O'Loan said dealing properly with Northern Ireland's recent violent past would undermine the justification for the armed campaigns by the Real IRA and other dissident terror groups.

    http://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=northen%20irelands%20ivistagatied%20o%20loan&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CEQQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.guardian.co.uk%2Fuk%2F2011%2Fdec%2F26%2Fnorthern-ireland-police-ombudsman1&ei=wKz5Tu_aBYKJhQfY6IykCA&usg=AFQjCNGVddZA_oXPhpUi_GxWE6wcGNIfjA

    I think it's an excellent idea.

    People who have been hurt through the loss of a loved one, or through personal injury of any kind, are not going to find any peace unless there is justice.

    A truly independent (ie: Neither Irish nor British) body, who could investigate crimes impartially, and administer justice, would go some towards bringing true peace.

    There will always be some victims who will never see justice, unfortunately, but at least whatever can be done would be seen to be done, and help prevent bitterness being inflicted on another generation.

    That's the hope. The reality will probably be either outright prevention of her idea, or a desperate scramble by vested interests to ensure "representation" in such a body - thus rendering it useless.:(


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    #931
    KeithAFC
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,239 ✭✭✭✭KeithAFC


    If it was a war according to Republicans, then why is there a need for justice? Surely these things just happen in a war?


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