Phoenix - Enemy at the Gate! (News & Star)

Sully

fuzzy dunlop wrote: »

It was the apolitical that voted for Cullen for the last decade and jumped ship to FG and specifically Coffey when Cullen was gone. It is only swing voters that jump this sort of political divide, which was done in the eighties. So the fact is we have already repeated one part of history politically. There is no reason we cannot do it for the 97- 2007 period as far as cabinet representation is concerned. You have a vested interest in poo pooing the idea. But this is essentially the strategy Dublin SE follows which has had cabinet representation continuously since the foundation of the state practically.

Cullen was a Fianna Fail candidate for pretty much all of his career. His stint as a PD was short, and he joined Fianna Fail after disillusioned with the new party leader, Mary Harney, after being told he wasn't allowed run for Europe. You may recall that he lost his seat in his early career. Hardly an apolitical vote. It was a Fianna Fail vote.

Well you need to check your posts again regarding the General election. You previously stated that most people within FG would have assumed Waterford would have received a cabinet position of some sort. Now this has turned into “would have been surprising”. This is the problem with being part of a political machine Sully. Back peddling like this highlights your lack of credibility. Now you can say you didn’t exactly say this that or the other all you want by the fact is you were flying this flag on this board on behalf of FG. If you can’t find it check my posts and you will find it in your replies to mine. As for experience Paudie has none that a city councillor hasn’t got. Don’t think about saying the Senate as these appointments are only about tricking the electorate into thinking that these guys are going somewhere.

I did, but there were a lot. Your recollection on what I said changes in each post also, so its hard to know what I actually said bar what I believed at the time and now. My belief I explained in earlier posts. If I said otherwise, than it was an error on my part as from what I recall at the time, and from reading many of my posts, I gave no assurances or guarantees.

So tell me again how this government is moving away from Parish pump politics? Barely six months old and this government has confirmed our worst fears and you’re making excuses for Phil Hogan! If all things been equal and my assertions are simply parochial rants then this does not change the situation. It still means Coffey and the political machine you are party to have a moral obligation to its constituents, which it is currently failing to uphold. It is also failing to resist the ongoing stroke politics in the neighbouring counties. But the fact is my assertions have the backing of two independent spatial plans, the writings of economists, historians and planners going back forty years or more. This is the elephant in the room for you. One you or your party cannot ignore.

Indeed its not and I think its obvious, even here in Waterford on the council, that parish pump politics are still a big thing. I don't like it. I felt that the VEC movement was parish pump and I can see that Phil Hogan looks after his constituency also. Just like Cullen did, when Minister. I don't support it, which is why I commented as such on your own posts.

Deasy has made quite an impact. He has embarrassed FG more than once. The only reason he hasn’t done more damage is because he did most of it when FG were in opposition. Deasy also never resigned the whip so it is not proof that this strategy would not work.

What impact has the embarrassment done? Genuinely, I fail to see how Waterford has benefited from the actions of Deasy.

Also Coffey doesn’t have to resign the whip. A public statement condemning the practices of Howlin and Hogan followed by statement of intent if it continued. Nevertheless the government majority is large but not so large they can afford the rate of ongoing attrition especially when it looks like the voters are starting to see Labour as the FG mudguard. If Labour get jittery they might see their prospects being better as leader of the opposition. This would mean FG needing a bust of Independents or a General Election.

He did. He is even quoted as accusing Howlin as such.

https://www.facebook.com/notes/paudie-coffey-td/coffey-critical-of-decision-to-locate-new-vec-hq-in-wexford/174676779282143

You’re not looking at facts. You’re looking at the present situation and speculating it will be like this long term. If there was an election tomorrow it is almost guaranteed that the government would have a tiny majority or would need independents.

Hard to call tbh. I assume your basing this on previous elections, and with harsh budget cuts? The last poll puts Fine Gael fairly steady and its going by polls that I am reading the situation. Id prefer to see something better than RedC of course, and then one after this week with the budget cuts coming into force. I think that gives us a bigger picture. With Labour dropping support, it may very well be a FG and Independent think tank (which I would prefer). But we don't have anyone in Waterford, at the moment anyway, to step up and be counted for especially ahead of Coffey and Deasy (if they are re elected).

This situation is only going to get worse. Both parties only have to lose six seats each to lose their majority. What you’re suggesting is Paudie be a good boy on the off chance that he be rewarded for not rocking the boat. You need an unprecedented level of stability for this to work. We don’t have this. If FG or any other party want to achieve/retain power they have to behave impeccably themselves and not lose seats. An impossible task which their already failing to do. There is no way a majority will be formed without Independents. Plus the fact that they have not even passed one Austerity budget never mind four means political flux is the name of the game for the next 10 years. By the time Paudie ever gets near a junior ministry FG will be on the other side of the house maybe for another generation. Any future government will have to shore up dissent within their own parties or else hoover up some Independents. If we keep voting for Coffey and Conway even after the failed to protect their constituents then we are just another three safe seats for the government. If we don’t then the realisation will be that this seats have to be maintained starting by telling Hogan and Howlin to cop the f*ck on and stop behaving like FF. Coffey and Conway have to take advantage of this fact which they so far have failed to do.

Again, tough call. I see your point and time will tell. Lets see how the landscape is in a few months.

fuzzy dunlop

Sully wrote: »

Cullen was a Fianna Fail candidate for pretty much all of his career. His stint as a PD was short, and he joined Fianna Fail after disillusioned with the new party leader, Mary Harney, after being told he wasn't allowed run for Europe. You may recall that he lost his seat in his early career. Hardly an apolitical vote. It was a Fianna Fail vote. .

It doesn’t matter what party Cullen was. What matters is what party his constituency was and that was the swing voters. It certainly wasn’t a Fianna Fail vote. Cullen brought the vote to FF via the PD’s from FG after a period politically speaking very similar to the present. This is the point. This is the vote that elected Coffey and it is the vote that will abandon Coffey just as easy.

Sully wrote: »

I did, but there were a lot. Your recollection on what I said changes in each post also, so its hard to know what I actually said bar what I believed at the time and now. My belief I explained in earlier posts. If I said otherwise, than it was an error on my part as from what I recall at the time, and from reading many of my posts, I gave no assurances or guarantees. .

All the back peddling in the world won’t change facts. And the fact is you were doing your best persuade people that Coffrey was heading for the cabinet. You might have been using the FG newspeak that could make it deniable but your intentions were unmistakable.

Sully wrote: »

Indeed its not and I think its obvious, even here in Waterford on the council, that parish pump politics are still a big thing. I don't like it. I felt that the VEC movement was parish pump and I can see that Phil Hogan looks after his constituency also. Just like Cullen did, when Minister. I don't support it, which is why I commented as such on your own posts.

I see your ignoring the spatial data again and trying to equate Cullen with Hogan. Cullen had some justification. Hogan has none and your platitudes don’t matter a dime.

Sully wrote: »

What impact has the embarrassment done? Genuinely, I fail to see how Waterford has benefited from the actions of Deasy.

Well for a start he highlighted how useless and impotent Coffey is and how FG are just the other cheek of the same arse.

Sully wrote: »

He did. He is even quoted as accusing Howlin as such.
https://www.facebook.com/notes/paudie-coffey-td/coffey-critical-of-decision-to-locate-new-vec-hq-in-wexford/174676779282143

Great preaching to his own Fan Club

Sully wrote: »

Hard to call tbh. I assume your basing this on previous elections, and with harsh budget cuts? The last poll puts Fine Gael fairly steady and its going by polls that I am reading the situation. Id prefer to see something better than RedC of course, and then one after this week with the budget cuts coming into force. I think that gives us a bigger picture. With Labour dropping support, it may very well be a FG and Independent think tank (which I would prefer). But we don't have anyone in Waterford, at the moment anyway, to step up and be counted for especially ahead of Coffey and Deasy (if they are re elected).

Lol! Minimise this all you want. But Fine Gael haven’t really done anything that effects the punter good bad or indifferent. It’s Labour are the weak link and already they are suffering negatively. All that has to happen is Labour decides to up sticks. BTW FG take Red C as seriously as the Gospel. How do you know we don’t have anyone in Waterford? Practically anyone is better than Coffey and Conways dismal performance. Most backbenchers are doing their best to raise their profile while Coffey is dilly dallying on Facebook and Twitter like some spotty student. He’s in the big league now not some Young FG student Cumman.

Sully wrote: »

Again, tough call. I see your point and time will tell. Lets see how the landscape is in a few months.

Yeah Let’s.