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Phoenix - Enemy at the Gate! (News & Star)
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The bridge itself cost around €35m, the whole bypass cost around €225m, and most of this was financed by the private sector not the taxpayerI agree the old n9 was a disgrace. But it seems to me that most people seem to think the M9 makes getting to work in Dublin easier.
I do not know if the FDI people rank motorway access to Dublin as a reason for investing in Waterford. They invested before the motorway was built they have not since ( although there has been some in Genzyme since it was sold but I dont know if the motorway was the clincher!)
My main truck was not against the motorway, although I would argue the coastal route would serve us better, but against the bridge that cost hundreds of millions.0 -
My main truck was not against the motorway, although I would argue the coastal route would serve us better, but against the bridge that cost hundreds of millions.
How exactly? Longer distance to Dublin (164.3km via new M9 vs. 185.4km via Enniscorthy), serving just a few counties and no connection to the midlands or the mid-east region
. And if/when the Leinster Orbital route is ever built around n leinster, no connection to that.
The toll is the main issue and it's positioning on the Waterford bypass. It was still badly needed.0 -
The bridge itself cost around €35m, the whole bypass cost around €225m, and most of this was financed by the private sector not the taxpayer
Unfortunatly it is was funded by a public private partnership and i am not sure that the private sector provided most of the finance.
If it is not used the taxpayer pays , if it is used by the people of Waterford then they pay.
Either way we have to pay for it.
http://www.waterford-news.ie/news/mhojidgboj/
40,000 use the Rice bridge a day. 5000 use the N25.0 -
40,000 use the Rice bridge a day. 5000 use the N25.
Yeah, a ridiculous state of affairs. IMO it would make sense to introduce some sort of shadow toll at this stage, so that the government would just measure the amount of traffic on the bridge and pay the tolls based on those numbers.
It's clear the toll is a major disincentive to people to use the bridge. €10 million a year would pay the shadow tolls for 15-20,000 vehicles a day, which I reckon would use the new bridge if it was toll-free.
Surely a price worth paying for lessening the congestion in the city centre? Shur and we paid 750 million there a few weeks ago to gamblers who bought bonds from a dodgy bank that's being wound down, and we're going to pay another billion or so in January. What the hell are we paying our taxes for, if not for improving the quality of life of our city?0 -
We're paying taxes so that they can be spent to shore up the local economies of Dublin, Cork, Wexford, Kilkenny.... etc. etc.
We are not on that list, and our TDs know well we're not.0 -
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It was never said by any of the canvass team that I met that Paudie was guaranteed a position. There were no assurances, but weighing it all up many people (not canvassers, but electorate) considered Paudie had a much better shot at it than anybody else. Waterford has a higher chance of getting a FG Ministry (probably Junior at the start) with Paudie and maybe with a new leader, John Deasy. There is nobody else that would come close to be given such a position in Waterford, unelected or elected.
It was inferred by you on this site that Paudie had more than a fighting chance of a position.I said he had no chance. I was right you were wrong.This is the undeniable fact. Paudie might have the best chance of a position in the future but this does not mean he has a worthwhile chance.It is just relative to the other pygmies. Someone else can and should be found to represent Waterford that will actually represent us. An independent is our best bet at this stage.John Deasy was our best bet and should be but that's well out the window now in my opinion but I would hazard a guess and say Smiley will disagree!!
John Deasy is still the Fine Gael talisman in Waterford. Paudie is not.Within Waterford the core Fine Gael vote is for Deasy that is the elephant in the room for Paudie Coffey.I personally think only a candidate who is around long enough in Politics will be given a ministerial position. Waterford had people such as O'Shea and Cullen who are now retired leaving a new wave of politicians. Just because we are Waterford and a City does not mean we deserve a cabinet position, its just not how it works. So refusing to vote in a candidate unless they are set wont make a difference. "Leightweights" - what do you expect from backbenchers?! Welcome to the Irish political system. Unless your a Minister, your pretty much worthless. Just gotta use your time well, get as much speaking time, get your point across and get on committees.
We can't wait for Paudie Coffey to serve his time and be given a ministerial position in 2030 if it even happens at all. We need a plan the will deliver within a decade and the best chance to do this is to lance the boil of 2.5 party politics once and for all in Waterford. This is how we ended up with Cullen in a cabinet position for ten years. As for Brian O'Shea he was no comparison to Cullen as he simply acheived nothing worth talking about. As Coffey is doing now. Coffey could do something worthwhile like resigning the whip or at least threatening it in protest of the VEC fiasco. FG desreve nothing in Waterford and they have a record of doubls speak with regard to commitments going back decades which you yourself indulged in here prior to the election. The only way to ensure Waterford is looked after is to put forward a strong independent canditate who could be potentially poached like Cullen was or might find himself in a kingmaker position like Gregory did in the eigties. It's all abot mathematics and Coffey and Conway are to far down the ladder and unknown nationally.0 -
Phoenix was a cheerleader for the last Government and he's giving out about the things Howlin and Hogan are doing for the counties they represent but was praising Cullen for doing the same things when it was Waterford.
Phoenix has plenty of criticism for Fine Fáil.And to be fair to Cullen he made sure Kilkenny and Wexford stayed were not left out for capital spending on roads or projects like decentralisation.The same could not be said for Hogan or Howlin who seem to exist to ensure that Wateford doesn't benefit from anything that can't be justified for their own counties.0 -
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fuzzy dunlop wrote: »It was inferred by you on this site that Paudie had more than a fighting chance of a position.I said he had no chance. I was right you were wrong.This is the undeniable fact. Paudie might have the best chance of a position in the future but this does not mean he has a worthwhile chance.It is just relative to the other pygmies. Someone else can and should be found to represent Waterford that will actually represent us. An independent is our best bet at this stage.
What you are saying above is completely different than what you were saying in your earlier post. I stand over what I said, both then and now. Paudie had and still has a much better and fighting chance of a position than any of the other candidates elected in Waterford.
Jesus, Ciara Conway has more of a chance than an Independent (nothing against her either, its just because she is new on the politics block). Your basing your theory on the Fianna Fail/Green government where Independents were crucial (not given a Ministerial position either) because the numbers were much tighter. This government has a nice majority even with three drop outs so they don't need any help from Independents.John Deasy is still the Fine Gael talisman in Waterford. Paudie is not.Within Waterford the core Fine Gael vote is for Deasy that is the elephant in the room for Paudie Coffey.
Wasn't a massive gap in their votes ya know, which many expected there would be. I am not saying John is worthless or irrelevant in Waterford politics either. With his relationship with Enda Kenny, I just cant see him getting the position and this is felt by a lot of people.We can't wait for Paudie Coffey to serve his time and be given a ministerial position in 2030 if it even happens at all. We need a plan the will deliver within a decade and the best chance to do this is to lance the boil of 2.5 party politics once and for all in Waterford. This is how we ended up with Cullen in a cabinet position for ten years. As for Brian O'Shea he was no comparison to Cullen as he simply acheived nothing worth talking about. As Coffey is doing now. Coffey could do something worthwhile like resigning the whip or at least threatening it in protest of the VEC fiasco. FG desreve nothing in Waterford and they have a record of doubls speak with regard to commitments going back decades which you yourself indulged in here prior to the election. The only way to ensure Waterford is looked after is to put forward a strong independent canditate who could be potentially poached like Cullen was or might find himself in a kingmaker position like Gregory did in the eigties. It's all abot mathematics and Coffey and Conway are to far down the ladder and unknown nationally.
Crazy talk, really is. People are trying to move away from local politics in the Dail. Resigning the whip in protest has made **** all of a difference to-date and you think advising any of our TDs to do the same is a good idea?! It puts us further on the back benches and reduces our chances of a Ministerial Position. John Deasy is the perfect example of the Waterford rebel. Voted in each time, topping the poll. Sits in the back complaining. Went out and bashed Kenny. Where is he since the election? Still on the back benches. He was someone who should be given a Ministerial position, being in Politics a long time and his father before him. I think we would all agree he probably would be, but clearly is way down on the pecking order. Its odd that you don't seem to even comment on this.
When Penrose quit over the barracks issue, a lot of people didn't support his move because he quit over local politics. What has he achieved since quitting in his constituency? Nothing. The barracks is still closed and the government went on as normal. When FGs Denis Naughten lost the whip over the Roscommon Hospital closure, there was no U Turn or "Here, come back and we will sort ya out with a Ministerial position and open the Hospital again". The government carried on as normal. Likewise, when Broughan quit nothing changed (yet anyway). Why do you think Paudie quitting would make the blindest bit of a difference?
As you said, you cant wait till 2030. Who says that in the next 20 years we will get a strong Independent up there with the current political climate, hence not needing Coffey? The next election isn't for a few years yet and by the looks of things the climate wont change much.0 -
If you go on population , Waterford had done very well over the last few years.
There was an element of " cute hoorism" . But other counties benefited (cf Kilkenny andM9)
Now the other counties in the southeast are doing better relative to previous.
Many people from Waterford work in other counties in the south east . Many from other counties work in Waterford .
Parts of Kilkenny are surburban Waterford.
The idea of kilkenny getting this or Wexford getting that is just small-mindedness , that seems to be endemic in this city.
You don't see cork people giving out because Tralee is getting a new A&E0 -
If you go on population , Waterford had done very well over the last few years.
There was an element of " cute hoorism" . But other counties benefited (cf Kilkenny andM9)
Now the other counties in the southeast are doing better relative to previous.
Many people from Waterford work in other counties in the south east . Many from other counties work in Waterford .
Parts of Kilkenny are surburban Waterford.
The idea of kilkenny getting this or Wexford getting that is just small-mindedness , that seems to be endemic in this city.
You don't see cork people giving out because Tralee is getting a new A&E
Done well with/from what exactly ?0 -
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fuzzy dunlop wrote: »Phoenix has plenty of criticism for Fine Fáil.And to be fair to Cullen he made sure Kilkenny and Wexford stayed were not left out for capital spending on roads or projects like decentralisation.The same could not be said for Hogan or Howlin who seem to exist to ensure that Wateford doesn't benefit from anything that can't be justified for their own counties.
It seems to me that Waterford people would rather Cork or Kerry benefits rather than Wexford or Kilkenny.
:rolleyes:0 -
Thats ridiculous, i dont think anybody thinks like that except maybe some rural GAA red-neck, we would all love to see some major jobs happening in Waterford mainly, if not there, somewhere handy where we can get to easily0
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What you are saying above is completely different than what you were saying in your earlier post. I stand over what I said, both then and now. Paudie had and still has a much better and fighting chance of a position than any of the other candidates elected in Waterford. .
You claimed previously that you had assurances that Paudie had a good chance of a ministerial position. This has transpired to be Bullsh!t. What your claiming is pure fantasy. We the electorate do not have to adhere to the FG practice of serving your time on the backbenches. There is just too many people ahead of Paudie in the queue in FG alone. It is impossibility when Labour is included. This is a fact that an apolitical person cannot escape from.Jesus, Ciara Conway has more of a chance than an Independent (nothing against her either, its just because she is new on the politics block). Your basing your theory on the Fianna Fail/Green government where Independents were crucial (not given a Ministerial position either) because the numbers were much tighter. This government has a nice majority even with three drop outs so they don't need any help from Independents. .
I like the way you refer to Ciara Conway as if Paudie was some sort of giant compared to her. He isn’t. In fact she is more successful at making herself known nationally than Paudie has been. Paudie is an unknown outside Waterford never mind the South East. The government will not retain the majority they have by the next election with four Austerity budgets to make. This election result is a historical once off. We will be back to depending on Independents to form a government within five years at the most.Wasn't a massive gap in their votes ya know, which many expected there would be. I am not saying John is worthless or irrelevant in Waterford politics either. With his relationship with Enda Kenny, I just cant see him getting the position and this is felt by a lot of people. .
If Enda wanted Deasy out of the picture he should have appointed Coffey to a Junior Ministry. The fact that he didn’t just shows how tenuous his grip is on the leadership. There is already a Dublin Faction in the Party that pushed against him. This makes it impossible for Enda to appoint Coffey ahead of a bust of people recently relegated to the backbenches. Another fact you conveniently ignore.Crazy talk, really is. People are trying to move away from local politics in the Dail. Resigning the whip in protest has made **** all of a difference to-date and you think advising any of our TDs to do the same is a good idea?! It puts us further on the back benches and reduces our chances of a Ministerial Position. John Deasy is the perfect example of the Waterford rebel. Voted in each time, topping the poll. Sits in the back complaining. Went out and bashed Kenny. Where is he since the election? Still on the back benches. He was someone who should be given a Ministerial position, being in Politics a long time and his father before him. I think we would all agree he probably would be, but clearly is way down on the pecking order. Its odd that you don't seem to even comment on this. .
Earth to Sully! Phil Hogan and Brendan Howlin have pulled disgraceful parochial strokes within six months of being in power confirming the fears of many people in Waterford. The Kilkenny People announced Hogans appointment like it was the second coming of Jesus. So the only crazy talk here is the party political fantasy by FG supporters that they are radically different than FF. All Paudie has succeded in doing is followed the party whip which is the usual Irish parochialism. He should have at least made a media statement threatening to resign the whip if this behaviour continued after the VEC fiasco and supported Deasy’s assertion in principle. Instead we got nothing only party loyalty! A safe seat for FG in Waterford.When Penrose quit over the barracks issue, a lot of people didn't support his move because he quit over local politics. What has he achieved since quitting in his constituency? Nothing. The barracks is still closed and the government went on as normal. When FGs Denis Naughten lost the whip over the Roscommon Hospital closure, there was no U Turn or "Here, come back and we will sort ya out with a Ministerial position and open the Hospital again". The government carried on as normal. Likewise, when Broughan quit nothing changed (yet anyway). Why do you think Paudie quitting would make the blindest bit of a difference? .
Because the difference is we are a large urban centre and can put a sustained argument of good planning etc which Roscommon and Mullingar cannot. Coffey could have brought national media attention to the parochial antics of Big Phil and Howlin on the basis of the moral bankruptcy of closing one hospital OR army Barracks while protecting another purely by virtue of cabinet representation. Coffey would have shown real leadership (like Broughan) and made a statement that he was not to be taken for granted. It would have been a better strategy from his point of view even. Like John McGuinness in FF.As you said, you cant wait till 2030. Who says that in the next 20 years we will get a strong Independent up there with the current political climate, hence not needing Coffey? The next election isn't for a few years yet and by the looks of things the climate wont change much.
Said like a true FG’r. There could be an election in the New Year for all know. The government still has not passed a budget or made any cuts they can’t blame on FF. They’ve made no hard decisions and already three TD’s have jumped ship. Even at this rate with no cuts the government would not last five years. So your prediction is based on pure wishful thinking on your part. A long time is a week in politics five years is an eternity. We have more than enough time to select or find someone who knows how to play the political game against gombeen rednecks currently populating FG. Yep a vote for Paudie is a vote for the political wilderness!0 -
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So, it's OK for Cullen to pull stokes because it's for Waterford but when Hogan, Howlin et al do it, it's parish pump politics.
It's this type of thinking that has got this country in the ****, I can't stand what H & H are doing but the crying and moaning going on because it's not Waterford is pitiful.
Somebody earlier said he's pro Waterford, that's incorrect, he's pro Waterford city, he's gone on numerous times about Dungarvan and Waterford County Council being the enemy as much as Kilkenny and Wexford. What happens when Waterford City gets some investment, he'll complain that it's not Ballybeg, Barrack street, etc (insert where he lives).0 -
So, it's OK for Cullen to pull stokes because it's for Waterford but when Hogan, Howlin et al do it, it's parish pump politics.
It's this type of thinking that has got this country in the ****, I can't stand what H & H are doing but the crying and moaning going on because it's not Waterford is pitiful.
Somebody earlier said he's pro Waterford, that's incorrect, he's pro Waterford city, he's gone on numerous times about Dungarvan and Waterford County Council being the enemy as much as Kilkenny and Wexford. What happens when Waterford City gets some investment, he'll complain that it's not Ballybeg, Barrack street, etc (insert where he lives).
Nobody is saying this at all.As far back as 1970 Independent analysis has determined that the best way to develop the country economically,socially and environmentally has been to concentrate investment around the five largest urban centres which includes Waterford.Howlin has made public rants opposing this and for the second time has attempted to asset strip the city for the benefit of his own constituency. Hogan similarly has made statements against the IDA for showing favouritism to Waterford.I mean Jesus wept.If this wasn't bad enough Deasy has done the same. It's this type of peasent thinking that has the country in the sh1t not the insistence that some form of proper spatial planning be adhered to.Name one Waterford politician that has acted the same way.God forbid we start acting like a first world country. This has been identified by historians and planners as the problem and the wishful thinking H&H will not change this.Fine Gael had a once in a lifetime opportunity to acheive this instead its business as usual by making sure the other crowd doesn't "get everything".This is the infuriating thing as we actually have best practice on our side and our politicians are to weak to use this fact.0 -
fuzzy dunlop wrote: »Nobody is saying this at all.As far back as 1970 Independent analysis has determined that the best way to develop the country economically,socially and environmentally has been to concentrate investment around the five largest urban centres which includes Waterford.Howlin has made public rants opposing this and for the second time has attempted to asset strip the city for the benefit of his own constituency. Hogan similarly has made statements against the IDA for showing favouritism to Waterford.I mean Jesus wept.If this wasn't bad enough Deasy has done the same. It's this type of peasent thinking that has the country in the sh1t not the insistence that some form of proper spatial planning be adhered to.Name one Waterford politician that has acted the same way.God forbid we start acting like a first .............
I don't recall any rants, nor Examples of him asset stripping - if jobs are kept in the South East , that helps everyone, in the South East.
You don't hear Dublin people give out if Drogheda gets a new A+e.0 -
I don't recall any rants, nor Examples of him asset stripping - if jobs are kept in the South East , that helps everyone, in the South East.
You don't hear Dublin people give out if Drogheda gets a new A+e.
I think you'd hear about it if everything was moved from Drogheda to Dublin though.. which is closer to the point here.0 -
Yeah but they had better be careful about the combined End of the World/Last Judgment/Euro-crash.fuzzy dunlop wrote: »The Kilkenny People announced Hogans appointment like it was the second coming of Jesus.
And as for Howlin and his abject cronyism, Labour is going to find things very tough in Waterford for the next generation or so. But then, FF is going to beat them in the GE next year. (Whoops - wasn't meant to say that.
)
Regards...jmcc0 -
I don't recall any rants, nor Examples of him asset stripping - if jobs are kept in the South East , that helps everyone, in the South East.
You don't hear Dublin people give out if Drogheda gets a new A+e.
Last time fg and lab were in govt, howlin moved the ambulance centre from WRH to Wexford general. If that is not asset stripping I dont know what is
A fg minister moved director of the IDA S.E to Cork to stop "all the jobs going to Waterford" and create a level playing field for all the counties in the S.E some level playing field that turned out to be.
FG,Lab are Gombeen political parties made up of Gombeen politicians.0 -
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Moderators, Education Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 24,056 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Join Date:Posts: 21860
fuzzy dunlop wrote: »You claimed previously that you had assurances that Paudie had a good chance of a ministerial position. This has transpired to be Bullsh!t. What your claiming is pure fantasy. We the electorate do not have to adhere to the FG practice of serving your time on the backbenches. There is just too many people ahead of Paudie in the queue in FG alone. It is impossibility when Labour is included. This is a fact that an apolitical person cannot escape from.
Well, from looking over a bunch of my posts from the election threads I cant find any post that said I was assured anything of the sort. Forgive me if I did, but I can see many posts talking about that issue and I gave no such assurances in them. An apolitical person wont make the blindest bit of a difference and one would be foolish to think that what happened in the last government would happen again so soon, and such a TD would come from the Waterford direction.I like the way you refer to Ciara Conway as if Paudie was some sort of giant compared to her. He isn’t. In fact she is more successful at making herself known nationally than Paudie has been. Paudie is an unknown outside Waterford never mind the South East. The government will not retain the majority they have by the next election with four Austerity budgets to make. This election result is a historical once off. We will be back to depending on Independents to form a government within five years at the most.
Myself like others, look at experience as one factor in an election. I remember many posters going "Ciara who?". I'm not suggesting for one second she is wasted in Politics. I just feel, personally, that picking a Minister one factor is how long they are around. Clearly, as we have seen, there is much more than that. Ciara has seen herself being hotly criticised on here on a regular basis by other posters, sometimes turning into a "Who can throw the biggest insult" match. I wouldn't have felt that neither Paudie of herself has made a big name for themselves since the election. Halligan probably pulled that stroke.If Enda wanted Deasy out of the picture he should have appointed Coffey to a Junior Ministry. The fact that he didn’t just shows how tenuous his grip is on the leadership. There is already a Dublin Faction in the Party that pushed against him. This makes it impossible for Enda to appoint Coffey ahead of a bust of people recently relegated to the backbenches. Another fact you conveniently ignore.
Indeed there is a fraction, just like in Waterford. Many of those who pushed against Kenny were not so lucky getting a high flying position, dumped to the back, junior positions etc. Obviously there are many others around the Dail chambers higher in the pecking order for Ministerial positions than our two boys down here in Waterford. I wouldn't think that appointing Coffey immediately would put John out of the picture either. There was a belief that he might just get a decent position, but it hasn't came and if it did, it would be a surprise not just in Waterford but on a national scale.Earth to Sully! Phil Hogan and Brendan Howlin have pulled disgraceful parochial strokes within six months of being in power confirming the fears of many people in Waterford. The Kilkenny People announced Hogans appointment like it was the second coming of Jesus. So the only crazy talk here is the party political fantasy by FG supporters that they are radically different than FF. All Paudie has succeded in doing is followed the party whip which is the usual Irish parochialism. He should have at least made a media statement threatening to resign the whip if this behaviour continued after the VEC fiasco and supported Deasy’s assertion in principle. Instead we got nothing only party loyalty! A safe seat for FG in Waterford.
Indeed, and if you were in Kilkenny you wouldn't be complaining. Parish pump politics is what the country is trying to move away from, but folk here in Waterford like yourself and other constituencies are looking for it / creaming it in. But regardless, threatening to resign wouldn't help and make a difference. I personally feel that it would hinder more than help.Because the difference is we are a large urban centre and can put a sustained argument of good planning etc which Roscommon and Mullingar cannot. Coffey could have brought national media attention to the parochial antics of Big Phil and Howlin on the basis of the moral bankruptcy of closing one hospital OR army Barracks while protecting another purely by virtue of cabinet representation. Coffey would have shown real leadership (like Broughan) and made a statement that he was not to be taken for granted. It would have been a better strategy from his point of view even. Like John McGuinness in FF.
Ah so there resignations were pointless so, making no difference but you think because of our urban centre things are so much different? I doubt it. Coffey resigning the whip would not have made Kenny or the leadership turn around and put him on the pedestal you seem to think would happen. Isn't John Deasy proof of all this? Surely he is right up your ally - Waterfords rebel TD. Quick to knock the government, quick to knock his party, quick to call what he feels are shenanigans. Perhaps not rebellious enough to resign the whip tho, but still. What impact has he had on the government to make a difference to our benefit? Isn't he on the backbenches?Said like a true FG’r. There could be an election in the New Year for all know. The government still has not passed a budget or made any cuts they can’t blame on FF. They’ve made no hard decisions and already three TD’s have jumped ship. Even at this rate with no cuts the government would not last five years. So your prediction is based on pure wishful thinking on your part. A long time is a week in politics five years is an eternity. We have more than enough time to select or find someone who knows how to play the political game against gombeen rednecks currently populating FG. Yep a vote for Paudie is a vote for the political wilderness!
Forgive me for looking at facts, rather than pure speculation on what may happen. There could be an election in the morning or in a years time. What person is lingering in the background waiting to jump up as an Independent - shout, roar, kick up a fuss? Halligan? We have no politician or independent person in Waterford that could make a shout as an Independent, and in the current situation it wont make a difference. We would need a very tight government which needs to be made up of Independents where such a person could be considered a benefit to Waterford. Its a massive risk and gamble - there is no guarantee, even if we had such a person, that it would work out so swimmingly as your dreams suggest. At the current political rate, they wont need anyone in Waterford as there will be plenty of strong minded Independents in the Dail, as Independents are the hot curry at the moment.
I simply cant see that majority slipping big time to warrant a situation where they need Independent backing. It was well known there would be slips along the way, as is to be expected with a big majority. If things were tighter, majority wise, things would be completely different as to how the TDs behave. The government isn't worried if they loose a few TDs, some of which will vote with the party anyway.0 -
Last time fg and lab were in govt, howlin moved the ambulance centre from WRH to Wexford general. If that is not asset stripping I dont know what is
FG,Lab are Gombeen political parties made up of Gombeen politicians.
So 18 years ago the ambulance centre was moved from Waterford to Wexford?
I cannot find a link to this calamitous event, but last time I looked there was still an ambulance centre at WRH.
Could you provide a link to this grevious act of gombeen asset stripping?0 -
So 18 years ago the ambulance centre was moved from Waterford to Wexford?
I cannot find a link to this calamitous event, but last time I looked there was still an ambulance centre at WRH.
Could you provide a link to this grevious act of gombeen asset stripping?
18 odd years ago was during the lifetime of the last fg/lab govt. The minute the get back in they try the same trick again - VEC
You ring for an ambulance, and you are put through to the call centre in Wexford which heretofore was in the largest hospital in the S.E namely WRH where it should have remained. The ambulance is then dispatched from the nearest base
Waterford seems to be the only city that actually got departments decentralised away from it instead of into it! Go figure0 -
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Apart from that whole decentralisation project where hundreds of jobs were moved out of the city and into smaller towns.18 odd years ago was during the lifetime of the last fg/lab govt. The minute the get back in they try the same trick again - VEC
You ring for an ambulance, and you are put through to the call centre in Wexford which heretofore was in the largest hospital in the S.E namely WRH where it should have remained. The ambulance is then dispatched from the nearest base
Waterford seems to be the only city that actually got departments decentralised away from it instead of into it! Go figure
But you are right we should never forget how those dastardly pikemen and their ranting gombeen politicians stole thousands of jobs of people employed at the ambulance call centre.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=brj2UkUPjCI0 -
18 odd years ago was during the lifetime of the last fg/lab govt. The minute the get back in they try the same trick again - VEC
You ring for an ambulance, and you are put through to the call centre in Wexford which heretofore was in the largest hospital in the S.E namely WRH where it should have remained. The ambulance is then dispatched from the nearest base
Waterford seems to be the only city that actually got departments decentralised away from it instead of into it! Go figure
who provided the finance for WRH??? Fine Gael and Labour
which Waterford politician was at the cabinet table when this happened? Austin Deasy
Did the decision to upgrade WRH lead to that part of the city growing and expanding? YES
On account of that decision, is WRH the largest employer in the region? YES0 -
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An apolitical person wont make the blindest bit of a difference and one would be foolish to think that what happened in the last government would happen again so soon, and such a TD would come from the Waterford direction.
It was the apolitical that voted for Cullen for the last decade and jumped ship to FG and specifically Coffey when Cullen was gone. It is only swing voters that jump this sort of political divide, which was done in the eighties. So the fact is we have already repeated one part of history politically. There is no reason we cannot do it for the 97- 2007 period as far as cabinet representation is concerned. You have a vested interest in poo pooing the idea. But this is essentially the strategy Dublin SE follows which has had cabinet representation continuously since the foundation of the state practically.Myself like others, look at experience as one factor in an election. I remember many posters going "Ciara who?". I'm not suggesting for one second she is wasted in Politics. I just feel, personally, that picking a Minister one factor is how long they are around. Clearly, as we have seen, there is much more than that. Ciara has seen herself being hotly criticised on here on a regular basis by other posters, sometimes turning into a "Who can throw the biggest insult" match. I wouldn't have felt that neither Paudie of herself has made a big name for themselves since the election. Halligan probably pulled that stroke.
Indeed there is a fraction, just like in Waterford. Many of those who pushed against Kenny were not so lucky getting a high flying position, dumped to the back, junior positions etc. Obviously there are many others around the Dail chambers higher in the pecking order for Ministerial positions than our two boys down here in Waterford. I wouldn't think that appointing Coffey immediately would put John out of the picture either. There was a belief that he might just get a decent position, but it hasn't came and if it did, it would be a surprise not just in Waterford but on a national scale. .
Well you need to check your posts again regarding the General election. You previously stated that most people within FG would have assumed Waterford would have received a cabinet position of some sort. Now this has turned into “would have been surprising”. This is the problem with being part of a political machine Sully. Back peddling like this highlights your lack of credibility. Now you can say you didn’t exactly say this that or the other all you want by the fact is you were flying this flag on this board on behalf of FG. If you can’t find it check my posts and you will find it in your replies to mine. As for experience Paudie has none that a city councillor hasn’t got. Don’t think about saying the Senate as these appointments are only about tricking the electorate into thinking that these guys are going somewhere.Indeed, and if you were in Kilkenny you wouldn't be complaining. Parish pump politics is what the country is trying to move away from, but folk here in Waterford like yourself and other constituencies are looking for it / creaming it in. But regardless, threatening to resign wouldn't help and make a difference. I personally feel that it would hinder more than help. .
So tell me again how this government is moving away from Parish pump politics? Barely six months old and this government has confirmed our worst fears and you’re making excuses for Phil Hogan! If all things been equal and my assertions are simply parochial rants then this does not change the situation. It still means Coffey and the political machine you are party to have a moral obligation to its constituents, which it is currently failing to uphold. It is also failing to resist the ongoing stroke politics in the neighbouring counties. But the fact is my assertions have the backing of two independent spatial plans, the writings of economists, historians and planners going back forty years or more. This is the elephant in the room for you. One you or your party cannot ignore.Ah so there resignations were pointless so, making no difference but you think because of our urban centre things are so much different? I doubt it. Coffey resigning the whip would not have made Kenny or the leadership turn around and put him on the pedestal you seem to think would happen. Isn't John Deasy proof of all this? Surely he is right up your ally - Waterfords rebel TD. Quick to knock the government, quick to knock his party, quick to call what he feels are shenanigans. Perhaps not rebellious enough to resign the whip tho, but still. What impact has he had on the government to make a difference to our benefit? Isn't he on the backbenches? .
Deasy has made quite an impact. He has embarrassed FG more than once. The only reason he hasn’t done more damage is because he did most of it when FG were in opposition. Deasy also never resigned the whip so it is not proof that this strategy would not work. Also Coffey doesn’t have to resign the whip. A public statement condemning the practices of Howlin and Hogan followed by statement of intent if it continued. Nevertheless the government majority is large but not so large they can afford the rate of ongoing attrition especially when it looks like the voters are starting to see Labour as the FG mudguard. If Labour get jittery they might see their prospects being better as leader of the opposition. This would mean FG needing a bust of Independents or a General Election.Forgive me for looking at facts, rather than pure speculation on what may happen. There could be an election in the morning or in a years time. What person is lingering in the background waiting to jump up as an Independent - shout, roar, kick up a fuss? Halligan? We have no politician or independent person in Waterford that could make a shout as an Independent, and in the current situation it wont make a difference. We would need a very tight government which needs to be made up of Independents where such a person could be considered a benefit to Waterford. Its a massive risk and gamble - there is no guarantee, even if we had such a person, that it would work out so swimmingly as your dreams suggest. At the current political rate, they wont need anyone in Waterford as there will be plenty of strong minded Independents in the Dail, as Independents are the hot curry at the moment.
I simply cant see that majority slipping big time to warrant a situation where they need Independent backing. It was well known there would be slips along the way, as is to be expected with a big majority. If things were tighter, majority wise, things would be completely different as to how the TDs behave. The government isn't worried if they loose a few TDs, some of which will vote with the party anyway.
You’re not looking at facts. You’re looking at the present situation and speculating it will be like this long term. If there was an election tomorrow it is almost guaranteed that the government would have a tiny majority or would need independents. This situation is only going to get worse. Both parties only have to lose six seats each to lose their majority. What you’re suggesting is Paudie be a good boy on the off chance that he be rewarded for not rocking the boat. You need an unprecedented level of stability for this to work. We don’t have this. If FG or any other party want to achieve/retain power they have to behave impeccably themselves and not lose seats. An impossible task which their already failing to do. There is no way a majority will be formed without Independents. Plus the fact that they have not even passed one Austerity budget never mind four means political flux is the name of the game for the next 10 years. By the time Paudie ever gets near a junior ministry FG will be on the other side of the house maybe for another generation. Any future government will have to shore up dissent within their own parties or else hoover up some Independents. If we keep voting for Coffey and Conway even after the failed to protect their constituents then we are just another three safe seats for the government. If we don’t then the realisation will be that this seats have to be maintained starting by telling Hogan and Howlin to cop the f*ck on and stop behaving like FF. Coffey and Conway have to take advantage of this fact which they so far have failed to do.0 -
Smiley Burnett wrote: »who provided the finance for WRH??? Fine Gael and Labour
which Waterford politician was at the cabinet table when this happened? Austin Deasy
Did the decision to upgrade WRH lead to that part of the city growing and expanding? YES
On account of that decision, is WRH the largest employer in the region? YES
FFS are FG still trying to dine out on something that happened thirty years ago. How many hosptitals in Waterford did they close to do it?Plus the fact that there was a hospital aready on the site.It was a consolidation of existing services so stop trying to make out FG provided soome great boon to the city. Let's not forget it was Deasy's old man that threatened resignation to locate the regional service here.The FG/Labour government was going to locate it in Kilkenny. Sound Familiar?0 -
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Well, from looking over a bunch of my posts from the election threads I cant find any post that said I was assured anything of the sort. Forgive me if I did, but I can see many posts talking about that issue and I gave no such assurances in them. An apolitical person wont make the blindest bit of a difference and one would be foolish to think that what happened in the last government would happen again so soon, and such a TD would come from the Waterford direction.
Myself like others, look at experience as one factor in an election. I remember many posters going "Ciara who?". I'm not suggesting for one second she is wasted in Politics. I just feel, personally, that picking a Minister one factor is how long they are around. Clearly, as we have seen, there is much more than that. Ciara has seen herself being hotly criticised on here on a regular basis by other posters, sometimes turning into a "Who can throw the biggest insult" match. I wouldn't have felt that neither Paudie of herself has made a big name for themselves since the election. Halligan probably pulled that stroke.
Indeed there is a fraction, just like in Waterford. Many of those who pushed against Kenny were not so lucky getting a high flying position, dumped to the back, junior positions etc. Obviously there are many others around the Dail chambers higher in the pecking order for Ministerial positions than our two boys down here in Waterford. I wouldn't think that appointing Coffey immediately would put John out of the picture either. There was a belief that he might just get a decent position, but it hasn't came and if it did, it would be a surprise not just in Waterford but on a national scale.
Indeed, and if you were in Kilkenny you wouldn't be complaining. Parish pump politics is what the country is trying to move away from, but folk here in Waterford like yourself and other constituencies are looking for it / creaming it in. But regardless, threatening to resign wouldn't help and make a difference. I personally feel that it would hinder more than help.
Ah so there resignations were pointless so, making no difference but you think because of our urban centre things are so much different? I doubt it. Coffey resigning the whip would not have made Kenny or the leadership turn around and put him on the pedestal you seem to think would happen. Isn't John Deasy proof of all this? Surely he is right up your ally - Waterfords rebel TD. Quick to knock the government, quick to knock his party, quick to call what he feels are shenanigans. Perhaps not rebellious enough to resign the whip tho, but still. What impact has he had on the government to make a difference to our benefit? Isn't he on the backbenches?
Forgive me for looking at facts, rather than pure speculation on what may happen. There could be an election in the morning or in a years time. What person is lingering in the background waiting to jump up as an Independent - shout, roar, kick up a fuss? Halligan? We have no politician or independent person in Waterford that could make a shout as an Independent, and in the current situation it wont make a difference. We would need a very tight government which needs to be made up of Independents where such a person could be considered a benefit to Waterford. Its a massive risk and gamble - there is no guarantee, even if we had such a person, that it would work out so swimmingly as your dreams suggest. At the current political rate, they wont need anyone in Waterford as there will be plenty of strong minded Independents in the Dail, as Independents are the hot curry at the moment.
I simply cant see that majority slipping big time to warrant a situation where they need Independent backing. It was well known there would be slips along the way, as is to be expected with a big majority. If things were tighter, majority wise, things would be completely different as to how the TDs behave. The government isn't worried if they loose a few TDs, some of which will vote with the party anyway.
Ha ha. LOL. A real FGer - putting party 1st, country 2nd. Keep digging. OMG its hard to believe that intelligent people keep falling for this crap.0
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